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More 'religion of peace' news

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, April 5, 2021 15:55
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Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:


Co-Worker Calls Alleged Shooter: "Very Spiritual"
By KAREN ARAIZA

Updated 8:52 PM EDT, Fri, Sep 10, 2010

"She's not a loose cannon. She's a hard worker, works very hard. She's very spiritual."

Kenneth Dorsey says the woman accused of killing two co-workers and critically injuring a third at the Kraft plant in Northeast Philly is a good person. And so were the two women she's accused of gunning down with a .357 Magnum, just minutes after she'd been suspended and escorted from the building.

Dorsey's been at the plant for 37 years and worked on the third floor with the three victims and the alleged shooter, Yvonne Hiller....

"We talked about her Muslim faith and I wished her happy Ramadan," Dorsey said. "I might be wrong, but my guess is she had some people that she had issues with and a personal agenda, a score she had to settle."




And so, this VERY SPIRITUAL person, turned to violence to solve her personal issues. How so unlike a Muslim.

Yes, Niki, let's hear it. Her religious views had nothing to do w/ her actions, what so ever....right. Keep telling yourself that.







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Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


"Scott Roeder, Convicted Murderer, Cites Pat Robertson As Influence In Court"

http://www.mediaite.com/print/scott-roeder-convicted-murderer-cites-pa
t-robertson-as-influence-in-court
/


Go ahead, Rappy - tell us all how religion played no part in his decision to murder a man in church. How unlike a Christian. Keep telling yourself that only Muslims kill for their god.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:37 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Scott Roeder, Convicted Murderer, Cites Pat Robertson As Influence In Court"

http://www.mediaite.com/print/scott-roeder-convicted-murderer-cites-pa
t-robertson-as-influence-in-court
/


Go ahead, Rappy - tell us all how religion played no part in his decision to murder a man in church. How unlike a Christian. Keep telling yourself that only Muslims kill for their god.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


And Al Gore influecned Mr Lee who ran into the "Discovery Channel" headqaurters and took hostages, I'm still waitting for a member of the "Tea Party" to run into MSNBC's headqaurters and take Keith Olbermann hostage. I would laugh at his hostage tape, I would record it and add a laugh track.


Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

A former Army soldier seeking help for mental problems at a Georgia military hospital took three workers hostage at gunpoint Monday before authorities persuaded him to surrender.
I wonder who inspired HIM?

Ridiculous premise that 'spiritual' person doing bad things should be blamed on a religion.

Try this from a devoutly "spiritual" Christian:
Quote:

Spiritual warfare is merely the Christian’s continuing resistance to the world, flesh, and devil, on such a regular basis--and with such deadly accuracy--that those held hostage to any one of the ‘unholy religions' can be freed and pointed to Christ.

Once a Christian believes and acts on the Word of God, enemies are going to appear and be spoiling for a fight!

Ridiculous premise to say someone who is "spiritual" represents their religion; being "spiritual" doesn't mean you're not nuts or an extremist!



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:33 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

A former Army soldier seeking help for mental problems at a Georgia military hospital took three workers hostage at gunpoint Monday before authorities persuaded him to surrender.
I wonder who inspired HIM?

Ridiculous premise that 'spiritual' person doing bad things should be blamed on a religion.

Try this from a devoutly "spiritual" Christian:
Quote:

Spiritual warfare is merely the Christian’s continuing resistance to the world, flesh, and devil, on such a regular basis--and with such deadly accuracy--that those held hostage to any one of the ‘unholy religions' can be freed and pointed to Christ.

Once a Christian believes and acts on the Word of God, enemies are going to appear and be spoiling for a fight!

Ridiculous premise to say someone who is "spiritual" represents their religion; being "spiritual" doesn't mean you're not nuts or an extremist!



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




So um....their next step is to fly airplanes into buildings, treat woman like 2nd class people, kill gays, censor Hollywood? Do ya think Christians will cheer when they do this? When the these people you defend take power do you think they'll let you live?



Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, Whozit, TRY to use your brains! Your response has nothing whatsoever to do with what i posted. What does asking if Christians will cheer have to do with ANYTHING?! Where did you ever get the idea "these people" will "take over"??? Sounds like you're as paranoid as the McCarthyites who said Communism would "take over! You no doubt have visions of an army of "Muslims" marching on America, or blowing up the whole country...which is truly pathetic.

These are individual groups of terrorists; their power is limited to individual acts of terrorism; it's happening all over the world but it has yet to defeat any nation or government, nor will it.

I repeat, since you deliberately choose to make inflated statements and accuse me of that which I have never done: I do not "defend" ANY terrorist of any kind. I recognize that ANY religion can be used as an incitement to hate and violence. That you are unable to get that point is a reflection upon YOU, not me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, September 11, 2010 8:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

So um....their next step is to fly airplanes into buildings, treat woman like 2nd class people, kill gays, censor Hollywood? Do ya think Christians will cheer when they do this? When the these people you defend take power do you think they'll let you live?


You're speaking of CHRISTIANS here, right?

Fly airplanes into buildings? Check. (Also, blow them up with truck bombs)
Treat women like second-class citizens? Check.
Kill gays? Yup.
Censor Hollywood? Absolutely.
Will Christians cheer when Christians do these things? They will, and have.
Do I think they'd let me live? The Christians, you mean? Not a chance. They'd drown me in a second. I think they refer to it as "baptism" - the idea that if you hold someone's head under water long enough, they'll eventually come around to your way of thinking. Maybe it's just "Holy Waterboarding"...

But no, your kind would never let me live if you had the power. You, Rappy, Kaney... I don't believe like you do. And for your ilk, that's enough to get the death sentence.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, September 11, 2010 2:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I just knew you pussies would resort to quid pro quo non-equivalent b.s.

Thanks for proving me right.


Biggest pussy Michael Moore and freedom hating sack of fat agrees w/ you.




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Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:04 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

So um....their next step is to fly airplanes into buildings, treat woman like 2nd class people, kill gays, censor Hollywood? Do ya think Christians will cheer when they do this? When the these people you defend take power do you think they'll let you live?


You're speaking of CHRISTIANS here, right?

Fly airplanes into buildings? Check. (Also, blow them up with truck bombs)
Treat women like second-class citizens? Check.
Kill gays? Yup.
Censor Hollywood? Absolutely.
Will Christians cheer when Christians do these things? They will, and have.
Do I think they'd let me live? The Christians, you mean? Not a chance. They'd drown me in a second. I think they refer to it as "baptism" - the idea that if you hold someone's head under water long enough, they'll eventually come around to your way of thinking. Maybe it's just "Holy Waterboarding"...

But no, your kind would never let me live if you had the power. You, Rappy, Kaney... I don't believe like you do. And for your ilk, that's enough to get the death sentence.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


I give up, I am your bitch. Throw rocks at me untill I'm dead, I only hope that the last thing I see B4 I die, is a 401 nailhead with chrome valve covers and duel quads, then I'll die happy......give me that.



Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Fly airplanes into buildings? Check. (Also, blow them up with truck bombs)

Nope 1 random act does not = '93 WTC, E.Africa, Kobar Towers, 9/11.....
Quote:


Treat women like second-class citizens? Check.

Women have the right to vote, property, hold office...no. No where near " check " .
Quote:


Kill gays? Yup.


No state sponsered murder of homosexuals, ask but don't tell ruled un-constitutional, Courts ruling on gay marriage.... no even close to 'yep'.

Quote:


Censor Hollywood? Absolutely.



Absolutely not, in any way/shape or form. Broke Back Mt? Death of a President ? 9/11 Fahrenheit ? Wow.... so far from 'absolutely', it's scary.

Quote:


Will Christians cheer when Christians do these things? They will, and have.

Never have nor ever will.

Quote:


Do I think they'd let me live? The Christians, you mean? Not a chance. They'd drown me in a second. I think they refer to it as "baptism" - the idea that if you hold someone's head under water long enough, they'll eventually come around to your way of thinking. Maybe it's just "Holy Waterboarding"...

Possibly the most nonsensical of all statements.

Quote:



But no, your kind would never let me live if you had the power. You, Rappy, Kaney... I don't believe like you do. And for your ilk, that's enough to get the death sentence.




That you're still alive is proof positive that you're so very, very wrong.




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Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I just knew you pussies would resort to quid pro quo non-equivalent b.s.

Thanks for proving me right.


Biggest pussy Michael Moore and freedom hating sack of fat agrees w/ you.




And I just knew that the second anyone disagreed with you, you'd resort to your usual childish name-calling. Thanks for proving me right.

And since we're all such pussies, and you're such an obvious tough guy who loves freedom and fights for it at every turn, tell us all - where and when did you serve your country?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Throw rocks at me untill I'm dead...


No thanks. That's more Rappy's forté, the biblical stoning kind of crap. Unlike the righties, I don't feel the need to kill those with whom I disagree; I'd rather enlighten them.

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I just knew you pussies would resort to quid pro quo non-equivalent b.s.

Thanks for proving me right.


Biggest pussy Michael Moore and freedom hating sack of fat agrees w/ you.




And I just knew that the second anyone disagreed with you, you'd resort to your usual childish name-calling. Thanks for proving me right.

And since we're all such pussies, and you're such an obvious tough guy who loves freedom and fights for it at every turn, tell us all - where and when did you serve your country?




Nothing you said, in any way, discredits or denies my post.




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Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Throw rocks at me untill I'm dead...


No thanks. That's more Rappy's forté, the biblical stoning kind of crap. Unlike the righties, I don't feel the need to kill those with whom I disagree; I'd rather enlighten them.



Being an atheist, it's hi-larious to see your idiotic comments.

What Christian nation has resorted to state sponsored stoning in the past 300 years ? 500 years? 1000 years? Anyone ?

You keep up w/ the 'enlightening' tact. See how well that works for you in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and S.Arabia, for snorts and giggles.




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Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:08 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
What Christian nation has resorted to state sponsored stoning in the past 300 years ? 500 years? 1000 years? Anyone ?



Well, he's got a point.

Christians prefer live burning, preferably tied to a stake.

Or hanging. Or crushing (eww--apparently, one of the convicts of the Salem witch trials was crushed to death by heavy stones). Or electrocuting. Or gassing. Or poisoning.

Or waterboarding. Or other techniques of "aggressive interrogation."

Christians are so much more creative with murder than Muslims.

Oh...oh...oh!! Don't forget this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:48 PM

AGENTROUKA


Dude.

No one is denying that there are horrid things happening in the name of Islam in the form of religious extremism.

But your theory that Islam itself is to blame, as opposed to various political motivations or a general cultural prevalance of theocracy is again and again disproven by - indeed - examples of people of other faiths acting in the same way in the past and of the plentiful non-violent, non-extremist muslims all over the world.

"Islam = violent extremism" is simply not true. At least not any more than "Any religion = violent extremism". Because we have seen what they all are capable of with the right cultural/political motivators.

Yet you ignore that.

Again and again.

Instead of trying to have a fruitful discussion about those motivators, you return over and over to the least useful, most simplicistic, most childishly afraid distorted interpretation possible.

Why???

It's like you're trying to dismantle any trace of complexity (in our world? In human societies?? Complexity? No way!) in order to be able to paint one bright bulls-eye target.

Sure you must be bright enough to understand that by discounting a true understanding of complex problems, you are also ignoring any path to a true solution?


So please, please, please, quit these "A muslim has done something bad. This proves all of Islam is evil" threads.


Also: Do you personally know any muslims? If the answer is yes, is your relationship with them hostile? Are they violent and evil? If you do not, how about getting to know some in order to gain some insight? None of the muslims I have met in my life (moderate, female muslima in university, mostly, but also mothers at playgrounds, store owners, people I meet through my job) have ever expressed ill intent toward me and instead were polite, friendly, some wickedly funny.

I'm going to take those experiences as equally respresentative about Islam, if not more so.

Or rather, it's got little to do with religion. There are decent people who happen to be religious and there are extremist terrorists who happen to be religious. Which religion each of them claim... pffft, barely relevant.


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Saturday, September 11, 2010 8:43 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


My theory is that the Qur'an is easier to corrupt than other religious texts. That and the widespread poverty and isolation from education leads to desperate people looking at comfortable people and coming to the conclusion that "We are God's people; they're not. They have things we do not. Therefore THEM=EVIL."

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 9:37 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Waterboarding... witch hunts... When did the the CIA become the Christian Intelligence Agency? Also, when did the USA become a christian theocracy? This whole 'look at how bad these people are, I'll bet they did it cause they are christians' argument is even more childish and stupid than the original argument. At least the original foolish supposition that Muslims want all this violence was actually the topic of the gorram thread!

I've got a radical idea. How about someone defend Islam with examples of peaceful Muslims or peaceful Islamic practices? Do yall enjoy petty finger pointing or is your argument against Muslims being radical nutjobs really that weak?

Please prove me wrong and defend Islam with Islam, not by shaking your finger and pointing to something bad someone else did.

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 9:55 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Not a bad idea there. I know of an example of a peaceful Muslim as one of my best friends is a Muslim and is one of the most peaceful people I know.

And as for defending Islam with Islam, here's some stuff from the Qur'an:
Quote:

Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. - Sura 109: 1-6
You may fight in the cause of Allah against those who attack you, but do not aggress. Allah does not love the aggressors. - 2:190
You shall be charitable; Allah loves the charitable. - [2:195]


Some reasonable stuff. And I know some people will think and say that there are verses in there that promote violence and there are. But remember, Islam was an off-shoot of Christianity which was an off-shoot of Judaism and there is plenty of fucked-up shit in their holy texts.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 1:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Dude.

No one is denying that there are horrid things happening in the name of Islam in the form of religious extremism.

