Pollution Solution by canttakesky

I'm just sharing my fantasy for giggles, and to start this thread in Frem's honor.

For time management reasons, I have decided not to elaborate. So do with this what you will. Ignore it, throw rotten tomatoes at me, call me names, insult me to your heart's content. I will not defend myself. :)

-----
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.
--Richard Feynman, Physicist.

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Monday, November 8, 2010 2:06 PM

I'm not Frem but

1, 2, 3 yes, absolutely.

4. You correctly understand a problem, but this is not a solution. Everyone in Iraq and Afghanistan already has a gun and knows how to use it, but as I just said to Wulf, that's no match for a predator drone. I was just at a muslim wedding, and at one point the thought occurred to me that were we somewhere else we would be annihilated because some infrared computer would have determined that this was a high-density gathering of humans and therefore an insurgent target.

You need to make weapons that don't harm the environment.

5. This would be a disaster. Groundwater pollution is a far worse problem than air pollution. Think about it. Our ground water is 100 feet thick, or so, our troposphere, 10 miles.

6. It would be much easier to design a road system that had no intersections.

7. agreed

8. I'll have to look into that.

9. Much easier to just kill the market for meat. Alas, I think the most effective way to do that is probably scare tactics

Sure, people will still be allowed to eat it, but if you kill it as the default fast food lunch, you will do wonders for the planet as a whole, not just animal rights. Meat will become a premium product, and so people will eat less, and become healthier. Also, a pound of meat takes about a hundred times as much land use to produce than the equiv. protein in plants.

10. Yes, but let the private sector do it, they're far more efficient. Just get govt. out of their way. Instead of a new carbon tax, a tax break for green energy maybe.

If I weren't feeling so awful I'd have points to add to this, but I am, so good night.

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Monday, November 8, 2010 2:07 PM

WHOZIT

I want a "Bluesmobile" replica, it has a 440 cubic inch gas guzling smoke spewing engine. It also has a really big truck I can fill with veal.

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Monday, November 8, 2010 3:20 PM

STINKINGROSE

EROI!
Peak Oil!
Carrying Capacity!
The Tragedy of The Commons!
BEYOND THE LIMITS!

(Sorry, guess who's taking a course in Global Environment this term?!)

I think we need to teach people to photosynthesize so we can become primary producers and not need to use all that land to raise food for people we cannot viably support in the long run. (Guess who's also taking Genetics.. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA...!)

Earth that was, we used her up.. wore her out..

Still not giving up my coffee, chocolate, or bacon dagnabbit!

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Monday, November 8, 2010 3:35 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
I can't change a thing in the USA, cause well, no one agrees with me. Apparently, I can't communicate worth a damn, so no one will ever agree with me.

I disagree. Oh.

Dammit.

I *mean*, I don't necessarily disagree with you on the Norfolk Island thing. I sometimes raise persnickety questions to play Devil's advocate, just to try to poke at peoples' notions and ideas to see if they've missed thinking something through.

But it certainly doesn't imply that I disagree with the basic concepts espoused.

Now, as to this load of guff (I kid! I kid!)... I'll go point by point down your list.

1. Bike lanes everywhere.

Yes. Quite. Some "bike boulevards" (bike ONLY roads/trails) would help, too. They're just starting this program in Austin.

2. Nationwide train system, esp for cargo.

Abso-fucking-lutely. And high-speed rail for passengers AND cargo.

3. Kick-ass mass transit systems.

I wish.

4. Give everyone a gun and provide free militia training. No standing military. No wars unless someone invades, period. (Wars and the war infrastructure are very polluting, ya know.)

I'm actually in favor of this. It seems to work quite amazingly well in Switzerland.

5. Have all power, gas, and phone lines run underground.

Before I even read DT's response, I was thinking, "Wouldn't it pollute LESS to have them ABOVE ground?"

