President Releases Birth Certificate by AnthonyT

I know it is in the constitution, but really what is the big deal about not being born in america? really? I've asked it before, but don't get it.

Our PM was born in Wales. Nobody thinks she is a part of a welsh plot to sieze the country. Sounds like an outdated law to me.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:31 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Quote:
WHY should he show his college records, for gawd's sake? WHAT President has ever been asked to? What right does anyone have to ask him to? Is it a requirement to be President that you have X grades? Or is this just another way of saying "A Black man couldn't possibly be good enough to be President"? Hmmmm?

Does it have to be a 'black' thing? While I agree that this is a foolish waste of time and energy, people can hate him for reasons NOT related to his race. And even if we look at his race, he's half white too, right? Why can't we claim him?

Sigh. No, it doesn’t have to be a “black thing”. But it seems to strain coincidence that despite seven prior presidents having similar “natural born citizen” issues, it’s the first black one who has to deal with it as a major matter.

As for his being half-white, so is my daughter, but in our society, her café-au-lait skin defines her cultural default mode as “black”. It’s not a right thing, but it’s a real thing.

One thing I have noticed – a lot of the people who are claiming Obama had to be born in Muslimistan Kenyafricania are the same who a few years back were in favor of a constitutional amendment so that Arnold Schwartzenegger could run for president. What a difference a melanin deficiency makes . . .

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

" Bush is President. Get over it."

Isn't that what you told folks after the 2000 election?

I'm guessing it was.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:48 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Sigh. No, it doesn’t have to be a “black thing”. But it seems to strain coincidence that despite seven prior presidents having similar “natural born citizen” issues, it’s the first black one who has to deal with it as a major matter.

I get what you're saying, and, sure enough, there are bound to be some racists out there. Still, Barrack Obama has done more than just be 'black' or 'Halfrican.' I think the racism accusations are overused, to the point that that racist accusation is probably prompting or promoting racism.

Though, honestly I'm not sure why I'm defending them. I'm no birther or conspiracy nut, and like Magons, don't really see 'born in America' as being all that important. I feel that being a US citizen is certainly an important requirement, but where they were born doesn't really concern me.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:56 PM

the stupidist thing about all this is that in a short while you can all vote him out if you so choose, so why all this is worth bleating on and on and on and on about.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:58 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
the stupidist thing about all this is that in a short while you can all vote him out if you so choose, so why all this is worth bleating on and on and on and on about.

We don't always agree, but we certainly are now. My guess is it's an attempt to sabotage his chances for reelection.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:03 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Yup. I heard about that one, too...

"If they prove the birth certificate, next: college records. After that: ___"

Talk about your conspiracies!! (And there; knowing what was in it, I just saved myself ANOTHER 5-10 minutes reading your crap. Bring on the ice cream...)

WHY should he show his college records, for gawd's sake? WHAT President has ever been asked to? What right does anyone have to ask him to? Is it a requirement to be President that you have X grades? Or is this just another way of saying "A Black man couldn't possibly be good enough to be President"? Hmmmm?

Given we already know you're a flaming racist, you needn't bother answering that. Go play with your tin hat.

Obama is President. Get over it.

Listen to Trump, and the way he says it. First, prove you're a citizen; prove you're a "real" American. Next, prove you didn't get into college through some affirmative-action trick. When you're not playing basketball, that is.

Never really considered Trump to be such an out-and-out racist, until I heard this latest round of pure horseshit.

Meanwhile, Trump has yet to show us his financials and tax records. And think about this, all you dolts who say he'd run the country like one of his businesses: HOW the fuck did Trump actually manage to go bankrupt WITH A CASINO? In the most rigged of rigged games, he found a way to LOSE!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

You got it, Magons. It doesn't "have" to be about race, but it is. Never has a President been SO questioned...two years into his presidency...that he might not be legitimately President. That pretty much says it all.

