Happy Saint Patrick's Day! by TheHappyTrader

Not before I take them home. One at a time. Or, you know, two at a time.

Or 29 at a time.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:24 AM

Please NO Not Riverdance. Aren't things bad enough in the world.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:56 PM

MINCINGBEAST

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:57 PM

MINCINGBEAST

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 1:25 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Awwwww... RIGHT! To Trader goes the prize for first serious guffaw of the day; that video was a goody. Thanx!

Actually, so were the others...DT, does this indicate you like 'em?? You can have Flatley...with his flatly huge ego...but I can tell you as an ex-folk dancer that step dancing is INCREDIBLY hard, and moving people around in formations like that is even harder. I give 'em points for doing what I no longer can and which most likely NONE of the rest here can (with the possible exception of Riona?).

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 5:38 PM

Yes, not sure why people are hating on riverdance.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:31 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm so glad someone started this thread!! As obvious, St. Patrick's day is my very favorite day of the whole wide year!!!!! I had a great day today with my dad, going to resturants, listening to music, watching the dancers and visiting with family friends, it is a wonderful day! I'm still floating on my Irish high. Its the only day of the year when people begin to understand a piece of my inner self, they are happy and enthusiastic about Irish (or close enough) things and want to hear good Irish music, and one has choices of where to listen to it because it is easy to find! Huzzah! If only everyday were this way! Tomorrow Mary is spending the night, we'll watch my favorite film and then go to another festival day on Sat. which means more music and dance! Can anyone tell that I'm really happy right now?! :)

I like River Dance, I don't understand why people have it in for them, I'd like to see you try and dance like that Meghan's Daughter. If you are an actual Irish dancer and you want to diss on them I'll listen, otherwise its not happenin. BTW if you want to see something spectacular but more "authentic/traditional" you should check out Ragus, the best singing and dance show in the Irish realm!

Actually Niki, I'm like, the worst dancer in the verse, I'm woefully uncoordinated, a trad singer does not a dancer make. :) Its cool that you've done folk dancing before.

My name being mentioned in this thread tells me that I'm doing well here, I'm making the world understand me.

Slainte a chairde!

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 18, 2011 6:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I'm surprised that that many identify as being Christians. I wonder how many of those who identify as Christians are actually actively doing things to follow God etc. and how many just said it because they think that America is a Christian country so they just chose that as their category regardless of actual beliefs. It isn't my place to judge who is a Christian and who isn't though, all we can do is look at self identification data, it isn't my place to say anything more on the matter.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Riona

First, 15% of the population is Latino. All of them are Catholic.
Next, 13% are black. Virtually all of them are Protestant.
Then, 15% of the population is German, they're overwhelmingly Lutherins,
Another 15% is Italian, and they're definitely catholics.
A good 15% are Irish, and they tend to be Catholics as well.
24% are "born again" or "new christians"

That would put us at 97%. The reason that we don't actually get that high, is that there's some overlap to the above groups. (Irish-Italian-American Catholics, etc.)

Additionally, there are, albeit a relatively small number, european descendents who belong to a denominational old christian sect.

There are also a number of conversions that take place. My own family history is a mess, religiously.

My mother's ancestors came over from Ireland as Catholics, but converted to protestant when they got here. They were fleeing persecution of Catholics under William and Mary, but that was of course not a real religious war, but racial genocide. they may have converted before they came, but that wouldn't save them.

My father's family was jewish, they had converted *to* judaism from catholicism in the 1820s, because of the fall of catholic nobility and the rise of jewish nobility at the time, they wanted to keep in the game. With the rise of early fascism, they converted to lutheranism, but that didn't save them. My grandmother was already here, and hooked up with a Scottish protestant, but they became jewish.

I was raised in a weird jewish-christian hybrid household (Which, btw, does *not* save on hot air...) And grew up confused. My brother married into a large chinese family and now they're all over here, making up most of the family. It's a very odd situation. He and his wife did answer Christian for a while, but now I think they answer Taoist, or possibly Jewish. I know a number of people who are active in multiple religions.

So, I'm a Taoist, convert. I'm still christian enough to follow "what would jesus do" and still jewish enough to believe in supporting one's own tribe, and of course, who can say no to a few extra holidays ;)

My life was saved by actual witches, of traditional Irish extraction (yes, they still exist, St. Pat didn't get them all) and they showed me the power of herbals. I then applied my knowledge of chemistry, a Russian science (A science developed not by atheists but by an Orthodox priest based on the work of Muslim scholars that was based on the work of Greek pagans.)

