This is how you deal w/ Westboro Cult trash.... by AURaptor

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

This is how you deal w/ Westboro Cult trash....

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, May 9, 2011 14:46
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VIEWED: 3959
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Thursday, May 5, 2011 11:47 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Socially acceptable or not, I have opinions against homosexual actions, its true that society has swung rapidly towards everyone thinking its okay and most people are afraid to say if they don't think its okay. I don't mind saying I don't think same-sex sex is okay. I have friends who do it and they know its not something I approve of, but what they do in their own home is their choice and I have no right to stop them, its their decision what they do.

I know what you mean Byte, about a 300 foot rule being a slippery slope, how about a 100 foot rule instead.

No matter how I feel about a moral issue I would never protest at a funeral, ever, because a funeral is for the family and even if I didn't agree with something that someone may have done somewhere at some time I want their family to have a good experience because their family loved them. I wouldn't even protest at a corrupt dictator's funeral because even corrupt dictators have families who loved them, the funeral isn't for the deceased, its for the family left behind.

And those Westboro folk are trashy to the extreme and I will never agree with them and their views of waht is acceptable behavior.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, May 5, 2011 12:10 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

The first sentence is related, the rest mostly a worried rant concerning a friend.

I just heard form a friend who lives in Savannah that the Westboro's are coming to protest a funeral their an about a month. He seemed quite eager to be their in person when it happened. I worry a bit for my friend, he has a tendency to get filled with what he must see as 'righteous fury' which doesn't make sense to me on account of him being anti-religious. He resorts to violence a bit to quickly and his morals a mite too flexible when it comes to people he doesn't like, yet claims to be big into the whole karma thing. I don't really get it... I suspect he don't either.

Anyway, he asked me what I thought of them, wanted to hear from a 'Christian' he said. My language was a little colorful not very flattering, but I did try to convince him the just leave them alone. Paying attention to them only empowers them further. I fear he's more interested in beating someone up. He does things like this and sees it as 'acceptable' because he views said people as douchebags, which they were, but I can't seem to convince him that fact doesn't make it right.

Oh well, maybe he'll oversleep or be too lazy or stoned to get himself into trouble.

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Thursday, May 5, 2011 5:03 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
In my opinion, any "class" that is tormented, abused, and discriminated against SHOULD be protected. You know, like women, Blacks, Jews...oh, and Muslims. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving homosexuals the same respect we would give anyone else...that's kind of like saying it's "socially unacceptable to have an opinion" FOR slavery. I think it should be. Although it vascilates back and forth, hopefully society's tolerance evolves over time. I think that's a good thing.

Ah yes, the criticism of political correctness. "We've come too far..." "In my day.." I think we forget how even recently racism, sexism and homophobia were ingrained into our culture, and still lurk just under the surface (here at least).

I watch reruns of old shows sometimes, I'm always amazed at how denigrating women, people of other races, gays and so on was considered hilarious. But it isn't funny. It's viscious and nasty at worst, and shamelessly reinforcing negative stereotypes at best. I like that people have to mind their p's and q's and think before they speak. I still know people who are shamelessly homophobic, love to tell a gay joke when they've had a few drinks. At my son's school, 'gay' is the first choice of insult. There is a long way to go.

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Friday, May 6, 2011 1:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
In my opinion, any "class" that is tormented, abused, and discriminated against SHOULD be protected. You know, like women, Blacks, Jews...oh, and Muslims. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving homosexuals the same respect we would give anyone else...that's kind of like saying it's "socially unacceptable to have an opinion" FOR slavery. I think it should be. Although it vascilates back and forth, hopefully society's tolerance evolves over time. I think that's a good thing.

Once you start treating people as members of a group, and not as individuals, you dehumanize them.

We're all just folk.

The sooner we start treating each other like that, the sooner we can expect every one to act like that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, May 6, 2011 2:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:
In my opinion, any "class" that is tormented, abused, and discriminated against SHOULD be protected. You know, like women, Blacks, Jews...oh, and Muslims. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving homosexuals the same respect we would give anyone else...that's kind of like saying it's "socially unacceptable to have an opinion" FOR slavery. I think it should be. Although it vascilates back and forth, hopefully society's tolerance evolves over time. I think that's a good thing.

Once you start treating people as members of a group, and not as individuals, you dehumanize them.

We're all just folk.

The sooner we start treating each other like that, the sooner we can expect every one to act like that.

Y'know, that *ALMOST* sounds like you're speaking out against... well, YOURSELF with this post.

So when you refer to the entire group as "Westboro Cult Trash", you obviously don't mean the whole group, right? And you weren't trying to dehumanize them in any way, right?

