Aaaand, away we go. Remember how Repulicans the country over campaigned on “jobs, jobs, jobs”? Jobs was job one, yes indeedy. What have we seen so far..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What gives?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:51
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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:16 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Aaaand, away we go. Remember how Repulicans the country over campaigned on “jobs, jobs, jobs”? Jobs was job one, yes indeedy.

What have we seen so far?
HR 1: New rules.
HR 2: Totally useless grandstand vote to repeal health care, which had no chance of ever passing.

Then they got down to brass tacks…not. HR 3: to ensure that no federal funds are spent on abortion…which they already aren’t. So they passed a bill to make illegal something that was made illegal in the health-care law (Hyde Amendment, remember?) which was ALEADY illegal before that (provisions of Roe v. Wade). Uh, huh…

Didn’t these guys campaign on “smaller government” or something?? And are these the first priority of the American people?

They said they were “abandoning” the culture war to focus on jobs, ‘cuz that’s what the American people want. Uhhh...did I miss something? Isn’t abortion “culture war”, since they’ve made it totally impossible for anyone BUT THE RICH to get abortions...

So what’s going on? All they want to do is go BACKWARDS...reverse healthcare, reverse Wall Street Reform, cut the budget back to 2008 amd 2006 levels (are they KIDDING?). That was before Bush ran it up to the sky and left us with a country in such bad shape Obama had to run it up even MORE!); take away Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...are these guys living in some kind of imaginary “Eden” of the past, or what?

Bear in mind: EVERYTHING they’ve so far claimed AND DONE helps the rich and hurts everyone else. Yes, indeedy, the people’s party...but which "people"?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:31 PM

BYTEMITE


There's a conspiracy theory me and DT talk about sometimes, that there's eugenics elements that kill off certain groups with war, but also encourage members of their own power-elite group to have abortions and commit suicide at a higher rate.

The basic gist of the theory is elites want to have small numbers to consolidate their power and so they don't have to share resources. targeted populations are killed off because they're considered unruly and uncontrollable, and the other humans will be left over to serve the elites as slaves.

H.G. Wells criticized this idea in The Time Machine, and posited the most likely outcome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eloi

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Of course they wanna go backwards, right back to Feudalism, with themselves as the Lords - it's what they've ALWAYS wanted, since day freakin one.

Right now a point of contention is Michigans item pricing law, which prevents a retailer from posting one price on the shelf and charging you a higher one at the scanner, something which is NOTORIOUS for abuse by most big-box stores in any state, only we added a proviso (almost universally ignored or unenforced) that ALL items MUST be individually price marked, AND that any difference at the scanner results in a payment of TEN TIMES the difference as a penalty - although in most cases the clerk simply corrects the price when pointed out and this penalty fee is never claimed.

Walmart has been fined repeatedly, in the millions, for deliberate, intentional, and malicious violation of this - it's a damn common trick of these thieving bastards to edge the price at scanner up just a little from the shelf price in hopes of a customer shrugging it off and paying it anyway, or not noticing (I catch them out ONLY because I have a semi-edetic memory, and it happens EVERY time, mind you) which over time does add up.

And that fucker Synder wants to let em off the hook with a nod and a wink, pissant scumbag motherfucker, and a republican besides, but I repeat myself....

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ah yes, Byte, but they forget one simple fact of the matter, it comes right down to it.

Morlocks *EAT* Eloi...



Ok, yes, I actually LIKE Krokus, tho I seem to be the only one...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:46 PM

BYTEMITE


And that's when they're not sterilizing kids with pharmaceuticals.

I took an intelligence test when I was 10, and shortly afterward the school recommended to my parents that I start seeing a psychiatrist and take SSRIs.

I'm sure THOSE two events aren't related. /snark

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:59 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Boy, Frem, I wish we had your law! I try to keep track and pay attention, but with those shelf markings rather than each thing being marked individually, I'm sure I miss a fair portion.

Once again, I am glad we have no WalMart! There's a movement afoot to keep Target out of San Rafael--they've got one a few miles up the road in Novato, why the hell do WE need one?? We're fighting it...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ah. I found an article which describes it better than I could:
Quote:

Upon assuming control of the 112th Congress, House Speaker John Boehner and fellow Republicans said they're listening to the voice of the people.

Too bad they didn't listen to Mary Poppins. She would have told them what to avoid at all costs: no pie crust promises; easily made, easily broken.