So, it's hard for me to see the world in any kind of isolated single-faith view.

My stronger expectation of the results is that almost everyone has an "atheist" period of doubt in their lives, and that any poll will catch people at that point. Probably there are relatively few lifelong atheists. But I can see when someone decides that their current faith has fed them a line, and they reject it, floating for a period, mocking the idea that there's an old guy with a grey beard in the sky making decisions for everyone, but later, they find that this isn't a tenet of every faith ;)

Select to view spoiler:

Arguing with socialists has led me to the suspicion that they are not in fact atheists. I'm not sure that the State is their God, as some have put it, but it is certainly their church, and socialism is their faith. A democrat or republican might admit to you when you point out something wrong with their party "oh, it's flawed, but it's better than the competition." Point out such a flaw to socialists, and their typical response is "That person/state wasn't a true socialist." That is much more similar to the response you would get if you were to criticize a religion on the basis of part of its membership than it is to the reaction of a political party.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Yes, not sure why people are hating on riverdance.

Just by asking that question, you clearly will never get it.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Yes, not sure why people are hating on riverdance.

Just by asking that question, you clearly will never get it.

I will never get why people hate.

One world, one pass, you can like what's in it, or not.

In my own past, I can tell people any time of my jewish relatives who were killed in the holocaust and get a programmed sympathy response, but in reality, more of my Irish ancestors were exterminated in genocide than jewish ones. This is in part because more Irish have been exterminated by the English than Jews by the Germans. More Irish and Celts have been exterminated than any other European group except for Slavs. Hating the Irish is a British pastime which is alive and well. So is killing the Irish.

The Irish have never been imperial overlords, genocideers or oppressors of other peoples, yet for some reason every Irish symbol is listed by the US govt. as a "hate symbol" and wearing one constitutes a "hate crime" just as if you were wearing a swastika. I find this hard to explain in any world outside of a Pirate News one, where the US is not in fact an independent country, but a slave state of the British empire. 55% of americans are at least part Irish, and 15% or so are majority Irish. Only 8% of Americans are of majority English ancestry.

But racism toward the Irish among Brits, like racism towards Asians among Australians, is not the only problem I have here:

Hating.

Just hating, in life, in general. I'm not a fan of Barry Manilow. He seems like a nice guy. He writes music I don't care to listen to. If someone were to say to me "Mandy is my favorite song" I would say "That's interesting" but underneath that I would not be thinking "What a twit, that moron likes that Manilow guy, I just hate that guy." Instead, I would feel indifferent.

If I'm in a dance club and they are playing Barry Manilow, I can dance to it. It's not my idea of great music, but neither is Jay Z.

But most things, I like. There's not a lot of reason not to like things.

It's not a Coke vs. Pepsi world. You can like Coke and Pepsi. Or neither. But the world is full of false dichotomies that are created. Hating things modern makes people who like things old feel superior. Hating things Irish makes people who identify with Brits feel superior.

You ever stopped to look at a group of people who hate, from the outside? I was reading something the other day that was a wake up call to me on this one. The writer referred to them as "the evil people."

I mentioned this to people I know, who share common ground on things they dislike, rather than like, like much of my family does much of the time. I commented that they were getting off on the superior feeling that hating the work, art and accomplishments of others was giving them, and told them to stop and look at themselves from the outside.

Does what someone says about the lack of merit of art reflect on the art? Or does it reflect on themselves? What would anyone looking in see, if they saw 20 hates in a row on various things from Miley Cyrus to Sarah Palin? Would the outsider look at this litany and say "I should reconsider these 20 things, maybe they are worthless" or would they, perhaps, be more likely to say "these people hate the world and everything that's in it." ?

Sure, the latter analysis might not be correct, but I assure you it's the one that they would see, because such a group of haters would never be running off a series of 20 things that they loved. Because loving these things doesn't make them feel superior. If you watch really closely, you will find that these people fall into a self sinking circle, as they each criticize one another in their absence, until all that is visible to the outside world is everything these people hate, and everything that is wrong with each one of them, as cast by each of the others in the circle, collectively.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:21 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

DT, it's not about racism or hate. It's about the prefabricated, prepackaged BS that gets passed off as "culture". The idea that Riverdance is spreading Irish culture to the world is as valid as saying that McDonald's is spreading American health food to the world.

Hey, some people juggle geese...