And if he were white, what difference would it make what his grades were in college??? When's THAT ever been a legitimate question? Hell, we've had Presidents who were LOUSEY students...but they were white, so no demands to see their transcripts. I know what some will say, "playing the race card", but sometimes things just are what they obviously are. Sad to say.

It isn't about his GRADES, Niki - it's about whether or not he should have even been in Columbia or Harvard in the first place. Obviously, the fact that he graduated Magna Cum Laude has nothing to do with his abilities, and he was probably only given that honorific because he was black. That is what Trump is driving at: the idea that Obama should never have been allowed into college in the first place, unless it was on a basketball scholarship, because that's all he thinks "those people" are capable of.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:53 PM

Bah, I still say he's feeding ammo to the circular firing squad on purpose, and I suspect its Bidens idea, cause it won't be too long before they start savaging EACH OTHER, over which piece to scream the loudest about, rendering the entire conservative spectrum utterly incapable of putting up the kind of unified front they'd need to in order to keep Bama from being re-elected...

Which is a damn shame, cause I personally think he's a fuckin wuss and we need someone who can play hardball against the neofeudalist horde, not kowtow to the motherfuckers.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:00 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I like the rule about being born in America, I have no problem with it at all, If you weren't born here and you want to be in government there are plenty of positions that you can hold, up to secretary of state I think. I think the reason that rule is used is because that way it limits the chances of someone's loyalties being torn. Lets say you grew up in East Conjumaea and moved here when you were a teenager and then became president. Then some thing happened and we went to war with East Conjumaea, they don't want the president questioning whether s/he would side with the US or the place where they grew up.

I agree that there is no reason to check Obama's college records, I don't really care what his grades were, and besides all that does is make the person who insists on seeing them look stupid and weird and possibly racist.

As an aside, I've always thought its silly to value one herritage over another in someone who is of mixed blood just because their physical traits take after one parent or the other, let the person decide how _they want to be identified. But society won't do that, its too human, they can't get it down.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I like the rule about being born in America, I have no problem with it at all, If you weren't born here and you want to be in government there are plenty of positions that you can hold, up to secretary of state I think. I think the reason that rule is used is because that way it limits the chances of someone's loyalties being torn. Lets say you grew up in East Conjumaea and moved here when you were a teenager and then became president. Then some thing happened and we went to war with East Conjumaea, they don't want the president questioning whether s/he would side with the US or the place where they grew up.

But you swear allegience to your new country when you take out citizenship, don't you? What is to stop torn alliances if your father or mother was born in East Conjumaea and most of your relatives live there, yet you were born in the US? Surely someone who has taken out citizenship is more likely to be loyal to their new country, because they have to actually make the decision to a) move there b) decide they like it so much they want to be a citizen.

I think it is an outdated limitation, designed to stop those damned English pigdogs regaining control.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:14 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
her husband needing copious amounts of documentation and two witnesses (non-family) of his birth to get something (a passport I think, or maybe for some government something, he's in the military) because he did not have a birth certificate but a 'certificate of live birth.'

I got a passport with a 'certification of vital record.' So. No, it wasn't a passport.
I've actually made the point more than once that when I got my passport, I had to send in my birth certificate (or certification of vital record) with my application so that it could be handled and cross-checked. I didn't get it back for weeks, it was very stressful. The President has a passport, that means his documentation has been checked in such a manner, quite outside of whatever process is involved with ratifying a candidate.
...My birth certificate in fact nowhere says 'birth certificate.' Closest it comes is 'Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment Certified Abstract of Birth.' Seriously, that's what it says. All kinds of things going on with with wording on this document. Fancy that. Guess I'm not a natural born citizen.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:18 PM

You'll have a hell of time when you are President

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:22 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I know, right?
If I were eligible to run, I think I totally would, just so I could walk around with my birth certificate and say, "Yeah, it doesn't say birth certificate, but it's what I've always taken to the DMV..."