Instead, Republicans littered the floor of the Capitol with pie crust promises that were easily made during the campaign and easily broken on the very first day of the new legislative session.

Jobs. Campaigning in the midterm elections, Republicans pledged to make creation of jobs their number one priority. Instead they moved to repeal President Barack Obama's health care reform legislation. Boehner, in his inaugural remarks, did not mention job creation once.

Cut spending. The centerpiece of the Pledge to America unveiled by House Republicans in September was a promise to cut $100 billion out of nondefense discretionary spending during their first year in power: a pledge repeated by Boehner, Majority Leader Eric Cantor, and Budget Chairman Paul Ryan. All three backed off, insisting the $100 billion figure was merely hypothetical.

Work for people. Again Boehner, in his acceptance speech, renewed his oft-stated pledge to listen to the American people for a change. New Government Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa sent a letter to 150 big corporations and lobbying firms, asking them to identify which federal regulations should be canceled by Congress. Consumer and environmental protection organizations, which, in fact, represent the people, were not consulted.

Right to vote. Republicans didn't wait long to deny one more opportunity for voices of the people to be heard. The first vote of the 112th Congress adopted a rule stripping representatives of the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Marianna Islands and the Virgin Islands of their right to vote whenever Congress convened as a committee of the whole. The vote was 225 Republicans for the change, 188 Democrats against it.

But nowhere were so many promises broken as in the way Republicans leaped into their doomed-to-fail efforts to roll back the clock on health care reform.

Repeal and replace. Campaigning in the midterms, Republican House and Senate candidates left no doubt about their plans on health care. "Repeal and replace it with a common-sense solution that will bend the cost-curve," John Cornyn told "Meet the Press" in July. On opening day, Cantor introduced legislation to repeal newly-enacted health insurance reform, and replace it with nothing.

Transparency. No more log-rolling of important legislation, Boehner promised. Under his leadership, Republicans would insist on total transparency and open debate on all issues prior to any vote on the House floor. The vote to repeal health care is scheduled for Wednesday, just one week after its introduction, with no public hearings, no debate and no opportunity to offer amendments.

Pay-go. For years, Republicans wrapped themselves in the cloak of fiscal responsibility, insisting that Congress not spend one dollar unless it's offset by new taxes or spending cuts: a policy called pay as you go. They've already carved out an exemption for health care, even though the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that repeal of health care reform legislation will increase the deficit by $230 billion over the next 10 years.

At the same time, under new rules adopted by Republicans, from now on pay-go will only apply to new spending, not to new tax cuts. But not all tax cuts are exempt, only those identified as worthwhile by GOP leaders. According to the rules, extended tax cuts for the wealthy are protected. But expansion of the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit, which help middle-class and low-income families, are not.

Changing the culture. Republican Tea Party candidates, especially, campaigned on a pledge to introduce a more austere tone to Washington. GOP freshmen eagerly bellied up to the bar at the W Hotel for a lavish fundraiser, featuring country music star LeAnn Rimes, all paid for by lobbyists at $2,500 a head.

If you can't trust Republicans to keep their promises longer than one day, what can you trust them with?

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=277582

Yeah, that's about it. Do you think the righties will EVER get it? I guess not; they didn't get it the last eight years and now want to blame the Democrats for getting us IN this mess, so there's probably no hope...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:39 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

HR 3: to ensure that no federal funds are spent on abortion…which they already aren’t. So they passed a bill to make illegal something that was made illegal in the health-care law (Hyde Amendment, remember?)


If I'm understanding this correctly, if they wanted to keep federal funding of abortion illegal and repeal health care, they would have make a new law on account of throwing out the old one with the rest of the legislation right?

Also, they often claim the government reforms and intervention are hindering the economy, not helping, so they could claim to be working for job growth in that respect. I'm not saying I don't believe every one of these politicians is a 'crook' looking out for number 1 and the special interest groups that fund them, but if we're arguing ideology, they can still claim to be working towards jobs. 'Course, it'd be nice if they'd take a more direct route to that objective, but politics is politics... and I'm mostly playing devils advocate.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:47 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'll agree to disagree. Federal funding for abortions is ALREADY illegal, under provisions of Roe v. Wade. They just keep making abortions more and more impossible...for the rich. This one would make it so that NO ZPRIVATE insurance company would offer abortions under any circumstances, by tying it in to federal money.

