If a state seceded... by Niki2

OMG! Niki2 it's Christmas! Get out and do something! I did! I'm drunk and proud!

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Friday, December 24, 2010 12:29 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
OMG! Niki2 it's Christmas!

You're off by a day.
Should also keep in mind that not everybody celebrates Christmas. And those that do may not 'celebrate' in the same way you do.

I think any state severing itself would face a myriad of problems. They'd be impossible to predict, but they would be there.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Friday, December 24, 2010 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
OMG! Niki2 it's Christmas!

You're off by a day.
Should also keep in mind that not everybody celebrates Christmas. And those that do may not 'celebrate' in the same way you do.

I think any state severing itself would face a myriad of problems. They'd be impossible to predict, but they would be there.

Facts are stubborn things.

You're right.....IT'S CHRISTMAS EVE!! NOW BOTH OF YOU GET OUT!! Jez, I'm just getting in and their both STILL posting? Did you 2 do anything?

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Friday, December 24, 2010 12:40 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Not everybody celebrates Christmas.

Hm... I feel like I'm repeating myself.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Friday, December 24, 2010 1:10 PM

DREAMTROVE

Niki

Nothing. No one would do a damn thing. US FEDs would silently argue with state govt. Eventually an agreement would be come to where the state would secede but it wouldnt look like secession, so the US govt would be able to save face. If the Feds actually attack a state, they would never recover, and within two years they would have lost all 50.

Lili

No, everyone celebrates Christmas. I'm a Taoist of Jewish descent, and we celebrate Christmas. Our chinese communist side of the family also does. Some people call it something else.

If you're in a group that doesn't, I'm sorry, your in a fringe group. Think about getting out and having some fun

Whozit

You have a point.

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Friday, December 24, 2010 1:22 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm a Taoist of Jewish descent, and we celebrate Christmas. Our chinese communist side of the family also does.

That's nice for you. It doesn't give you license to belittle someone who might see it as pointless.

Quote:
If you're in a group that doesn't, I'm sorry, your in a fringe group.

You're making a great many assumptions. Why must I be "in a group" that doesn't? Why can't it be my own personal choice?

Quote:
Think about getting out and having some fun.

Again, assumptions. You assume I have no fun if I don't go out and get drunk? I have a gorgeous woman at home to preoccupy my time. Also a playstation and a bottle of red wine. And a computer.
Think about not being an ass because I see something differently than you.
Think, also, about respecting the stance of, for example, a Jehovah's Witness. They do not celebrate Christmas, as far as I'm told. If one were here, they might be even more offended than I am by your disparagement.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Friday, December 24, 2010 1:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm a Taoist of Jewish descent, and we celebrate Christmas. Our chinese communist side of the family also does.

That's nice for you. It doesn't give you license to belittle someone who might see it as pointless.

Quote:
If you're in a group that doesn't, I'm sorry, your in a fringe group.

You're making a great many assumptions. Why must I be "in a group" that doesn't? Why can't it be my own personal choice?

Quote:
Think about getting out and having some fun.

Again, assumptions. You assume I have no fun if I don't go out and get drunk? I have a gorgeous woman at home to preoccupy my time. Also a playstation and a bottle of red wine. And a computer.
Think about not being an ass because I see something differently than you.
Think, also, about respecting the stance of, for example, a Jehovah's Witness. They do not celebrate Christmas, as far as I'm told. If one were here, they might be even more offended than I am by your disparagement.

Facts are stubborn things.

BLAH BLAH BLAH, what ever, Merry Christmas to what ever you 21st Century douchebags are beliveing in these days.

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Friday, December 24, 2010 1:59 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

If a state seceded it would face a great many problems with finance. You know all those problems the country as a whole has? Imagine that kind of problem but with a fraction of the power. That could be a very bad time. I wouldn't want to be in a state that was attempting to ride out the tumult.

I think it's very funny that anyone here can bleat about individual freedoms and all the tyranny of the world, and then shove something like christmas in anyone's face. Really, that's rich. Good job, there.
Me? If I celebrate anything it's the solstice, which at least means something. That's over, so I'm totally done. I'll probably spend tomorrow reading and being mildly annoyed that my usual Saturday routine has been throttled.

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being

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Friday, December 24, 2010 2:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, it's a cryin shame you can't send cake over the internet, PR - or I'd share my holiday cake with you, and you get an extra B-day piece if you want too!