But your theory that Islam itself is to blame, as opposed to various political motivations or a general cultural prevalance of theocracy is again and again disproven by - indeed - examples of people of other faiths acting in the same way in the past and of the plentiful non-violent, non-extremist muslims all over the world.

"Islam = violent extremism" is simply not true. At least not any more than "Any religion = violent extremism". Because we have seen what they all are capable of with the right cultural/political motivators.

Yet you ignore that.

Again and again.

Instead of trying to have a fruitful discussion about those motivators, you return over and over to the least useful, most simplicistic, most childishly afraid distorted interpretation possible.

Why???



Because he is utterly incapable of looking at religions with anything like objectivity, yet still claims himself to be an "atheist", all the while simply refusing to see the evil done in the name of one religion, and being unable to see anything BUT the evil done by another.


AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:04 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Because he is utterly incapable of looking at religions with anything like objectivity, yet still claims himself to be an "atheist", all the while simply refusing to see the evil done in the name of one religion, and being unable to see anything BUT the evil done by another.




And you're utterly incapable of looking at the violence done in the name of Islam, because it so stands your idiotic view of political correctness on its multiculturalism head. I point out where Gov'ts run by the religion of Islam, there are state sponsored beheadings, stonings, hangings, amputation of limbs, mutiliation of women... and there's NOTHING which comes anywhere close to that which could be viewed as analogous to Christianity.

The only "attempted" comparisons were the CIA, which is a laugh, and events which took place 100's of years ago.






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Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Dude.

Instead of trying to have a fruitful discussion about those motivators, you return over and over to the least useful, most simplicistic, most childishly afraid distorted interpretation possible.

Why???



I'm feel no need to ignore that which everyone sees, but is too afraid to admit. Or it may be that many truly don't see the big picture, and blissfully go on about their days, believing what Katie Couric, Keith Olbermann and the rest of the MSM is telling them.

Quote:



It's like you're trying to dismantle any trace of complexity (in our world? In human societies?? Complexity? No way!) in order to be able to paint one bright bulls-eye target.

Sure you must be bright enough to understand that by discounting a true understanding of complex problems, you are also ignoring any path to a true solution?

So please, please, please, quit these "A muslim has done something bad. This proves all of Islam is evil" threads.



It's not just me, but former Muslims too, who are saying these things. I'll gladly distinguish between radical Islamo-fascists and 'normal' Muslims, if you acknowledge the vast number of brutal acts done in Islam's name, and stop trying to play tit for tat w/ any other religions as a means to diminish what's actually happening.

I'll freely admit that crazy isn't limited to just one religion. Preacher Jones in FL, the Westboro Baptist cult in KS, and damn near every t.v. evangelist are proof enough of that for me. But by a very large margin, those nuts of other religions are far less likely to take a life. One needs to look at the radicals of Islam, all across the globe, to see that fact.

Quote:


Also: Do you personally know any muslims? If the answer is yes, is your relationship with them hostile? Are they violent and evil? If you do not, how about getting to know some in order to gain some insight? None of the muslims I have met in my life (moderate, female muslima in university, mostly, but also mothers at playgrounds, store owners, people I meet through my job) have ever expressed ill intent toward me and instead were polite, friendly, some wickedly funny.

I'm going to take those experiences as equally respresentative about Islam, if not more so.

Or rather, it's got little to do with religion. There are decent people who happen to be religious and there are extremist terrorists who happen to be religious. Which religion each of them claim... pffft, barely relevant.




Anyone who is true to their faith and does not have plans to limit or hinder any of my personal freedoms and rights is o.k. by me. As for knowing any or being friends with any Muslims? Not as of yet. But I have no quota on friends or associates. I feel no desire to reach out to ANYONE simply because they're different. If there are common interests or areas where I happen to share with someone, then I really could care less what color they are, what religion they practice, or any of that superfluous stuff.

As Mal says, we're all just folk, and that's what I truly believe. You do your thing , I'll do mine, and as long as we don't try to get in each others way, it'll all be shiny. You start lobbing off body parts, shooting or blowing up folks , in the name of your god?
Then we've got a problem.


And truth be told, I don't know if this woman's faith had anything to do w/ her killing her co-workers. I just find it curious that she was described as being so spiritual, and then goes off and does something so heinous.

Sure, folks snap, for what ever reason,I get that. But the dichotomy of a 'peaceful', spiritual person going off and killing those who she thinks have wronged her.... instead of praying for them, or asking for strength from god/ allah to deal with life's obstacles... I find curious.

We're constantly told that Islam means 'peace', but it's not that simple. It means to submit, give up, stop struggling, and give yourself to Allah.

I'll pass on that offer, thank you very much.



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Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:06 AM

MAL4PREZ


Rappy: the mistake you seem so willing, even eager, to make is to scapegoat a single religion. Islam isn't the problem, as has been shown in these threads. You have been given examples of peaceful Muslims. There are Islamic countries which are not violent. You continue to ignore this, which is why you continue to draw a false conclusion.

The extremity and violence that you point out is due to particular circumstances in a particular part of the world, and the unfortunate fact that religion is running the govt in these nations. That is the point of folks here bringing up the bloody history of Christianity: ANY religion, when given full governmental power, will go to that bad place. It is not a unique trait of Islam.

By continuing to see only the bad in a large and diverse group, by blaming millions of people for the actions of a few, you continue to be a part of the problem, not the solution. You also, though you may never see it, subscribe to the very mentality that drives the extremists you hate.

What's that saying? Something about: The things that really get under your skin are the things you don't like in yourself.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


And you ignore the vast number of violent acts which DO take place in the name of Allah.

The violence is NOT " due to particular circumstances in a particular part of the world" , as you try to suggest.

It's in the Philippines, Russia, Spain, England, Netherlands, Africa and of course, right in the good ol USA. Omit the Middle East, and you STILL have Islamic zealots committing more violent acts in the name of their god than all other religions combined.

You claim that I'M part of the problem ? You're IGNORING the problem is what's making it worse. Not me acknowledging it.




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Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:44 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And you ignore the vast number of violent acts which DO take place in the name of Allah.

The violence is NOT " due to particular circumstances in a particular part of the world" , as you try to suggest.

It's in the Philippines, Russia, Spain, England, Netherlands, Africa and of course, right in the good ol USA. Omit the Middle East, and you STILL have Islamic zealots committing more violent acts in the name of their god than all other religions combined.

You claim that I'M part of the problem ? You're IGNORING the problem is what's making it worse. Not me acknowledging it.




And you COMPLETELY ignore - and outright DENY - that ANY violent acts are being done in the name of Christianity, anywhere.

You've been shown Uganda, which IS a Christian theocracy, and a damned brutal one at that, and which IS doing horrible things to humans in the name of their stupid god, and which IS being actively funded and pushed along in their religion-driven agenda by the Republican party here at home.

You've been shown, yet you will not see. There's no help for you, because you're truly blind, and too stone-stupid to even realize it.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, September 12, 2010 4:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Uganda ?

That's the extent of your so called Christian theocratic gov't ? One tribal war in Africa ? Hell,
why not just bring in the Hutu/ Tutsi conflict, while you're at it.

