REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bets on federal shutdown?

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 08:06
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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:30 AM

CANTTAKESKY


What do you think? Will it happen or not?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/05/house-senate-leaders-head-w
hite-house-ditch-dealing-budget
/

Quote:

The impasse between the White House and Congress increasingly looks like it will force the government to shut down by the weekend, with a spending summit yielding no deal on Tuesday.

President Obama said he would like to meet with congressional leaders every day until the stalemate over funding the government for the rest of the fiscal year is solved, but as of Tuesday evening no additional meetings were on the calendar.

"Myself, Joe Biden, my team -- we are prepared to meet for as long as possible to this resolved," a visibly frustrated Obama said during a surprise appearance at the White House briefing room.

The Tuesday summit with the president, House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Majority leader Harry Reid seemed only to aggravate the two sides, and a followup meeting between the two congressional leaders didn’t seem to make any progress of funding the government through Sept. 30.

Despite the stalemate, the key players say a federal shutdown is not the goal.






http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-04-07-shutdown07_ST_N.htm

Quote:

WASHINGTON — As the government neared a partial shutdown that would stall tax refunds, shutter national parks and delay paychecks to troops in combat, President Obama and congressional leaders stepped up budget negotiations Wednesday night as agencies prepared contingency plans.



Among a host of services and programs that would be scaled back or halted:

•Tax refunds for those who have filed their returns by mail would be delayed. Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Doug Shulman said those filed electronically won't be affected because those returns are processed automatically. Last year, about 70% of taxpayers e-filed their returns.

•In Charleston, S.C., events next week to mark the 150th anniversary of the firing on Fort Sumter, which marked the first battle of the Civil War, could be called off. The fort in Charleston Harbor, along with the National Park Service's visitors center, would be shuttered.

•In the nation's capital, which gets much of its funding from the federal government, garbage pickup will be put off for a week, and public libraries will close.

Who'll get the blame for such inconveniences remains to be seen.

Asked Tuesday who's doing a better job in efforts to agree on a new budget, 41% said Democrats and 34% said Republicans in a new Gallup Poll. Asked the same question six weeks ago, 39% said Democrats and 42% said Republicans.

Respondents were more likely to agree with Republicans about the depth of cuts necessary, however: 45% say Obama and Democrats aren't cutting enough, while only 32% say Republican cuts go too far. Still, few want a shutdown: 58% of respondents say they want a compromise, even if it results in a budget they disagree with, compared with 33% who said their side should hold out for what they want. The poll of 1,014 adults has a margin of error of +/–4 percentage points.


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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:55 AM

BYTEMITE


I'd doubt it, even if I didn't think Gallup polls are just propaganda in a graph.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:28 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't think we'll have a government shutdown (I question whether the term has any real validity, in fact. I suspect government will march on somehow, and that there is a plan in place to do so.)

I am *curious* to see what a real government shutdown would look like. I don't think I'll ever find out. It's too bad, because a lot of people discuss the absence of Federal government, but we have no living-memory examples of what life is like under that scenario.

I'd love to shut down the government for four years just as a fact-finding project... if only millions of people weren't likely to suffer for the sake of that knowledge.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:33 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I'd love to shut down the government for four years just as a fact-finding project... if only millions of people weren't likely to suffer for the sake of that knowledge.

I'd love to see it too.

But the economy would have to be stronger to absorb the droves of unemployed. If there were a transition plan that shored up manufacturing industries to create new jobs, then I'd be all over it.

I say that as a spouse of a federal employee.




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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:20 AM

FREMDFIRMA



You know these are dark times when I have come to treasure and admire the cynicism of the american people.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 9:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


I was interested that the American Federation of Government Employees, one of the biggest Federal unions, is suing the Administration because the Office of Management and Budget will not respond to a FOIA request that they release plans for the government shutdown. It's been surmised by some folk who have been following Federal employee issues for some time that the White House actually wants folks to not know what's going to happen.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 11:02 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
I was interested that the American Federation of Government Employees, one of the biggest Federal unions, is suing the Administration because the Office of Management and Budget will not respond to a FOIA request that they release plans for the government shutdown. It's been surmised by some folk who have been following Federal employee issues for some time that the White House actually wants folks to not know what's going to happen.

That is indeed interesting.



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Thursday, April 7, 2011 11:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I keep hearing that the President has the authority to deem which parts of the Gov are vital or not.






" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 11:38 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


When I was a little girl the government had a shut down and nothing happened, things just went on as usual, at least as far as I could tell at age nine or however old I was. It wasn't that uge of a thing. So I reckon this one would be similar?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 11:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
When I was a little girl the government had a shut down and nothing happened, things just went on as usual, at least as far as I could tell at age nine or however old I was. It wasn't that uge of a thing. So I reckon this one would be similar?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Are you talking about under Clinton ? Back in the mid 90's ?