6. Install no traffic lights. Encourage a culture of relying on good judgment for driving. Hopefully, with the kick-ass mass transit system, most drivers will be professionals who know how to use good judgment.

Here is a video on no traffic lights, for your amusement. :)
http://www.wimp.com/trafficlights/

Intriguing. I think you'd need a lot more training for drivers of all kinds, though. Not that that's a bad thing in any way. We tend to treat driving as if it's a birthright (and PN will no doubt insist that it IS a right)

7. Widespread free access to education on all possible pollutants, including but not limited to vehicle emissions, greenhouse gases, herbicides/pesticides, cleaning chemicals, and electromagnetic radiation (from cell phones and wireless technology). IMPORTANT: IF there is debate, this will include expert views from all sides. For example, the *other* side of GW, EMFs, and DDT will get its say.

I'd rather just see widespread free access to education of all kinds, but this is your fantasy world, not mine, so I'll play.

8. "Deliberative democracy."

Here is a cool description of how it works.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2015481,00.html

Agreed.

I wouldn't make anything mandatory, but I would find a way to have all community leaders participate, so they can understand the scientific issues re chemical and physical pollution. The goals are to:

a. make policy decisions re food and product labeling
b. make policy decisions on what kind of pollution would constitute damage of property and life

9. Foster a culture and lifestyle that:

a. value humane treatment in livestock handling
b. value local farming and local food consumption
c. value organic farming and organic food consumption
d. discourage waste, esp waste of electricity.
e. value recycling, repairing, and re-use of products
f. value minimal packaging.

You had me at "humane". :D

10. Last, but not least, make research and development of new energy technologies the country's NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. That includes efficiency research of current tech, waste disposal research, safety research, alternative energy research, etc. Whatever it takes, all our extra pennies have got to go into this instead of buying new HD TV's.

So close... Sorry, but have you actually SEEN "Serenity" in blu-ray on a 55" screen?

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, November 8, 2010 4:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I disagree. Oh.

Dammit.

FOCL! Thank you, Mike. You made me laugh so hard. I owe you one.

Hey, I was hoping to hear y'alls fantasies too. (Not the kind about black leather, mind you.)

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 12:32 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
(Not the kind about black leather, mind you.)

Oh, but I had a really nice one, with chains and spikes, and there was a pot of boiling oil!

Ah well...

I'm with ya on mosta that, but I have much simpler ambitions, primary among them not treatin our kids worse than our pets...

But some stuff, well, for one - as I mentioned recently one of my major bitches about junkmail is that you can't eat the damn stuff, and since everyone pitches it, just winds up a total waste...

Come to find out the idea is far more viable than I anticipated - not only is edible paper and ink available, the ink is hella CHEAPER than normal printer ink!
(not like it wouldn't be considering how much exploitation goes on with that)
Chatted up some folk at Kopykake enterprises on the technical details, and this is an idea we could run with - just imagine the possibilities.

The other thing I would go forward with, instead of banning is research into cloning/genetic engineering, but in a CLOSED, stable environment - just lookin at the wreck Monsanto makes of things is enough to see it could be done better.

I have zip-diddly theological objections to this, and for that alone seem to be able to look at it objectively.

Firstoff, it would reduce the essential waste and resource requirements for meat, while being able to produce it to order without harming a single living being of any kind, not to mention the stuff would be better for you without all those hormones, preservatives, fillers, etc.

As for genetic engineering, while my idea of a McNugget Tree with flavored sap is primarily a joke, there are other useful things which could be done - for example, palm trees that produce power via photosynthesis ?

Problem is, one would have to go pretty far down the social development line before it would even be wise to try - cause you tried that now, the military would try to develop supersoldiers, the politicians and CEOs would try developing a mentally deficient and compliant labor force, and the religious would want... etc etc yadda yadda.
Not to mention some MORON, probably American, would likely try to weaponise it and then fuck it up or fumble it - so it'd be a damn long time before I would trust such development in the hands of any society, much less our currently rabid one.

