Hypocrisy by Hardware

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,”

-Then Senator Obama, 20 Dec. 2007

This surprises exactly who?? Politicians and hypocrisy...actually going TOGETHER??? Omigwad, the sky is falling!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:19 AM

JONGSSTRAW

War Power Act gives Obama 90 days to ask Congress for approval. This impeachment talk is nonsense. He still should have gone to Congress to at least explain what he's doing, but most analysts think he really doesn't know. He's taking all sorts of heat on this.....

a) UN authority usurped Congressional authority?

b) Is this about humanitarian aid, or regime change?

c) If it is about humanitarian, as he said in his speech just yesterday, why Libya? Why not Yemen, Bahrain, or Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, North Korea, the Congo, Iran, Syria, etc. The civilians in those countries need humanitarian intervention against murderous tyrants too, don't they?

I actually like what Obama's doing. It's smart. He's doing the Muhammed Ali rope-a-dope, and considering the state of things, I like seeing other countries take the lead for once. He's not leading, and he's not commiting America to something that may get very squirrely soon. All my life America has always gone in, to help, to avenge, whatever. And what did we ever get back for any of it? Just more hatred and anti-Americanism. We need a break. Let the French and the Arabs handle this one.

But Obama does have a problem with Gaddaffi. If Gaddaffi survives this and remains in power in some way, it will make Obama's threats and rhetoric look weaker than they already do.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:43 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,”

-Then Senator Obama, 20 Dec. 2007

If the president receives intel that Bin Laden is in a certain place (in Pakistan or Yemen or wherever), should he authorise an immediate drone/crusie missile strike, or should he consult Congress?

There are differing degrees to modern military action that the FF's would've had no conception of. In his answer Obama should've made distinctions: invading Iraq is not the same as surgical strikes against Libya. And I would put to you that surgical strikes against Iran is not the same as surgical strikes against Libya...

Obama was asked specifically about Iran, and made a mistake, generalising too much in his answer - that's the way I see it.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:55 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
War Power Act gives Obama 90 days to ask Congress for approval. This impeachment talk is nonsense. He still should have gone to Congress to at least explain what he's doing, but most analysts think he really doesn't know. He's taking all sorts of heat on this.....

a) UN authority usurped Congressional authority?

b) Is this about humanitarian aid, or regime change?

c) If it is about humanitarian, as he said in his speech just yesterday, why Libya? Why not Yemen, Bahrain, or Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, North Korea, the Congo, Iran, Syria, etc. The civilians in those countries need humanitarian intervention against murderous tyrants too, don't they?

I actually like what Obama's doing. It's smart. He's doing the Muhammed Ali rope-a-dope, and considering the state of things, I like seeing other countries take the lead for once. He's not leading, and he's not commiting America to something that may get very squirrely soon. All my life America has always gone in, to help, to avenge, whatever. And what did we ever get back for any of it? Just more hatred and anti-Americanism. We need a break. Let the French and the Arabs handle this one.

But Obama does have a problem with Gaddaffi. If Gaddaffi survives this and remains in power in some way, it will make Obama's threats and rhetoric look weaker than they already do.

The problem being with the War Powers Act (passed with a congressional override of Nixon's veto), there is a requirement that the use of military force needed a clear danger to the US. I'm pretty sure Libya doesn't qualify. I'm pretty sure Iraq didn't either, but at the time there was chatter of WMDs, and Congress approved. Afghanistan, there was no doubt they, or more directly those that they harbored represented a threat.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:11 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The problem being with the War Powers Act

There are many problems with the War Powers Act, which is why its been virtually ignored by every President. It is unlikely to pass Constitutional test, which is why nobody has seriously pressed the issue legally during all those times its been ignored.