Not much happened, save for a bunch of stuff that need not be paid for by the Govt in the first place gets shuts down for a few days.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Like the wars. Could definitely do with shutting those down.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:08 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I wish. In a dream, I can imagine private citizens putting together a collection to buy the gas and vehicle maintenance needed to transport our troops home.

The reality is that the military won't run out of cash until every single other public service has been sucked dry.

--Anthony



Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Like the wars. Could definitely do with shutting those down.







" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:59 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yup, I mean under Clinton in the mid 90s.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:31 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I wish. In a dream, I can imagine private citizens putting together a collection to

That's a nice dream. I would chip in, even if I have to go hungry.




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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I wish. In a dream, I can imagine private citizens putting together a collection to

That's a nice dream. I would chip in, even if I have to go hungry.



Yes indeed. It's funny that some consider "Support the Troops" to only mean sending them off to die. Once they come home, these so-called "patriots" have no use for those soldiers, especially if they happen to be injured or psychologically damaged.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 3:04 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I wish. In a dream, I can imagine private citizens putting together a collection to

That's a nice dream. I would chip in, even if I have to go hungry.



Yes indeed. It's funny that some consider "Support the Troops" to only mean sending them off to die. Once they come home, these so-called "patriots" have no use for those soldiers, especially if they happen to be injured or psychologically damaged.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



Just saw over on CNN.com, a list of what will go on and what will stop-- Military personnel including those in Iraq and Afghanistan, will continue to earn their wages, but won't get paid.

Wonder if the gov't will still provide them bullets to shoot, or if they'll have to bring their own? Wonder , if somebody gets KIA, he has to die or not?

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 3:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, if that soldier gets killed, he DEFINITELY doesn't get paid!


But that's because conservatives hate the troops.


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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:59 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
When I was a little girl the government had a shut down and nothing happened, things just went on as usual, at least as far as I could tell at age nine or however old I was. It wasn't that uge of a thing. So I reckon this one would be similar?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



^This.

Nothing happened. There was more political fallout than there was physical. Happened over the winter of '95-'96.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:11 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, if that soldier gets killed, he DEFINITELY doesn't get paid!


But that's because conservatives hate the troops.





Not really. It is because the liberals and neo-cons have spent the troops money...and the troops children's money....and the troops grandkids money...and they spent it all on free abortions for poor slutty people and bombs.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:16 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
It's funny that some consider "Support the Troops" to only mean sending them off to die.

I'm more of the "Support the troops. Bring them home." variety. The only way to support them is to value their lives and not send them off on security missions for corporations that own our govt.




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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:31 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
It's funny that some consider "Support the Troops" to only mean sending them off to die.

I'm more of the "Support the troops. Bring them home." variety. The only way to support them is to value their lives and not send them off on security missions for corporations that own our govt.






See, you are whimmmmmppy. Read and comment on my post three up.....Really? You know I'm right...call Kwicko on his parENTenSHIp....Or get out of the way....Why us libertard's fail....

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Friday, April 8, 2011 1:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
It's funny that some consider "Support the Troops" to only mean sending them off to die.

I'm more of the "Support the troops. Bring them home." variety. The only way to support them is to value their lives and not send them off on security missions for corporations that own our govt.






See, you are whimmmmmppy. Read and comment on my post three up.....Really? You know I'm right...call Kwicko on his parENTenSHIp....Or get out of the way....Why us libertard's fail....




Wow. One or two of those words were actually WORDS!


Meth is a dangerous drug.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, April 8, 2011 1:58 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
See, you are whimmmmmppy.

Ron Paul agrees with me. He has been unequivocally against the War on Terror, Iraq, and Afghanistan from the get go.

Is he a "whimpy" libertard too?

This is why I cannot stand the Tea Party. They say they are "libertarian," but then want the biggest government they can buy to bomb brown people.




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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
This is why I cannot stand the Tea Party. They say they are "libertarian," but then want the biggest government they can buy to bomb brown people.


Is the Tea Party bombing brown people in Libya? No, Obama is.

Is the Tea Party bombing brown people in Afghanistan? No, Obama is.

Is the Tea Party bombing brown people in Pakistan? No, Obama is.


The Tea Party wants limited government and less national debt. They are trying to do that now in Congress. I have never heard any Tea Partyer call for a bigger governement. You have? Cite it please. I have never heard the Tea Party advocate for bombing brown people. You have? Cite it please.