In the end what really needs to be done, and this ties in with my opinion of the way we treat kids, is to smash authoritarianism wholesale, cause not only does it lead to the bitter and destructive conflict between religions, races, political and social entities...
It also hinders scientific development cause people will NOT think in any direction but linear, this is why Finnish, Swedish, and even current Russian software is way the hell ahead of ours, specifically security ware (although there's also other reasons for that)...
But the whole problem revolves around scientists, who instead of exploring, go along with "This-is-the-only-right-way" and spend more time TRYING to crush any concept that shows otherwise than exploring it - that is idiotic, and downright unscientific.

If you look at how our technological development stalled on a line graph, it's like it hit a fucking brick wall in the mid80s an all but STOPPED - and our social development stopped about a decade before and started regressing circa 1990.

So in order TO solve the other problems, one must solve THOSE first, and it starts with not mentally, emotionally, and socially mangling future generations, crippling them before they can even defend themselves.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 1:50 AM

Speaking of fantasy technology, I would love to see persistent attempts at cold, or even lukewarm, fusion. It seems like people gave up on it waaaay too easily.

-----
Disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it's probably wrong. If you're not sure about where I stand, please ask, preferably politely, before jumping to conclusions. Thank you.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 3:22 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
4. Give everyone a gun and provide free militia training. No standing military. No wars unless someone invades, period. (Wars and the war infrastructure are very polluting, ya know.)

And in my country the solution is very similar, but more of a one-step process:

1. Wait till your country does all that wonderful stuff and has dismantled its military and its armaments industry then conquer your country killing everyone who resists and making slaves of those who don't resist (women, children, liberals) then making use of that slave labor to man your factories to produce goods for my people thus eliminating the need for domestic pollution while at the same time using your beautiful land as a vast toxic dumping ground thus preserving my own...and I shall call you California...

I note for the record that I'm against both military conquest and slave labor...but since this is all about enviromental protection and solving one particular problem...I am forced to make an exception...because Earth is more important then mere political philosophy.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 5:37 AM

LOL, Hero. That was actually a very witty satire. I enjoyed it.

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Disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it is probably wrong. If you're not sure where I stand, please ask, preferably politely, before jumping to conclusions. Thank you.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 5:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
So in order TO solve the other problems, one must solve THOSE first, and it starts with not mentally, emotionally, and socially mangling future generations, crippling them before they can even defend themselves.

Root of all evil. I like it (not the root, your solution).

I think they has got to be a "mentality," a cultural norm and a societal more, for caring for the environment. Here in Peru, people keep their houses really clean. But once out in the public area, it is normal to dump trash willy nilly anywhere one pleases. The filth is everywhere, worse in some parts of town than others. It isn't that they are a dirty people at all. But that it is culturally acceptable to treat many public areas as landfills. Out in rural areas, especially, they don't have a sense of care and reverence for physical surroundings outside the home.

I think it is a value system that has to be instilled when young.

----
Disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it is probably wrong. If you're not sure where I stand, please ask, preferably politely, before jumping to conclusions. Thank you.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 9:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

What fun! Fantasy land, because I think a lot of it is impossible, given the nature of humans, but some of it is becoming and more is becoming possible, and I love a lot of it.

1, 2, and 3, Oh YES you YES!!!

4. I agree with the second part about no wars, but I have problems with both the idea of militia and doing away with the military. Small groups can be abused, leaders of small groups can be a problem, and competition for any number of things can turn one against the other.

5. I agree with DT wholeheartedly. There isn’t enough education for the general public on this problem.

6. I like the IDEA, but I don’t think it’s workable. People internalize their cars as part of themselves; there will always be those who want to abuse the privilege, and without some sort of authority to minimize that, I see chaos resulting.

7. I’m with Mike:

Quote:
I'd rather just see widespread free access to education of all kinds

I would say alternatively, more EMPHASIS on education about pollution within the educational system, and more efforts to educate the public on ecological problems THEY can affect personally and by voting.