Wow. That really makes the case.

Oh,wait... no it doesn't. Not even a little.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Instead of facing the hard , cold reality of Islamic based violence, your knee jerk reaction is to first ignore the facts, followed quickly to search for something, ANYTHING to hold up as a means of saying " yeah? but they do it too! ". It's completely nonsensical bullshit. Even IF there were other religions who did anywhere near as much evil and violence as Islam does, what the hell difference would it make ? It doesn't in any way diminish or detract what terrorists do in the name of Allah !!

I find the Left does this routinely, anytime their sacred cows are threatened. You try to divert attention away from the facts by playing this game of equivocation, and there by getting out of having to deal w/ the initial issue.

You just try to create new issues, out of thin air, which leaves the real big problems forever unresolved.





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Sunday, September 12, 2010 4:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


But you see, I only need post up a single example to refute everything you say. You've been claiming that such things HAVE NOT HAPPENED IN THE LAST 300 YEARS, aren't happening, CAN'T happen. You set yourself up to look like a fucking dumb-ass, and it's just so easy to oblige you and walk you right off that cliff while handing you an anvil.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, September 12, 2010 4:16 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I find the Left does this routinely, anytime their sacred cows are threatened. You try to divert attention away from the facts by playing this game of equivocation, and there by getting out of having to deal w/ the initial issue.



Riiiiiigghhhht... And the righties around here would NEVER do that. Naaahhh - they'll just scream "SOCIALISM!" and run away.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


We never yell a single word, then run away. The Left does that, with nonsensical claims of " racism ".

And your " single " example of so call Christian sponsored violence proves MY point , all the more. It's only one, vs a world wide list of Islamo fascism, and it's more cultural than anything. There's simply no valid comparison w/ you example.




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Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yawn... You bore me. Get some new material.

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:41 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

You claim that I'M part of the problem ? You're IGNORING the problem is what's making it worse. Not me acknowledging it.

Nobody's ignoring the problem - we're disagreeing over the main causes of this modern phenomenon of Islamic terrorism.

I'm quite in the middle on this: I think that Islam as a religion has a serious problem, and that it lends itself to violence and political repression more readily and more aggressively than other religions. Having said that, muslims are human beings just like the rest of us, many of them are good and noble and will seek to emphasise the more peaceful and benevolent parts of their faith (which exist in Islam as all the major religions). And looking through history there have been times when these moderate elements have prevailed, and Islamic culture has been quite progressive, civilised and tolerant (e.g Cordoba). In this respect I agree with the socio-economic explanations for Islam's current violent and radical streak - and I see increased prosperity in Muslim countries as one of the hopes for the situation improving (as well as future withdrawals of troops from Muslim countries, a middle east peace agreement, and diffusion of tensions with sustained peace over time).

Meanwhile your solution Auraptor is...? Stoke up fear, suspicion and intolerance... for what? So that the world will 'come around' to your neocon positions of unequivocal support for Israel and hostility towards muslim nations? As if these policies make the situation better?

You have no solution to the problem, Auraptor, and an unwillingness/inability to appreciate the complexities and therefore fully understand the problem yourself - so yes, you and people like you are in my view part of the problem. That's why I argue with your kind most on this issue, even though I'm in the middle.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Coming into this cold since I was lsat here, once again I see the futility of it. No matter what facts are presented, the same arguments are offered again and again "X only did it once; Y has done it many times", "you apologists", name calling and back-and-forthing.

Why don't we just admit there's no getting through to them and move on to more productive things? One thing is very clear:
_________

Those trying to bring perspective to the discussio have NEVER said they support Muslim terrorism. They have made an effort to understand its roots, show that all religions can be used for evil, and tried to separate "Islam" from "terrorism" with facts and examples. At the same time, not ONCE has anyone "excused" acts of violence or terrorism, and said quite clearly they abhor same.

The anti-Muslims among us, however, never give an inch that Muslims might be human beings in the majority, that Islam is anything but a religion of hate and violence, and have consistently made over-the-top claims about libs and about people being "warm and fuzzy" toward terrorists. No response is given to refutations of claimed "facts" presented, and nowhere is recognition that the vast majority of Muslims aren't terrorists. They speak of little but violence against Muslims and Islam, and violence/hate come easily and quickly to them.
________

Does that not paint the entire picture? Aside from a few on the fence, that is the sum total of this "debate", which isn't one anyway because facts have been offered and plainly ignored or rejected, never refuted, or the "tit for tat" has gone on of how much "more" or "less" the two religions have been violent.

Links have been posted; one of which outright lied by saying the Qu'ran preaches that Muslims can lie to gain their end, when in fact, the "lie" they talking about can only be used to hide their faith in the face of persecution. No reply was given whatsoever when I posted that, or refuted anything else which was offered by way of facts.

I know numerous peaceful Muslims; three down at the cigarette store down the road. I've become friends with them, especially the younger nephew of the guy who runs the store; we talk Dari to one another and I ask him the meaning of words in Dari, and he shares some of my political beliefs; we disagree on others. But he HATES what's happened to Islam because of the terrorists and decries their ever actions. So do the other two. I know other Muslims, and not a one have I heard speak in favor of terrorism or show the slightest indication they feel anything but proud to be here and warmth toward OTHER Americans.

I can give MANY examples of moderate Muslims and peaceful Muslims, quote violence in the Bible as well as in the Qu'ran, cite Christian violence all day; it WON'T GET THROUGH. They NEED this belief they hold, for some reason, and will not give it up, no matter the facts. They are INVESTED in this picture, and no amount of perspective will make a chink in that wall.

End of story. Doesn't mean I won't post more here, just means that's the essence of the argument and it will continue this way until people tire of it and move on.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:17 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
We never yell a single word, then run away. The Left does that, with nonsensical claims of " racism ".

And your " single " example of so call Christian sponsored violence proves MY point , all the more. It's only one, vs a world wide list of Islamo fascism, and it's more cultural than anything. There's simply no valid comparison w/ you example.






Auraptor, when are going to get tired of kicking this clown around? Really, how can you debate a person when you you list example after example things that prove your case and this clown can't post anything other than an attack on Christians, especially when you are not a christian and is not the point. YOU know all religions are retarded, but have the intellectual honesty to see that one religion is far more opressive than the other, one is wageing a war against humanity and the other is having potluck dinners and donating billions in charity worldwide to better mankind...sure in the name of a fictional character, but morally right.

I think he has to know you are right, he can't be that fucking stupid, and is just doing it to argue. Because he comes off as a fool with no real piont.

I posted a link under Islamophobia thread where the Chicago tribune keeps a running tab on bombings around the world.. they are 98% muslim. check it out, it will give you even more firepower to continue making this guy look stupid. Not that you need it......

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:19 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Facing the facts is not stoking up fear. Intolerance ? He'll yes. You seem to think that standing up to evil is worse than the evil that has declared war on ALL OF US.




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Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Niki,

What is this discussion about?