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Friday, April 8, 2011 4:04 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

CTS: They say they are "libertarian," but then want the biggest government they can buy to bomb brown people.

Is the Tea Party bombing brown people in Libya? No, Obama is.
Is the Tea Party bombing brown people in Afghanistan? No, Obama is.
Is the Tea Party bombing brown people in Pakistan? No, Obama is.

Uh, cause the TP isn't in charge and doesn't have the authority to bomb brown people in Libya, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Obama is in charge, so yeah, he's doing it and not them. Other than needling Obama whenever they can, they're not protesting though, see?

Notice I said they WANT to bomb brown people. In other words, they WANT a bigger military and they WANT that military to engage in countries filled with brown people.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I have never heard any Tea Partyer call for a bigger governement. You have? Cite it please.



1. Stronger Military

http://www.teaparty.org/about.php#what

These are listed under their non-negotiable core beliefs.

"Stronger Military Is Essential.
Government Must Be Downsized."

How do you get a stronger military except with bigger government (bigger govt/Pentagon budget, more laws and benefits favorable to the military, more power for the military)?

2. Voting records.

Look below for a sample of the voting records of TP'iers (TP Caucus). You'll find they want smaller govt in some areas, but BIGGER, more intrusive govt in others, and it is not just the military. Most of them support the Patriot Act, abortion restrictions, immigration enforcement, War on Drugs, banning same-sex marriage, etc.

For all TP politicians, see here.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_Tea_Party_polit
icians


Then go here and look up their voting records.
http://www.ontheissues.org/House.htm

There are 14 members of the TP Caucus. I am posting only half of them just so you can see the pattern.

Quote:

Robert Aderholt

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Robert_Aderholt.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
* Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
* Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
* Voted NO on disallowing the invasion of Kosovo. (May 1999)
* Solidarity with Israel in its fight against terrorism. (Apr 2002)
* Strengthen sanctions on Syria & assist democratic transition. (Apr 2008)
* Sanctions on Iran to end nuclear program. (Apr 2009)


Quote:

Joe Wilson

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Joe_Wilson.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
* Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
* Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
* Strengthen sanctions on Syria & assist democratic transition. (Apr 2008)
* Sanctions on Iran to end nuclear program. (Apr 2009)


Quote:

Louie Gohmert

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Louie_Gohmert.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
* Strengthen sanctions on Syria & assist democratic transition. (Apr 2008)
* Sanctions on Iran to end nuclear program. (Apr 2009)


Quote:

Gus Bilirakis

http://www.ontheissues.org/FL/Gus_Bilirakis.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
* Strengthen sanctions on Syria & assist democratic transition. (Apr 2008)
* Sanctions on Iran to end nuclear program. (Apr 2009)


Quote:

Joe Barton

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Joe_Linus_Barton.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
* Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
* Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
* Voted YES on disallowing the invasion of Kosovo. (May 1999)
* Solidarity with Israel in its fight against terrorism. (Apr 2002)


Quote:

Michele Bachman

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Michele_Bachmann.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq.
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days.
* Sanctions on Iran to end nuclear program.


Quote:

Roscoe Bartlett

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Roscoe_Bartlett.htm

* Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq.
* Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days.
* Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date.
* Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops.
* Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq.
* Voted YES on disallowing the invasion of Kosovo.
* Sanctions on Iran to end nuclear program.



Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I have never heard the Tea Party advocate for bombing brown people. You have? Cite it please.

"Bombing brown people" is a nod to George Carlin's stand up routine on "Americans and War." (Search Youtube for that video.) I use it as a dysphemism for hearty support for the War in Iraq and War in Afghanistan.

The TP practices military quasi-worship. Most things to do with the military is accepted few questions, and excepted from their usual principles. They are the ultimate "Support our Troops" fanboys.

Military worship is esp true under a Republican administration. Under a Democratic administration, their hatred of the Dem Party sometimes exceeds their love of the military. For example, they are holding Obama to a higher standard for starting the War in Libya than they did Bush for starting the War in Iraq. So they still support the troops, but they are going to weave their reservations and criticisms of Obama into that support somehow.

Here is an example of military fanboyism, in my view, where a candidate for congress is enthusiastically supported by TP'iers despite having killed 2 unarmed Iraqi civilians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/us-veteran-killed-iraqis-t
ea-party


Move America Forward is a pro-war organization founded and maintained by high profile TP'iers, Howard Kaloogian and Sal Russo.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Move_America_Forward

The embrace of unofficial TP "spokespeople" such as Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck adds to this big picture and broad pattern of TP'iers wanting bigger govt when it comes to the military and military engagements.

