REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What is food?

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Saturday, February 12, 2011 01:54
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Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:12 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



Another Rumsfeld Disease

A diet-soda stroke? Study says zero-calories equals risk

A study described at the American Stroke Association's International Stroke Conference concluded there could negative consequences associated with consuming too many sugar substitutes, including a higher risk of vascular events.

CNN reports salt intake was also associated with a higher risk of stroke.

Still, the study is controversial. Some point out that participants reported how much diet soda they consumed voluntarily, meaning results don't stem from a controlled setting.

"There is no scientific evidence to support the idea that diet soda uniquely causes increased risk of vascular events or stroke," the American Beverage Association said in a statement.

Researchers used voluntary participants to examine factors related to stroke and heart attacks. About 900 particpants at said they drank no diet soda, and about 160 said they consumed more than one diet soda every day.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/archives/238958.asp

Diet Soda: Fewer Calories, Greater Stroke Risk

New research that links diet soda consumption with an increased risk of heart attack and stroke has doctors urging caution about the controversial and preliminary results.

According to a study of more than 2,500 people presented today as a poster at the American Stroke Association International Stroke Conference in Los Angeles, people who drank diet soda daily had a 61 percent increased risk of cardiovascular events compared to those who drank no soda, even when accounting for smoking, physical activity, alcohol consumption and calories consumed per day.


"This study suggests that diet soda is not an optimal substitute for sugar-sweetened beverages, and may be associated with a greater risk of stroke," Hannah Gardener of the University of Miami and her colleagues reported at the conference.

But the questionnaire-based study garnered criticism by experts in diet, nutrition and vascular disease.

"This study has major flaws and should not change anyone's diet soda consumption," said ABC News Chief Health and Medical Editor Dr. Richard Besser.

The researchers used data obtained though the multi-ethnic, population-based Northern Manhattan Study to examine risk factors for stroke, heart attack and other vascular events such as blood clots in the limbs. While 901 participants reported drinking no soda at the start of the study, 163 said they drank one or more diet sodas per day.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HeartHealth/diet-soda-linked-heart-attack
-stroke-risk/story?id=12868269



Aspartame produced by GMO E.coli excrement parodied by Futurama "Slurm" to indoctrinate US
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread541451/pg1


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Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:43 AM

DREAMTROVE


If you take aspartame you're voluntarily selecting yourself for extinction. This was told to me by one of the scientists who was on the team that developed aspartame.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:37 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

The artificial sweetener aspartame has been the subject of several scientific controversies and a conspiracy theory since its initial approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1974. The FDA approval of aspartame was highly contested,[1] with critics alleging that the quality of the initial research supporting its safety was inadequate and flawed and that conflicts of interest marred the approval of aspartame.[2][3][4] Additionally, past and present critics have postulated that numerous health risks (such as increased rates of cancer or neurological conditions such as migraine) may be associated with the consumption of aspartame. These health risk claims have been examined and generally dismissed by major health and food safety organizations.[2][5][6]

In 1987, the U.S. Government Accountability Office concluded that the food additive approval process had been followed properly for aspartame.[2][7] Aspartame has been found to be safe for human consumption by more than ninety countries worldwide,[8][9] with FDA officials claiming, in a 1999 FDA Consumer article, that aspartame is "one of the most thoroughly tested and studied food additives the agency has ever approved" and its safety as "clear cut".[10] The weight of existing scientific evidence indicates that aspartame is safe as a non-nutritive sweetener when not consumed in excessive amounts.[5]

The controversy over aspartame safety originated in perceived irregularities in the aspartame approval process during the 1970s and early 1980s, including allegations of conflicts of interest and claims that aspartame producer G.D. Searle had withheld and falsified safety data. In 1996, the controversy reached a wider audience with a 60 Minutes report[1] that discussed criticisms of the FDA approval process and concerns that aspartame could cause brain tumors in humans. The 60 Minutes special stated that "aspartame's approval was one of the most contested in FDA history."[1] Around the same time, one of myriad Usenet emails authored by Betty Martini was possibly slightly altered (but still largely identical with originals) and then widely circulated under the pen name "Nancy Markle", creating the basis for a misleading and unverifiable hoax chain letter that was spread through the Internet.[6] "Ultimately the e-mail was traced back to Betty Martini."[11] Martini claims that an unknown person stood behind the "Markle" email.[12] Numerous websites have spread the email's claims about safety issues purportedly linked to aspartame, including Gulf War Syndrome and lupus, which are not backed by scientific evidence.[13]...

...An elaborate hoax conspiracy theory disseminated on many Internet websites attributes a host of deleterious medical effects to aspartame. This theory claims that the FDA approval process of aspartame was tainted[24][6][25] and cites as its source an email based upon a supposed talk by a "Nancy Markle" (whose existence has never been confirmed) at a "World Environmental Conference."[24][6][26] Specifically, the hoax websites allege that aspartame is responsible for multiple sclerosis, systemic lupus, and methanol toxicity, causing "blindness, spasms, shooting pains, seizures, headaches, depression, anxiety, memory loss, birth defects" and death.[27]

The "Markle" email was a largely identical version of myriad messages posted by Betty Martini to Usenet newsgroups in late 1995 and early 1996 about her claimed talk at a "World Environmental Conference".[6] Martini claims that an unknown person combined her original letter with other information and redistributed it as "Nancy Markle".[12][28] "Ultimately the e-mail was traced back to Betty Martini."[11]