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Friday, April 29, 2011 1:26 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

People take this way too seriously - the cnn effect: "if it's everywhere I look then it must be important, everyone must care about it."
Basically Obama blinked. The anti Obama groups used simple school yard tactics of antagonizing him to get a reaction. If you are always reacting to your enemy then you are playing the game on their terms and you'll always be one step behind.
He comes out and says "we haven't got time for this, we have more pressing things to work on..." then those more pressing things should have been in the news first. Why was there no dialogue about these great things he's working on up until now? Failure from him and his people. Instead the right keeps up the pressure and keeps him shuffling and juking.
I'd bet the core of the Birther group doesn't even believe the allegations and aren't racists - they are PROFESSIONAL POLITICIANS. This is Political akido. It's all about creating doubt and casting aspersions on the candidate for 2012, and it's working well enough (they think) that they keep after it.
That's also why no document at ANY time would have shut them up. "Just keep making people wonder about his authenticity." The mass effect is there - some even slightly sane people wonder. Now Trump - who may actually run in 2012 - is picking up the cause and using it to chip away at the reputation of his opponent - makes perfect sense. It doesn't have to be real to work.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, April 29, 2011 12:14 PM

STORYMARK

And thus begins the age of the "After Birthers."

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, April 29, 2011 1:14 PM

Newt Gingrich became Speaker of the House over 15 years ago, in line for the Presidency of the United States, and to this day, nobody has seen his birth certificate.

What's he hiding?

Donald Trump promised to release his tax records and financial info as soon as Obama showed his birth certificate, and now refuses to do so.

What's he hiding?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, April 29, 2011 4:23 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

For Gods sakes, dont mention Obama's fake Social Security # from Connect T cutt!

MSNBC.....those nice folks who paid zero tax on $15-Billion profit and got a $3.5-Billion welfare check on top of it. And they nuked Fukushima, and bomb Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Libya every day. And their CEO just got hired by Obama. And their mandatory lightbulbs are filled with deadly mercury.

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Friday, April 29, 2011 4:29 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am shocked, first of all, that a man who hosts a show called The Final Word wouldn't let someone else have the final word.

Secondly, I find it bizarre that he objected to his guest swerving away from a specifically designed topic of his choosing.

I hate it when interviewers try to control their interviews, and deny their guests a platform for their own agendas.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, April 29, 2011 5:34 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Here's what his REAL birth certificate says:

Porno kingpin took nudie photos of Obama's momma

Examine the pictures here, upper left: Barack Obama Sr. (president obama’s alleged father). Upper right: George Obama Presidents half brother.

Lower left: Frank Marshall Davis President Obama’s child hood mentor self admitted communist who gave obama whiskey. Lower right: President Obama.

Now I ask you who looks like President Obama’s Father?

This could be the reason why President Obama is hiding is Birth Certificate.

I don’t know about you my father looks just like me. We are being lied to as this Country is being hijacked.

www.wheresobamasbirthcertificate.com

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Friday, April 29, 2011 5:37 PM

Quote:
Posted by PN:

I don’t know about you my father looks just like me.

Well yeah, but so do your mother, your sister, your aunt, your kids, your brother, your mother's sister, your father's mother... Let's face it, PN, your family tree doesn't branch!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, April 29, 2011 5:43 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

And, also, that Barack Obama Sr. dude looks quite a bit like the President. I'm sure that some of his features come from his mother, but you can still see the resemblance. The chin, nose shape, and eye shape to name a few.

...Gorramn, I thought these people were reaching before. This just goes above and beyond.

Facts are stubborn things.

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Friday, April 29, 2011 7:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Well yeah, but so do your mother, your sister, your aunt, your kids, your brother, your mother's sister, your father's mother... Let's face it, PN, your family tree doesn't branch!

LOL

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Friday, April 29, 2011 7:31 PM

he looks like his gramps

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1834628_1754183,00.html

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Friday, April 29, 2011 7:31 PM

why all these double posts?

