Hold on to your butts.... by SignyM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hold on to your butts....

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 04:29
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VIEWED: 1465
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Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:44 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Does this chart look as bad to you as it does to me?

http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1

no way to copy either the image or image location, but it shows the radiation in the No 1 Fukushima drywell jumping from 30 sv/hr to 100 sv/ hr in one day (two days ago) and no further readings after that.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 1:49 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Yeah, that looks pretty bad...

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Monday, April 11, 2011 2:05 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yeah, that looks pretty bad...

Agreed. Damn.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 2:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

They had a strong aftershock early on the 7th with a tsunami warning, and the workers at Fukushima were evacuated and stuff shut down for a while. Might be the cause of a temporary spike. I wouldn't be surprised to see one today too, after the latest aftershock.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, April 11, 2011 8:21 AM

HARDWARE

All other stats linked on that page continue for unit 1. More than likely this is a failure of the sensor that makes the recording. In fact, looking at the chart, the remaining values are stable or declining.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, April 11, 2011 8:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There is supposed to be a set of high-resolution photographs released today, taken by drone a few days ago. What with the latest aftershock, I suppose a delay is expected.

There are some images and quotes I'm having a hard time digging up again, so the best I can do is refer to them and hope to add links later.

TEPCO has added a consultant to its roster, he was a TEPCO manager who left after a series of misreportings and coverups several years ago. Just last week, he explained why they would not take the Chernobyl route, but what he said as part of the explanation was more interesting: "We just want the fuel to stop melting." So it's STILL melting, eh? Maybe just an awkward mistranslation, or maybe a rare moment of unintended truth.

The Cryptome images are interesting. In the right rear corner of the reactor buildings (the ones with the tops blown off) as you are facing the site from the ocean, you can see (if you look) a yellowish round object. I believe that is the top of the reactor vessel.

In the image where you can see the green fuel-loading crane, underneath and to the left a bit is a kind of mesh-work of square metal brackets. Those are the fuel brackets which are supposed to be holding the "spent" fuel. They are exposed and empty.

I also noticed there is empty square hole on the rear left corner of both no 3 and No 4 reactor buildings (viewing from the ocean)... any idea what that is?

It's pretty difficult to understand exactly what you are looking at without having a site plan for comparison. So if anyone has a good source of info, please post.

In the regular IAEA updates, the reactor temperatures which they report are from the outside of the reactor vessel, top temperatures taken at the water inlet lines (feedline in units 1 and fire suppression lines in units 2 and 3 IIRC) and the bottom of the reactor vessel wall, but they NEVER report the temperature at the bottom of reactor No 2. Sometimes lack of reporting is as indicative as reporting. I suspect the sensor is ablated away.

Also, suspiciously, the drywell pressure of Unit 2 is always atmospheric, when it SHOULD be at slight pressure. Both the containment and reactor vessel are breached.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 9:06 AM

BYTEMITE

Without seeing whether there have been spikes in the past, it's difficult to tell what this is, but my understanding it the last few times we've seen spikes they've been real. It's possible you may see a spike in one form of contamination or radiation and not another, depending on what is causing the spike.

A quick linear regression with the spike data suggests an increasing trend, without is very slightly decreasing. In both cases R^2 is a poor fit. Fitting the line to power functions and exponential functions has a better, but still poor correlation. The data appears generally to be fluctuating.

Guess we'll know more tomorrow.

I would guess that Sig's analysis of the other data and the photographs is accurate, and the material has entirely melted down and through the containment vessel.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 9:10 AM

HARDWARE

#2 should be at or slightly above atmospheric as the primary coolant on that was the one leaking highly radioactive water into the service tunnels. They say they have plugged it with concrete, but even so, building up pressure in the vessel is asking for uncured concrete to blow out.

Reactor temps should be highest at the top of the reactor, due to simple convection. Internal sensors are hardened as best they can, but we are still talking about something exposed to very high temperatures. Failure is pretty common. On the other hand, sensors are supposed to be multiply redundant.

They have already publicly stated that the whole site has to be decommissioned. Once the reactors are cooled, a couple of months total cooling time, they can begin to separate the rods and relocate them to a more functional facility. I doubt we'll be talking about a sarcophagus. Land value in Japan is too high. Unless it is heavily contaminated they'll scrape and replace.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, April 11, 2011 9:17 AM

BYTEMITE

I'm not sure putting number two in concrete would prevent the sensors from reading temperatures in number two. It's not that they're reading higher temperatures up top from what I understand, but rather they're getting no readings from the bottom.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 9:38 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm not sure putting number two in concrete would prevent the sensors from reading temperatures in number two. It's not that they're reading higher temperatures up top from what I understand, but rather they're getting no readings from the bottom.

Temperature from the bottom. I don't have an explanation for that. Unless the sensor failed or was destroyed. Can't be checked until they cool the reactor.

But the lack of pressure in the reactor pressure vessel should be expected. There was a hole in it and they can't put it back under pressure for fear of blowing out the patch. The frightening thing about that is that the water should boil without pressure.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, April 11, 2011 9:40 AM

BYTEMITE

Fair enough.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 3:23 PM

KANEMAN

Can't see it from my house.......

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Monday, April 11, 2011 4:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s nuclear crisis may be raised to the highest level of severity, matching Chernobyl’s rating, as increasing radiation prompts the government to widen the evacuation zone and aftershocks rocked the country.

Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency lifted the rating level to 7, and will announce the decision at a news conference today, national broadcaster NHK reported on its website. The accident at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi station is currently rated 5 on the global scale, the same as the 1979 partial reactor meltdown at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvani

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, April 11, 2011 5:26 PM

HARDWARE

Yeah, saw this briefly on Anderson Cooper while doing a quick surf before bed. They weren't venting steam as was reported. Looks like they blew the lid off at least one containment vessel.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Tuesday, April 12, 2011 4:29 AM

HARDWARE

BBC has a good write up of the actual events. Looks like the plutonium contamination may have been from the #4 spent fuel pool, instead of from reactors 1-3. Although they do say that water levels in the reactors are up to halfway (!!!) in the reactor vessels. Nothing is known about the state inside the containment vessels.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13017282

Their graphic is factually accurate, which makes me wonder about contamination in the turbine hall as well.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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