Martini believes that there is a conspiracy between the FDA and the producers of aspartame, and her conspiracy theory (repeated by "Markle") has become a canonical example discussed on several Internet conspiracy theory and urban legend websites.[6][29] Although most of the allegations of this theory contradict the bulk of medical evidence,[24] this misinformation has spread around the world as chain emails since mid-December 1998,[6] influencing many websites[29] as an urban legend that continues to scare consumers.[24]

The dissemination of the "Nancy Markle" letter was considered so notable that the Media Awareness Network featured one version of it in a tutorial on how to determine the credibility of a web page. The tutorial implied that the "Markle" letter was not credible and stated that it should not be used as an authoritative source of information.[27]

Dean Edell warned very strongly against the "Markle" letter:

"A highly inaccurate "chain letter" is being circulated via e-mail warning the reader of the health dangers of aspartame (Nutrasweet) diet drinks. There is so much scientific untruth in it, it’s scary. Be careful, because others know how to manipulate you by this. Just because something is beyond your comprehension doesn’t mean it is scientific. The e-mail is outrageous enough to state that the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation is suing the FDA for collusion with Monsanto.... Bogus, totally bogus. You’ve got to be careful of these Internet hoaxes. When you read health information online, be sure to know the source of the information you are reading, okay?[30]



This is just from a quick wiki search. The only health risk I have found is

Quote:

Upon ingestion, aspartame breaks down into natural residual components, including aspartic acid, phenylalanine, methanol,[21] and further breakdown products including formaldehyde[22] and formic acid, accumulation of the latter being suspected as the major cause of injury in methanol poisoning. Human studies show that formic acid is excreted faster than it is formed after ingestion of aspartate. In some fruit juices, higher concentrations of methanol can be found than the amount produced from aspartame in beverages.[9]

High levels of the naturally-occurring essential amino acid phenylalanine are a health hazard to those born with phenylketonuria (PKU), a rare inherited disease that prevents phenylalanine from being properly metabolized. Since individuals with PKU must consider aspartame as an additional source of phenylalanine, foods containing aspartame sold in the United States must state "Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine" on their product labels.[23]

In the UK, foods that contain aspartame are legally required by the country's Food Standards Agency to list the chemical among the product's ingredients and carry the warning "Contains a source of phenylalanine" – this is usually at the foot of the list of ingredients. Manufacturers are also required to print '"with sweetener(s)" on the label close to the main product name' on foods that contain "sweeteners such as aspartame" or "with sugar and sweetener(s)" on "foods that contain both sugar and sweetener".[24]



What specifically leads you to believe aspartame is our extinction? If you can send a link our quote (specifics) your source I would like to read it.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:09 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yeah, artificial chemicals are problematic. I can understand using them for medicines. I can also understand that we all injest them, I mean I'm a cherry koolaid junky so I'm not going to say that no one should have any chemicals, that would be hypocritical. But I guess we have to accept the risks if we're going to drink them just for fun. I don't drink pop at all, so I'm not too worried about this particular one. But yeah, artificial chemicals, you've got to decide for yourself what you're willing to injest.

They say that diet is worse for you in the longrun than regular pop.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:01 PM

DREAMTROVE


Happy,

It wasn't an argument, I was quoting a member of the original team. Something he said when he was at my house.

Since then the only thing I've seen is a pronounced memory loss among long term users comparable to that of marijuana, maybe a worse.

It also seems obvious that the brain is being tricked into thinking its getting glucose which it isn't, and so that can cause problems, but I really wasn't up for an argument.

My basic rules of food:

1) Food should make as few changes as possible after coming out of the ground before going in your mouth

2) Food is only used by the human body if it was present during our evolution because it was in the diet of our ancestors: Ape, Monkey, Mouse, Salamander, Shark. That's a complete list of your ancestors more or less.

3) The diet should be varied among those things that your ancestors might have eaten, and balanced between fat, protein and carbs.

4) It should not contain anything which is not food, such as processed foods, chemical additives, or things not found in common omnivore diets such as red meat, or grass. The former will have unpredictable binding effects which will disrupt our systems; the latter will contain nothing unique that we can digest.

This argument is not scientific, it is logical, and can be derived from a simple knowledge of biology and evolution. If you follow the natural path, you're in balance with your evolutionary path. If not, you are taking a gamble.

The reason I reposted the comment was because I knew the guy, and I thought it curious that he would say such a thing, but posting my own philosophy on foods in general, I have to say, I agree. So far I don't see hazards in sucralose, but if its creators were to tell me so, I would be tempted to believe them.

A similar incident happened when I was very small, when a scientist from Dupont came to discuss teflon. He said he himself would only eat food cooked with cast iron.

Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Yeah, artificial chemicals are problematic. I can understand using them for medicines. I can also understand that we all injest them, I mean I'm a cherry koolaid junky so I'm not going to say that no one should have any chemicals, that would be hypocritical. But I guess we have to accept the risks if we're going to drink them just for fun. I don't drink pop at all, so I'm not too worried about this particular one. But yeah, artificial chemicals, you've got to decide for yourself what you're willing to injest.

They say that diet is worse for you in the longrun than regular pop.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Yes, this is exactly it. We take a risk. In medicine, I always weigh the opposing risk. This is one reason I refuse to take pain killers. The risk is pain? I can live with that. I refuse most medicines too. It's when the risk is brain damage, organ damage or death if I *don't* take it, that I consider it, look it up, and see if the risks of the medication are less, and if they aren't, then I look around online for alternatives.

Most often I find my own treatments. I would recommend everyone learn the subject so they can do the same. It would be nice if everyone could have a doctor like Phoenix Rose's, but that's pretty rare.