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:55 AM

HARDWARE

The important point is that 0bama is on his back foot. His camp is reacting. Dancing to Trump's tune. This is an inherently weak position. Anyone who disagrees with this is just proving that they've drunk the coolaid.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:36 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The important point is that 0bama is on his back foot. His camp is reacting. Dancing to Trump's tune. This is an inherently weak position. Anyone who disagrees with this is just proving that they've drunk the coolaid.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

Hello,

"Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" is always an interesting position for debate.

I have not seen any credible threat to Obama's reelection. I do not believe that Trump is a credible threat. None of this circus has palpably weakened the president's position.

The only thing that can keep this president from winning the next election is this president. He has to make some earth-shattering mistake, or he's a shoe-in. The GOP are powerless to stop him, having no viable alternatives. The kool-aid is what the GOP is pouring, and there just isn't enough of it to poison Obama's reelection campaign.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The important point is that 0bama is on his back foot. His camp is reacting. Dancing to Trump's tune. This is an inherently weak position. Anyone who disagrees with this is just proving that they've drunk the coolaid.

You sound an awful lot like Rappy: "This is all there is to it; end of discussion."

I've got a news flash for you: internet discussions don't generally end just because you think they should. Barging in and declaring victory doesn't really make it so. Sorry to put your knickers in a twist.

Obama made a fool of Trump and the majority of the GOP and teabaggers, who had whipped themselves into a tizzy with their idiocy about his birthplace. He put them all on the defensive by releasing the document, and called them out for the carnival barkers they are. Now they're scrambling for some new "issue" to whine about.

And you can't disagree, or you've just proven that you drank the Birther Kool-Aid! ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:30 AM

BYTEMITE

Not to mention it's completely contradictory. First it's Obama is Kenyan because his father was Kenyan, then it's the Kenyan guy wasn't really his father, it was some American born porn guy.

Obama, in my opinion, hasn't been a good president. He's done a number of things I really disagree with, either continuing infringements of civil rights (or creating new ones), weak reaction to environmental pollution and oil spills, creating more pointless war, gimees to the insurance companies, and so on. But considering the downward spiral I see our nation in, and the succession of monstrous presidents we've seen, that more goes to show me that Obama really IS president than he isn't. It also goes to show that presidents in general are counterproductive, if not completely awful.

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:05 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Phoenix, you wouldn’t have any problem: you’re not black. That is what it’s about, as far as I’m concerned...both because of the coincidence thing, and because it’s one of the ways to de-legitimize him, which is what is usually done where racism is concerned.

Yes, Mike, I know it’s about affirmative action—-which he DID get, and which he’s SAID he got, so making an issue out of it is disgusting. It's just another ploy to make him "not one of us" and to de-legitimize him because he got "a leg up" over others. However he got there, his record at university is clear; no affirmative action in the world is gonna get him editor of the law review! Idiots, all of them.

I don’t think Trump is a racist, however; I think he’s PLAYING to the racism in people who want to de-legitimize Obama. This whole thing, I think, is an attempt to get attention and further his own agenda, which is attention and money. Anyone who actually takes him SERIOUSLY is off their nut; this is a man who said we should solve the oil problem by going in and TAKING all their oil. That alone shows how insane supporting him would be! In every respect, Trump is a joke as a presidential candidate, nothing more.

Pizmo, you got it. As I said, I don’t think Trump is a racist either, I think just what you said. Of course the “core” of the birther group isn’t racist...or at least certainly doesn’t have to be. They’re playing on the racism of others to further their agenda. Tho’ I’m pretty sure Orly IS a racist, given her actions before and since. But she just started it, she doesn’t really count, as she couldn’t have made it this big a deal by herself.

There he goes again:

Quote:
I hate it when interviewers try to control their interviews, and deny their guests a platform for their own agendas.

Anthony, you are a gem; to you goes the award for the first giggle of the day, and you are a TREASURE here. The wonderfully civil way you make your points, and the wonderfully civil and funny way you snark are precious beyond words! Please never stop.