We can always clobber someone with a Yule log later, if you like.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, December 24, 2010 3:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Yanno, it's a cryin shame you can't send cake over the internet, PR - or I'd share my holiday cake with you, and you get an extra B-day piece if you want too!

We can always clobber someone with a Yule log later, if you like.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Your cake would just be a left-wing cartoon hate group cake....with springkles.

Merry Christmas

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Friday, December 24, 2010 5:46 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Ha!

Well, I thank you for the thought offer of cake, and even more for the thought offer of Yule log clobbering

(...the cake is a lie)

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 4:22 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
If a state seceded it would face a great many problems with finance. You know all those problems the country as a whole has? Imagine that kind of problem but with a fraction of the power. That could be a very bad time. I wouldn't want to be in a state that was attempting to ride out the tumult.

PR

Sorry, gotta disagree. Virtually everything done by govt. In America is done by state govts, virtually nothing is done by the US Federal govt is essential to the functioning of a state or the survival of its people.

Still, let's review them one by one.

1) the Us fed. Govt. Spends a lot of resources maintaining an international empire. Who cares? Let it go.

2) Soc. sec. Is a terrible system, that taxes the citizens of the states and pays back, inflation adjusted, an avg of three cents on the dollar. Not only is everyone far better off if it is abolished, many states, such as my own, already have far better programs that are much cheaper.

3) Medicare, see above. Same situation, slightly more efficient, but still inefficient. In my state of NY like many states, completely obviated by the state program.

4) the us defense dept. Each state has a national guard superior to the military of most industrial nations, and we have no natural enemies. This includes having a superior intelligence apparatus and superior responder capability . Even the 911 commission admitted that the attacks of 9.11 would have been intercepted by the NY natl guard if the NYS interceptors an hour earlier had they not been ordered to stand down by the federal govt. Ergo. NY not only needs no military help from the US fed gov, but the Feds are actually a liability.

5) so called state aid. Most of the aid to the states comes in the form of contracts to favored companies, which is corruption and often some form of nepotism. But even if that aid were actually helpful, it is dwarfed in most states by state aid to the federal govt. On balance, in NY, we give a quarter of a trillion dollars more to the federal govt than they give to us. That amounts to a net loss of 15,000 per person for everyone in NY that it costs us to be part of this union which not only does not protect or serve the people, but interferes with both. With the extra money we would not be giving to the federal govt. We could easily afford to extend health care coverage and education benefits to all citizens.

So, you can see where I miss your point. What exactly do we gain from being a part of the union?

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 4:27 AM

DREAMTROVE

See, this is why im a moderate. If that were a left wing cake, it would be a carrot cake with cream cheese on top. If it were a right wing cake, it would have whipped cream on top, but would be filled with pork.

I guess I have to go with Marie Antoinette on this one.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 5:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
OMG! Niki2 it's Christmas!

You're off by a day.
Should also keep in mind that not everybody celebrates Christmas. And those that do may not 'celebrate' in the same way you do.

I think any state severing itself would face a myriad of problems. They'd be impossible to predict, but they would be there.

Facts are stubborn things.

Well, not as bad as you think. Nikki brought up energy...any state or company that produces will also sell it to anyone...Canada for ex.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 7:27 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, I hadn't thought about energy...or water, etc., until I read that stuff. It's an interesting concept, I just thought people might find it interesting to discuss. Didn't think it would get off so QUICKLY to assholes posting their usual assininity.

I posted this yesterday mid-day, so anyone who was "just getting in" and drunk is truly sad. Getting drunk for Xmas and Boxing Day is British tradition, but I don't think MOST Americans do, certainly not on Xmas EVE. Those who consider "getting drunk" a way to celebrate Xmas are their OWN fringe group...and usually pretty stupid and totally unaware of what Xmas is about anyway. Just an excuse to get drunk.

Nobody's going to actually DO it, despite all their fancy election talk ('cuz that's what it IS). They already know all this stuff, and no state could secede without it's population's agreement, which no state could get. People aren't really THAT stupid.

We don't celebrate Xmas. I call it Xmas all the time because I don't believe in Christ the way most Christians do...I think he was an amazing person, like buddha or Ghandi or Mohammed, but son of God? No, thank you.

For us it's Saturday. I'm making a turkey tomorrow, and will make one again in a couple of weeks, because turkeys are all over the place.