Obama disagrees with himself on this, but I can't complain since his actions are more correct then his theory. That said, it does not mean we are not in the process of botching the entire thing by waiting too long, being indecisiive, and now running and hiding to Brazil while the trying to get anybody to take a leadership role. In short, its 2am, the phones been ringing for weeks, and the President needs a committee to decide if he's going to answer (when he gets home from vacation).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:16 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
c) If it is about humanitarian, as he said in his speech just yesterday, why Libya? Why not Yemen, Bahrain, or Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, North Korea, the Congo, Iran, Syria, etc. The civilians in those countries need humanitarian intervention against murderous tyrants too, don't they?

Yep and so did Iraq. That's a good point.

I would say handle on a case by case basis - but Yemen is the one that worries me (and is probably the next domino in line). Yemen has had snipers killing protesters just like Libya - over 50 killed in a massacre last week. But Yemen is also in danger of becoming a failed state, with two insurgencies and Al Qaeda very active... Do we support the overthrow of the dictator here? How big is our faith in democracy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12809568

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:49 AM

JONGSSTRAW

One of the most disturbing things going around with the Libya thing is the makeup of the rebels themselves. I have not done the research, but it was reported last night that the NY Times, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, Washington Post, and in US State Dept. releases that the Rebels may have close ties to Al Qaida. Indeed, in recent videos we can see and hear the Rebels yelling Alluaha Akbar!....God is Great. That's what all the Muslim terrorists scream when they kill innocents. They're also on video yelling The Jihad has come. They have found communications between Rebel factions and radical Islamist organizations. SO......although I don't know, what if this coalition is actually helping Al Qaida? Yikes, that might prove a tad embarrassing to the Western powers.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:59 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't buy that. I've heard exactly the opposite from numerous sources; the only ones I've heard saying that are those on the right who want to instill fear and/or keep the status quo of Ghadafi. We all know to distrust the MSM, and I don't think we get the true story from either side. The use of al Qaeda to instill fear and hatred has been long standing, it doesn't wash with me.

Do we REALLY know the makeup of the rebels? Where can we get valid information on same? The right claim the Muslim Brotherhood is all al Qaeda and will take over in Egypt; the left said both Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood in that country are secularist compared to al Qaeda and that, yes, that group will be part of any new government, but never powerful enough to take it over. It's a matter I suppose of who you CHOOSE to believe. For me, it's up to the Libyan and Egyptian people to decide who governs them; I hope they don't let chaos put the wrong person in power, I just hope they get a leader who is good TO THEM.

As to saying "God is great" and that jihadists say the same, that is, once again, equating al Qaeda with Islam. I thought we'd agreed that al Qaeda and the jihadists were NOT true Muslims? The anti-choice people who kill aborion doctors seem to say they believe THEY are doing God's work, are revering their God, etc. They don't cry "god is good", but the mentality is the same and I'm sure they preach that what they do is "good" because it's what God wants. I think the comparison of both the rebels and the jihadists saying god is good is not only wrong, but prejudiced.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:11 AM

BYTEMITE

Wouldn't be the first time, we helped them against Russian in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

But yeah, "Allah Ackbar" is a Muslim thing, not necessarily a terrorist thing. They also say it at the end of some prayers too, or speeches by mullahs/imams/ayatollahs, or sometimes just in general when something has gone well for them.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:38 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
One of the most disturbing things going around with the Libya thing is the makeup of the rebels themselves. I have not done the research, but it was reported last night that the NY Times, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, Washington Post, and in US State Dept. releases that the Rebels may have close ties to Al Qaida. Indeed, in recent videos we can see and hear the Rebels yelling Alluaha Akbar!....God is Great. That's what all the Muslim terrorists scream when they kill innocents. They're also on video yelling The Jihad has come. They have found communications between Rebel factions and radical Islamist organizations. SO......although I don't know, what if this coalition is actually helping Al Qaida? Yikes, that might prove a tad embarrassing to the Western powers.

fwiw if you believe the Jerusalem Post an Al-Qaida official does like the rebels: http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=212003

"A senior member of al Qaida urged Libyan rebels to continue their fight against Muammar Gaddafi and warned of the consequences of defeat, in a videotaped message posted on Jihadi websites, the Qatar-based Gulf News reported on Sunday.

