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Colorado police are defending their decision to pepper spray a crazed 8-year-old after the boy threw a violent tantrum in his classroom and threatened people with a sharp weapon.

The boy, identified only as Aiden, had been threatening, spitting and cursing at teachers in his second grade classroom in Lakewood, Colo., on Feb. 22 when schools officials called the cops.

When police arrived, the pint-sized perp was wielding a sharp piece of wood trim he had torn off the wall and was trying to stab teachers with it, cops said.

"I wanted to make something sharp if they came out because I was so mad at them," the boy later told Colorado's KUSA television. "I was going to try to whack them with it."

Cops ordered the boy to drop the stick, but the boy refused, shouting, "Get away from me you f---ers!" police said.

Officer then sprayed the boy with two doses of pepper spray and handcuffed him.

Aiden's mom, identified as Mandy, said that the boy had anger issues and that it was the third time teachers had called the cops after one of his tantrums.

Police spokesman Steve Davis defended the police.

"Our officers had to do something to diffuse the situation in a hurry before someone got hurt," Davis told KUSA.

"I think the officers made a great choice that day in choosing the pepper spray," he added.

Aiden's mom said her son was treated like "a common criminal."

"I'm sure what he was doing wasn't right, but he's 8 years old," she told the station.

Mandy said the boy was transferred to a school with behavior problems and had been seeing a doctor.

"I got like anger things," Aiden said. "It's just who I am. I think it's not ever going to go away."

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Aiden's mom said her son was treated like "a common criminal."

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Originally posted by Hardware:
Let's see which would make a better headline...

Cops use taser on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use billyclub on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use tonfa on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use nightstick on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use tear gas on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops pistol whip 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops gun down 8 year old during tantrum.

I kind of like gun down. Makes it seem all macho and exciting.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Nice to know we have our trustworthy supporters of violence against children.

ETA: Rap hadn't posted yet. I'm going to say he would be right except that I oppose drugging children. He probably need to not be locked in a prison at the time. He needed to get out and vent on a soccer ball.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Originally posted by Hardware:
The police used their least restrictive means to control the situation.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Hardware:
Let's see which would make a better headline...

Cops use taser on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use billyclub on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use tonfa on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use nightstick on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops use tear gas on 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops pistol whip 8 year old during tantrum.

Cops gun down 8 year old during tantrum.

I kind of like gun down. Makes it seem all macho and exciting.

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Imagine my surprise to find out that you favor gunning down children.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by Hardware:
The police used their least restrictive means to control the situation.

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The least restrictive means was to wrap your arms around him, have another teacher pry the wood trim from his hands.

He's 8 years old. He's not that big or strong. Really.

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Originally posted by Hardware:
In the parlance of police training they had an armed suspect threatening physical harm to the officers and bystanders. Rolling around on the ground with a suspect is not the first intervention used.

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Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I would like to think there might have been a more gentle approach, but I don't know what their options really were.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I would like to think there might have been a more gentle approach, but I don't know what their options really were.

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Their option was to act like human beings instead of trained robots and use less force on the child than they did. Yes, that really is an option, to treat a child with less force than you would treat an armed adult.

He was 8 years old, and he had a wood trim. Yes, a piece of wood that at worst, could scratch you. Where is everyone's common sense?

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This is a learned response. People are not born like this.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by Hardware:
In the parlance of police training they had an armed suspect threatening physical harm to the officers and bystanders. Rolling around on the ground with a suspect is not the first intervention used.

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Then their training is wrong.

They should train police officers to intervene differently with young children and disabled people, suspects who obviously can be controlled with less restrictive force than an able-bodied adult.

Their option was to act like human beings instead of trained robots and use less force on the child than they did. Yes, that really is an option, to treat a child with less force than you would treat an armed adult.

He was 8 years old, and he had a wood trim. Yes, a piece of wood that at worst, could scratch you. Where is everyone's common sense?

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
A sharp piece of wood can stab deep into your body, pierce an artery, and kill you. Or impale an eye.

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Originally posted by Hardware:
More training time, more costs, higher taxes, no municipality has infinite resources. You train your people for the most likely scenario.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I wonder what the root of that is?

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
"When dealing with disabled people or small, prepubescent children, use your common sense on the minimum force required to control the suspect. They are not enemy combatants, and you are allowed to use much less force to control the situation than with able-bodied adults."

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Originally posted by Geezer:
I suspect the police involved consider that they did use the minimum force required to subdue the kid without anyone being injured.

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Since you weren't there, how can you determine that their actions were or weren't appropriate?

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Common sense. Anyone who has had small kids knows grownups can restrain an 8 year old, wood trim or not, with physical force applied by one or two adults.

He is 8. He had a wood trim. The use of and injury with pepper spray is excessive for this situation.

This was not about minimum force to control the situation. This was about sufficient force to punish the child for his tantrum. It was "If you don't calm down on your own, we're going to spank you with pepper spray."

ETA: On the video, the mom said they didn't try to talk to him. If that is true, it is an egregious error on their part. They give hostage takers more respect. It supports my suspicion that this engagement was about punishing a "bad kid who needs to be taught a lesson" (as it were) and not about preventing injury.

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Originally posted by Hardware:

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Common sense. Anyone who has had small kids knows grownups can restrain an 8 year old, wood trim or not, with physical force applied by one or two adults.

He is 8. He had a wood trim. The use of and injury with pepper spray is excessive for this situation.