But when it comes to food additives, why bother? I mean, the gain is nothing, and the risk is anywhere from unknown (surcalose) or known (aspartame) to lethal (nicotine), so I don't see the risk/reward ratio because I don't see the reward. It almost makes more sense to me to take opium, at least you know then what the upside is ;)

(I hope everyone can spot the flaw in this logic.)

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:11 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Oh, well, I don't really have a position on the aspartame issue, I just don't know much about it and was curious. I quick internet search seemed to reveal the aspartame dangers as a hoax outside of those born with phenylketonuria.

Far as it's uses, I know a few diabetics who cannot drink regular soda or sweet tea, so the use diet soda or sweeten their tea with aspartame. I've taken to drinking diet sodas to reduce my calorie intake somewhat and because I am often the guest of a diabetic who has diet sodas and artificially sweetened tea as the only beverages 'sides water. I'm not fooling myself into thinking it's 'healthy' because it's 'diet' but if there is real evidence that suggest it actually can be hazardous to your health, I'd be very curious.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:04 PM

DREAMTROVE


aspartame people have been hard at work then. aspartame memory loss is severe and has been repeatedly proven. Anecdotally, I know a couple. They're more out of it than chronic stoners. You can tell them the same story every day and it never gets old, and there was wrong with them before. It's well established. I don't recommend high carb sodas, I think probably skipping or limiting soda consumption is the best action

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:41 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quick correction, the tea is actually sweetened with Sucralose (splenda) and not aspartame.

I hate to act like my least favorite RWEDers and pretend I know everything about your argument and intentions, but it sounds like what you're saying is 'I know some guys and they say this or act like this so aspartame is the short bus to extinction.' So just don't do it cause some guy said it's bad, 'kay? I mean ya don't need it to survive. There's nothing wrong with basing your own decisions on that, but it's not very convincing (but I'm not assuming your trying to convince or make anyone's decisions for them.)

I understand you may not feel like an argument, and I don't wanna force you into one, I'm just curious. I looked up aspartame on the American Cancer Society's website and found this.

Quote:

FDA Approval

In 1981, after careful review, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the use of aspartame. It was then used in many foods, such as cold breakfast cereals, chewing gum, dry drink mixes, instant tea and coffee, gelatins, puddings, fillings, non-dairy toppings, and as a tabletop sweetener. It was approved in 1983 for use in carbonated beverages and carbonated beverage syrups. Today it is found in even more food products.
How Much Aspartame is Safe?
Who Decides Safe Levels?

Two units of the United Nations, the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), through their Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA), recommend Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) levels for many food additives. The ADI is the amount of an additive that, if eaten every day for the rest of a person’s life, would be considered safe. In the US, the FDA sets ADI guidelines.
How Much is Safe?

Animal studies in the 1970s found that rats could eat 4 grams of aspartame per kilogram of body weight without showing health problems. To be safe, the JECFA divided this dose by 100, and set the Acceptable Daily Intake of aspartame for humans at 40 milligrams per kilogram of body weight.

The FDA, now has stated that the acceptable daily intake of aspartame for humans is 50 milligrams per kilogram of body weight.

This is equivalent to 3500 milligrams per day for a typical 70-kilogram (about 150 pounds) adult, far more than most adults take in daily. For comparison, a can of diet soft drink contains about 180 milligrams of aspartame. So a typical adult could drink 19 cans of diet soft drink each day before going over the recommended level. A 30-kilogram (66 pounds) child would have to drink more than 8 cans of diet soda daily to reach the ADI for aspartame.
Does Aspartame Cause Cancer?

Soon after aspartame was introduced to the market, its safety was questioned. Its role in cancer risk has been widely debated over the last few decades. Concerns still exist today and studies continue to look at the safety of aspartame and other artificial sweeteners.

As recently as April 2007, the FDA released this statement: " Considering results from the large number of studies on aspartame's safety, including five previously conducted negative chronic carcinogenicity studies, a recently reported large epidemiology study with negative associations between the use of aspartame and the occurrence of tumors, and negative findings from a series of three transgenic mouse assays, FDA finds no reason to alter its previous conclusion that aspartame is safe as a general purpose sweetener in food."
What Do the Experts Say?

Aspartame has been approved for use as a sweetener by the FDA and by the Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives of the United Nations Food and Agricultural Organization, and the World Health Organization. They have concluded that aspartame does not cause cancer or other adverse health effects in the general population. Though research into a possible link between aspartame and cancer continues, no study to date has had results that change this conclusion.
Does Aspartame Cause Any Other Health Problems?
Phenylketonuria (PKU)

. People born with a rare genetic disorder called phenylketonuria or PKU cannot break down (metabolize) the amino acid phenylalanine. This amino acid occurs naturally and is found in aspartame. PKU is usually detected in babies by a routine blood test at birth. People with the disorder are placed on a phenylalanine-restricted diet and must avoid aspartame.



So far I haven't found anything associating aspartame with illnesses, memory loss, etc... that seemed remotely credible. If you or anyone else have any evidence other than hearsay concerning this, I would be very interested in reading it, as I consume diet sodas fairly regular like.

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Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:11 PM

BYTEMITE


So do I, but I'm operating under no illusion that it's all that safe.

it's a matter of toxicology. What they define as safe doesn't necessarily mean "no risk." Risk is an inherent part of toxicology, as is dose. All the information you presented just claims what they've decided on a dose that does not cause an undue number of side-effects in an average population, according to a select number of studies with results they approve of.