Although the prize would have gone to Mike if I’d read his first. Great snark. I, for one, bear absolutely NO resemblance to my father. The only things I got from him are my olive skin (mom was pasty French) and his singing voice (as in: NOT! Mom sang in the choir, neither dad nor could carry a tune in a basket). Who one looks like haven’t a goddamned thing to do with it. But then I’m responding to Mike, as usual I haven’t bothered to read PN’s asinine conjecture.

I happen to agree that producing the birth certificate at ALL, much less in the middle of this Trump shit, was a truly stupid move. He should have gone on ignoring it—the speech that we have more important things to deal with was real; bowing to the pressure to show his birth certificate played into Trump’s hands without stopping a damned thing by the birthers. Trump is going around Trump-eting how proud he is of himself, how he accomplished something “nobody else could” and on and on, ad nauseum. I hate that he was given the excuse to do so, he turns my stomach. The man is a joke.

As to Obama getting a second term, I’d add to the theory that he’ll win unless he does something amazingly stupid that he could also lose if the GOP could somehow pull a “rabbit out of the hat”, as in a VIABLE candidate to oppose him. There isn’t one so far, and I’d think by now if they had one, they’d have pushed him forward. What they’ve put out now would, I believe, make every sensible voter either vote for Obama or just not vote.

BUT, oh, how I WISH Trump would win the nomination. Or Bachman. Or Palin. Any one of them would make Obama’s re-election much less expensive and take much less effort. Tho’ I shouldn’t say that, given how true the truism is that Dems pull defeat out of the mouth of victory... As it stands right now, I think Obama would win virtually hands down. We’ll see what happens in the next 6-9 months.

The necessity of being American, I’m on the fence. I kinda like it, for some of the reasons given, while at the same time I don’t think it’s truly necessary anymore. The one thing I DO like about it is that it keeps the ex-Govenator from running, thank gawd. I couldn’t believe California was so stupid as to elect him; given I couldn’t believe California was so stupid as to elect Reagan and look where HE got, I don’t want Ahnold given the chance.

Is it that you have to have been BORN in America? I thought it was just that you had to be an American, which means either mom or dad had to be American, and I don't belive there's any question about his mother. Or is it both? Because if it was just having to be born in America, as it stands now the child of illegal immigrants would be viable, given children born here automtically get citizenship...?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 11:12 AM

Heh

Johann Hari: Donald Trump's lunacy reveals core truth about the Republicans

Quote:
Since the election of Barack Obama, the Republican Party has proved that one of its central intellectual arguments was right all along. It has long claimed that evolution is a myth believed in only by whiny liberals – and it turns out it was on to something. Every six months, the party venerates a new hero, and each time it is somebody further back on the evolutionary scale.

And this folks, is why I cannot support Ron Paul, so long as he affiliates with such cretins, because of the phenomenae explained here.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/71/molyneux/molyneux3.html

Just that simple.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 11:34 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Is it that you have to have been BORN in America?

To be a natural born citizen, yes, you must be born on American soil.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 12:58 PM

Cause someone just HAS to, and it might as well be me.

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 1:33 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Heh

Johann Hari: Donald Trump's lunacy reveals core truth about the Republicans
Quote:
Since the election of Barack Obama, the Republican Party has proved that one of its central intellectual arguments was right all along. It has long claimed that evolution is a myth believed in only by whiny liberals – and it turns out it was on to something. Every six months, the party venerates a new hero, and each time it is somebody further back on the evolutionary scale.

And this folks, is why I cannot support Ron Paul, so long as he affiliates with such cretins, because of the phenomenae explained here.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/71/molyneux/molyneux3.html

Just that simple.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Hello,

Guilty by association is not one of the tenets of my philosophy.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 3:17 PM

Quote:
Is it that you have to have been BORN in America? I thought it was just that you had to be an American, which means either mom or dad had to be American, and I don't belive there's any question about his mother. Or is it both? Because if it was just having to be born in America, as it stands now the child of illegal immigrants would be viable, given children born here automtically get citizenship...?

