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Bush Wasn't Worried About Bin Laden; McCain Wouldn't Go After Him; Obama Gets the Job Done!

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:20
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Monday, May 2, 2011 5:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




Dubya said he didn't really spend much time worrying about Bin Laden. Candidate McCain said he wouldn't go after Bin Laden, even if he knew where he was. These are the guys who wanted you to believe they were "tough on terror".

This is the guy who ordered the hit on Bin Laden:



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill


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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:21 AM

DREAMTROVE


Actually, Clinton ordered the hit in 1998. Bush just gave up looking. While he wasn't looking, Osama died of natural causes. As Frem said, every major news source in the world reported it, including all of ours.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:41 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Quote:

Report: Bin Laden Already Dead

December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html



There was no dialysis machine at the "Bin Laden Compound" this week.

No photos, no videos, no body, no evidence...

http://archives2011.gcnlive.com/Archives2011/may11/PowerHour/0502111.m
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http://archives2011.gcnlive.com/Archives2011/may11/AlexJones/0502111.m
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http://archives2011.gcnlive.com/Archives2011/may11/AlexJones/0502112.m
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http://archives2011.gcnlive.com/Archives2011/may11/AlexJones/0502113.m
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The fake death image is based on a genuine photograph of Bin Laden taken in 1998 and used by the Reuters news agency
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake
?CMP=twt_fd

http://dragonaters.blogspot.com/2011/05/obama-bin-laden-is-dead.html

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Actually", DT, that's your (and others') BELIEF. You can't prove it any more than they can "prove" they got him now, insofar as not everybody will ever believe "proof" of either one. It's just like the birth certificate; if they brought the body home and showed it, had all of his wives identify it as him, did any sort of "test" that absolutely proved it was him, there'd still be thousands of people who'd never believe it.

Bush's remark about not being worried about him seems to me the natural outgrowth of their inability to find him, as in "let's not think about that"...if he'd died or had been killed, I can't imagine Bush NOT yelling it from the tallest tower! As to McCain, I don't know what he was thinking, whether he didn't want to consider the idea of invading Pakistan or something else, but for me, I don't believe it had to do with WHOEVER was President; I think there's been a task force working on it all along and it took them this long to figure it out. There's no logic to hiding his death, especially since it will have nothing to do with stopping al Qaeda...I see no reason to hide it and every reason for whoever got him to proudly tell the world, which is what's been happening.

Seriously, PN (not that any of what you offer is serious), Faux News??? You offer THEM as proof of something? Wow...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 2:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Actually, Clinton ordered the hit in 1998. Bush just gave up looking. While he wasn't looking, Osama died of natural causes. As Frem said, every major news source in the world reported it, including all of ours.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.





I left Clinton out because right-wingers assure me that he never tried to get Osama, and if he did, it was only to distract attention from his extramarital affairs.



Wait a minute... Are you suggesting that Obama's having an affair?!



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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 3:55 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 5:17 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Actually, Clinton ordered the hit in 1998. Bush just gave up looking. While he wasn't looking, Osama died of natural causes. As Frem said, every major news source in the world reported it, including all of ours.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.




They all reported a claim made by a country with a very vested interest in him not being found or looked for. Never was the story confirmed - a detail conspiracy fans like to jump past.

And Jesus PN - we ALL know that pic is a fake. No one is claiming it to be real. Posting it over and over is utterly pointless.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 5:33 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 6:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Correct. Cheney was personally water boarding those detainees, for the sheer fun of it. And when he had to stop, he shot a guy in the face, just to get that rush of torturing....


Left wingers are fun to make fun of.

I'm sure we'll see cries for Obama to be tried as a war criminal, for invading a sovereign nation, killing innocent civilians, and then shooting an unarmed man in the face.

Water boarding to gain valuable information? Hell, THAT'S a crime !!!

But this ? Naw.... no biggie.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 6:48 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Osama Bin Laden really shouldn't have used his real name and address on the playstation 3 network

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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 12:28 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Water boarding to gain valuable information? Hell, THAT'S a crime !!!
Snark doesn’t work unless you can prove valuable information was gained by waterboarding. Which you can’t.
Quote:

They all reported a claim made by a country with a very vested interest in him not being found or looked for. Never was the story confirmed - a detail conspiracy fans like to jump past.
Ahh, thank you very much Story. I never saw any of that (not surprising as I didn’t watch much of the news until the last couple of years) and couldn’t figure out why some were so convinced, saying it was in all OUR media at the time. That makes more sense; I appreciate it.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 1:41 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Osama Bin Laden really shouldn't have used his real name and address on the playstation 3 network




Signing up for Yelp didn't help, either. And once it was revealed that Apple was tracking his iPhone, he was truly screwed.