And when you say that you'd initiate violence against them, you obviously don't mean that against anyone in the group, right? And when you applaud a mob (or "group") beating down an individual, you weren't applauding them doing it because he was part of a group, right? You're actually applauding them beating him down as an individual, right?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, May 6, 2011 2:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Knew it would be a hard concept for you to comprehend, so I'll try again, and type slowly, so you can follow along.

The Westboro Cult ? They CHOSE to identify themselves with crazy. They weren't born a certain color, or gender... which is completely different than what I was commenting on w/ regards to Niki's quote.

Treating folks a certain way because of skin color, ethnicity, gender, etc... basically prejudging them because they look and act a certain way. A black guy in a t-shirt and dreadlocks... can't be a genius at math and physics ? Who says ? Or that, because he looks a certain way, he MUST vote for Obama, and agree with Jesse Jackson ?

It's called IDENTITY POLITICS. Look it up.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, May 6, 2011 5:02 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
under force of law or not, homosexuals are now a de facto protected class.
In my opinion, any "class" that is tormented, abused, and discriminated against SHOULD be protected. You know, like women, Blacks, Jews...oh, and Muslims. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving homosexuals the same respect we would give anyone else...that's kind of like saying it's "socially unacceptable to have an opinion" FOR slavery. I think it should be. Although it vascilates back and forth, hopefully society's tolerance evolves over time. I think that's a good thing.

So, you think the wealthy should also be a protected class? I mean, they are targeted for felonious crimes in their own category, such as embezzlement, kidnapping, extortion, intrusion of privacy. The middle class and the poor aren't subject to these crimes to the extent that the wealthy are. Just playing devil's advocate with your argument.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, May 6, 2011 5:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA

What I don't understand, and I have been biting my tongue on this a while, is why nobody, NOBODY else has brought property rights into it.

Factually most funeral homes and cemetaries are private property, and so if you don't want Phelps and his slobbering horde malingering on your turf, throw em off, or have em arrested for trespass after warning if they refuse to be civil and leave, problem solved.

And no, it's not a violation of their rights, because they violated the rights of the property owner in refusing to respect a request to leave.

Now, if there's a nearby public venue, that's on them, but likely it's gonna be far enough away that you don't *NEED* an ordinance like that, which'll just be misused and abused any time some local dickhead politician gets his undies in a twist when called on his bullshit, neh ?

Y'all take such simple stuff and make such a goddamned *issue* of it sometimes, I begin to wonder... no, strike that, happen to be fairly certain, that some are simply using the situation as a freakin excuse to encourage bending the law in their favor so they can eventually use it to beat down folks who dare disagree with em, on anything whatever.

To which, I consider that, and always have, a critical weakness of philosophy - for if your belief, theory, or concept cannot exist and function unless ALL conflicting ones are suppressed or destroyed, it means your belief, theory or concept is an utter failure in any realistic sense.

Phelps and his ilk can only hurt us if we're fucking STUPID enough, to go laying about with a social and legal sledgehammer, causing massive collateral damage in much the same fashion as an angry giant trying to swat a damn mosquito - and playing right into their hands is a damn idiotic thing to do when the essential solution has been right there in front of you the whole goddamn time.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, May 6, 2011 2:59 PM

KWICKO

Hell, Frem, *MY* solution was ridicule. Point and laugh mercilessly. The only thing they can't handle is people who refuse to take them seriously.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, May 6, 2011 3:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth. -Theodore Roosevelt

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, May 6, 2011 4:26 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth. -Theodore Roosevelt

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Hello,

I have two questions re: Roosevelt.

1) How does this quote pertain to the subject at hand?

2) When and in what format was this said? (Speech given on X day, X location, Book written with Y title, etc?)

Thanks,

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, May 6, 2011 4:49 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth. -Theodore Roosevelt

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Hello,

I have two questions re: Roosevelt.

1) How does this quote pertain to the subject at hand?

2) When and in what format was this said? (Speech given on X day, X location, Book written with Y title, etc?)

Thanks,

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

1) It doesn't.

2) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Theodore_Roosevelt

See "unsourced quotes". I think if Kevin Spacey uttered such a thing, Rappy would accuse him of "lying".

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, May 6, 2011 4:56 PM

KWICKO

Teddy R. left the Republican Party to lead the Progressive Party, didn't he?

What do they call progressives these days? Liberals, isn't it?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, May 6, 2011 6:42 PM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Teddy R. left the Republican Party to lead the Progressive Party, didn't he?

What do they call progressives these days? Liberals, isn't it?