8. I’m not sure, I don’t have enough information to make a good decision.

9. I’m with DT, wholeheartedly. This IS happening to a degree, as red meat has become more expensive, and it would be good to see it continue in that direction. As to local farming; in California, 98% of dairies are family owned; here, we have a large “Agricultural Trust”; people get 99-year LEASES on land, which they lose if they abuse the land. There’s more to it than that, but it’s a forward momentum that is growing around here.

10. That’s a toughie. Yes, I think private enterprise would be the better way, but it will take SO long for private enterprise to find it more profitable to seek new methods than stick with what we’ve got... If there were more education of the public and being a polluter more difficult, demand would bring about changes. Again, it’s happening, but way too slowly and so far way too small. Here, every market offers cloth grocery bags (not the solution, but an improvement) and at my local market, nearly half of us use them. More; and better than cloth.

As far as packaging, don’t get me started! The same with reusing, recycling, and reducing waste. Again, here in CA we have mandates to reduce pollution and waste, freely-provided curbside recycling, even of yard waste, and our local refuse enterprise is FUN...it’s loaded with pigs, goats, etc., which are fed everything edible after waste is divided into recyclables and before things go to the actual dump. More of that would be good; would produce edible meat products as well as minimizing waste.

I disagree about the technology not moving forward. In CA, the things you’ve listed as far as waste and pollution are BIG. There’s a listing at http://www.earthresource.org/events/Zero%20Waste2/Zero%20Waste%20Busin
esses.pdf . Examples:

Apple, Elk Grove, CA: Elk Grove computer manufacturing plant recycled 91%, or nearly 6,000 tons of waste, in fiscal year 1999

Amdahl Corporation, Santa Clara: 90% Waste Diversion since 1990 (the list of what they reuse and recycle is AMAZING!)

Anheuser-Busch, Fairfield: The facility sent over 94,000 tons of spent grain to cattle feed alone in 2001; also diverted some 220 tons of beechwood chips to composting and recovered almost 970 tons of alcohol (Again, the list of what they’ve recycled is enormous)

Battery Council International (BCI): As of 2000, average annual recycling rate for the lead in lead-acid batteries is now 94.6%.

Fetzer Vineyards, Hopland: Fetzer has reduced its garbage by 93% in the last seven years. Its goal is to achieve Zero Waste.

Hewlett-Packard in Roseville: Diverts 92-95% of its solid waste; saving almost a million dollars a year in avoided waste disposal costs.

I’m sure such programs are going on around the country; we need more, and more incentives. Here the programs have been going on for decades...I believe, as usual, we have been on the cutting edge. There is money to be saved by these companies, so it BEGAN as a mandatory thing, but now is part of cost-savings (i.e., profit increasing) for the businesses. But they wouldn’t have begun to do so by themselves, most likely.

And finally, while I love so much of this stuff, I have to defer to Frem that any and all of it needs a different INFRASTRUCTURE. By that I mean not “hard” infrastructure ("hard" infrastructure refers to the large physical networks necessary for the functioning of a modern industrial nation) but “soft” infrastructure ("soft" infrastructure refers to all the institutions which are required to maintain the economic, health and cultural/social standards of a country, such as the financial system, the education system, the health care system, the system of government and law enforcement, as well as emergency services).

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 10:44 AM

I almost forgot DT's pet peeve: deforestation. So important, how could I forget?

So, number 11: Plant trees wherever we're not growing crops. :)

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Disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it is probably wrong. If you're not sure where I stand, please ask, preferably politely, before jumping to conclusions. Thank you.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 12:48 PM

Thanks.

Reforestation is not enough of course, we can't replace species loss, and we don't be able to match the massive carbon sink of first growth.