Is it basically an 'Islam is Evil/Muslims are Evil' thing?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:44 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Intolerance ? He'll yes.

Intolerance of Islam? A whole religion, of 1.5 billion adherents? You think if we lobby hard enough we can force a change in the tenets of Islam? Rewrite the Koran along modern Western principles? I'm afraid religion doesn't work that way. Religion cannot deviate far from its holy writings, and getting people to give up their religion is not going to happen either. If Islam itself is the problem (and I'm halfway towards agreeing with you on that, but no more than that), then it's a problem that's here to stay, and the best we can do is manage, contain and minimise it.

Quote:

You seem to think that standing up to evil is worse than the evil that has declared war on ALL OF US.

I think launching attacks on Muslim countries in pursuit of evil, is exactly what that evil wants. Better still if we call it a 'crusade' while we're doing it. What other ideas for 'standing up to evil' do you have? Limiting religious freedoms of Muslims living in the West?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:40 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Those trying to bring perspective to the discussio have NEVER said they support Muslim terrorism.



Niki, I recall times when I was telling you to give up on these types of "debates" LOL! I know what you're saying, but I wanted to get my say in, even it's only to repeat what's already been posted here.

Rappy, I can see why you get so easily frustrated and jump to name calling and general superiority complex asshatery. It's because the argument you're trying so hard to stand against doesn't exist. As you've been told countless times, no one is ignoring Islamic terrorism, or saying it doesn't happen. You've been asked to find the quote of someone saying that. Have you? Have you even looked?

Of course not.

As long as you keep putting up that strawman, you won't accomplish much except to diddle yourself. Which I guess is what you're after, right? Get out the lotion, invent a nonexistent stupid argument for your opponents, then stroke while you tell them how stupid they are. Mmmm-mmm. Feels good, huh?



-----------------------------------------------
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Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:51 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Intolerance ? He'll yes.

Intolerance of Islam? A whole religion, of 1.5 billion adherents? You think if we lobby hard enough we can force a change in the tenets of Islam? Rewrite the Koran along modern Western principles? I'm afraid religion doesn't work that way. Religion cannot deviate far from its holy writings, and getting people to give up their religion is not going to happen either. If Islam itself is the problem (and I'm halfway towards agreeing with you on that, but no more than that), then it's a problem that's here to stay, and the best we can do is manage, contain and minimise it.

Someone posted this some time ago here, but I don't recall who or where - it was about being the best USA we can be, and showing the Muslims (and other folks) of our country that our system can work for them. Separating church and state, standing up for equal rights for all religions and genders, etc, works. That message would do more to change the systems of the "axis of evil" countries then all the bombs and troops we've been throwing at them.

Being the bully that America's been for half a century and more is completely counter productive. (Well, except to line the pockets of big companies and rich folk.) Being the idealized freedom loving democracy we claim to be, rather than emulating the extremism and intolerance we profess to hate, might actually do a helluva lot more.

And I can't believe I'm posting this, because it should be so fucking obvious. Obviously it's not, because so many Americans are too blinded by hate to let a bunch of New Yorkers build a building to do their own harmless, everyday business in.


-----------------------------------------------
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Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

seem to think that standing up to evil is worse than the evil that has declared war on ALL OF US
So who’s not “standing up to evil”, exactly? Where are our soldiers, and who are they waging war against? What you CHOOSE not to get is that persecuting and hating ALL Muslims is declaring war on THEM, the vast majority of which have done us no harm. That’s the difference you are so bent on ignoring in order to promulgate your own hatred.

No, Anthony, for me and others, as far as I can see, it’s a matter of “Islam and all Muslims are evil and we should kill them all” vs. “Islam, like other religions, can be used for evil; Muslims are human beings; neither is The Terrorist; we should see the difference”. I probably didn’t put that very well, but that’s the crux of it for me.

There is absolutely NO recognition on the former side that there are reasonable, moderate Muslims or that Islam may have it’s equivalent evils done by other religions. There is only “we are good; they are bad; nuke ‘em”.

Uuhhh, KPO, he WOULD limit religious freedom of Muslims living in the West if he couldn’t haven’t you gotten that? “ISLAM is EVIL” is the point to them, all Muslims and all Islam should be done away with. The stated fear that they will “take over” and kill us all HAS BEEN MADE QUITE CLEARLY. And remember, there have been other cries across the nation lately for pulling down all mosques and not allowing any more to be built.

You’re right, Mal, I remember that, tho’ I cant remember who wrote it either. And I think Jon Stewart’s crack was right on, about why don’t we just not give a shit what they think, because they won’t approve no matter what we do, it’s like worrying if your ex-girlfriend would like the drapes you and your wife chose, because she wouldn’t, she’s crazy and that’s why you dumped her. I agree with that completely, with the caveat that deliberately, loudly and publicly doing things which are wrong to begin with is stupid when it gives the REAL enemy recruitment tools. In that respect, we’ve done tons...the Qu’ran burnings is just the latest.
Quote:

Being the bully that America's been for half a century and more is completely counter productive. (Well, except to line the pockets of big companies and rich folk.) Being the idealized freedom loving democracy we claim to be, rather than emulating the extremism and intolerance we profess to hate, might actually do a helluva lot more.
Bang on, in my opinion. I think we should still go after terrorists, in a way which is concomitant with our OWN values, but leave the rest of the bullshit alone. Not that it will ever be possible...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:59 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Waterboarding... witch hunts... When did the the CIA become the Christian Intelligence Agency? Also, when did the USA become a christian theocracy? This whole 'look at how bad these people are, I'll bet they did it cause they are christians' argument is even more childish and stupid than the original argument. At least the original foolish supposition that Muslims want all this violence was actually the topic of the gorram thread!

I've got a radical idea. How about someone defend Islam with examples of peaceful Muslims or peaceful Islamic practices? Do yall enjoy petty finger pointing or is your argument against Muslims being radical nutjobs really that weak?

Please prove me wrong and defend Islam with Islam, not by shaking your finger and pointing to something bad someone else did.



I'm gonna shamelessly quote myself in the event that it get's more attention now than it did the other night when i was all insomniac. Also because like one person got the point. So in cruder terms, if someone looks at a houses bathroom see's an unflushed toilet, should you scream about the soapscum in someone elses shower or should you show them the rest of the first house, maybe some of the better parts like the dining room? Pointing out the christians have had unflushed toilets on occasion does not make the muslim house look any better, but showing them a shiney dining room might help.

It won't stop everyone from focusing on the negative, but you may get some of the more 'big picture' folks to take you more seriously. But, all I'm seein' is finger wagglin' and name calling. If I were pettier I'd be tempted to move further right out of spite. The 'us' vs 'them' approach ain't condusive to unity.

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


It won't stop everyone from focusing on the negative, but you may get some of the more 'big picture' folks to take you more seriously. But, all I'm seein' is finger wagglin' and name calling. If I were pettier I'd be tempted to move further right out of spite. The 'us' vs 'them' approach ain't condusive to unity.