Tranzis.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Sunday, May 8, 2011 6:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Good point Frem, it is true that I have the right to throw people off my property if they're Lani and I don't want them there. I think the problem is that cemetaries are public property, aren't they? Plus all the military funeral things, the 21 gun salutes etc. have to be done outdoors, so one can see the goons protesting on the sidewalk while one does them. I just wish that people didn't feel the need to be Westboro cult trash and violate other people's funerals. Then we wouldn't have to debate this subject. I still hold that they have the right to do it, as much as I don't like them doing it, but I can't blame people for trying to find ways to "encourage" them not to. I'm still sticking with my public militia thing and the 100-feet-of-a-funeral idea is still tantilizing to me, they could still do their thing but it wouldn't be _right _there in your face. So the question is: Are cemetaries private property?

Happy, about your friend: Maybe he could join his public militia and they could be there to encourage the Westboro folk to be quiet about there hideousness and stay a bit away from the funeral. I doubt that him beating anyone up would solve anything, it would only result in him getting charged with beating up folk and then he'd be even more pissed off at the world. But I totally sympathize with him, even though I've thought about it and decided that he's the one who gets the shaft if he tries it.

That's really pathetic, that they sit around and plan whose funeral they're going to cause trouble at next, get a life people. (insert disgusted face here)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, May 9, 2011 12:04 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
So, you think the wealthy should also be a protected class? I mean, they are targeted for felonious crimes in their own category, such as embezzlement, kidnapping, extortion, intrusion of privacy. The middle class and the poor aren't subject to these crimes to the extent that the wealthy are. Just playing devil's advocate with your argument.

Hardware, that's absurd, and you know it. The wealthy are not "tormented, abused, and discriminated against" in any way in this country! There is nothing they're not allowed to do...even crimes, if they have the money to buy the right lawyer, they get away with when less wealthy people end up in jail.

That is such a poor argument it made me smile. The rich aren’t a “class” in the way others I mentioned are, they include all religions, sexes, races, etc., to begin with. Beyond that, they don’t suffer anything like any of the ways others are discriminated against.

Frem, property rights is a very valid argument. I may be wrong, but I got the impression the WC protests OUTSIDE the cemetery/funeral home, on the sidewalk or somesuch. I think if they did so on the cemetery/funeral home GROUNDS, they’d have been tossed out to begin with.

Ahhh, there comes Raptor, with a post having nothing to do with the issue at hand, as usual, and just a snark against the left. How predictable! I would ask the same questions as Anthony, but I already knew it would have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and asking for details or a cite is a waste of time. Sorry, Anthony!

So the quote is “unsourced”, eh Mike? I don’t find that surprising; I googled it, and got lots and lots of hits...of conservatives quoting it. Couldn’t find a single source, just people repeating what sounded good to them. Didn’t surprise me much. I’d dare Raptor to come up with a source, but a) he never bothers with the truth of what he’s saying, and b) he doesn’t care. Would be interesting if anyone could trace it to the actual source, tho’. Doesn’t matter to me one way or another, it’s just a stupid thing someone said that others enjoy repeating. Duh...

IS a cemetery public land, Riona? I don’t know; I kind of thought it was owned by someone, but maybe that someone is the city or other government. I don’t know.

The whole thing is very simple, for me. I find them detestable, but would no more usurp their freedom of speech myself than I would accept the government usurping MINE. I would look for imaginative ways to make them moot, some great ones of which I have already heard. Imagination beats violence, every time, in my book.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, May 9, 2011 2:43 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Teddy R. left the Republican Party to lead the Progressive Party, didn't he?

What do they call progressives these days? Liberals, isn't it?

Tranzis.

Was that what GOP Congressman Christopher Lee was cruising Craigslist for when he got outed and resigned?

Several D.C.-area "trannies" came forward saying he'd contacted them for "dates" in the past. No wonder he quit so fast when the story his the papers!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, May 9, 2011 2:46 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

So the quote is “unsourced”, eh Mike? I don’t find that surprising; I googled it, and got lots and lots of hits...of conservatives quoting it. Couldn’t find a single source, just people repeating what sounded good to them. Didn’t surprise me much. I’d dare Raptor to come up with a source, but a) he never bothers with the truth of what he’s saying, and b) he doesn’t care. Would be interesting if anyone could trace it to the actual source, tho’. Doesn’t matter to me one way or another, it’s just a stupid thing someone said that others enjoy repeating. Duh...

According to WikiQuote it's unsourced; couldn't find any verifiable cites of it anywhere else, either.

Which is especially funny given the way Rappy whinged and wheedled about Kevin Spacey "lying" about Churchill's "quote". And here's Rappy, apparently "lying" about a Teddy Roosevelt "quote" that he can't cite a valid source for!

Of course, when Rappy does it, it's not "lying".

Right?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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