The message from Libya native, Abu Yahya al-Libi, marked the first time a top ranked al Qaida commander had commented on the uprising in Libya. Gaddafi has repeatedly blamed al Qaida for inciting the unrest against him."

BUT... come on folks, in this region, with the staggering poverty and lack of future many young men face, they will jump on whatever bandwagon comes along that makes them feel wanted or feeds them or gives them a loaded weapon. This is a region in which an unfortunate number of people have so little to live for they can actually be talked into blowing themselves up. Staggering. So, maybe some of them are Al-Qaida, maybe some of them were Al-Qaida, and maybe some of them will be next month - does it really matter big picture? We have no business and we're just plain stupid for sticking our boot into it.

I just saw Obama wobble on Ghaddafi. Unbelievable. He said essentially, "if he starts treating his people better, and makes some SERIOUS changes, we'll see what we can do." $96,000,000 in Tomahawk missiles flushed down the crapper.

And Clinton... she's off script and she looks like hell, again. She said that she's getting word from "people inside Ghaddafi's inner circle," that he's "looking for a way out," he wants to settle up and move on. Then she qualified, "I'm not saying these sources can be 100% trusted, but the word is coming out to us through several channels." I think she's just feeding the public total BS. They're getting tons of heat for this from both sides and they want to throw out a speed bump. What a crew.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:42 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hey, if we want to get head up about the fear of al Qaeda taking over, why aren't we discussing SYRIA?? THAT's already a stronghold of al Qaeda, it's got the same problems as Libya, and demonstrations have begun THERE, too. Eh?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:28 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Good show with the Biden clip, I wonder if we can push some career-suicidally brave media flack to grill him on it - I'd pay good money to see that.

Far as the rebels go, I got one, and only one, contact on the ground and we're using mechanical translation, which is NOT working out too damn well... but his stances on it seems to be fuck em both, apparently he/she? hates the Rebels as much or more than Ghadafi, make of that what you will.

-F

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:15 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Wouldn't be the first time, we helped them against Russian in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

But yeah, "Allah Ackbar" is a Muslim thing, not necessarily a terrorist thing. They also say it at the end of some prayers too, or speeches by mullahs/imams/ayatollahs, or sometimes just in general when something has gone well for them.

Damn, now everyone who says "God bless you!" when I sneeze is a fucking Christo-fascist-jihadist-terrorist... (Actually, lots and lots of so-called "christians" really ARE terrorists, mind you)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:44 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Not too surprising really, they'll all hypocrites.

I'm not a terrorist.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:57 AM

I thought all Irish were terrorists. My hollywood action flicks tell me so

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:34 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I thought all Irish were terrorists.

And they are also sober...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
And they are also sober...

Hey, I represent that remark.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:00 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
And they are also sober...

Hey, I represent that remark.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:43 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Well technically I'm not Irish by ancestry, if there is any it is small. But my inner being is totally Irish! When I get in a really bad mood, like I'm pissed at everyone, which usually only happens if I'm hungry or being deprived of sleep, then we jokingly say that Sinead the IRA terrorist is coming out. :) But we're just teasing/playing, even though that probably isn't funny to people who've experienced terrorism, but my friends think its funny.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:46 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

I've got 3 Irish grandparents and 1 German, making me 3/4th Irish. Needless to say I was destined to enjoy beer, but I did manage not to be Catholic.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:11 PM

Hypocrisy is Newt Gingrich. Everything he says, and everything he does.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:19 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I have several Irish ancestors, several Scottish ancestors, and a few German and French ancestors.
I hate beer. I hate nearly every form of alcohol under the sun and have quite literally never been drunk. Maybe it's not genetic, after all. (Also not Catholic, my grandfather ended that particular cycle.)
Also, I say "Gesundheit," when someone sneezes, because I think wishing good health to someone is far more appropriate than some sort of blessing.