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:23 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
DT, it's not about racism or hate. It's about the prefabricated, prepackaged BS that gets passed off as "culture". The idea that Riverdance is spreading Irish culture to the world is as valid as saying that McDonald's is spreading American health food to the world.

Hey, some people juggle geese...

Sure and rap has nothing to do with black/urban culture....some libtard you are

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:02 PM

Mike, every been to Ireland?

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

Sure and rap has nothing to do with black/urban culture....some libtard you are

The troll has a point

Anyone who thinks that Riverdance is traditional Irish culture may be a moron but anyone who thinks that culture by definition had to have been created by people who are all now dead is more of a moron.

The comparison that came to my mind was Andrew Lloyd Webber to British culture.

I know people who claim that while T.S. Eliot is "culture," "CATS" is not. Why? Because Eliot is dead? They would argue, no, it's "poetry." Nonsense. It's back to hating the new vs. the old which I already covered in my rant.

Irish people can create culture today. They don't have to run just on the past culture of other Irish people, if it's derivative of Irish culture, and it was made by Irish people, then it's Irish culture, is it not?

Riverdance is the creation of Bill Whelan, who, last time I checked, was Irish, and it's certainly based on Irish influences, and it was created in Ireland by Irish people. I don't know of any non-Irish people involved, but if I found some, would it matter? If I were to point out that Firefly was made with money from Rupert Murdoch, a fair amount from his own pocket actually, from his Australian media empire, would you then be willing to toss it overboard as part of American Culture?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:35 PM

i am irish descent myself, been to ireland, love the place and the people and the music. hate riverdance because it is shite. pure and simple.

feel free to enjoy it, i'm not calling for it to be banned -reluctantly

just think its rubbish.

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 2:52 AM

See "missing the point entirely".

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:00 AM

Yes, because disliking Riverdance = ethnic cleansing of the Irish. Perleeessse.

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:05 AM

We need a "Like" button, so I could click it about a hundred times on Magons's post! :)

Riverdance is art and culture to about the same degree as "American Idol" (actually, that's had a BIGGER impact on the real world) and "Two and a Half Men". Some will love it; some will see it as banal and puerile.

Heck, I think Banksy makes relevant art, but the law says he's a vandal. Who's right?

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 11:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

"Reel around the Sun " video of River Dance

Man, talk about cool! Back before the BDM came out, we were discussing ideas for the Shindig at DragonCon. It was mentioned that music like 12 Girls Band might be nice, since it has that Firefly feel to it, being a mixture of traditional Chinese w/ a flair to it. Well, of course I got the Eastern Energy CD, and love it. Of all the songs, it seemed to me that 'Reel around the Sun' was damn near like something one might hear in the BDM. I envisioned some great sequence, like a chase scene, or possibly as an intro to the movie.. anyway, I really dig this song. So, when I see it being performed by River Dance, on FFF.net ... it kinda brings it all around again.

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:53 PM

Rap,

Interesting idea. Actually, a Firefly Musical like Once More with Reavers... it has possibilities.

Mike

I have nothing against American Idol. But I'll give it a pass because you posted a really impressive amount of splatter platter. Thing is I know a lot of people who really hate splatter platter, and the subject came up because of Jean Dinning's death. Everyone was responding with a fair amount of hate, so I went and hung out with my mom and we listened to it all night, because, hey, when people hate something you like, there's a guilty pleasure in sneaking away to enjoy it. I was going to post Jean Dinning's obituary as a real world event, but I didn't want to get a huge backlash of haters, which I thought would be really inappropriate, but given when had happened with family and friends reactions, I thought it altogether likely, so I posted the Dixie Chicks song first instead, and then the Dinning obituary further down the thread.

Liking is so much better in life than hating... I'll step a little further out onto this limb...

I like CATS.

Now and Forever.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, March 21, 2011 1:46 AM

Hey, you're allowed to like what you like. Like "Cats" - lots of people did, else it wouldn't have become one of the (if not THE) longest-running Broadway shows. One assumes that wasn't because so many hated it.

Hell, I bought a Madonna album once ("Ray of Light"). In truth, I bought it more because of the producer, William Orbit, but it has its moments.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, March 21, 2011 11:28 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Rap,

Interesting idea. Actually, a Firefly Musical like Once More with Reavers... it has possibilities.

Well, I think that year there was also a Buffy OMWF event, the next night. THAT was a HUGE success, judging from the line that went down the hall, out the door, down the steps and around the building until.... I have no idea. So, no one wanted to copy cat that idea. Drinking, dancing and socializing was just fine for the attending Browncoats.