This was not about minimum force to control the situation. This was about sufficient force to punish the child for his tantrum. It was "If you don't calm down on your own, we're going to spank you with pepper spray."

ETA: On the video, the mom said they didn't try to talk to him. If that is true, it is an egregious error on their part. They give hostage takers more respect. It supports my suspicion that this engagement was about punishing a "bad kid who needs to be taught a lesson" (as it were) and not about preventing injury.

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You keep circling this, but I'm going to call you out on it. If more force than physical restraint was not needed, then why were the police called?

Seems to me that you want to point the finger of blame at the police. I think it should be pointed at the teacher, school staff and administration and the parents. The child is not expected to be in control of himself, he is a minor. But those other people have the responsibility to teach him self control and they have failed so far.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Nice to know we have our trustworthy supporters of violence against children.

ETA: Rap hadn't posted yet. I'm going to say he would be right except that I oppose drugging children. He probably need to not be locked in a prison at the time. He needed to get out and vent on a soccer ball.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Well, to be fair, children are probably the only ones they're capable of beating up. As Hardware himself said, it makes it seem all macho and manly that way.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
A sharp piece of wood can stab deep into your body, pierce an artery, and kill you. Or impale an eye.

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Yes, indeed, if it were wielded by Rambo. Or some convict in prison. Or crazy cat lady. Or someone who is actually full-size and strong.

I have small kids around that age. Not one of them could more than scratch me with a sharp piece of wood. Esp if I were actually trained in physical combat. (It's called dodging.)

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I actually have some reason to doubt that eight adults can restrain a child.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I actually have some reason to doubt that eight adults can restrain a child.

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I understand when kids get rageful like that, it is kind of like an unbroken horse bucking.

I understand that sometimes, it may not be easy to wrap your arms around a child so charged. It may not be easy to pursue some other method of control, such as negotiate or wait until he calms down. But sometimes we need to do what is hard and inconvenient to spare damage and injury to a human being. Esp a child.

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Originally posted by Hardware:
So, only police arms could have been wrapped around the child? Teacher or principal arms would have been insufficient or caused serious mental harm to the child?

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So, only police arms could have been wrapped around the child? Teacher or principal arms would have been insufficient or caused serious mental harm to the child?

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I suspect the police involved consider that they did use the minimum force required to subdue the kid without anyone being injured. Since you weren't there, how can you determine that their actions were or weren't appropriate?

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Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
If you leave the kid alone by himself he could hurt himself ...

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Originally posted by Hardware:
You keep circling this, but I'm going to call you out on it. If more force than physical restraint was not needed, then why were the police called?

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Seems to me that you want to point the finger of blame at the police. I think it should be pointed at the teacher, school staff and administration and the parents. The child is not expected to be in control of himself, he is a minor.

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But those other people have the responsibility to teach him self control and they have failed so far.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I don't think this is as simple as not eating vegetables. The only scenario I can think of where a kid would think to make a shank at that young an age is a very, very bad environment.

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Nice to know we have our trustworthy supporters of violence against children.

ETA: Rap hadn't posted yet. I'm going to say he would be right except that I oppose drugging children. He probably need to not be locked in a prison at the time. He needed to get out and vent on a soccer ball.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Well, to be fair, children are probably the only ones they're capable of beating up. As Hardware himself said, it makes it seem all macho and manly that way.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Kinda funny, you and tough talk. There is not an ounce of doubt that I(black woman) would beat the fuck out of you(gay white male) in seconds if ever in the same room together. Problem is we can never be in the same room together. You hang around in bathhouses and I prefer pubs....stright is straight, gay is gay, and never the twain shall meet.....

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Sorry, the "tough talk" was, and usually is, all coming from the side of dipshit right-wingers like you. (Look at your own post, and at Hardware's, for good examples.)

Seems lots of right-wing assholes around here get their jollies talking tough, and bragging about beating up children, or shooting them, and take quite a bit of joy in the idea of using pepper spray on them. Heck, that's no doubt why so many of them go into law enforcement.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Nice to know we have our trustworthy supporters of violence against children.

ETA: Rap hadn't posted yet. I'm going to say he would be right except that I oppose drugging children. He probably need to not be locked in a prison at the time. He needed to get out and vent on a soccer ball.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Well, to be fair, children are probably the only ones they're capable of beating up. As Hardware himself said, it makes it seem all macho and manly that way.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Kinda funny, you and tough talk. There is not an ounce of doubt that I(black woman) would beat the fuck out of you(gay white male) in seconds if ever in the same room together. Problem is we can never be in the same room together. You hang around in bathhouses and I prefer pubs....stright is straight, gay is gay, and never the twain shall meet.....

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Sorry, the "tough talk" was, and usually is, all coming from the side of dipshit right-wingers like you. (Look at your own post, and at Hardware's, for good examples.)

Seems lots of right-wing assholes around here get their jollies talking tough, and bragging about beating up children, or shooting them, and take quite a bit of joy in the idea of using pepper spray on them. Heck, that's no doubt why so many of them go into law enforcement.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You are just a nasty piece of work. I'm glad you identify with the fiscal conservatives, because they can have you. But since when did being a social liberal involve using gay as an insult and calling people cunts? Deluded, stupid as well as nasty. You really did hit the jackpot when they were handing out personality flaws.

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Originally posted by Hardware:


You are consistently hilarious Kwicko. Wrong, but just bang on funny.

I'm not right wing. I'm politically and economically conservative and socially liberal. Basically I'm libertarian.

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Maybe from as far left as your posts make you appear this looks like right wing, but it isn't.

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