REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The man who drew the GOP's 'line in the sand'

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, July 17, 2011 08:43
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Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Regarding:
Quote:

Some political analysts watching the debt ceiling talks in Washington lament that the no-tax-hike pledge signed by most congressional Republicans may prevent a grand compromise in which tax increases accompany spending cuts.

To the man who leads the interest group behind the pledge, that's pretty much the idea.

I never knew the following:
Quote:

At the heart of the contentious talks between the White House and congressional Republicans on whether to raise the debt ceiling is a simple, one-sentence document many conservative lawmakers have signed, pledging not to increase taxes.

Ever.

"I _____ pledge to the taxpayers of the state of _____ and all the people of this state, that I will oppose and vote against all efforts to increase taxes," reads the version of the pledge signed by Republican lawmakers.

The driving force behind that pledge -- and perhaps the most powerful man in Washington that you've never heard about -- is a bearded, unassuming conservative activist who has never been elected to a public office.

Grover Norquist, president and founder of Americans for Tax Reform, is both respected and feared in the inner circles of Washington.

He has worked under Ronald Reagan, is close friends with Karl Rove and has been connected to scandals involving onetime Christian Coalition chief Ralph Reed and convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

He started the pledge campaign in 1985 and now has hundreds of names. He has the originals safely stored away, on file in perpetuity, just in case.

"We keep the originals in a vault that can't be burned, and we have multiple copies that can't be lost. So their pledges will be there forever," Norquist said.

.....

Norquist also has the ear of powerful Republican leaders, many who won't act on sensitive budget issues unless he has signed off.

.....

Every Wednesday morning Norquist convenes a meeting of prominent Republicans, political activists and GOP operatives to plan strategies.

.....

Norquist is using his leverage and clout in the ongoing debt ceiling negotiations. He is pressuring Republicans to hold firm and oppose tax hikes as part of a compromise.

.....

Michael Ettlinger, vice president for economic policy at the Center for American Progress, contended many Republican lawmakers would be more willing to compromise, if not for Norquist's threats of retribution if they stray from the pledge.

"We're getting to the point where we need serious people to sit down and make serious decisions, and drawing really hard lines in the sand the way Grover does is hurting the country," Ettlinger said, "and I think people who are signing that pledge are starting to recognize that and realize that that kind of hard line just is not in the best interest of the country."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/14/norquist.pledge/index.html?hpt=
hp_bn4


Well, I doubt that last part, but that one man not elected to any office can have such sway is abominable. I know they exist, but this one really pisses me off, at a time like this and in this situation.

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Saturday, July 16, 2011 7:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bumping because nobody ever picked up on this, and I think it's important. I never knew about Norquist before all this, and I question whether what he's doing is good for the country, or an effort at blackmail to control the agenda and push his ideology.
Quote:

Some political analysts watching the debt ceiling talks in Washington lament that the no-tax-hike pledge signed by most congressional Republicans may prevent a compromise in which tax increases accompany spending cuts.

To the man who leads the interest group behind the pledge, that's pretty much the idea.

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform -- the group whose oppose-all-tax-increases vow was signed by 235 House members and 41 senators, almost all of them Republicans -- said the pledge is doing what it's supposed to: preventing what he says are mistakes of 1982 and 1990, namely agreeing to tax increases and watching promised spending cuts evaporate.

Signed pledges are nothing new for politicians, but the debt talks and the approaching presidential campaign make them hard to miss. Some political analysts, including CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, are particularly vexed with Americans for Tax Reform's Taxpayer Protection Pledge. In a column, Borger argued the pledge may prevent what signees otherwise would want -- Democrats' approval of significant spending cuts and entitlement reforms as part of a deal to trim the United States' $14 trillion debt.

Administration officials say the country needs to raise its $14.3 trillion debt ceiling by August to avoid a partial default on loan obligations, and Republicans have demanded spending cuts as a prerequisite. Obama says that in return, he wants new tax revenue -- largely in the form of ending Bush-era tax cuts for wealthy Americans in 2013 -- to combine with the cuts to reduce the debt by $4 trillion over the next 10-12 years. Republicans, though, say they won't sign on to any tax increases.