To be fair, some factions of the TP continue to be loyal to Ron Paul's convictions, such as the Boston Tea Party.

http://inewp.com/?tag=u-s-war-crimes-in-iraq

Or

Quote:

Rand Paul

http://senate.ontheissues.org/Senate/Rand_Paul.htm
Would have voted against a declaration of war against Iraq. (Feb 2010)

http://senate.ontheissues.org/International/Rand_Paul_War_+_Peace.htm
"The strange thing about Hussein & Iraq is that we actually had been their biggest ally for 20 years because we saw them as a bulwark against the Iranian dominance of the region. I don't think there was a reason to go into Iraq," he said.



But I see them as the exception, rather than the rule.






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Friday, April 8, 2011 6:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Well done, Sky. You have illustrated well what I have tried to say for years.

The Tea Party of today is not Ron Paul's dream. It is a hypocritical nightmare.

The moment the Tea Party became a threat, the Republican party bought it. Now the few who hold to the original values are lost in a sea of opposition voices.

The majority of current Tea Party luminaries are unable to propose a world where the U.S. does not maintain itself as a military giant at the expense of the American people. Ron Paul not only wanted the wars ended yesterday, he wanted our military presence around the world ended yesterday. It wasn't a fringe belief of his. It was a core belief of his. That belief was the first thing the Republicans purchased and flushed down the toilet when they brought the Tea Party into the mainstream.

This is what I have observed since 2007-2008. The bright blue 'Ron Paul for President' bumper sticker on my car is a relic from a Tea Party that no longer exists.

--Anthony



Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Friday, April 8, 2011 7:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, if that soldier gets killed, he DEFINITELY doesn't get paid!


But that's because Liberals LOATHE the troops.





Fixed that for ya.

" I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military,..." . - Bill Clinton


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, April 8, 2011 9:15 AM

KANEMAN



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Friday, April 8, 2011 1:37 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I'm more of the "Support the troops. Bring them home." variety. The only way to support them is to value their lives and not send them off on security missions for corporations that own our govt.
Moi aussi, as my bumpersticker reads. But I can’t help noticing that there’s a lot of scorn for people who object to wars as being “unpatriotic” or sometimes downright “treasonous” and that we’re supposed to support the war or we’re not supporting the troops, and that those who are quick to ensure that the DOD gets its bucks aren’t so quick to ensure that the vets who came home get a proper VA (but are DAMNED sure the rich get their tax cuts!), or that those with social agendas are quite happy to leave troops’ families without a paycheck rather than compromise...
Quote:

This is why I cannot stand the Tea Party. They say they are "libertarian," but then want the biggest government they can buy to bomb brown people.
Moi aussi as well. But you forgot “will say it’s all about the economy and the budget, but screw millions of their paychecks over abortion”. Oh, and have the mentality of “it’s my way or I’m taking my ball and going home!”

JS, I’m guessing you’re joking:
Quote:

The Tea Party wants limited government and less national debt. They are trying to do that now in Congress. I have never heard any Tea Partyer call for a bigger governement. You have? Cite it please.
The “Tea Party” voted Walker in; eventually he ADMITTED his “Budget Relief” wasn’t about the budget and took the union-busting measures out and slipped THEM through illegally...that’s not about smaller government. Right now the Tea Party “caucus” in the House is holding the budget up, not because of the money, but because they want their SOCIAL PROGRAMS to go through... They want everything THEY want, or the rest of the country can go to hell.

Anyone who thinks the ’95 shutting down of the government is someone who wasn’t affected by it. Those of us who WERE, don’t think it was “nothing”. It won’t bother any of you this time, either, you’ll think “nothing” happened...but you won’t be the ones trying to pay your mortgage or buy food without a paycheck. Retroactive is a word bills don’t understand, nor do stomachs.

Thank you THANK YOU CTS...you just saved me a LOT of time looking stuff like that up. The “please cite” was just so incredible I thought JS was joking...tho I was pretty sure he wasn’t! Yes,
Quote:

The moment the Tea Party became a threat, the Republican party bought it. Now the few who hold to the original values are lost in a sea of opposition voices.
But now the Repubs have bought it, they’re STUCK with it and finding the Tea Party has JUST enough power to hogtie THEM as well as everyone else. We can’t know, but I’ll betcha if there were no newly-elected Tea Partiers in Congress, we wouldn’t have a shutdown looming. The Repubs would have put up a number, Dems would have countered, and they’d have met somewhere in the middle...and the fucking SOCIAL AGENDA wouldn’t even be ON the agenda! The Tea Partiers of today want it their way—right or wrong, moral or immoral, and they want big government to tell people how to live and fund the military.