But if it was the PSN, they'd not have found him for the last few weeks, since their network is STILL freaking down!

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Thursday, May 5, 2011 2:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

Water boarding to gain valuable information? Hell, THAT'S a crime !!!
Snark doesn’t work unless you can prove valuable information was gained by waterboarding. Which you can’t.



While we're not going to come out and plainely state that we got X information from Y detainee, on such and such a date, after waterboarding him 3 times....it's a good bet that waterboarding, or the mere threat of such, aided in the procurement of valuable info relevant to the capture of UBL.

Don't believe me ? Ask Leon Panetta.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Once again: Panetta said they got "some" of their intelligence from detainees. Nowhere does he say they got it via waterboarding. Why wouldn't they, if they did get intel that way? For a long time, the Bush administration was JUSTIFYING waterboarding as having provided important intel (tho' they didn't tell us WHAT exactly, I believe), so if it "validified" waterboarding, why wouldn't they be hollering it to the skies?

In fact, as far as I know, nowhere has ANYONE pointed to specific valid information attained via waterboarding; they've tried to imply it, they've skirted around it in hopes nobody notices the absence, but I've yet to hear of one verifiable case where waterboarding brought about valid intel.

What I have found is
Quote:

... C.I.A. interrogators were ordered to waterboard one of the captives despite their belief that he had no more information to divulge.

According to many Bush administration officials, including former Vice President Dick Cheney and some intelligence officers who are critics of the coercive methods, the C.I.A. program would also produce an invaluable trove of information on Al Qaeda, including leads on the whereabouts of important operatives and on terror schemes discussed by Al Qaeda. Whether the same information could have been acquired using the traditional, noncoercive methods that the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the military have long used is impossible to say, and former Bush administration officials say they did not have the luxury of time to develop a more patient approach, given that they had intelligence warnings of further attacks.
...
This issue could be put to an end quickly with the release of such information. Either it was an effective method or it was not.

http://www.bloggersbase.com/waterboarding/
Quote:

The torture program established by the CIA appears to have played a minor role, at most, in the intelligence effort that eventually lead to Osama bin Laden’s death. From the evidence released so far, electronic surveillance and old-fashioned intel methods were far more important.

The trail starts with al-Qaida detainees captured in the early days of the war on terrorism, when the Bush administration authorized the CIA to use abusive methods like waterboarding to extract information. Detainees identified a courier for bin Laden as a “protégé” of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a “trusted assistant” of former al-Qaida #3 Abu Faraj al-Libbi. And they gave up the courier’s nom de guerre.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was captured in Pakistan in 2003, with al-Libbi following suit in 2005. A U.S. official tells the Associated Press reports that Mohammed gave up the courier’s nom de guerre, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, while in one of the CIA’s brutal “black site” prisons. As Marcy Wheeler notes, that’s not the same thing as saying the 183 waterboarding sessions Mohammed received led interrogators to the nom de guerre. But let’s be charitable to them and presume it did. According to the Washington Post, al-Libbi confirmed the alias as well.

From what we know so far, that’s about all waterboarding yielded for the hunt for al-Kuwaiti.

The senior administration official told reporters on Sunday that “for years, we were unable to identify his true name or his location.” It took until “four years ago” — 2007, then — for intelligence officials to learn al-Kuwaiti’s real name. By then, President Bush had ceased waterboarding and shuttered the black sites, moving the detainees within them, including Mohammed and al-Libbi, to Guantanamo Bay. In a Monday interview, Donald Rumsfeld said “normal” interrogation techniques were used at Gitmo on those detainees.

If this timeline is correct — and there may be a lot of adjustment to it in the days and years to come — then that means waterboarding and other abusive techniques failed to get the name out of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libbi. A New York Times account has both men claiming not to know even the courier’s nom de guerre, which actually may have counted as a kind of confirmation by omission in this case. That says something about the limits of brute force in interrogation.