But it's definitely not just a fringe group who don't celebrate the holiday. There are tons who can't afford to these days; there are older people like us who have no kids (which is the main reason people have big Xmases: family), and others. I abhor the shopping masses and commercialization of the holiday--these days it starts BEFORE HALLOWEEN around here in some stores! The traffic, etc., is something we have to suffer through until it's all over...that's about it. We didn't bother with a tree the last two years; this year Choey volunteered to trim and untrim it, and it's purty to have around.

Often I went out to Green Gulch, our buddhist community, and they have their own way of celebrating Xmas/New Years combined. After the usual meeting and meditation, we'd light candles in little paper boats and float them on the lake, then go up and have a huge bonfire, write what we wanted, wanted to achieve, wanted to change, etc., on pieces of paper and throw them in the bonfire. More than anything it was something for buddhists to do who didn't celebrate Xmas. It was lovely.

But hey, those who get drunk and spew all over forum boards are welcome to do so...the fact they're ere shows quite clearly how pathetic THEIR Xmases are, so they're welcome to find whatever pleasure they can, poor things.

For us, it's Saturday--and it just started raining. Now that IS something to celebrate!

Best wishes to all, and if you celebrate the holiday, may it be a lovely one for you.

ETA: I HATE carrot cake. Spice cake, with cream cheese frosting...or chocolate...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 8:56 AM

"We don't celebrate Xmas. I call it Xmas all the time because I don't believe in Christ the way most Christians do...I think he was an amazing person, like buddha or Ghandi or Mohammed, but son of God? No, thank you."

Well, just because you don't view jesus as the son of god (nor do I) do you think you should change the name of a religon's holiday? I call it x-mas now and then, but you seem to do it out of disrespect for others. It is a christian holiday and aptly named. You don't have to celebrate it, however i think you should be a little more respectful and understanding of others....Do you change the name of any other religious holidays or is it just the Christians you hate?

Santa hates you as much as Jesus does.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 9:00 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

First off, I didn't CHANGE the name of the holiday; I saw it used many other places.

Secondly, actually, I long ago decided that I should call it Xmas to be RESPECTFUL to Christians. Because I'm not Christian, I don't consider I have the right to use Christ's name in the holiday. I realize you feel differently, that's just how I felt, which is why I started using the word. I thought about it before I started doing so, and it wasn't intended to be disrespectful, it was intended to be just the opposite. Same reason I use "gawd", and "Criste" (or some other misspelling) when I use them as expletives.

To each their own.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 12:02 PM

"Secondly, actually, I long ago decided that I should call it Xmas to be RESPECTFUL to Christians. Because I'm not Christian, I don't consider I have the right to use Christ's name in the holiday."

You have the right to use christ in x-mas. That is what the holiday is. Just as I have the right to say lincoln's birthday. That you choose not to say christ is the disrespect. You know that. I'm not a Buddhist but have no weird feelings saying it. Jesus was just a man, a historical figure, but millions of people believe he is their savior...that is good enough for me. That they celebrate his birthday on dec. 25th and have given it a name...I think out of respect one should not make it a point NOT to call it by its given name because of a personal belief. Have a little tolerance for gawd's sake. Do you ever say the name of other religon's messiahs? Just curious. I think you are being dishonest and your refusal to say Christ is a slight....shame on you. Should really re-think your behavior and how it effects others around you. You should make an effort to not intentionally hurt others. Fucking hippies are all the same. Preach love and understanding and at the same time shit all over humanity.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 12:11 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
I think out of respect one should not make it a point NOT to call it by its given name because of a personal belief.

Yeah, really Niki, you should call all holidays by their given name. So this particular day should be referred to as Saturnalia. Or Yule. Both were solstice celebrations in a time when the solstice fell on December 25th, and have been around for thousands of years. Many traditions of Yule survive to this day. Tree, food, presents... yep. Merry Yuletide!

Facts are stubborn things.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 12:13 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Don't be logical, Lisa. You know they hate that.

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 1:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Yeah, really Niki, you should call all holidays by their given name. So this particular day should be referred to as Saturnalia. Or Yule. Both were solstice celebrations in a time when the solstice fell on December 25th, and have been around for thousands of years. Many traditions of Yule survive to this day. Tree, food, presents... yep. Merry Yuletide!

Facts are stubborn things.

Sure. However, that was not her point. Her's was she could not say Christ because it is disrespectful because of her lack of belief. That is nonsensical. You know that. A name is a name. If we all could not utter the given word of that we don't believe in....blah, forget it.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 2:11 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Yeah, really Niki, you should call all holidays by their given name. So this particular day should be referred to as Saturnalia. Or Yule. Both were solstice celebrations in a time when the solstice fell on December 25th, and have been around for thousands of years. Many traditions of Yule survive to this day. Tree, food, presents... yep. Merry Yuletide!