From what I’ve heard of Ron Paul and looked up on my own since being here, he had some good ideas. Some were naïve, some were nuts, but what he stood for and what the Tea Party once was is nothing like what the supposed “Tea Party” is today. They’ve shown quite CLEARLY that they want bigger government...when it comes to our LIVES, like who we marry, whether our children should be taught about evolution, prayer in schools, busting unions—they’re not the real Tea Party, they’re the “Religious/Right Wing/Tea Party” CROSS. We get the worst of all three worlds.

Raptor, you didn’t understand...but then that’s not unexpected. “The Troops” are a whole different thing from “The Military”. The military is the DOD, military contractors, payoffs, elderly white Generals. The troops are the poor guys who get killed and wounded obeying THEIR ORDERS. The guys who came home during the Bush administration to find the “hospitals” they were supposed to be treated by were worm-infested shitholes, but by gawd, the rich deserved tax cuts! I honor our troops, and I’m one of those Clinton spoke of; I love my country and loathe the military. You kinda just made our point for us.

There's not a bloody thing "wimpy" about valuing the lives of soldiers and not wanting them to be pawns of those already benefitting from war mongering; it's actually LOVING the troops not to want to spread them around the world willy-nilly so rich contractors can get no-bid contracts and get richer.

The Tea Party of today is quite happy to have soldiers’ wives and kids try to make ends meet so they can get their abortion agenda met. They’re quite happy to let millions suffer unless their opponents give in to absolutely EVERY ONE of their demands. They thought they had a free hand to rape America; hopefully they’ll find out otherwise, or we’re in even deeper shit than Bush left us. They’ve already overplayed their hand in Wisconsin, we’ll have to see how it goes from here. I think they're just spoiled, power-hungry children who want what they want or else.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Let's try what the "Tea Party" is doing to make the government "smaller" in Florida:
Quote:

In the next 30 days, Florida lawmakers are poised to make it easier for insurance companies to raise rates, make it more difficult for women to receive an abortion and hand over control of prisons to private companies.

These are just a few of the proposals the Republican-led Legislature is pushing in the final weeks of its 60-day session. Others include radically changing the way the state handles Medicaid, state pensions, courts, growth and the environment.

The proposals are detailed, sweeping and encompass many conservative issues that legislators have resisted enacting in the past. And they are moving forward for one reason: They have the votes.

With a veto-proof majority, a hard-right conservative governor, and a determination to seize the moment in a non­election year, legislative leaders have packed the agenda — and Democrats are powerless to stop them.

"You've got a very conservative governor, president and speaker, so they've gone down some roads that people have kind of been afraid to go down before," said Sen. Mike Bennett, R-Bradenton.

The governor has already signed major legislation to change the way teachers are paid and to reduce compensation for the unemployed, and the Legislature has overridden seven vetoes of former Gov. Charlie Crist.

Next up are dozens of bills that remove government oversight, dismantle regulations and shift state jobs to the private sector. Also on the docket are plans to ask voters to amend the state Constitution to remove the ban on providing tax dollars to religious organizations, to make it easier for the Legislature to overturn rules imposed by the state Supreme Court, to ban public funding of abortions and to prohibit any laws requiring a person to buy health insurance.

Previous legislatures have tried and failed to pass similar bills. Among them:

Allowing Citizens Property Insurance to raise its rates up to 25 percent and restrict homeowners with property valued at more than $500,000. (note: government power used to increase profits)

Requiring all women to undergo an ultrasound before having an abortion. (note: bigger, more intrustive, government)

• Shifting all Medicaid patients into managed care plans. (reads: "privatize")

• Banning government unions from deducting dues from worker paychecks.

• Capping attorney fees in auto insurance disputes and restricting lawsuits against hospitals, nursing homes, doctors and foster care providers. (note: enlarging legislation--government--power)

• Removing the state from development decisions and reducing the ability of local governments to charge developers for the cost of roads and schools (increase state government power over local governments, and losing government money).

• Allowing private companies to run prisons and probation services in 18 counties. ("privatizing" dealing with criminals to increase profits for prison businesses)

Republican leaders say the proposals are a response to voter outrage — fueled by tea party activists in Florida and nationwide — to reduce government and balance the budget with no new taxes in the face of a $3.8 million shortfall. Democrats say the ideas are moving because there is nothing to stand in their way.

"They're exercising that muscle now because they can — not because they're right, not because that's what people want, but because they can," said Rep. Jim Waldman, D-Coconut Creek.

Bennett (Republican) admits it makes him uneasy. "I get nervous when we have one party control everything and you don't have to negotiate, you don't have to go to the middle," he said.