It took more traditional sleuthing to get al-Kuwaiti’s real name, according to the Times. That meant putting more operatives on the ground in Afghanistan and Pakistan to track him, yielding a partial name. Once they had that, they unleashed “one of their greatest investigative tools“: the National Security Agency’s surveillance net. The NSA monitored email and phone traffic until they had his full name: Shaikh Abu Ahmed.

Last summer, the Associated Press reports, al-Kuwaiti/Ahmed made a fatal mistake: he called someone under NSA surveillance. After showing up on the grid, CIA operatives on the ground were able to hunt him. In July, CIA’s team of Pakistani informants tailed him, writing down his license plate number. That led them to the Abbottabad compound, which was off the communications grid to avoid precisely the mistake that al-Kuwaiti/Ahmed made. Even so, as my colleague David Axe explores in detail, lots of overhead surveillance tools helped U.S. intelligence isolate and understand the compound.

Everyone involved in the takedown of bin Laden can be proud of their contributions — especially the CIA, which has taken a ton of criticism for implementing the old torture program during the years after 9/11. And the torture question isn’t just an operational one, it’s a moral one: even had torture led directly to bin Laden, the morality of torture requires a separate moral judgment (as well as a legal one).

In this rather huge example, those questions appear less relevant. Waterboarding and other torture methods didn’t give the real name and location of the courier. Old fashioned human spying and electronic dragnets did that. For now, the most that can be said about the “enhanced interrogation program” is that it may have led to the nom de guerre of the courier, which got the ball rolling. That’s not nothing, and it complicates the operational case against torture. But even that is less than certain, and it hit its limits when trying to ascertain Ahmed’s real name.

“One would think that if so-called ‘enhanced interrogations’ provided the magic silver bullet,” writes Jane Mayer of the New Yorker, who’s expertly chronicled torture in the post-9/11 era, “and if the courier was a protégé of K.S.M.’s, then the C.I.A. might have wrapped this up back in 2003, while they were waterboarding the 9/11 mastermind a hundred and eighty-three times.”

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/surveillance-not-waterboarding
-led-to-bin-laden
/

That's my belief, and how I feel about it. Unless anyone can cite any specific piece of important information gained by waterboarding specifically, there's no justification for it...even if information WAS gained, in my opinion it is morally reprehensible.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Another site claims waterboarding works by
Quote:

“We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situation… clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” Panetta told NBC News anchor Brian Williams.
Again, Panetta VERY CAREFULLY didn't say "enhanced interrogation techniques" (of which there are many, waterboarding only being one)brought about the information, just that it came from some detainees and the techniques were used against some of them.

And another:
Quote:

"In the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here," he told NBC News. "It's a little difficult to say it was due just to one source of information that we got. I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees."
There's no way to know if enhanced interrogation methods led to that one crucial piece of intelligence.

Some sources are crowing that it did, but if you read the text and what Panetta said, there is no definitive connection made.
And yet another:
Quote:

"Whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always gonna be an open question," Panetta said.

"In the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here," Panetta said. "We had a multiple source — a multiple series of sources — that provided information with regards to the situation. Clearly some of it came from detainees and the interrogation of detainees but we also had information from other sources as well."
...
Under questioning by a committee member, Holder said he did not know whether information helpful to the search for bin Laden was gained through harsh interrogation techniques of al-Qaida suspects.

But was it harsh interrogation that led to the critical information? The identity and whereabouts of the courier came to light only years later, after the enhanced interrogation had stopped.






Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, May 5, 2011 9:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh come now, is there anyone here outside of the rightwingnut koolaid drinkers who DOESN'T think Leon Edward Panetta is so completely fulla shit that anything he says is laughable ?

Seriously, when someone has lied so often, and so much, why the hell would you suddenly start choosing to believe them when they start telling you what you want to hear ?

If anything, that's when you should be MOST skeptical!

-F

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Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


IS he telling us what we want to hear? I thought most people WANTED to believe waterboarding produced important information...? I don't necessarily believe or disbelieve what he's saying, and choosing his words so carefully might well mean he's trying to actually avoid saying waterboarding got them info. But what with the timing and all, I tend to disbelieve they got anything important that led to killing bin Laden. In which case, whether waterboarded or not, what they got was just a smidgen of information.

Mostly, what I've heard/read is that they started getting info AFTER they stopped waterboarding and used more humane methods. Whatever.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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