Yes, and all I've EVER heard from the right is that same finger-wagglin' and name-calling. And in general, it has had the effect of pushing me further to the left.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:09 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Pointing out the christians have had unflushed toilets on occasion does not make the muslim house look any better...



To shamelessly quote myself:

"The point of folks here bringing up the bloody history of Christianity: ANY religion, when given full governmental power, will go to that bad place. It is not a unique trait of Islam."

And Moslems do not deserve blind hate any more than Christians do.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:12 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I hope I don't come across as an ass, but why don't you be the bigger man then? Argue by proving them wrong within the issue (ex: Muslim's ain't all terrorist, these Muslims believe this and these Muslims have done that, etc... )instead of pointing at other's failures? And maybe 'they started it' but you could still be the bigger man.

If ya wanted to. Free speech an all, so no reason why we can't shout at each other instead I 'spose.

Edit: Mal4prez, good point on the government angle, I missed that post when I caught up somehow.

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 4:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I hope I don't come across as an ass, but why don't you be the bigger man then? Argue by proving them wrong within the issue (ex: Muslim's ain't all terrorist, these Muslims believe this and these Muslims have done that, etc... )instead of pointing at other's failures? And maybe 'they started it' but you could still be the bigger man.

If ya wanted to. Free speech an all, so no reason why we can't shout at each other instead I 'spose.

Edit: Mal4prez, good point on the government angle, I missed that post when I caught up somehow.




Well gosh, I hope *I* don't come across as an ass, but have you actually TRIED that tactic with right-wingers? As I've pointed out to Rappy, for instance, time and time again, when people go around making blanket generalizations like "Muslims are all terrorists, and all Muslims are terrorists, Islam is evil", then all I have to do is point out ONE SINGLE example of them not being so, and his "point" is 100% disproven.

Thing is, no matter how many examples are pointed out, righties like Rap - and a great many others - simply CANNOT acknowledge that fact, and just entrench themselves further within their little shell of ignorance and blindness.

You say it's the finger-wagglin' that pushes them further right. It's not - it's ANY disagreement. Show them concrete facts, and they will shut down, shoot the messenger (calling said messenger "retard", "fag", and "anti-American" are favorite choices amongst this brain trust), or just claim that any such facts are pure fabrication and never happened at all.

I cannot convince them. I can only hope to point out truths in the hope of keeping them from having any undue influence on others.


And yes, when you have the government intertwined with the "official" state religion, you have hell on your hands. Which makes it all the more strange that so many want to outlaw Islam in the U.S., thus entrenching "Christianity" as the official state religion. It's not that they don't believe that's what they are doing that scares me; it's that they know full well what they are proposing.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ayep, can't have unity when one side wants none of it - some of the folk involved in this, they're zealots, they don't want unity, hell don't even want co-existence, it's all or nothing with em, cause they would not ACCEPT co-existence, all the while they'd be lookin for somewhere to put the knife, to get thier hooks in and build a theocracy, no matter which "side" of this shit they're on, that's what they BOTH want...

And that is why, to me, they're the same damn thing.
Quote:

Whut we got heah, is failure, to communicate... some men, ya jest can't reach... and so, ya git what we had hear last week, which is how he wants it, welll, he gets it, and I dun like it anymore than you do.

In short, if by their refusal to accept any other terms but them-or-me...

Imma do my damndest to make sure at the end of things, it will *NOT* be them still standin.

Ain't simpler than that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, September 13, 2010 8:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


They're right. Anything positive will be immediately rejected, usually with "yeah, but they..." It's kind of a waste of time.

At several points I have posted the history of Islam and what has given the world, and the tolerance shown by Muslims historically. I've also tried to note that this "great" country of ours is BUILT on many of the discoveries and inventions Islam gave us.

It's passed over almost totally, never responded to except with the "yeah, but NOW they..."

But there IS tons of very current positive news about Muslims and how they've acted on their faith. What the hell, it's easy to find, for those who are capable of reading it, here's a few:
Quote:

Muslim scholar appeals for release of three American students imprisoned in Iran

A personal appeal by Ambassador Akbar Ahmed to the Supreme Leader of Iran, Grand Ayatollah Ali Hoseyni Khāmene'i, to show Islamic compassion during Ramadan, the month of fasting, and free the three young American hikers who have been held in Iran for over a year. The appeal comes in advance of the Night of Power, which falls in the last days of the month. It is the time when Muslims are called to show special mercy and kindness.

Islamic Relief awarded four stars by Charity Navigator for seventh year, described 'worthy of public trust'

For the seventh consecutive year, non-profit relief and development organization Islamic Relief USA is pleased to announce that it has been awarded "four stars" for its fiscal transparency and organizational efficiency from leading charity evaluator Charity Navigator.

"This is an accomplishment everyone can take pride in," said Abed Ayoub, CEO of Islamic Relief USA. "Our organization is built on the spirit of our volunteers and the conviction of our donors to make a difference. We take this trust very seriously and do what we can to keep overhead costs low in order to maximize our resources for those in need."

According to the Charity Navigator website, its rating system is based on an evaluation of an organization's financial health, efficiency, and capacity in comparison with the performances of similar charities. A four-star rating indicates that a charity's organizational efficiency and organizational capacity "exceeds industry standards and outperforms most charities in its cause."

"Only 2% of the charities we rate have received at least 7 consecutive 4-star evaluations, indicating that Islamic Relief USA consistently executes its mission in a fiscally responsible way, and outperforms most other charities in America," said Charity Navigator President and CEO Ken Berger in a letter. "This ‘exceptional' designation from Charity Navigator differentiates Islamic Relief USA from its peers and demonstrates to the public it is worthy of their trust."

About Islamic Relief USA: Inspired by Islam's values on charitable giving and community development, IR USA is a relief organization dedicated to alleviating poverty through disaster relief and development projects in the U.S. and globally for communities regardless of color, race, religion, or creed. For more information, please visit www.islamicreliefusa.org.

Islamic Relief USA's response efforts to Hurricane Katrina assisted over 60,000 people in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas, and also raised more than $2.2 million dollars for the Haiti earthquake.

Its domestic programs include "Day of Dignity" ( www.dayofdignity.com), an annual campaign to provide thousands of homeless and underserved people in cities across America with food, clothing, blankets, medical care, first aid, and other social needs. ( http://www.religionnews.com/index.php?%2Fpressreleases%2Fislamic_relie
f_usa_awarded_four_stars_from_charity_navigator_for_7th_consec%2F
)

Muslim cleaner returns $50,000 found while on duty

A Pakistani hotel employee has won acclaim after handing in over $50,000 (£33,000) in cash that had been left behind by a guest.

Essa Khan, 51, discovered the money in $100 notes left in the room of a Japanese worker at the Serena Hotel in Gilgit.

Mr Khan, who earns about 21,000 rupees ($235; £153) a month, says he never considered keeping the money.

He has been invited to receive an award from a state governor for his honesty.