I view it as more social manipulation, and given the health-care law couldn't possibly be repealed--wouldn't even get past the Senate if it was even brought UP--I can't cut them slack for "trying" to improve jobs. Since that's the very first thing they did out the door, and given a number of other actions by them in the recent past, sorry, I don't buy it.

ETA: By the way, Frem:
Quote:

Of course they wanna go backwards, right back to Feudalism, with themselves as the Lords - it's what they've ALWAYS wanted, since day freakin one.
That's my belief, too.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:09 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, for all the rethugs and their collaboratin bootlickers hated Jenny, she did a DAMNED lot of good things for our state, often in the face of rabid, and many times downright illegal, resistance from those punks...

I am sore gonna miss her, especially as this state is now in the hands of the same scum who think DeVos was a viable candidate, Erik Prince is the second coming of Joan of Arc, and all those other tremendous, self-destructive delusions, no matter what unfortunate realities (that they are never subject to, in their ivory towers) have to say about it.

And I shall be a thorn to their side, a knife to their spine, and a burr to their hide, be it one Fremdfirma, or another, forever and ever.

-Frem

IDEAS ARE BULLETPROOF!

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:42 PM

DREAMTROVE


But frem, they see themselves as the Morlock. Also, the morlock become extinct long before the Eloi.

I think that HG Wells was making commentary, I know he was part of that crowd, but unlike Shaw I think that he didn't think it was possible, that it would end in dystopic disaster. That's maybe the difference between a scifi view and a polisci one.

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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

They said they were “abandoning” the culture war to focus on jobs, ‘cuz that’s what the American people want. Uhhh...did I miss something? Isn’t abortion “culture war”, since they’ve made it totally impossible for anyone BUT THE RICH to get abortions...





Perhaps the greatest display of how disconnected you are with reality.

Wow.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:23 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
HR 2: Totally useless grandstand vote to repeal health care, which had no chance of ever passing.


I note for the record that the Health Care Repeal passed with overwhelming numbers and was far more bi-partisan then Obamacare was.

Republicans in the House did their part. They have no control of the Senate, if Reid is too much of a pussy to allow a vote, that's all on him, just another Democrat ignoring the will of the people.

As for Obama, if the House and Senate passed the repeal, he'd sign it. He might bluster and preen, but he'd sign it and take credit for it.

Lastly I note that even though its called Obamacare, he didn't write it. They were going to call it Pelosicare, but the focus group killed its moderator when asked whether that was something they'd get behind and support.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:05 AM

DREAMTROVE


Skipping that Roe v Wade d fact IS just a return to Dred Scott, and that it is also a eugenics program, its also a wedge issue.

Fact is, abortion is almost exclusively elective surgery, and elective surgery is never covered by the fed, govt.

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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

As for Obama, if the House and Senate passed the repeal, he'd sign it. He might bluster and preen, but he'd sign it and take credit for it.


I believe it will come up for a vote in the Senate, and in the un-likely event that it passes, Obama will veto it with much bravura. He'll never sign any repeal legislation, even if some Dem. senators up for re-election vote with Republicans on it. He'll use the veto, and he'll use the issue with new energized vigor as a central theme for his re-election.



Quote:

Lastly I note that even though its called Obamacare, he didn't write it. They were going to call it Pelosicare, but the focus group killed its moderator when asked whether that was something they'd get behind and support.

It's called The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. With a name like that, how can it possibly be bad?









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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nice try Hero, but pretty pathetic. Of COURSE the vote to repeal was bigger than the vote to put it in place in the first place: THERE ARE MORE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE NOW. Duh. That’s a ridiculous argument. The repeal vote was 245-189. The vote to put it in place originally was was 220 to 207. To try and make the argument that the vote in favor of repeal was bigger is a truly sad try, given the Republicans voted unanimously against it both times, given Republicans now hold the majority!

Three Democrats voted for repeal; it’s obvious why they did, as their seats are coming up for election and they’re afraid if they voted against it, they’d lose. “Overwhelming majority” is a scam, and “far more bipartisan” is too, given only three Democrats voted for it and those did so for political reasons, not because they think it should be repealed.

On the other hand, support for repeal has gone DOWN among Americans. Now that it’s in place, many people are finding out how valuable it is and don’t want it repealed. Strong opposition to the law stands at 30 percent, close to the lowest level registered in surveys dating to September 2009.