Desertification is also an issue, particularly in Africa, but also central asia, and sadly, now e. brazil and w. USA for a while now. This problem has two major sources:

Diverted waterflow
Overgrazing

A third environmental issue of importance: Overfishing. This is overwhelmingly caused by international fisheries not respecting fishing borders, and mostly solved by farm fishing.

Fourth, groundwater contamination. Being on an island in the middle of a river where they're about to start pouring toxins from the hydrofracking, I'm somewhat concerned about this issue.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 12:58 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
2. Nationwide train system, esp for cargo.

Interesting article about this in the latest Newsweek, indicating that at least high-speed passenger rail might not be all that great a pollution solution. Not saying this is the correct opinion, but it is something to consider.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/why-high-speed-trains-don-t-make-se
nse.html

As for cargo, there is already a pretty substantial nationwide rail system, which could use some updating. However, when you get to the distribution end, there's a point of diminishing returns where it's just not practical to run rails rather than transshipping in trucks.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 12:59 PM

Quote:
palm trees that produce power via photosynthesis ?

Actually, this is the sort of stuff you have to be wary of: They do so very inefficiently, and people are cutting down rainforests to plant palm trees. The algae is the best one I've heard yet, before that I was down with the saw grass, which is the most efficient crop, but it's nothing compared to algae.

Quote:
black leather

I was just posting my Ally Sheedy fantasies, and yes, Ally Sheedy in black leather, I had forgotten that... Red Shoe Diaries 4: Auto Erotica. I have to say, it was a big disappointment. I was hoping for some more serious degradation of her career for my own male fantasies than this show actually delivers, but it does give us Ally Sheedy in black leather, thanks for reminding me of that image.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 1:07 PM

Rose

Peak oil is a myth, but it's all moot now, hopefully: Algae biofuels.

Carrying capacity, yes, that issue matches with dessertification, but also groundwater contamination, so yes, my two points can be combined into yours.

Radical increase in carrying capacity of farmland yields is very possible and will solve the overpopulation problem. With existing technology and no restraints, we'd be good for another 500 years on the farmland we have.

Okay so we're agreed. Stop pollution, but how?

We know govts. will never sign on to it because they're corrupt, and also, some of the biggest polluters themselves. But maybe we can get corporations to sign on individually.

Either that, or I'm supporting a citizens militia against the polluters. I mean, hell, if someone was coming here with million of tons of explosive to remove mountains, I would suggest the locals start shooting, and not stop until they were out.

But I'm open to better ideas

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 1:41 PM

DT, all good points on the deforestation, desertification, overfishing, groundwater contamination, and overgrazing.

Oh, I just thought of also eco-friendly housing.

I saw this and loved it. It is so gorgeous to boot.

http://greenbuildingelements.com/2008/12/01/hand-build-an-earth-shelte
red-house-for-5000/?ref=nf

Re shooting polluters, my hub told me a story he had heard when traveling in Africa. He said some European business had gone to the Congo, bought some land, mined the shit out of it, and threw all their toxic waste into the river. The local tribe, whose entire existence depended on that river, tried to negotiate with them re the pollution. The corp mercenaries killed the tribal chief cause it was easier than compromise. So the tribe went in one night and killed them all. Every single one.

I dunno what to think about that. But it sure solved the pollution problem. Nobody polluted there after that. It's a capital crime.

----
Disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it is probably wrong. If you're not sure where I stand, please ask, preferably politely, before jumping to conclusions. Thank you.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 2:12 PM

Quote:

Okay so we're agreed. Stop pollution, but how?

Actually, I'm not sure we're "agreed" - I'd love to *stop* pollution, but I'm not sure it's 100% achievable anytime soon. Let's work on SLOWING pollution, at least at first.

As I've pointed out time and again, for big problems, there is never a single, big, sure-fire, 100% solution. But there are always, ALWAYS, a whole passel of SMALL, 5% solutions. Gather up 10 of those and you're halfway home.