Generally speaking, yes. If you are BORN on American soil, you are a citizen, with certain exceptions: children of foreign diplomats, when those children are born in U.S. hospitals, for example, aren't granted automatic U.S. citizenship; children of U.S. diplomats and service personnel who are born overseas, however, ARE considered U.S. citizens, thanks to a law passed in 1937.

Amazingly enough, that law was passed ONE YEAR after John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, to American parents. There's been some speculation as to whether or not he was actually eligible to be President, but my personal feeling was, if he won, he was the President as soon as he swore the oath of office.

I don't feel President Bush *legitimately* won the Presidency, but the SCOTUS "sElected" him, so he was indeed the President of the U.S. at that point. I might not have liked it, and might have disagreed with the Supremes, but that's the way the system is set up, and I can't claim to believe in the Constitution unless I'm willing to accept that SCOTUS rulings are indeed final.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 3:53 PM

Nor mine Anthony, but every time folks have handed Ron Paul political "cred" - it always winds up in the hands of a party that I consider to be, in fact, a mental illness, and his refusal to break ranks with them, despite this, means I can not support him.

It's like a joint bank account with fifty downright criminal scumbags and one decent guy, plus a ton of just plain wackjobs - would YOU keep putting money in it, once you realized that ?

Case in point, Erwin Rommel was, by all accounts, a fairly decent guy.
Does that in any way lessen the doings of the political party he was affiliated with ?
Did not many of his actions advance their agenda, whether he agreed with it or not ?

Who you associate with personally is your own business, but once you don the colors - you have publicly declared an affiliation and support for what those colors represent.

This is also why I no longer allow the american flag to be raised or flown on my property, why I mothballed my old Mk65 field jacket and replaced it with a slate colored knockoff - because if I do not support something, I Do Not Support It. - materially or otherwise.

Those were not easy decisions to make, none of em, but you can NOT have it both ways - you can support an agenda piecemeal, if you believe it has good in it, but once you make public and official declaration to that agenda, you *DO* support it, simply by having done so whether that's how you meant it or not.

Don the jackboot, earn my ire, it's not simpler than that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:09 PM

Quite so, Frem.

If Ron Paul wants to run as an Independent, a Libertarian, a Green Party candidate, he'll likely find a supporter in me, or at least an interested ear.

But when he runs as a Republican, he becomes the party of Bush and Reagan.

And there are plenty enough on "the other side" who will say the same of Obama, and I can't deny those claims. He certainly is the party, since he's the head of it. There's every chance I won't be able to vote for him in 2012. Too bad there's nobody running against him as a Democrat!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:08 PM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The important point is that 0bama is on his back foot. His camp is reacting. Dancing to Trump's tune. This is an inherently weak position. Anyone who disagrees with this is just proving that they've drunk the coolaid.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

Hello,

"Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" is always an interesting position for debate.

I have not seen any credible threat to Obama's reelection. I do not believe that Trump is a credible threat. None of this circus has palpably weakened the president's position.

The only thing that can keep this president from winning the next election is this president. He has to make some earth-shattering mistake, or he's a shoe-in. The GOP are powerless to stop him, having no viable alternatives. The kool-aid is what the GOP is pouring, and there just isn't enough of it to poison Obama's reelection campaign.

--Anthony

Whoah, whoah, whoah. I never said there was a credible threat. In fact I think that Trump is the clown shoes as a candidate. But the fact that 0bama's camp has decided to react, and reaction is always a weaker path than action, to Trump's rehash of an old controversy is indication that his camp feels threatened by this.

There's a long, long road to the election. Plenty of time for new developments.

But if you think this reaction shows strength, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:08 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

If Ron Paul wants to run as an Independent, a Libertarian, a Green Party candidate, he'll likely find a supporter in me, or at least an interested ear.

But when he runs as a Republican, he becomes the party of Bush and Reagan.

And there are plenty enough on "the other side" who will say the same of Obama, and I can't deny those claims. He certainly is the party, since he's the head of it. There's every chance I won't be able to vote for him in 2012. Too bad there's nobody running against him as a Democrat!