A small number of Republican moderates have joined the Democrats[/u[] to point out that the no-new-taxes pledge is shrouded by the Legislature's plans to require public employees to pay a portion of their retirement costs, increase property insurance rates, raise utility rates for renewable energy and increase college tuition.

"Any time you vote for something that's going to hurt the pocketbooks of every home­owner in the state of Florida, every small businessman or woman in the state of Florida, that's a tax," said Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey. (Republican)

Senate President Mike Haridopolos said that when workers contribute to their own pension, it "is not a tax increase." He defends the utility, tuition and insurance increases as a necessary evil. ("necessary evil" doesn't make them not taxes...when your costs are more, it's the same as being taxed by the government)

Others warn that by using the budget as a backdrop and the federal government as a foil for their broad policy shifts, the Legislature may be going too far.

"It's probably the strongest antifederalism we've had since Jim Crow days or a vote to secede," said Sen. Thad Altman, R-Viera (Republican). He said he considers himself a fiscal conservative but is frightened by the "antifederalism sentiment" of the governor and legislative leaders who have rejected billions of federal dollars for health care, transportation and infrastructure. "That's misdirected. I think it's going to be a huge mistake."

"I think we're doing exactly what the people sent us up here to do — which is recognize the severity of the economic crisis we're in, the need for bold leadership to make unpopular, tough decisions,'' said House Speaker Dean Cannon, R-Winter Park. (Then why reject already-allocated funds in a "severe economic crisis"?)

Gov. Rick Scott echoed Cannon's opinion. "We've got to make sure this is the best place to do business and so I'm going to make the tough choices," Scott said last week. (The best place for businesses maybe, but how about for PEOPLE to LIVE?? Oh, wait, they don't care about the people...)

Advocates for groups fighting the changes, however, say the sheer number of policy shifts and the steady pace at which House and Senate leaders have been pushing them has made it difficult, if not impossible, to stop.

David Murrell of the Police Benevolent Association, one of the public employee unions fighting the benefits cuts, puts it bluntly: "On some of these issues, these folks don't want the public to catch up."

Senate Budget Committee Chairman J.D. Alexander, R-Lake Wales, said Alexander scrapped one pension reform bill compromise with another bill that more than doubled cuts.

"Votes are locked down before you even get into a committee meeting," said Eric Draper of the Florida Audubon Association. "The Democrats have no chance of stopping anything. They are irrelevant for the most part."

Senate Democratic leader Nan Rich of Weston said she disagrees that Republicans were given the mandate they claim to have. "They were given a mandate to fix the economy and create jobs and not turn the state upside down," she said. "The pendulum will swing back. It always does."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/gubernatorial/republicans-in-leg
islature-hold-all-the-political-cards/1161357


That's not "smaller government", that's "agenda run wild" and "screw the little people, THEY'RE not the ones paying us the big bucks!"


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


By the way, Rand Paul voted FOR U.S. involvement in Libya.



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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:25 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Debate over federal spending levels no longer is driving the federal government toward an expected shutdown, according to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. It’s turned into a deadlock over a raft of conservative policy “riders” that Republicans have insisted be a part of a budget bill, the Nevada Democrat says.

Republicans have been pushing to attach non-budget legislation they favor — such as abolishing funds for Planned Parenthood and curtailing pollution enforcement at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) — to whatever measure lawmakers agree to in order to keep the government running beyond Friday.

This debate used to be about saving money. That is no longer the case,” Reid says in remarks Thursday on the Senate floor. “The Tea Party is trying to push through its extreme social agenda – issues that have nothing to do with funding the government.

“We are very close on the cuts and how we make them. The only things – I repeat, the only things – holding up an agreement are women’s health and clean air,” he adds.

“This is an extreme agenda that has no place in this bill. This is a budget. This is a bill to keep the country running. It’s not a women’s health bill. It’s not an environmental bill,” he adds. “We will not solve in one night disagreements this country has been having for 40 years. That is not realistic. Right now, we have to be realistic. This isn’t the time – and we don’t have the time – to fight over the Tea Party’s extreme social agenda.”

http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2011/04/07/tea-partys-extreme-social-age
nda-now-fueling-shutdown-majority-leader-says
/

Damn straight. Oh, those “riders”?
Quote:

Abortion

The abortion rider that's received the most attention would prohibit the government from giving any money to Planned Parenthood. That passed as an amendment on the House floor. However, written into the base bill is a provision that would eliminate Title X -- a program that provides funding for family planning clinics across the country -- altogether.