This dose is of course estimated from studies with some sample size, where the sample may or may not be fully representative of the entire population. Some people may be more or less susceptible to the toxicology of a particular chemical. There are also limitations to the amount of research they can put into long term exposure in such studies.

I also note that all of the organizations named have non-scientist administrations, meaning they can and do make decisions on passing certain substances based on politics and lobbying. Sometimes even to the point of rejecting the results of studies that were well set up simply because it disagrees with policy.

For the specific dangers of aspartame, you'd have to get into the chemistry and biochemistry of it, which I can't claim to know well.

But frankly, if the vagueness and lack of data in the quotation you posted doesn't make you suspicious, you're not paranoid enough. The thing is pretty full of Orwellian double speak and euphemism if you know how to spot it.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 2:12 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Happy,

Wikipedia is the mouthpiece of the Mainstream. Mainstream says diet soda is ok, Wikipedia is not going to say any different. So when you want dissenting info, you gotta look elsewhere.

Here are some summaries of alternative views of aspartame. I'm not endorsing everything on these sites as true and gospel. But they are good jumping points for further research.

http://aspartame.mercola.com/

http://www.sweetpoison.com/articles/0706/aspartame_symptoms_submit.htm
l


http://www.321recipes.com/aspartame.html

Aspartame is not just in sodas. It is in cereal and jello and dried fruit and hot chocolate. It isn't even limited to things labeled "diet." Recently, I bought jello that had sugar listed as its primary ingredient, to be followed a few ingredients down by aspartame. I have no idea why they would put both in, but it goes to show one must read labels carefully.

I have a few philosophies on processed food.

1. Ingredient list must be short and should not contain "mystery" items, whose composition or effects I don't know. Like Red Dye # 40? What exactly is in that? Mystery, see?

2. Boycott Monsanto Rule: Never buy anything with ingredients invented by Monsanto. Aspartame was invented by Monsanto.

3. On the rare occasion we consume "bad" stuff, we limited it to small doses.



-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM

DREAMTROVE


Happy

1) I wasn't making the statement, I was quoting one of the scientists.

2) Don't have to look far to find aspartame memory loss, google aspartame memory loss.

3) Sucralose is a different kettle of fish, so far all that's been determined is a decrease in immune response, but that may be a side effect of not enough glucose, rather than a direct result of sucralose.

4) Why take any of this if you don't have to? That's what makes me figure David who said the above line, has a point. It's like saying "well, does consuming lead really hurt me? Why don't I just add a little lead to my food... I'll be okay. Maybe, I don't know, but why do it at all?

If you feel you need a sweetener, stop eating. Overeating makes you require overstimulation in order to accept food. If you were consuming less food, everything would taste good to you. This is part of what fasting is about, it resets the body's sensitivity to food.

If you never take a break, then you get less and less sensitive, and you start consuming more and more fats and sugars, because they have flavor, and you find yourself with McDonald's french fries: Deep fat fried and dipped in sugar. A potato should taste like food, and if it doesn't, without these radical and unhealthy modifications, then you have become desensitized.


CTS

Yes and no. A couple years ago it was revealed that 90% of all edits were made by 1400 people. It's not that the system is run as a conspiracy, but that it is easily manipulated by people with an agenda. That's why Wikipedia will tend to be very good where there is no agenda, like the topic "Moons of Saturn" and be very inaccurate when it hits agenda central, like "Bill Clinton" No one who has anything to say about Clinton is neutral on the topic. The Clintonistas are notorious for protecting the entry, but I haven't been there in a while. For years it read that Bill Clinton was essentially the Son of God.


Byte,

It's rare to say, but yeah, there are a couple of us who aren't paranoid enough Give him time, with us, and he'll get there.


Oh, and CTS it's now commonly in vitamins.



ETA: Case in point. I take a protein supplement which I find almost intolerable. It has sucralose, but I haven't found a protein as well balanced as this, so I'm torn. In order to take it, I have to mix it with an equal portion of unsweetened powdered chocolate (hersheys*). If I don't, it's too sweet to even try. The problem is that it contains soy, which tastes like food to me, and whey, which is itself a sweetener, even though it's protein. So, already, protein supplements are a little too sweet, and need a little chocolate to tone them down. The Sucralose is a demonic overkill. It has no reason to be there. It's like pouring maple syrup on your twinkies.

This is something to watch out for, different companies use different processes, which can result in extreme chemical contamination. Check your chocolate and coffee and any food make throroughly

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:57 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
It's not that the system is run as a conspiracy, but that it is easily manipulated by people with an agenda.

Not saying it's a conspiracy. Just saying there is an agenda, a Mainstream agenda. Those 1400 people? Mainstream spokespeople.

My point is simply this: Want alternative views on "truth"? Gotta go elsewhere.

-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Friday, February 11, 2011 4:41 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Aspartame, wood alcohol and formaldehyde are safe for all Libtards and Republicons. Drink up!


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Friday, February 11, 2011 5:59 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Not much time right now, but here is a quick reply.

Thanks for giving me something to read CTS. I've read the first one, and it at least seems to be arguing more intelligently, but I wish it had more details on the 'key enzymes which make it safe for animals but less safe for humans.' Also, this article, and likely the others, may very well be biased in the other direction, but it sounds a hell of a lot more like the science than what my google search turned up. Still, I'd note that in concentrates on the individual components of aspartame and how they can be dangerous in large amounts. From what I understand, no one disputes that, but it is claimed the amounts found within typical aspartame flavored beverages are not dangerous unless you consume over 19 cans a day and as long as it is stored below 86 degrees it does not separate into dangerous toxins.