Polls find that 40 percent of those surveyed said they support the law, while 41 percent oppose it. Just after the November congressional elections, opposition stood at 47 percent and support was 38 percent. As for repeal, only about one in four say they want to do away with the law completely. Among Republicans support for repeal has dropped sharply, from 61 percent after the elections to 49 percent now. Didn’t the Repubs keep saying they were going to work for “what the American people want”?

The Democrats aren’t happy with some of it and were willing to revise it, but the Republicans were determined to trash the whole thing and “start from scratch”. We all know what THAT means.

As for Republicans having “done their job”, no, they certainly did not. They cost the taxpayers money and Congress time in voting for something EVERYONE knew had no chance in hell of passing, and they only did it to grandstand, so that people like you would say “well, they did their job”. It’s not fear that keeps it from going forward in the Senate, it’s common sense, because yes, of COURSE Obama would veto it; it’s the prize accomplishment of his Presidency! Again, it’s only people like you who look at the cost of money and time and think it had a chance to go anywhere out of Congress. So their trick worked, for some people.

Oh, by the way, the individual mandate started out as a Republican idea during an earlier health care debate in the 1990s. Just so’s you know. They’re only against it NOW because their entire aim is to get rid of Obama; it shows in everything they do. They’ve said as much. They’re not working for the “American people” anymore and almost universally HAVEN’T been since Obama came into office. They are strategically and quite obviously trying to make the country WORSE OFF in order to get in power; at one time I was aghast to contemplate they’d actually do such a thing, but after watching their actions for two years now, I’m convinced. It sickens me. They call it Obamacare for the same reason. Pelosi was useful to point to, but their focus is Obama, pure and simple.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


And yes, DT, for that reason among others, it's already impossible for federal money to be spent on abortions.

If I'm disagreed with that only those who can afford to pay out of pocket for abortions will be able to get them, prove me wrong. Abortions ain't cheap, any more than ANY medical treatment not covered by health insurance (well, they're still abysmally expensive, it's just that for those who can get health care, the insurance company pays the majority...unless they consider it a pre-existing condition, cut off health care to even those who have been paying their premiums all along, or find some other way to avoid paying).

As a result, only the rich can afford them. Also, given STATES have done everything possible to make them unattainable, only those who can afford it can travel to other states...in every way, it's been made impossible for the poor, and even many of the middle class, to get them.

Also, insofar as it prevents some of the abuses by the health insurance companies, it IS a Patient Protection act, and given it lets people keep their kids on it and with other provisions makes it possible to buy health insurance for those who cannot now, it's also an Affordable Care Act

There is a LOT wrong with it; but rather than keep the good and work on getting rid of the bad, the Republicans are determined to at least make a SHOW of wanting to get rid of the whole thing...without, by the way, putting forth ANY details on what THEY'D do for health care if they did manage to repeal it.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Okay, I take back the "most of the left doesn't like the bill" comment.

o.0

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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Lol

Niki, just let it go.

The American people have realized that progressivism, socialism, communism, nation socialism JUST ISN'T for US.

Better to sit back and watch as we climb back up the stairs to our own self-determination than whine.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:30 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


America vs Obama, the British/European Way, and finally against the hardcore republican (who still thinks we need "masters")



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:40 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


In the end tho..

The spirit of the little guy returns us to whom and where we were meant to be.

And no matter the enemy.. Pelosi, the rinos, whatever....

They will not stop us. :)



PS: Not that I think anyone would catch it... but there IS a reason I chose these videos. He's using the bones of the elephants, to defeat the enemy.

Hmm... like the Tea Party, Constituionalist, wrestling back the ideals of the republic to help save things. To beat the loud-talking, fake-strong, rino representative...

Man, I'm good.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:57 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

The American people have realized that progressivism, socialism, communism, nation socialism JUST ISN'T for US.


Don't be so sure on that. With half of Americans paying no Federal income tax, and about a third getting some sort of Govt assistance, what makes you believe these people will ever not support Democrats? That's a pretty huge built-in advantage they have over Republicans even before votes are taken. Yes I was encouraged by the recent election, but I'm not so naive to believe the trend will continue. Independents are generally an ill-informed and unpredictabe bunch, tending to swing where the current popular propaganda breeze blows. They decide elections now. Whether America goes down the European socialism road is still a very realistic possibilty.








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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 8:59 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Call me an optimist.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


JS made the response for me on that one.

I don't "whine", Wulf; that is, unless you consider everyone who attacks the left as "whining" too. You whine far more often in your attacks on hippies, "libtards", etc., if you want to look at it that way.