"Pledges are proliferating in political campaigns, and people are being asked to sign up to things that ... (in some cases) lock their hands so they can't act," CNN senior political analyst David Gergen said.

It's yet to be seen whether the tax pledge will keep tax increases from a debt deal. In any event, interest groups' visibility is growing, and so is the tactic of demanding signed pledges from politicians, said Stuart Rothenberg, editor of the nonpartisan Rothenberg Political Report.

"Politicians used to look to guidance from parties. Now they look to guidance -- or threats -- from interest groups," Rothenberg said. "As parities have diminished and these outside groups have flourished, I think you see more of these pledges."

There are old-fashioned, spoken campaign promises. And then there are pledges that interest groups fashion and a candidate signs, presumably knowing the group is prepared to announce any signee's deviation to the public.

Conservative groups aren't alone in pushing pledges. The Progressive Change Campaign Committee says more than 120 members of Congress, nearly all of them Democrats, are signees of a pledge to not privatize Social Security or raise the retirement age.

"I think there's a tendency for candidates to believe they have to appeal to the base, and there's a kind of threshold of credibility that they need to achieve, and that leads them to signing these pledges," Rothenberg said.

He said there's no good data on how useful pledges are to candidates. The utility depends on the issue mix and the candidates' credentials and skill -- many refuse a pledge and cast themselves in a I-decide-for-myself light. But in some cases, "if you don't sign the pledge, it can define you as a candidate, and you might spend the rest of the campaign defending and trying to move away from that issue," Rothenberg said.

GOP presidential candidate Jon Huntsman, a former Utah governor, has made some high-profile refusals to sign pledges, including the "Cut, Cap and Balance" vow that demands Congress oppose raising the debt ceiling unless it makes significant budget cuts and passes a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution.

His refusal to sign that pledge, pushed by a coalition of conservative groups and signed by most other GOP presidential candidates, led U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, a Tea Party favorite, to say Huntsman was out of the running for his support.

"Other than the pledge of allegiance, I don't do a whole lot of pledges," Huntsman told CNN last month after DeMint's statement.

The Susan B. Anthony List asks presidential candidates to commit to its Pro-Life Citizens Pledge, in which signees agree to, among other things, select only anti-abortion rights appointees for certain Cabinet and executive branch positions. The group's communications director, Ciara Matthews, said "no one wants a candidate who goes out on a campaign trail and say, 'When it comes to debt reduction or pro-life issues, I don't know what I'm going to do.' "

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/14/pledges.interest.groups/index.h
tml?hpt=hp_bn4


That last one really bothers me. Should any one person or group have the power to blackmail candidates/politicians to follow their agenda? If they have the power to defeat a candidate who either doesn't sign their pledges or goes against them, what does that say about democracy?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, July 16, 2011 9:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I think the whole bloody thing is a violation of their Oath of Service - which I know in this day and age of perfidous politics, no one takes a persons sworn word very seriously, but still, if they have a pre-existing agreement that holds them to conduct in violation of that Oath they have then acted in bad faith, perjured themselves in spirit if not fact, and should immediately face impeachment/recall.

Of course, as for single powers having the ability to bend politicians on whim, I find it VERY telling that the first campaign stop of the average american presidential hopeful isn't Washington, it's Tel Aviv - THAT pisses me off, when a foreign power has so much control over (supposedly) OUR elected officials, that they're expected to go kowtow to those bastards and seek their approval before even trying to appease their supposed constituents - not to mention it gives folk like PN endless ammo and adds credibility to their lunacy.