DT, when I did my googling all found were personal accounts like this Navy woman claiming she used to have a great memory in high school but when she went back to college she found classes were harder, so she stopped drinking aspartame flavored beverages and her memory improved in two weeks. Hardly scientific...

I'll read those other links later, but if this 'key enzyme' is missing in humans and the conservative measurement of 1/100th proportionally as compared to what was safe in mice is unsafe for humans, you'll have me convinced.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 6:24 AM

DREAMTROVE


happy

That's odd. The first three results I got were all conclusive studies.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 6:46 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
happy

That's odd. The first three results I got were all conclusive studies.

Do us a favor and link to them then!

:)

-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:29 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Oh, and CTS it's now commonly in vitamins.


Another scary thing about vitamins: most mainstream vitamins now come with an psychotropic agent in them.

I'm serious. It's called inositol. Wikipedia calls it "natural and widespread, but not a classic sugar," I'm not sure how true that is.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 AM

DREAMTROVE


Okay, this took more time than I wanted to spend, but just for CTS, though I think Happy should read through this.

Okay, I don't have a lot of time, I'm running out the door to my sisters, and I have no interest in arguing the topic, so I haven't read these, they just looked conclusive from my search, but here are the results that I get. (Note, my search results are altered by my personal search cookies, and effect the results, happy won't get the same links)

(some of these look kooky. There were about twice as many, but I removed duplicate pages.)

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/opinions/4232/

http://www.nationalcaregivinginstitute.org/display_article.asp?Art_ID=
51


http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/recent.html

http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/nutrasweet_scandal.htm

http://aspartame.mercola.com/

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html

http://www.healthstatus.com/health_blog/2007/03/06/is-aspartame-linked
-to-memory-loss
/

Here's the supposed discredited letter:

http://www.mcmanweb.com/diet_coke.html

Someone else's anecdotal story from a blog
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1570665/aspartamenutrasweet_a
nd_memory_loss.html


pro-aspartame sites I got:
This one cite is a dead link for their FDA study.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

Snopes (sorry, it was a search result, so it's included)
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp

(I hate snopes. their arrogant "False" is like mythbusters. No, we don't need a reason, we just deny anything that wasn't said by the media. Check out Snopes on 9.11. Phooey, I don't have the link, but it was pretty insulting.)

Wikipedia says it's controversial conspiracy hoax:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

I have serious problems with this.

1) I happen to personally know multiple aspartame amnesiacs. In fact, everyone I know who heavily consumed diet sodas shows pronounced memory loss, as I said, on a par with that of a heavy pot smoker, or more.

2) If some of the opponents of nutrasweet look like they lack credibility, check out some of the proponents.

3) If there's a controversy that maybe it will eat your brain and maybe it won't, then the best possible outcome would be "It's not eating my brain." I'm sorry, for something which provides no added nutrient value, I look for something more in my food than "It's not eating my brain."

But I'm pretty sure it is eating your brain.

It's not as bas as having fracking fluid in dumped into my water supply, but the situation on reporting is exactly the same. The people say "It eats my brain" and the MSM is like "No, it doesn't eat your brain" which is the best they can do. But it ate my sister's brain, and three other people I know now. One died, so it's only eating three brains I know.

You have to apply a little skepticism to the mainstream viewpoint: They're selling the product, they have a vested interest in you believing its safe.

As for sucralose, the only thing I would suggest is that if you have to consume it, make sure that doing so does not decrease your normal intake of sucrose. Aspartame? I'd skip it.

If at all possible, skip all processed foods.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:36 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

typical aspartame flavored beverages are not dangerous unless you consume over 19 cans a day and as long as it is stored below 86 degrees it does not separate into dangerous toxins.


Additional note. This is anecdotal. If you get cola from a fountain, getting refills from the same cup for a long period of time will result in a noticeably sweet residue building up on the side of the cup. I'm pretty sure that is aspartame.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:39 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Another scary thing about vitamins: most mainstream vitamins now come with an psychotropic agent in them.

I'm serious. It's called inositol. Wikipedia calls it "natural and widespread, but not a classic sugar," I'm not sure how true that is.



I'm dubious of the dangers of Inositol, I'm very familiar with the compound. It's a massive multiple oh- donor, which is a free radical, but the result is GABA promotion, which means it's a sedative. Chemically, it's an alcohol, and not that much different from alcohol, given my druthers, I'd consume alcohol. But that said, I don't see that some inositol in my vitamin is going to do me any more damage than the alcohol that my ginseng extract is suspended in. By weight inositol is 8 times as potent as regular alcohol, but consider how much inositol you're actually consuming. The result is less alcohol than is in the vanilla of a chocolate chip cookie.

But still, good research. It's good to catch these things. It doesn't bug me, but people should know what is in their food and pills.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:43 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

typical aspartame flavored beverages are not dangerous unless you consume over 19 cans a day and as long as it is stored below 86 degrees it does not separate into dangerous toxins.


Additional note. This is anecdotal. If you get cola from a fountain, getting refills from the same cup for a long period of time will result in a noticeably sweet residue building up on the side of the cup. I'm pretty sure that is aspartame.



Only if it's diet, but if you get a diet fountain drink you might be swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool: Fountain drinks are cut with corn syrup, which totally defeats the purpose.

The sweet stuff at the bottom of the cup is the corn syrup (HFCS) collecting. I wouldn't put fountain drinks on the "avoid like the plague" list, but don't make a habit of it. It's not a great food. It's more of a food than aspartame, which is not a food at all, it's a chemical.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:44 AM

DREAMTROVE


Also,

Everyone note the story at the head of this thread.