The only thing that bothers me is your simplistic view of things, and your constant reiteration that we're "on the right track" now and that the American people have "awakened", when it's patently obvious that's not the case and I know the pendulum will always swing back and forth, as it just did after Bush and did again because Americans are scared when it comes to their own lives and jobs. It somewhat gets to me, that you see EVERYTHING in such black-and-white terms.

I don't watch your videos, so I don't know what point, if any, you think they are making. I respond to your WORDS, nothing else. I find your continual use of videos to be nothing more than a reflection of your prefering to see good and bad guys, despite the fact that real life is far more complex than that. I certainly don't find you an optimist!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:17 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"...not the case and I know the pendulum will always swing back and fort"

This is why you fail.

The constant swinging back and forth has made us weak. It has distracted us, detracted from us, and allowed for tyranny.

Its time that it must stop.

For example. Being spied upon. Both parties love that idea. But the people don't want it.

Gun control. On the left whines about it, the right wants it when they are the target. The people don't want it.

Federal spending. Both parties love it when they are the ones doing it. But the people dont want it.




"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:51 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That's what makes me sad for you. The pendulum in the whole world has swung back and forth, and always will, not just us. It's the way of humans, and it's not going to change until HUMANS change, for which I'm not holding my breath.

Look around the world. People get unhappy with the way their government is being run and (in countries where they CAN), they vote the opposite. Things don't get better, they'll vote back the original way again.

What exactly do you base your belief on that it will ever change? Have you seen ANY sign that it could? I don't mean the most recent election...that was the pendulum swinging away from Obama and the Dems 'cuz they didn't fix things fast enough...it swung to bring Obama into office, and on and on back through time. Recognizing what IS rather than what SHOULD BE is living in the real world.

As to gun rights, you're seeing things through your own wishes yet again. The pendulum has always swung on THAT, too. At the moment:



Quote:

The poll finds that 46 percent of Americans think gun laws should be made stricter, while 38 percent want them to stay the same. Thirteen percent said they thought gun control laws should be made less strict.

In a similar poll conducted in April 2010, 40 percent of Americans thought gun laws should be made tougher, while 42 percent wanted them to stay the same. Sixteen percent wanted them to be made less strict.

Public support for a nationwide ban on assault weapons has risen. Sixty-three percent of voters said they would support such a ban, up from 54 percent in 2009.

In 1998, 6.73% said yes to "Should the U.S. have stricter gun control laws?" and 93.25% said no. ( http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20029126-503544.html)

In 1997:
Quote:

Two-thirds of the adults surveyed said the laws covering the sale of handguns should be stricter and 27 percent said the laws should be kept as they are now. Only 5 percent said the laws should be less strict.

This question has been asked in the past with similar results. In August 1999, a CBS News poll taken almost four months after the shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado, 64 percent said laws covering the sale of handguns should be stricter. Men and women are equally in favor of making the sale of handguns more difficult. Three-quarters of Democrats support stricter handgun laws, compared with about half of Republicans and 60 percent of independents.

The public does not support banning handguns altogether, the poll found. Thirty-two percent of the public approves of a ban on the sale of handguns, with the exception of thoseneeded for law enforcement, with 64 percent opposed.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/23/poll-on-gun-control/

But please, let's not start on gun control again, I'm just making the point that flat statements about what "The American people want" don't work, because what the American people want CHANGES.

ETA: Spying on Americans. In 2006:
Quote:

Consider the New York Times/CBS poll. Sixty-four percent of the respondents have concerns about losing civil liberties as a result of anti-terrorism measures put in place by President Bush. Yet, 53 percent approve of spying without obtaining court warrants "in order to reduce the threat of terrorism."
http://www.rense.com/general69/pollsmanyamericans.htm

2005:
Quote:

A new Rasmussen poll reveals that 64% of Americans believe the National Security Agency should be allowed to intercept such conversations, including 51% of Democrats & 57% of independents. Fewer than 1 in 4 actually opposed the idea.
http://www.newshounds.us/2005/12/29/grapevine_whine_spying_on_american
s_isnt_really_spying.php


People were scared--then of terrorism, like now of the economy--and reacted this way. It all changes, depending on circumstances. It always will.

Caveat: As usual, you can find a poll to support about anything if you look hard enough. I didn't; these were on the first page of Google.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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