Ritual is what happens when we run out of rational.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I've got 3 Irish grandparents and 1 German, making me 3/4th Irish. Needless to say I was destined to enjoy beer, but I did manage not to be Catholic.

Huh. And I thought you were black ;) On the internet no one knows you're a dog. You out Irish me. I'm Irish/Scottish/Czech/Mayflowery mix of celt/patroon(Dutch.) I'm genetically probably pretty similar, more slav and jew in there but general celtic/german. I always thought there would an indian somewhere, but I managed to trace every last one to europe, or rather, my uncle did.

I suspect Riona of being more irish than she thinks. Lots of english lower classes are actually irish, if that helps.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hypocrisy is Newt Gingrich. Everything he says, and everything he does.

He tries, but T Boone Pickens is a master

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I've got 3 Irish grandparents and 1 German, making me 3/4th Irish. Needless to say I was destined to enjoy beer, but I did manage not to be Catholic.

Huh. And I thought you were black ;) On the internet no one knows you're a dog. You out Irish me. I'm Irish/Scottish/Czech/Mayflowery mix of celt/patroon(Dutch.) I'm genetically probably pretty similar, more slav and jew in there but general celtic/german. I always thought there would an indian somewhere, but I managed to trace every last one to europe, or rather, my uncle did.

I suspect Riona of being more irish than she thinks. Lots of english lower classes are actually irish, if that helps.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Wonder how many of us DON'T have Mayflowery ancestors. I've got some Winthropes (John) in there - they came over on one of the Mayflowers sister ships, on a later Pilgrim run, in 1644. Mostly German/Prussian, though - lots of Ohlingers, Frauhoffs, Schnurrs, and Mueses in the mix.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hypocrisy is Newt Gingrich. Everything he says, and everything he does.

He tries, but T Boone Pickens is a master

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Nah - Boone wasn't even dishonest about it. He just hid his evil in the fine print, but it was well known to most. Newt wears his proudly on his sleeve, while proclaiming that he only screws women other than his wife out of "patriotism".

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:28 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Wonder how many of us DON'T have Mayflowery ancestors.

NVGhostrider.

...Yeah, that's all I got. I do personally have some Cree in my background, but the majority of my ancestors were definite Mayflowery types.

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:59 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Indeed, in recent videos we can see and hear the Rebels yelling Alluaha Akbar!....God is Great.

A very common phrase for Muslims. Like the greeting 'Salaam Ale Kum' which roughly translates as Allah's blessing or peace be with you.

If you think about it, English also has common religious salutations or exclaimations

Good Bye = God be with ye
God Bless you (for a sneeze)
Holidays = holy days

European languages even more so Grüß Gott in German - Greet God
Prego in Italian - used as 'you're welcome' but means 'I pray'

I'm sure there are heaps others.
.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 2:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, the one advantage to having ancestors who humped everything that moved is being able to pretty much claim any ancestry you like, although this comes with scads and scads of idiot relatives who are often as not related to each other in more than one direction!

Still, with the damn Hatfields on one side, and the friggin Saracens on the other, it's not so much a family history of insanity, but that insanity *IS* the family history - that, brewing booze, running shine, and flipping the bird to the law.

-F

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Friday, March 25, 2011 4:58 AM

Mike, That's in part because the puritans believed in worshipping God by bonking like bunnies. Orgasmliness is close to godliness.

Magon, I thought holidays were derivative of the Hindu Holi. Seems most of our holidays come from some pagan thing.

ETA: The same site that had that also suggested alternative, that bye is a baby sound like hi, ma, and pa

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 2:16 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Also, I say "Gesundheit," when someone sneezes, because I think wishing good health to someone is far more appropriate than some sort of blessing.

Ooo, Rose, I like that. It’s always been a reflex for me, to say “bless you”, and I never knew gesundheit meant “good health”...I’m gonna try to remember that, thank you!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, March 25, 2011 3:36 PM