But there's one in there, too, which would prohibit the city of Washington, D.C., from using its own, non-federal funds to pay for abortions, beyond the accepted limits for the use of federal funds -- rape, incest, or life of the mother. It also blocks funding for the U.S. Ambassador's Fund for Cultural Preservation, the UN Population Fund, and any foreign NGOs that use non-U.S. funds to provide abortions.

The Environment

Before the House passed its spending bill, it tacked on several anti-environmental amendments to limit EPA authority. In particular, Republicans want to prevent the EPA from complying with a Supreme Court ruling requiring it to regulate green house gas pollution. One section of the base bill would prevent the EPA from proposing, implementing or enforcing rules to mitigate emissions of pollution.

On top of that additional specific amendments would block the EPA from limiting, or tightening limits on, toxic cement plant emissions and particulate emissions. Rep. Don Young (R-AK) secured an amendment that would exempt oil drilling activities in Alaska from EPA regulations.
Other riders would prevent the EPA from executing a plan to clean up the Chesapeake Bay, strip it of its power to prevent water pollution that endangers animals, and block them from setting regulations regarding the containment and handling of coal ash.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/riders-caused-the-storm-ant
i-abortion-and-anti-environment-measures-threaten-government-shutdown.php


You wanna see what they DEMAND we accept (yes “we”, the American people, we live here, we’re the ones who won’t be protected, who won’t know what's in our air and water)?

Just take a look: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/dgoldston/anti-environmental_riders_
in_h.html


Here’s a couple just to give you a taste. THERE ARE 19, by the way:
Quote:

Section 1475(b) would block the restoration of California’s San Joaquin River. This restoration agreement was supported by environmentalists, fishermen, farmers, urban water agencies, the Bush Administration, California’s Republican governor and even former Congressman Richard Pombo (AND CALIFORNIANS! We desperately need this). This rider would degrade water quality for millions of California residents and farmers, damage salmon restoration efforts, and reduce water supplies.

An amendment which would block EPA and other agencies from conducting meaningful oversight of mountaintop removal coal mining operations.

An amendment which would effectively strip EPA of its authority under the Clean Water Act to prohibit or restrict certain discharges that would have an “unacceptable adverse effect” on water, fish or wildlife.

An amendment which would prevent EPA from establishing minimum standards for the disposal and handling of coal ash as a hazardous waste. Coal ash is a well-documented threat to human health and the environment, and due to largely unregulated dumping, poses a threat to our waterways and drinking water.

An amendment which would prevent EPA from limiting toxic emissions from cement plants. The amendment would block the EPA's efforts to keep 16,000 pounds of mercury a year out of the air.



But hey, ho, we don’t need all that, do we? Who cares if our water, air, land has some coal, coal ash, soot, mercury or other stuff in it? Who cares about degraded water, polluted air and stuff like that? It’s the “budget”, so despite the fact that this doesn’t do a DAMNED THING for the budget, those Tea Party novices know what’s important. They know what’s best for us, and by gawd, we better give it to ‘em or they’ll shut down the government! You betcha!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What's REALLY interesting about this is what the supposed "Tea Party" hadto say to the GOP last November:
Quote:

In a letter to be released Monday, the group GOProud and leaders from groups like the Tea Party Patriots and the New American Patriots, will urge Republicans in the House and Senate to keep their focus on shrinking the government.

"On behalf of limited-government conservatives everywhere, we write to urge you and your colleagues in Washington to put forward a legislative agenda in the next Congress that reflects the principles of the Tea Party movement," they write to presumptive House Speaker John Boehner and Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell in an advance copy provided to POLITICO. "This election was not a mandate for the Republican Party, nor was it a mandate to act on any social issue."

The letter's signatories range from GOProud's co-founder and Chairman Christopher Barron — a member of a group encouraging Dick Cheney to run for president — to Tea Party leaders with no particular interest in the gay rights movement. [Dick Cheney is in favor of smaller government???]

As of Sunday evening, the letter had 17 signatories. They include tea party organizers, conservative activists and media personalities from across the country, including radio host Tammy Bruce, bloggers Bruce Carroll, Dan Blatt and Doug Welch, and various local coordinators for the Tea Party Patriots and other tea party groups.

"When they were out in the Boston Harbor, they weren't arguing about who was gay or who was having an abortion," said Ralph King, a letter signatory who is a Tea Party Patriots national leadership council member, as well as an Ohio co-coordinator.

King said he signed onto the letter because GOProud seemed to be genuine in pushing for fiscal conservatism and limited government.

"Am I going to be the best man at a same sex-marriage wedding? That's not something I necessarily believe in," said King. "I look at myself as pretty socially conservative. But that's not what we push through the Tea Party Patriots."

That indifference is essentially the point of the gay conservative group.