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 2:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
DT, all good points on the deforestation, desertification, overfishing, groundwater contamination, and overgrazing.

Oh, I just thought of also eco-friendly housing.

I saw this and loved it. It is so gorgeous to boot.

http://greenbuildingelements.com/2008/12/01/hand-build-an-earth-shelte
red-house-for-5000/?ref=nf

Re shooting polluters, my hub told me a story he had heard when traveling in Africa. He said some European business had gone to the Congo, bought some land, mined the shit out of it, and threw all their toxic waste into the river. The local tribe, whose entire existence depended on that river, tried to negotiate with them re the pollution. The corp mercenaries killed the tribal chief cause it was easier than compromise. So the tribe went in one night and killed them all. Every single one.

I dunno what to think about that. But it sure solved the pollution problem. Nobody polluted there after that. It's a capital crime.

----
Disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it is probably wrong. If you're not sure where I stand, please ask, preferably politely, before jumping to conclusions. Thank you.

And y'know, killing everybody IS a pollution solution. It's just a really, really REALLY radical one.

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 2:30 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I agree with many of the suggestions.

Sometimes shortages are not a bad thing. We're coming out of a long drought here, which has resulted in lots of water restrictions...no sprinklers, filling pools or spas, heavy restrictions on garden watering. Me, I say keep them, even though the drought has broken, people started recycling water, insalling rain tanks and grey water systems, planting drought tolerant gardens and finding other solutions. It took a shortage to make us realise the value of a natural resource.

I think we need to take a good hard look at our urban environments and how our food is farmed and produced.

And from left field...urban garden centres such as those in Cuba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organop%C3%B3nicos - also a result of food shortages during the cold war.

Alotments and landshare ideas are also becoming increasingly common
http://www.rivercottage.net/about/projects/
http://communitygarden.org.au/mcg_cours

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 3:46 PM

Nah, Mikey

Machines would still pollute. Haven't you read twilight? (Campbell, not Stephenie Meyer)

Magon

good ideas. Some of these can be implemented without anyone's approval, which is good.

The source of my right wingedness is probably this: That good ideas can be implemented by the people directly. Sure, bad ones can too, but if they need govt. okay, then, at least here in the US, they are guaranteed to be corrupted into bad ones.

I've thought that rooftop gardening in cities for a while could be greatly upped in efficiency. I find it truly bothersome when I go to a city and encounter the concept of "food" as an abstract. People eat "food" which is either lobster or pollack or chicken or pig without any concern for where it came from or really what it is that they're eating. The result is that they can be highly critical of the taste of the animal that has been killed for their consumption in a manner which seems so decadent as to be intolerable to me.

Really. "The salmon pate wasn't up to par this year..." it about the most decadent thing I've ever heard, and it makes me want to flee the room. Some fish lost his life and they stand around and criticize... so yes, not just for efficiency, but the cities need to become more in touch with what food is and where it comes from. It's easy to see where this sort of thinking is not very far away from thinking about the middle east in terms of the price of oil.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 4:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Either that, or I'm supporting a citizens militia against the polluters. I mean, hell, if someone was coming here with million of tons of explosive to remove mountains, I would suggest the locals start shooting, and not stop until they were out.

Done tried that already.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
Once *again*, unless you're prepared and able to whip shit on the US Army (and who doesn't these days, when a buncha goat herding tribesman can do such a handy job of it, neh?) it's seriously pointless...

And if you COULD, fuck, might as well just take over.

In respect that that, Re: "Arms" - consider well that most aircraft these days, fixed wing or otherwise are wholly dependant on electronics, and unshielded ones at that, and that's all I really need to say, innit ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 4:44 PM

Frem,

1) Yes, but if you *make* them roll out the tanks, then you change the political nature of the situation. Sort of like Tienanmen Square, the govt. has to *admit* to being a corporate whore, and sometimes when a govt. is trying to pretend to be of the people blah blah blitty blah they might have to think about that one first.