"My duty with the hotel and my family upbringing teaches me nothing else," he said.

"Times are hard for everyone, but that doesn't mean we should start stealing and taking things which do not belong to us." ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/10603417.stm)

Muslim becomes president of Chicago interfaith body

June 21 was a proud day for the Illinois Muslim community as they saw Brother Kareem Irfan address the Council of Religious Leaders of Metropolitan Chicago as the first Muslim to be elected President of this interfaith organization. Br. Kareem is a former Chairperson of the CIOGC and has been active in interfaith and advocacy work for several years.

The Council of Religious Leaders strives to create a climate of understanding by sharing the insights of the various religious faiths on issues affecting the common good. It seeks to act with a unified voice on social issues affecting the people of Chicago.

“I feel blessed that Allah has granted me the chance to represent the Council of Islamic Organizations and its Muslim constituency on this important inter-faith body,” said Kareem Irfan.
( http://www.crlmc.org/kareem_irfan.php)

Muslim Students Bring Food, Conversation to Florida Homeless

In the southern U.S. state of Florida, a group of American Muslim students is running a non-profit organization called Project Downtown. The project's goal is to help the poor, poor people of all backgrounds and cultures. Our correspondent went down to the city of Tampa, Florida to learn more about Project Downtown and the Muslim students who belong to it.

Like just about any major city in the United States, the city of Tampa has its share of homeless people. But it also has people who are reaching out to help Tampa's homeless.

"We are here because, in Islam, we are supposed to feed the hungry," said one of the students. "So that's our purpose here. That's all."

The students belong to Project Downtown, an organization that started about two years ago in Miami and now has branches other U.S. cities. The Tampa members of Project Downtown say what motivated them was seeing people in need.

"Project Downtown was started by a couple of groups and a couple of university students back in Miami, and people have been gathering money after seeing a problem in the community, went out and bought sandwiches," said another student. "They went to the local city hall and started feeding."

The city of Tampa has almost 350,000 people. It is estimated that about 11,000 of these are homeless. That's about three percent of the population. For the students of Project Downtown, the religion of the people they are helping does not matter. What matters is that they are in need. Jill Moreida is a member of Project Downturn.

"We come up to them," said Jill Moreida. "We don't just give them food and walk away. We don't feed them like they're at the zoo. We make friends with them; we talk with them. We interact with them. Week after week after week. And we know stories about their family. We know when they're sick. We get to develop relationships with them."

As the relationships develop, Jill says, the homeless gain a new understanding of Islam.

"They say they cannot believe how amazing the Muslims are," said Moreida. "And it's acts like that, that not only are we serving...we do it for the sake of Allah, when we're feeding them. But there's a bigger message being brought, and it's exposing a whole new realm of people to Islam. Teaching them to not be afraid of us, to not have that stereotype that we're going to hurt them or anything."

Project Downtown is one of several outreach efforts sponsored by the Muslim community of Florida. Its funding comes from other Muslim groups in the state, including the Tampa Bay Muslim Alliance. Dr. Hussein Nagamiya, a cardiologist, is head of the alliance.

"Our main idea is to feed the hungry, to clothe the poor, to address their needs, because these are homeless people, and they don't have anywhere to go," said Hussein Nagamiya. "So, we give them conveyances such as bicycles that were given away. We conduct their [medical] tests. Some of them may never have a test in the entire year. We detect diseases for them and send them on to free clinics, etc."

In addition to helping the poor and teaching people about Islam, organizations like Project Downtown and the Tampa Bay Muslim Alliance hope to achieve another goal: Showing their fellow Americans that, in the words of Dr. Nagamiya, the vast majority of American Muslims are good citizens who make positive contributions to the United States. ( http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Muslim-Students-Bring-Food-Co
nversation-to-Florida-Homeless-89434512.html
)

Islamic Horizons Magazine wins 2010 DeRose-Hinkhouse awards

The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) proudly announces that its flagship magazine, Islamic Horizons, is among the winners of the 2010 DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards presented by the Religion Communicators Council – an interfaith association of religion communicators. The Islamic Horizons won the awards in three categories: the “Best of Class” and the “Award of Excellence” categories for its March/April 2009 issue, and the “Certificate of Merit” category for the Nov/Dec 2009 issue.

The DeRose-Hinkhouse Memorial Awards are given annually to active members of the Religion Communicators Council who demonstrate excellence in religious communications and public relations. ( http://www.isna.net/articles/News/ISNAs-Flagship-Magazine-Receives-201
0-DeRose-Hinkhouse-Awards.aspx
)

Muslim leaders back interfaith dialogue for peace

People of faith came together to promote dialogue as a way of attaining world peace, at the International Workshop of Faith-Based Groups and Civil Society (IWFC) held March 16 during the Senior Officials Meeting of the Special Non-Aligned Movement Ministerial Meeting (SNAMM) at the Philippine International Convention Center.

Dr. Aboulkhair Tarason, vice chairman of the National Ulama Conference of the Philippines; Archbishop Antonio Ledesma of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines, and Bishop Efraim Tendero of the Philippine Council of Evangelical Churches co-chaired the workshop.

Tarason expressed optimism about the interfaith dialogue and commended the IWFC and the Philippine government for hosting the workshop.

“I hope this leads us to an understanding of one another and contributes toward the building of peace and strengthening of harmonious relationships, especially among the different cultures in our society,” he said.( http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20100330-26162
4/Muslim-leaders-back-interfaith-dialogue-for-peace
)

Faith inspires Muslim veterinarian's compassion for animals

Dr. Zia Usman is a rarity within the U.S. veterinary profession.

Not only does the Indian-born and -trained veterinarian own a companion animal practice on Chicago's North Side, Dr. Usman is also a Muslim.

Such a combination is unusual among first-generation immigrants who are followers of Islam, according to Dr. Usman's colleague, Riaz H. Siddiqi, a professor at Truman College in Chicago and president of the Muslim VMA.

The association believes approximately 500 Muslim veterinarians are in the United States. Dr. Siddiqi thinks most of them are employed in academia, research, industry, or government, where they are likely to be inspectors in slaughterhouses. Few Muslim veterinarians in the United States work with pets, he said, but this is more a matter of economics, not any Islamic taboo.

Dr. Usman cited a popular account in the Hadith—a collection of narratives based on the words and deeds of the prophet Muhammad and, in addition to the Quran, one of Islam's primary sources for instruction. According to the story, a man took pity on a thirsty dog by giving it water from a shoe.( http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/feb10/100215d.asp)

Montreal Muslim wins Martin Luther King Jr. Legacy award

The award was presented to Mr. Yeboah on January 18th, by Montreal Mayor Gerald Tremblay and the Martin Luther King Jr. Legacy Committee of Montreal. Mr. Yeboah was recognized for his outstanding work in coordinating the Open Mosques project among local mosques, to help foster bridges of cooperation, understanding and social harmony in the Montreal community.

“It is an honour to see a young member of our community awarded for his efforts,” stated Salam Elmenyawi, president of MCM. “Mr. Yeboah presents a fine example for all our youth, dedicated to positive contribution and civic engagement.”