So it's a matter of priority there - both problems need to be addressed, but I'd prefer to get the foreign money and influence out of our elections before addressing the domestic, not that we can't do both, but given the backlash, adventurism, military quagmaires, kingmaking and all this bullshit that winds up with half the world wanting to put knives in our back, benefits us not a whit, all to appease so-called-allies who think we're their bitch....
I think that's more dangerous and should be addressed first, because we simply cannot survive as a nation and people unless our politicians serve THIS country and its interests first, not some other countries at our expense and peril.

Any of it's a violation of the Oath of Service, mind you, and should be called out, but which one is more likely to end in mushroom clouds, neh ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, July 16, 2011 9:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'm a little surprised that you didn't know about Norquist, Niki. He *IS* the modern iteration of the neo-conservative, and the physical embodiment of the movement.

And he only has any power at all because he's a huckster who's managed to wrongly convince others that he has some kind of power.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Agreed, Mike. I'm still a neophite on a lot of the behind-the-sceens wheeling and dealing that goes on. I've learned TONS since coming here, and do a lot more searches than I used to, but it's an unending voyage.

By the way, huckster, yes, but if he's convinced people he has power, then he HAS power, don't you think?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:12 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Most Conservatives I know think all those types of pledges are ridiculous. And believe it or not, we support a compromise deal for the budget and debt ceiling. Real spending cuts across the board, along with corporate loophole and subsidy closings, and a small tax increase on the top 5%. Cantor, Bachmann and the rest of the Tea Party crowd ought to recognize that their insane draconian enslaved devotion to protecting multi-millionnaires is both stupid and destructive to their own self interests.








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Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:12 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, he has actual power, only insomuch as he's been successful at getting others to FEAR him.

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Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Most Conservatives I know think all those types of pledges are ridiculous. And believe it or not, we support a compromise deal for the budget and debt ceiling. Real spending cuts across the board, along with corporate loophole and subsidy closings, and a small tax increase on the top 5%. Cantor, Bachmann and the rest of the Tea Party crowd, ought to recognize that their insane draconian enslaved devotion to protecting multi-millionnaires is both stupid and destructive to their own self interests.





Latest polling does indeed show you to be in the majority, Jongs, even within the Republican party.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/debt-ceiling-tax-hike


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Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:31 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Most Conservatives I know think all those types of pledges are ridiculous. And believe it or not, we support a compromise deal for the budget and debt ceiling. Real spending cuts across the board, along with corporate loophole and subsidy closings, and a small tax increase on the top 5%. Cantor, Bachmann and the rest of the Tea Party crowd, ought to recognize that their insane draconian enslaved devotion to protecting multi-millionnaires is both stupid and destructive to their own self interests.




Latest polling does indeed show you to be in the majority, Jongs, even within the Republican party.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/debt-ceiling-tax-hike



Speaker Boehner doesn't seem to have the ability to direct House Republicans to do anything these days. It's a sad and dire situation we're in now because Bush, Obama, and Congress have all raped and squandered America's wealth with their mindless and reckless spending sprees from 2001 to 2011....almost $ 10 Trillion in new national debt in that time!












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Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, JS, I really appreciate that. I know the majority of the COUNTRY feels that way, but with all the noise politicians make, I didn't think it was many Republicans. Of course, how you or I feel is totally unimportant to them, so they'll go on their merry way with their "insane draconian enslaved devotion to protecting multi-millionaires" anyway...sigh...

But selfishly, I wish you were around more; I know we've agreed on some stuff in the past, and I'm always wishing for more GOOD voices from the right to help me remember you guys are out there. I wish more of you would make noise to remind the rest of us...stereotypes are hard to avoid when there's so much static.

But it is nonetheless very important to be reminded that many (if not most) Republicans DO have two brain cells to rub together and DO see the actual situation for what it is. I hear so much crap from the ones yelling loudest, over time I tend to believe they really speak for all of you.

Given the threats I hear all the time, I sincerely hope you're right and that those who go against such pledges don't get defeated next time they run for office.

And I've felt sorry for Boehner for quite some time now. He's stuck between common sense and "a hard (core of Tea Party) place", and I don't know how he proceeds toward any reasonable solution in this situation.

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