President Ron Paul and VP Dennis Kucinich 2012... Fuck BOTH parties!

No more wars, no more "Fed" Reserve Bank, no more IRS...

Or 4 more years of:

“I’m only going to be president a little bit longer.”
-Hussein Obama Soetoro, 29 April 2011
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/25/2193397/obama-speaks-to-miami-da
de-colleges.html

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:19 PM

Quote:
But if you think this reaction shows strength, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

See my post above. Obama put virtually all the tea partiers and a good 61% of the GOP on the defensive by showing one single document. It would have been defensive of him to do it when only PN here and about three others in the world were pewling about it, but when you can make the vast majority of your enemies look like dolts with one simple action, it's not defensive at that point; it's a GIFT!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:22 PM

Quote:
President Ron Paul and VP Dennis Kucinich 2012... Fuck BOTH parties!

Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, and you might get me interested.

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 5:23 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The important point is that 0bama is on his back foot. His camp is reacting. Dancing to Trump's tune. This is an inherently weak position. Anyone who disagrees with this is just proving that they've drunk the coolaid.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

Hello,

"Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" is always an interesting position for debate.

I have not seen any credible threat to Obama's reelection. I do not believe that Trump is a credible threat. None of this circus has palpably weakened the president's position.

The only thing that can keep this president from winning the next election is this president. He has to make some earth-shattering mistake, or he's a shoe-in. The GOP are powerless to stop him, having no viable alternatives. The kool-aid is what the GOP is pouring, and there just isn't enough of it to poison Obama's reelection campaign.

--Anthony

Whoah, whoah, whoah. I never said there was a credible threat. In fact I think that Trump is the clown shoes as a candidate. But the fact that 0bama's camp has decided to react, and reaction is always a weaker path than action, to Trump's rehash of an old controversy is indication that his camp feels threatened by this.

There's a long, long road to the election. Plenty of time for new developments.

But if you think this reaction shows strength, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

Hello,

It's just a fencing match. There will be plenty of reaction on both sides of the 'fence.' In fact, it took about five minutes for the opposition to react to the reaction.

They still haven't regained their footing, no matter whether they want to call it a win.

Right now, I consider the birther sponsors to be in a weaker position.

Parry, thrust.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:10 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Since the election of Barack Obama, the Republican Party has proved that one of its central intellectual arguments was right all along. It has long claimed that evolution is a myth believed in only by whiny liberals – and it turns out it was on to something. Every six months, the party venerates a new hero, and each time it is somebody further back on the evolutionary scale.

Priceless. I don’t agree with it, but it’s a marvelous snark.

I definitely don’t agree with

Quote:
Obama put virtually all the tea partiers and a good 61% of the GOP on the defensive by showing one single document

I think Hardware’s right, and it’s how I feel:

Quote:
the fact that 0bama's camp has decided to react, and reaction is always a weaker path than action, to Trump's rehash of an old controversy is indication that his camp feels threatened by this.

His timing sucked, for one thing, and it brought the silliness back into focus---not that Trump hadn’t managed that quite well by himself. It might well have been the ONLY way to shut Trump up on that issue, but he went right on to the next issue on his agenda...Obama’s GRADES, for gawd’s sake??

I was angry and embarrassed for him when he released the birth certificate. Anyone with half a brain knows it won’t stop the birthers, but yes, I guess he had to do it, given the astonishing percentage of Republicans who bought into the idiocy. On the other hand, they won’t vote for him anyway, so why give in to pressure from conspiracy theorists, which only elevates Trump and makes the shit he and the birthers spout more like a valid issue? To release it right NOW, with Trump all over the air waves pushing it, IS a defensive action, in my book.

Thanx for clarifying the citizenship thing. What about children born of two Americans in another country? I always thought any child born of one American parent, wherever was automatically a citizen if they wanted to be, or they could take citizenship of the other parent. If WHERE one is born is the determining factor, I can see it being very complicated...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:16 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
What about children born of two Americans in another country? I always thought any child born of one American parent, wherever was automatically a citizen if they wanted to be, or they could take citizenship of the other parent.