I'm wondering if the recently discovered "microstrokes" are the MoA of this memory loss. If so, that's a serious worry.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 7:56 AM

BYTEMITE


Thanks DT, I've been wondering about these things.

I should probably be careful with inositol anyway because it's known to increase depressive symptoms after four weeks, and my memory is already poor so I really don't need to promote GABA. Also potentially a good justification for me to avoid alcohol, which I already do.

Ugh, corn syrup. But, I guess it's not like I didn't already know I was damaging myself. I'm just glad it's not an aspartame buildup.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 9:24 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

I think Happy should read through this.


Careful DT, your starting to sound arrogant but I do appreciate the links. I'm backed up working on community orchestra... or more accurately community 'ensemble' stuff at the moment, but I will get to them.

Does anyone or any of the articles have more information on the 'key enzymes'? I am especially curious as to how that works (assuming it is real).

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Friday, February 11, 2011 10:34 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Thanks DT for the links.

Happy,

Let's just start with facts.

1. In one 12 fl oz can of Diet Pepsi, you get 177 mg of Aspartame, or about 18 mg of methanol (roughly 10%).
http://www.pepsiproductfacts.com/infobyproduct.php?brand_fam_id=1051&a
mp;brand_id=1000&product=Diet%20Pepsi


2. Methanol is regarded as a cumulative poison in high enough chronic doses.

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim335.htm

Read section 9.2, then 11.2.

Debate

1. Methanol is present in larger doses in tomato juice (85 mg) and apples (20 mg). Tomato juice/apple proponents say those veggies also have ethanol, which is an antidote to methanol, as well as other protective factors. Aspartame proponents say the ethanol in veggies is so low as to be negligible.

2. Dose makes the poison. Too much Vit A is also poisonous. Doesn't mean you can't take it chronically in low doses. Aspartame opponents say there have been no studies on chronic low-dose uses.

It really is up to you to decide whether you are taking too much, or if any amount is not safe. Try not drinking it for a month, and note any changes. You can see if you like the difference.

ETA: More links on the debate:

Against aspartame:

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/methanol.faq

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/abuse/methanol.html#fruit

http://www.dorway.com/offasprt.html

Pro aspartame

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,990167,00.html
and all Wikipedia articles



-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:27 AM

DREAMTROVE


Byte,

Not necessarily, theres mental resistance training. But thats another story.

Happy,

One of the MoA suggestions is microstroke, which means Brain cell death

From one of the links above

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Aspartame Is By Far, the Most Dangerous Substance On the Market That Is Added To Foods
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Aspartame is the technical name for the brand names, NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, and Equal-Measure. Aspartame was discovered by accident in 1965, when James Schlatter, a chemist of G.D. Searle Company was testing an anti-ulcer drug. Aspartame was approved for dry goods in 1981 and for carbonated beverages in 1983. It was originally approved for dry goods on July 26, 1974, but objections filed by neuroscience researcher Dr John W. Olney and Consumer attorney James Turner in August 1974 as well as investigations of G.D. Searle's research practices caused the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to put approval of aspartame on hold (December 5, 1974). In 1985, Monsanto purchased G.D. Searle and made Searle Pharmaceuticals and The NutraSweet Company separate subsidiaries.
Aspartame accounts for over 75 percent of the adverse reactions to food additives reported to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Many of these reactions are very serious including seizures and death as recently disclosed in a February 1994 Department of Health and Human Services report.(1) A few of the 90 different documented symptoms listed in the report as being caused by aspartame include: Headaches/migraines, dizziness, seizures, nausea, numbness, muscle spasms, weight gain, rashes, depression, fatigue, irritability, tachycardia, insomnia, vision problems, hearing loss, heart palpitations, breathing difficulties, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, loss of taste, tinnitus, vertigo, memory loss, and joint pain.
According to researchers and physicians studying the adverse effects of aspartame, the following chronic illnesses can be triggered or worsened by ingesting of aspartame:(2) Brain tumors, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, chronic fatigue syndrome, parkinson's disease, alzheimer's, mental retardation, lymphoma, birth defects, fibromyalgia, and diabetes.
Aspartame is made up of three chemicals: Aspartic acid, phenylalanine, and methanol. The book, Prescription for Nutritional Healing, by James and Phyllis Balch, lists aspartame under the category of "chemical poison." As you shall see, that is exactly what it is.
ASPARTIC ACID (40% OF ASPARTAME)
Dr Russell L. Blaylock, a professor of Neurosurgery at the Medical University of Mississippi, recently published a book thoroughly detailing the damage that is caused by the ingestion of excessive aspartic acid from aspartame. [Ninety nine percent of monosodium glutamate 9MSG) is glutamic acid. The damage it causes is also documented in Blaylock's book.] Blaylock makes use of almost 500 scientific references to show how excess free excitatory amino acids such as aspartic acid and glutamic acid in our food supply are causing serious chronic neurological disorders and a myriad of other acute symptoms.(3)
SUMMARY OF HOW ASPARTATE (AND GLUTAMATE) CAUSE DAMAGE
Aspartate and glutamate act as neurotransmitters in the brain by facilitating the transmission of information from neuron to neuron. Too much aspartate or glutamate in the brain kills certain neurons by allowing the influx of too much calcium into the cells. This influx triggers excessive amounts of free radicals which kill the cells. The neural cell damage that can be caused by excessive aspartate and glutamate is why they are referred to as "excitotoxins." They "excite" or stimulate the neural cells to death.
Aspartic acid is an amino acid. Taken in its free form (unbound to proteins) it significantly raises the blood plasma level of aspartate and glutamate. The excess aspartate and glutamate in the blood plasma shortly after ingesting aspartame or products with free glutamic acid (glutamate precursor) leads to a high level of those neurotransmitters in certain areas of the brain.
The blood brain barrier (BBB) which normally protects the brain from excess glutamate and aspartate as well as toxins 1) is not fully developed during childhood, 2) does not fully protect all areas of the brain, 3) is damaged by numerous chronic and acute conditions, and 4) allows seepage of excess glutamate and aspartate into the brain even when intact.
The excess glutamate and aspartate slowly begin to destroy neurons. The large majority (75%+) of neural cells in a particular area of the brain are killed before any clinical symptoms of a chronic illness are noticed. A few of the many chronic illnesses that have been shown to be contributed to by long-term exposure excitatory amino acid damage include:
Multiple sclerosis (MS), ALS, memory loss, hormonal problems, hearing loss, epilepsy, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, hypoglycemia, AIDS dementia, brain lessions, and neuroendocrine disorders.
The risk to infants, children, pregnant women, the elderly, and persons with certain chronic health problems from excitotoxins are great. Even the Federation of American Societies For Experimental Biology (FASEB), which usually understates problems and mimics the FDA party-line, recently stated in a review that "it is prudent to avoid the use of dietary supplements of L-glutamic acid by pregnant women, infants, and children. The Existence of evidence of potential endocrine responses, i.e., elevated cortisol and prolactin, and differential responses between males and females, would also suggest a neuroendocrine link and that supplemental L-glutamic acid should be avoided by women of childbearing age and individuals with affective disorders."(4) Aspartic acid from aspartame has the same deleterious effects on the body as glutamic acid.
The exact mechanism of acute reactions to excess free glutamate and aspartate is currently being debated. As reported to the FDA, those reactions include:(5) Headaches/migraines, nausea, abdominal pains, fatigue (blocks sufficient glucose entry into brain), sleep problems, vision problems, anxiety attacks, depression, and asthma/chest tightness.
One common complaint of persons suffering from the effect of aspartame is memory loss. Ironically, in 1987, G.D. Searle, the manufacturer of aspartame, undertook a search for a drug to combat memory loss caused by excitatory amino acid damage. Blaylock is one of many scientists and physicians who are concerned about excitatory amino acid damage caused by ingestion of aspartame and MSG. A few of the many experts who have spoken out against the damage being caused by aspartate and glutamate include Adrienne Samuels, Ph.D., an experimental psychologist specializing in research design. Another is Olney, a professor in the department of psychiatry, School of Medicine, Washington University, a neuroscientist and researcher, and one of the world's foremost authorities on excitotoxins. (He informed Searle in 1971 that aspartic acid caused holes in the brain of mice.)