Facts are stubborn things.

Sure. However, that was not her point. Her's was she could not say Christ because it is disrespectful because of her lack of belief. That is nonsensical. You know that. A name is a name. If we all could not utter the given word of that we don't believe in....blah, forget it.

Hello,

Is Christ a name? I thought it was a religious title. I can understand someone who is a non-believer not wanting to use a religious title while referring to a day of the year.

For them to use Christ would be for them to use the title 'The Anointed One' which could conceivably require her to believe that he IS the anointed one.

Whenever I see campaigns about putting the Christ back in Christmas I wonder if the people behind the campaign realize they are not pushing a name, they are pushing a specific religious belief. It is akin to saying, "Recognize that this day is for the Anointed One."

As a Libertarian and lover of freedom, I can't countenance such campaigns.

As a Christian, I'm also offended by such campaigns. This day is NOT the birthday of the Anointed One, as anyone with a sense of history ought to acknowledge. It's a sham forwards and backwards.

However, it's nice to have a day off to enjoy ham and stuffing, and it's nice to trade gifts with friends. Neither of these things has anything to do with 'Christ.'

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 2:29 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
that was not her point. Her's was she could not say Christ because it is disrespectful because of her lack of belief.

And then you said that holidays should be called by their given names; that changing such names was not respectful. It was your point I was addressing, not hers. Before anyone called it Xmas it was Christmas. Before it was called Christmas it was Christ Mass. Before it was a Mass for Christ, it was a Pagan celebration of the solstice, the return of the sun, and the rebirth of the god, and it was called Yule, Yuletide, or Saturnalia, depending on where one was. Seems like, if you're going to say that the most respectful thing to do is to call a holiday by its given name, that should apply across the board. The original given name for the solstice celebration was Yule, or Saturnalia. Is it not, then, disrespectful to call it anything else? Due, as you say, to a personal belief?

Anthony is also right about Christ not being a name. Christ means "Anointed One." Similarly, Buddha means "Awakened One." Both are commonly mistaken for names rather than spiritually significant titles, but that's what they are.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 3:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Yeah, really Niki, you should call all holidays by their given name. So this particular day should be referred to as Saturnalia. Or Yule. Both were solstice celebrations in a time when the solstice fell on December 25th, and have been around for thousands of years. Many traditions of Yule survive to this day. Tree, food, presents... yep. Merry Yuletide!

Facts are stubborn things.

Sure. However, that was not her point. Her's was she could not say Christ because it is disrespectful because of her lack of belief. That is nonsensical. You know that. A name is a name. If we all could not utter the given word of that we don't believe in....blah, forget it.

Hello,

Is Christ a name? I thought it was a religious title. I can understand someone who is a non-believer not wanting to use a religious title while referring to a day of the year.

For them to use Christ would be for them to use the title 'The Anointed One' which could conceivably require her to believe that he IS the anointed one.

Whenever I see campaigns about putting the Christ back in Christmas I wonder if the people behind the campaign realize they are not pushing a name, they are pushing a specific religious belief. It is akin to saying, "Recognize that this day is for the Anointed One."

As a Libertarian and lover of freedom, I can't countenance such campaigns.

As a Christian, I'm also offended by such campaigns. This day is NOT the birthday of the Anointed One, as anyone with a sense of history ought to acknowledge. It's a sham forwards and backwards.

However, it's nice to have a day off to enjoy ham and stuffing, and it's nice to trade gifts with friends. Neither of these things has anything to do with 'Christ.'

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

Well, that day we all get off is called Christmas. Don't believe me? check your calender, ask your boss why you have it off, or check with the government and ask why they are closed...reality.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 3:34 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
check with the government and ask why they are closed...reality.

So, in this instance, the government is the final and unquestionable authority on the matter. My how very... inconsistent of you.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 7:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Well, just because you don't view jesus as the son of god (nor do I) do you think you should change the name of a religon's holiday? I call it x-mas now and then, but you seem to do it out of disrespect for others. It is a christian holiday and aptly named.

Bullshit.

CHRISTIANS stole the day, and changed the name of ANOTHER religion's holiday, out of disrespect for others. There's never been an iota of evidence that Christ was born on December 25th.