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Monday, March 21, 2011 12:06 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think people “hate” Riverdance because it was a fad for a while and got over-exposed. There are only so many steps in step dancing, it’s not something everyone takes to, and having it everywhere and at water coolers is almost guaranteed to turn people against anything!

On the other hand, I do dislike Flatley, I think his ego is almost as big as his talent and I can’t stand to watch him. But step dancing in general, and Riverdance, I enjoy thoroughly. Getting that many people into those figures they do is TOUGH! I can’t help admiring good dancing, in any form, and only wish my knee/ankle weren’t in the shape they are ‘cuz I’d ADORE to learn Western line dancing!

Ahhhh, Riona, telling me you’re the worst dancer in the ‘verse don’t carry no weight! During the years I was folkdancing, I had a roommate who had moved here from somewhere Back East; he knew nobody and pretty much kept to himself. So my then-boyfriend and I decided to introduce him to folkdancing. He had two of he biggest left feet I’ve ever seen, and NO sense of rhythm. I kinda gave up, but Mark kept working with him. A few years ago I was down there and someone told me he’s with West Winds, the single best PROFESSIONAL folk dancing group in the Bay Area! ANYBODY can learn to dance and be good at it, and it’s a fantastic way to keep your weight down!! We met every Friday night at the Quad at Stanford, and did everything from Serbian to Russian to Balkan to English and beyond. I never thought I could dance either, but damn, I got GOOD, and I still miss it. Some of that stuff is damned complex...not on the order of Riverdance footing, but in other ways. I never had so much fun in my life, tho’. Sigh...

As to “doing well” here, doll, you are definitely “one of us”. One only has to post for a short time before one becomes part of RWED, I found that out when I first came here. Never doubt it. Admittedly we can’t get to know one another IRL, but personality comes out, no matter how anyone tries to hide it, and yours is a valuable voice. You just have to learn the hard lessons we all do about the trolls and how not to let them get to you, have any expectations of reasonable communication from them or fight back (unless you enjoy it, like Mike does).

, then you’ll be completely “assimilated”...tho’ some of us never have, mind you. biggrin:

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, March 21, 2011 12:07 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Dunno why you hid that text, DT, but “oh, but that person isn’t a real...” is something I’ve heard many many times from Tea Partiers. Just sayin’.

I agree with DT about hating...bearing in mind that the vernacular of “I HATE that” doesn’t necessarily mean one actually hates, it’s terminology. But hating takes a LOT more effort than accepting or liking or disliking, so I’ve never quite understood the wish to put that much energy into anything but the very important things. Most things aren’t important enough to “hate”, to me.

When it comes to T.S. Elliot and Cats, I’m kinda one of those you mentioned. T.S. Elliot’s poetry was so wonderful and whimsical, and I don’t think they translated it for SHIT---I call it “Hollywoodized”. I loved the book; saw the musical and was totally turned off. I don’t consider either one “culture” and the other not, they’re both culture, but one has more class to me than the other, and it has nothing to do with it being new. I thought they BUTCHERED McCavity, which was one of my favorites.

By the way, the dances we did in folkdancing incorporated some very old ones, but NEW ones came along all the time...in fact, if like me you’d been out of the scene for a few years, you had to learn all the new ones or you wouldn’t be dancing much. New, old, it’s as you said; if it comes FROM the culture and reflects the culture, it’s PART of the culture, as far as I’m concerned.

I DEFINITELY disagree with the comparison of Riverdance and American Idol! Now THAT I DO consider trash...it’s a setup, a con, and about as “reality” as any of the reality shows. It has little if any class, from what I’ve seen of it. As Magons said, feel free to enjoy it, but it’s not my cup of tea.

Riona, I also love some Celtic—-not all of it, but I got a couple of Arcady CDs and I ADORE them. Then went on to get a Chieftans CD...want it? Don’t like it. You never know if you don’t try...

I think Celtic or Irish would be great with Firefly...if you listen, there’s a taste of it in the theme...and certainly Irish must have been smushed together with everything else, just from what you see on the Shindig episode. By the way, I forgot SCI was broadcasting Firefly until Choey reminded me (not a channel I watch regularly). I’m SO enjoying seeing it broadcast once again, it feels like some kind of confirmation or something, that someone would broadcast it again, as few episodes as there are and as long as it’s been off. They truly CAN'T stop the signal!!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, March 21, 2011 1:00 PM