2) 'Nuff said. Actually, there are issues with regards to that that I'm not about to post here.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 4:45 PM

CTTS,

Aw! Hobbits!

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 4:48 PM

Quote:

Really. "The salmon pate wasn't up to par this year..." it about the most decadent thing I've ever heard, and it makes me want to flee the room.

I was thinking more along the lines of "flea the room". By dumping lots and lots of actual living fleas on these folks. :)

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 5:09 PM

Re doing away with the military...

Switzerland isn't the only country with an "alternative" military structure. Costa Rica has had no military at all since 1948.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Costa_Rica

For the naysayers on this, just sayin'--tain't impossible.

----
The CTS disclaimer: I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If you made an inference, it is probably wrong.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 6:09 PM

Yes, of course, switzerland is not defending by its military, but its banking system. Everyone has their money there, and knows that if they invade the swiss, the swiss will that the money of that invader and use it to buy weapons from their enemies, while safely moving all the other money offshore.

The fact is that the US military serves no purpose. The national guard is more than sufficient to defend the US against non-existent threats

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree with everything DT wrote since my last post...very on point.

As to the drought thing, Magons, same here. We had a couple of years of drought...enough to go on rationing...a while back. While many returned to their old ways when it broke, a lot of people stayed with it. It’s a start.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I agree with everything DT wrote since my last post...very on point.

As to the drought thing, Magons, same here. We had a couple of years of drought...enough to go on rationing...a while back. While many returned to their old ways when it broke, a lot of people stayed with it. It’s a start.

Ditto. I don't water my yard. It's gone native. I keep it trimmed and mowed and neat, but if what grass is there dies in the summer, it comes back when it rains. It does not need me, and it does not need me wasting water on it. I'm not running for "Yard of the Month". :)

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 11:06 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Switzerland isn't the only country with an "alternative" military structure.

Don't ask, don't tell...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I agree with everything DT wrote since my last post...very on point.

As to the drought thing, Magons, same here. We had a couple of years of drought...enough to go on rationing...a while back. While many returned to their old ways when it broke, a lot of people stayed with it. It’s a start.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

You fantasize about Ally Sheedy in black leather?

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 11:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, we kinda get to "cheat" as it were on the watering. We have a natural spring running under the street which comes out in several yards, ours among them. We have never watered the front lawn...it only started to look a big brown during the drought. The tradeoff is the basement floods and I can't plant anything in front because the constant water kills it, but it's a tradeoff I can live with!

No, I don't fantasize about Ally Sheedy, leather or otherwise. I cna appreciate a foxy lady without dreaming OR fantasizing about her, believe it or not. And if I wanted to fantasize about anyone, there are ladies far more my type anyway. Aside from which, what has that got to do with the post you quoted??

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:26 PM

Niki

You said

Quote:

I agree with everything DT wrote since my last post...very on point.

That included an awful lot of things that I said that I did not think were up your ally, (pardon the pun) politically speaking.... so I had to go back and read everything I *had* posted since your last post.

That included this:

Quote:
Me:

I was just posting my Ally Sheedy fantasies, and yes, Ally Sheedy in black leather, I had forgotten that... Red Shoe Diaries 4: Auto Erotica. I have to say, it was a big disappointment. I was hoping for some more serious degradation of her career for my own male fantasies than this show actually delivers, but it does give us Ally Sheedy in black leather, thanks for reminding me of that image.

So, I had to conclude logically that you were in complete agreement with that post, and that it was very on point

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Friday, November 12, 2010 3:06 AM

Ally Sheedy is hot even when she is not in black leather. :)

I wish she would get more jobs. Last time I saw her was on Psych, as a serial killer.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The fact is that the US military serves no purpose.

The military and wars together serve to rationalize rabid taxation of income. Without tons of money, the govt can't get what it really wants: tons of control.

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Friday, November 12, 2010 4:16 AM