By the way, early "Christians" often referred to the day as "Xmas", and to themselves with an "X", because in the ancient Greek, the name of Christ begins with "X", and it was a "secret" underground way of identifying themselves as Christians.

So to call it Xmas would be a sign of RESPECT to Christians. Who will, of course, still whine about it...

This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 7:13 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
So, in this instance, the government is the final and unquestionable authority on the matter. My how very... inconsistent of you.

Facts are stubborn things.

Total win!

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 3:07 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So to call it Xmas would be a sign of RESPECT to Christians. Who will, of course, still whine about it...

Except on this thread, the person whining is not a Christian. And the Christians (say, I or Anthony) are not whining.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 6:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
check with the government and ask why they are closed...reality.

So, in this instance, the government is the final and unquestionable authority on the matter. My how very... inconsistent of you.

Facts are stubborn things.

Not at all. Just saying the holiday is named and viewed by those that see jesus as christ. That our government and our society decided to recognize and celebrate it matters little. We should have the respect to call it what it is. Christmas. Those that choose not to are grouchy bitter assholes...in my opinion.

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 7:17 AM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

You continue to ignore that "what it is" isn't actually Christmas, if you have any awareness of history. I suppose I shouldn't be shocked.

We should have the respect to call it what it is. Yule.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 9:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Lili dear, you're pssing into the wind, you know that, don't you? There has never, that I recall, been an instance when Kane has given in, compromised or admitted he was wrong about ANYTHING, no matter the logic of the argument. It doesn't bother me, I had my say and everyone's entitled to their opinion, however rude they may be.

He also doesn't like me, so his response was predictable, whatever rationalization he found to make it personal, and slide something in about hippies, gays, whores, etc. It means nothing. The fact that he doesn’t consider himself Christian yet is whining about it means nothing; it’s an excuse, nothing more.

I use “Christ” when referring to the man, and “Criste” or “Keeriste” or, more often, “Jezus” or whatever, and “gawd” when using them as expletives. Of course I have the right to use Christ in Christmas, everyone does. OR NOT. I think part of the reason I don’t is I resent the “mass” part of it, as well as the heavy influence of Christianity in our country...I might say the “overweening” and sometimes “oppressive” to the rest of us. There is no “Mohammedmass” or anything like that, and I do as I’m supposed to and don’t capitalize buddhist and buddhism...only Buddha’s name is supposed to be capitalized because it is a proper name. I make my decisions based on what I believe, not what someone else thinks is right or wrong...certainly not Kane!

This is an excellent thread in so many ways...that Xmas wasn’t originally what it’s called now, that Christ’s birthday wasn’t actually December 25th, that the date has become something a commercialized holiday, except for those who celebrate it AS the birth of their savior and go to mass, and that “Christ” isn’t a proper name, it’s true meaning is other than that, and that Xmas was called Xmas as early as it was.. I only knew about the date, and a bit about its previous reasons, like Solstice. So I’ve learned things today, thank you.

Personally, I like Yule, it’s a good compromise and it doesn’t refer to worshiping any god, it’s about a TIME. Think I’ll try to remember that one...it has neither a personal name in it, nor does it refer to a “mass”. Of course the government calls the holiday Christmas, because of the overwhelming number of Christians in our country, and admittedly the fact that there’s no Boxing Day, Hannuka and Kwanza are virtually unrecognized, along with any other celebration by any other religion/society is a turnoff for me. I’ve had Christianity (or their form of it) shoved down my throat far too many times to care about anyone bitching at me.

It’s ironic that he uses the government as an argument...especially as, in the other thread, I quoted about how the American government DID NOT recognize it as a holiday from the beginning. Also in that it’s used as an argument by someone who so quickly distrusts and dislikes the government. Hey, when it’s convenient...

Mostly, I know why Kane responds to me the way he does and I ignore it unless there’s some part of it I want to explain TO OTHERS. The only important things to me are all I learned from this excellent thread, and I thank you. And I hope all of you had a really nice Yuletide.

Kane, as always,

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 9:10 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Aside from all that, how did this discusion of secession turn into an argument about Yuletide because of some stupid remarks by Kane?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 1:54 PM

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Ah, well, it actually started as stupid remarks by Zit. Something about not wanting to have a serious discussion and using the excuse of drunken chirstmas times. I shouldn't have fed it, I'm sorry. However, I do think that the discussion has been an interesting one. If nothing else, I'm glad you got something out of it.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Monday, December 27, 2010 9:19 AM