Essentially, its aspartic acid overdose, which is something warned against in foods in general

As for arrogance, at least I don't have a monopoly on it here ;)


Byte,

the taste of aspartame should be very distinctive, because of the bitter aftertaste.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 2:59 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I've read through a lot of this, and here is were I'm having trouble understanding.

Quote:

Aspartic acid is an amino acid. Taken in its free form (unbound to proteins) it significantly raises the blood plasma level of aspartate and glutamate. The excess aspartate and glutamate in the blood plasma shortly after ingesting aspartame or products with free glutamic acid (glutamate precursor) leads to a high level of those neurotransmitters in certain areas of the brain.


So too much Asparate in it's free form = bad, but is it in it's free form in aspartame stored below 86 degrees?

Quote:

It has been pointed out that some fruit juices and alcoholic beverages contain small amounts of methanol. It is important to remember, however, that methanol never appears alone. In every case, ethanol is present, usually in much higher amounts. Ethanol is an antidote for methanol toxicity in humans.(9) The troops of Desert Storm were "treated" to large amounts of aspartame-sweetened beverages, which had been heated to over 86 degrees F in the Saudi Arabian sun. Many of them returned home with numerous disorders similar to what has been seen in persons who have been chemically poisoned by formaldehyde. The free methanol in the beverages may have been a contributing factor in these illnesses. Other breakdown products of aspartame such as DKP (discussed below) may also have been a factor.

In a 1993 act that can only be described as "unconscionable," the FDA approved aspartame as an ingredient in numerous food items that would always be heated to above 86 degree F (30 degree C).



Again, aspartame breaks down above 86 degrees, so wouldn't that make the entire wood alcohol argument invalid unless the aspartame you ingested was heated to above 86 degrees?

Quote:

DKP is a byproduct of aspartame metabolism. DKP has been implicated in the occurrence of brain tumors. Olney noticed that DKP, when nitrosated in the gut, produced a compound that was similar to N-nitrosourea, a powerful brain tumor causing chemical. Some authors have said that DKP is produced after aspartame ingestion. I am not sure if that is correct. It is definitely true that DKP is formed in liquid aspartame-containing products during prolonged storage.


So based off of what I've gathered (if I am understanding correctly) Aspartame is dangerous when heated to above 86 degrees or stored for a very long period of time. That makes sense, and is a good thing to be aware of. I'm still looking for the how and why it is dangerous in a diet beverage. I would really like to understand that. I'm searching for more information on

Quote:

Due to the lack of a couple of key enzymes, humans are many times more sensitive to the toxic effects of methanol than animals.


and what exactly they mean by asparate in it's 'free form.' If asparate is not in it's 'free form' when aspartame is not heated above 86 degrees or stored for prolonged period of time, then it would appear the asparate arguement is also invalid, like comparing bleach (Sodium hypochlorite) to table salt (Sodium chloride).