"For almost two years now, the tea party has been laser-focused on the size of government," said Barron, who said his group and the tea partiers are part of the "leave-me-alone coalition."

"No one has been talking about social issues - not even the socially conservative candidates who won tea party support," Barron said.

Economic and social conservatives have sparred for months over the priority of questions like abortion and gay rights even as conservative energy on issues of debt, taxation and, above all, the size of government fueled the Republican Party's dramatic recovery since Barack Obama's election.

And while their agendas often overlap - foes of abortion and big government alike opposed the health care overhaul - the small-government impulses of the new conservative grassroots groups have sometimes come into conflict with the desire of religious conservatives to give the federal government a moral role. Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels was recently pilloried by social conservative leaders for calling for a "truce" on divisive social issues.

Polling has shown that Tea Party members hold socially conservative views, but don't consider issues like abortion a top priority. But social conservative grassroots played a key role in a handful of election campaigns, including the ouster of three pro-gay marriage Iowa judges. Exit polls last week also suggested that some gay voters had shifted toward Republican ranks, with about a third of self-identified gays backing Republican House candidates.

Barron and the tea party organizers behind the letter hope to get other tea party groups to sign on after the formal unveiling Monday.

"We're not talking about pushing social conservatives out of the tea party movement. Those people aren't only welcome but they're a critical part of this movement." said Barron.

But ideas like the one Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) floated about banning gay teachers run counter to the tea party ethos, Barron argues. "How is that limited government?" he said.

The alliance underscores many of the tensions and divisions in the freewheeling, leaderless tea party movement. While GOProud is ambivalent on the issue of same-sex marriage, it does openly advocate the repeal of the military's"Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy - something some of the letter's tea party signatories disagreed strongly with.

Tea Party Patriots Maine coordinator Andrew Ian Dodge said that pushing DADT repeal would be a distraction from fiscal issues like deregulation and lowering taxes and he hopes that the letter also reminds GOProud of this fact.

"It is a little bit of a distraction," said Dodge about the possible repeal of DADT. "Why divide our forces?"

Ultimately, the tea party forces sympathetic to the GOProud letter said they just want to focus on fiscal issues, even if they personally hold socially conservative views.

Letter signatory Everett Wilkinson, coordinator of the Florida Tea Party Patriots, said that his group encourages people interested in social issues to find an outlet for their passions - just not the Tea Party Patriots. "We really don't focus on any social issues," he said.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45110.html#ixzz1IytDkPyY

So which is it? Did they lose their way? Were they lying then? Did all this power go to their heads and make them change their minds? Or was it all just for show? Because I’ve heard members of the ”tea party caucus” in Congress saying quite clearly that these “riders” are vital and they won’t vote for a budget without them. So?

Either way, this is what they want now, and this definitely ain't your Ron Paul's Tea Party.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, April 9, 2011 9:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Pfffth, buncha wimps, of COURSE they don't dare shut it down cause it'd leave some of us questioning why we need it at all, most of it - many of its supposed functions could not only be localized, but would be more efficient and accountable if they were.

Meanwhile Belgium keeps on keepin on.

Belgium's World Record
The European country has gone nearly 300 days without a government.
http://www.slate.com/id/2289797/

The royals *seem* to be quietly laughing up their sleeves about this, but so far have kept a very low profile.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 10:55 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, Rand Paul voted FOR U.S. involvement in Libya.

Yeah, Rand's a disappointment. Still, I think he is slightly better than the rest of his colleagues in the TP Caucus. He was raised right, but his dad can't help it if he's a spineless wimp who likes to follow the crowd.



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Thursday, December 2, 2021 12:11 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Thursday, December 2, 2021 3:18 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Government shutdown showdown: House expected to vote on bill to keep government open but GOP senators not backing down

https://news.yahoo.com/government-shutdown-showdown-house-expected-161
838855.html

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 8:06 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Judge blocks Biden vaccine mandate for federal contractors in all states
https://www.wkrn.com/community/health/coronavirus/judge-blocks-biden-v
accine-mandate-for-federal-contractors-in-all-states
/

Fourth Stimulus Check: Is Another Relief Payment Coming?
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/12/06/4th-stimulus-check-update-2021-
relief-payment
/

Many Omicron patients “not as seriously ill” as in previous Covid waves say doctors
https://theglobalherald.com/news/many-omicron-patients-not-as-seriousl
y-ill-as-in-previous-covid-waves-say-doctors-bbc-news
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GOP blasts Mitch McConnell over debt ceiling deal with Chuck Schumer that allows Democrats to bypass the filibuster
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10288609/GOP-blasts-Mitch-McC
onnell-debt-ceiling-deal-Chuck-Schumer.html

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