The Martin Luther King Jr. Legacy Award is presented each year to individuals in Montreal who best exemplify Dr. King’s ideals. Martin Luther King Jr. Day is celebrated each year on the third Monday of January. ( http://www.muslimcouncil.org/en/2010/01/mcm_director_kwasi_yeboah_wins
_martin_luther_king_jr_legacy_award.html#more
)

You see, what people don't realize is that Islam, being such a large part of their lives in every way, also motivates them to follow the compassionate teachings of Mohammed, and they ACT on their religion, quietly, because notoriety isn't necessary for good works and according to their faith.

We don't hear about these things because they're not exciting, and the news wants exciting stuff to report. So we get a biased opinion, all we hear about is the intolerance, the violence--in other words, all we hear about are the extremists, the terrorists, and the rest--the VAST majority of Muslims--go unnoticed.

The EASY compassion and kindness of Muslims is something people don't "get" in many ways; our lives are so sectarian that while, unquestionably, there are Christian, Jewish, etc., organizations helping those in need, there are just as many if not more Muslim organizations doing the same.

One small story to illustrate my point. I think I told it before about Afghans, but it's about Muslims, too. Our jeep, traveling through a small village, ran into a ditch in the snow. There was NOBODY in evidence, not a single soul--it was a poor village so everyone was no doubt huddled around their fires.

Almost immediately, out of nowhere it seemed, a large group of men appeared. They just walked up to the jeep, lifted it out of the ditch and put it on the road, laughing, then waved us on our way. It never occurred to them to ask for money or anything else in return. Yes, they were joking "daiwana Americana" (meaning "stupid"), but they were laughing and friendly and thought nothing of helping us out, when it would have been easy to either stay indoors or come out and laugh at us without doing anything.

The fact so many abhor, that they LIVE their religion so strictly, also means that their mentality moves them to help others, to be compassionate when others wouldn't be, and is a huge part of their thinking.

There are soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who can attest to the acceptance and kindness of Muslims, we just don't hear about it.

You want more...there is tons and TONS more. Many examples can be found at http://muslimpositive.blogspot.com/ Those I posted are the most recent, but the archives go back to 2004, and are stuffed with things like this:
Quote:

"Muslim Court Defends Rights of Christians" (Malasya), "Muslim Medical Group Sets Up Clinics" (Haiti), "Muslim Pilgrimage Calls for Peace"(Malasia), "Muslims donate more than 500 coats for kids" (Canada), "Muslims and Christians stand together against family violence" (Norway), "Muslim women participate in peace seminar" (Monrovia), "Muslim store owner in NY gives would-be thief $40 and a loaf of bread" (New York: A New York area convenience store owner confronted by a bat-wielding would-be robber said Tuesday he decided to show mercy on the man after he collapsed in tears and said he just wanted to support his starving family. The store owner provided the man with $40 and a loaf of bread, but only if he promised never to rob again. "This was a grown man, crying like a baby," said Mohammad Sohail, owner of the Shirley Express convenience store"), "Muslim charity helps Jews celebrate Passover" (SANA'A), "Thousands of Muslims vow to combat terror" (BANGALORE: India’s one of the most prominent Muslim organizations, the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind (JUH), organized a massive anti-terrorism convention in Bangalore on Saturday, which strongly condemned terrorism in all its forms.
Attended by thousands Muslims from different walks of life at the historic Palace Grounds the convention was addressed by leading Muslim and Hindu scholars. The Muslims declared their commitment to their faith, solidarity with their leaders and patriotism. The convention strongly condemned terrorism in all its forms including that done by terror groups and governments. The crowds also took oaths against terrorism.), "Muslims hold peace march in India" (India), "Islamic leader walks the peace walk across Canada" (Canada: An Islamic leader who mortgaged his house to walk across Canada in the cause of non-violence is striding toward Victoria after six months on the road).

I could go on forever. They do things QUIETLY; their faith says to, so we don't hear about all their acts of tolerance and faith around the world. These are just a VERY tiny sample and only go back as far as 2009. We need to hear more about this stuff, and less about the tiny minority of terrorists, but we won't. It's not "news" according to the MSM.

Now you'll get responses from all our righties saying things like "Christians do it too" and "Yeah, BUT..." They cannot conceive or accept anything but the two-dimensional, blinkered, government-and-MSM-fed vision, and will pay it no attention.

Some of the definitions of blindness per Merriam-Webster:
Quote:

unable or unwilling to discern or judge; unquestioning blind loyalty; having no regard to rational discrimination, guidance, or restriction; lacking a directing or controlling consciousness.
That's what we're dealing with here, the result of prejudiced information propounded by those with an agenda. It will not change; they will not change; so why bother? I bother for the rest of you. I wish others could learn.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, September 27, 2010 7:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


» 03/23/2010 13:44
PAKISTAN
Punjab: Christian burned alive dies, Christian community calls for justice
by Fareed Khan

Arshed Masih, a 38 year-old Pakistani Christian, died yesterday evening at 7.45 from his very serious injuries. The family requests that an autopsy is performed before the funeral. Christian associations and human rights activists demonstrate outside the hospital. Catholic leaders: the federal and provincial government do not punish the guilty.

On March 19 a group of Islamic extremists burned alive Arshed Masih, a driver employed by a wealthy Muslim businessman in Rawalpindi. His wife worked as a maid in the same estate, situated in front of a police station. Recently disagreements had arisen between the employer, Sheikh Mohammad Sultan, and the couple because of their Christian faith. The couple had suffered threats and intimidation to force them to convert to Islam. "


http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Punjab:-Christian-burned-alive-dies,-Ch
ristian-community-calls-for-justice-17960.html


"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Monday, September 27, 2010 2:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Is it just me, or is anyone else maybe catching a whiff or two of JEALOUSY here - that the Christians are pissed that Muslims can get away with shit they wish THEY could do ?

Cause that's damn sure what it smells like to me.

Not a dimes worth of difference between em, in my eyes.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, September 27, 2010 2:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/17/grandmother-thought-infan_n_7
21057.html


Woman stabs her grandson because she was convinced he was "the antichrist".

Religion of peace, indeed...

And yes, it definitely sounds like jealousy, at least coming from Rappy.

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Monday, September 27, 2010 11:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Is it just me, or is anyone else maybe catching a whiff or two of JEALOUSY here - that the Christians are pissed that Muslims can get away with shit they wish THEY could do ?

Cause that's damn sure what it smells like to me.

Not a dimes worth of difference between em, in my eyes.

-Frem.



How about you send those thoughtless sentiments the the man's family? I'm sure they'd appreciate it.


When's the last time a Christian blew up a school bus, or burned someone alive, because they wouldn't convert, all in the name of JE-sus ?


Moron.

I know you and Kwickie know better, and are simply trying to play this game of equivocation, because you can't stand the truth. Put up this false front all you want, though. You're fooling no one.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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