'Course I'm not a chemist. Still, it's easier to find interest in chemistry when it becomes more relevant to your daily life and I am enjoying learning more. Unfortunately it is providing more questions than answers, but I suspect that is the case with most studies.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:06 PM

DREAMTROVE


Happy

I didn't even read it, but your missing an obvious point: anything you ingest is going tk be instantly heated tk above 86 degrees unless you're a vampire. It will remain in your body for an extended time.

ETA: on cursory glance ir looks to be a methylated form of aspartic acid with a couple of other components, one is phenylalanine. Which i'll ignore, unless its also modified, which could cause problems. Generally, don't take in any modified nutrients, because that's a good way to destroy receptors. I demonstrated this very thoroughly here on the board a few weeks ago with legos.

In short something-ated foodstuffs is not foodstuffs, its toxin which destroys your bodys ability to use said foodstuffs.

If you didn't evolve in its presence, it's not going to be good. If it is at higher levels than your body is used to, its not going to be good.

Unless this is a debate for the marketability of the product, I don't see much point. Sweetener is completely unnecessary anyway, and there are countless natural ones if you need one, and there even zero carb natural sweeteners like whey, so I see no reason to ingest artificial chemicals.

Also, when I see something like "ethoxylated mono and di glycerides" I don't need to wait for the study that proved that its not food, it doesn't even look like food. There is so much more going on in the body than we yet understand, in order to avoid harm, you have to apply some common sense.

That said, what appears from what Ive read so far is that aspartame seems much more dangerous than sucralose, but if you can avoid anything chemical, your probably better off.

The underlying science can be perfect, and it can still fuck up because biological science will always be incomplete. Ive known people who raise their kids entirely on protein and vitamin supplements instead of food, and the result is universally disaster. I don't know why, but it is, and I just conclude: pele, use your heads, apply common sense. You don't know enough to go and start replacing food. Or adding stuff to our water, etc. The world is filled with unknowns.

Oh, and I don't know if it is the calcium build up, but there were numerous reports of micro strokes.

Anotehr hitch: i just asked my sister and she says it makes her extremely dizzy, she asked her doctor, who said "youre allergic, about one in three people are, its hyper allergenic" so I just looked that up, and aspartate is an immunoadjuvent. Sometimes that would help, but not usually or chronically. Not something to drink a glass of daily.

Sorry this wasn't full of science, I just wanted to input some common sense.


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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:49 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


It's cool, you make some very good points.

I'm just trying to understand a science that my knowledge of is incomplete of. Also, the science it self isn't all there as you said.

Concerning digestion and temperature, I would think the FDA wouldn't just miss something like that. If aspartame breaks up into the dangerous 'free form' versions of these chemicals during digestion I would expect the FDA to be aware of that and lower the ADI with is generally set at 1/100th the amount in which no toxic effects were found in animals. A possible explanation could be this 'key enzyme' I can't seem more than a passing reference to.

Obviously we don't need diet coke or chewing gum, and I don't think many people consume them hoping to 'get something out of them.' More like it's a substitution for something that will be bad for them, such as chewing gum instead of smoking cigarettes or drinking diet soda instead of a sugary beverage. I'm not advocating that anyone should drink diet soda, just looking for an understanding of how the aspartame is supposedly bad for you.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 5:20 PM

DREAMTROVE


1) when the knowledge is incomplete, err on the side of caution

2) what in he world gave you the idea that the FDA was on your side, rather than that of corporations? Oh, right, the FDA did. Almost every advisor on the board of the FDA ever has been a corporate executive. How often have they asked for your advice?

3) its simple: if you're diabetic, don't drink soda.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 10:08 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


Diet drinks taste nasty, anyway.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I should probably be careful with inositol anyway because it's known to increase depressive symptoms after four weeks, and my memory is already poor so I really don't need to promote GABA.


Very odd. I got curious about inositol from your mention of it, so I looked for info on it. Apparently it's a common ingredient in energy drinks, and preliminary research has indicated that it might be helpful in cases of depression. That seems to be pretty much the opposite of what's being said here. Do you mind if I ask where your info on it is coming from?


Facts are stubborn things.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 1:54 AM

DREAMTROVE


Lili

Inositol is an alcohol, just a very potent one, because it contains 8 OH-s instead of one. OH- is hydrogen peroxide, a free radical and what antioxidants get rid of but it also performs some functions in the body, mainly, it promotes GABA, because when GABA is used, it loses it's OH-, but if it can pick up another one, it can be used again.

So, simply put, Inositol = more GABA.

GABA is the bodies natural sedative. It will lower anxiety, by lowering adrenalin levels, it will also lower serotonin levels, causing depression.

GABA also has a second function which is to help muscles, so while it is not mental energy, it can add to your physical energy.

As for depression, a good depression treatment isn't this simple, and often involves boosting all levels simultaneously, so it might *include* inositol, but probably should be *only* inositol. Inositol is an alcohol and alcohol is a depressant, because it encourages GABA and that discorages other things, notably serotonin.

All of that said, in practice, it's a fairly weak GABA promoter, relative to some pharmaceutical and herbal ones out there. Stonger than alcohol, yes, but then people don't drink milligrams of alcohol, they drink kilograms ;)

At these levels, I would be unconcerned about the amount of Inositol. Also, there some question about how much inositol taken in a dietary fashion actually makes it into the blood, and how much in the blood actually makes it to the brain.

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