A child born of two Americans is an American citizen. A child with one American parent can be an American citizen. However, if I understand correctly, they are not considered to be natural born citizens and cannot be elected President, just as an immigrant who becomes a full citizen is not eligible to become President.
This was, I think, the source of the ridiculous bruhaha in the first place. Since there were people looking for reasons Obama couldn't be President, they started by calling into question whether Hawaii was a state at the time of his birth. It was. From there it spiralled into more and more ludicrous things, such as that he wasn't born in Hawaii, wasn't eligible because both his parents weren't Americans (which is out-and-out false; the child of two immigrants who is born on American soil is a natural born citizen and eligible to run for the office) wasn't eligible because he held a dual citizenship for a time (also false, as the United States does not deny citizenship to someone who is a citizen of another country; Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship, but their laws have no bearing on the United States) and on and on until it became the crowning moments of stupid we've been seeing.
McCain was also called, less violently, into question with regards to his eligibility. However, since he was born on a base that was considered to be American soil, he is a natural born citizen. Everyone was satisfied with that and there were no demands to see his birth certificate or a photo proving he wasn't born outside that base or anything ridiculous like that. Hm. Can't imagine why....

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:24 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahhh, thanx for clarifying that. Makes sense. Also,I missed a couple of things:

Rocket, I LOVE “Muslimistan Kenyafricania”. Right on! And yes, I remember the talk about making it legal for our Govenator---terrified me at the time that it might actually HAPPEN! I mean, we gave the country Reagan and look how THAT turned out...to turn Ahnold loose on the country...augh! You have my sympathy on what your daughter has to deal with, it makes smoke come out of my head. The fact that anyone who APPEARS to have a dark skin, whatever their parentage, is considered “Black” is sickening, and just shows that racism IS alive and well in America.

As far as the Bush thing, Mike covered it for me. I believe it was a sham, but once done, I accepted it. I didn’t go on like some, saying he wasn’t legitimate, and neither I nor many others went on complaining about it and claiming there was a conspiracy, etc., etc., like the birthers have done. We DID get over it, whatever our personal feelings, and the vast majority of us didn't run around complaining he wasn't legally Prez so everything he did should be undone (tho' how I wish that were possible)! The comparison fails.

I found myself thinking about this birther thing and Trump after watching Obama at the Correspondents’ Dinner. I wonder if releasing it when they did wasn’t tied into this? The timing SEEMED bad, to me, plus the “necessity” of releasing it at all, but hearing what hay he made of it in his speech, I can’t help wondering if releasing it at the height of Trump being in the spotlight wasn’t a setup for his remarks needling Trump at the dinner. I guess I’d LIKE to believe that, since the chronology is so perfect, rather than believe they were merely giving in to pressure and worried about how many weren’t sure he was an American. If they timed it for that reason, then I think it was great. It sure was great fodder for him roasting Trump!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:41 AM

And did you SEE Trump at the Correspondents' Dinner? He looked quite uncomfortable, and very unamused. Hell, even the rest of his party at his table would start to laugh, and then catch themselves when they saw him glowering. Guess The Donald isn't used to being the center of attention in a bad way, or the butt of the joke.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 8:30 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Of course; it's obvious he has no sense of humor, and given how high he's been on his latest "important accomplishment", it couldn't feel good to have everyone laughing at it. I LOVED the bit about "we all know your qualifications", which brought a lot of titters, and the bit about "that's something that would keep me awake at night" brought major guffaws. You really expect The Donald to be able to handle being laughed at? If he could, he wouldn't wear that absurd hair and expect people to take him seriously. Simply does not compute. He takes HIMSELF seriously, for heaven's sake, having his "accomplishment" belittled had to be driving him insane! And gave the rest of us a real good laugh!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 10:10 PM