The National Budget by Wulfenstar

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The National Budget

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Thursday, August 4, 2011 13:11
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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 4:40 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

How to fix it.

1. A flat federal income tax of 5% (with a Constitutional Amendment stating that it will never be raised beyond that.)

2. Cuts. Cut our spending to 50% of taxes coming in. The remaining 50% will go to our debt. This will continue until the debt is paid.

3. A Constitutional Amendment stating that the Congress must balance its budget. Once the "bills" to other countries have been paid, taxes will be cut.

4. NO NEW SPENDING. No "pet projects", NOTHING. AFTER the bill has been paid, all new pet projects must be ratified fully.

5. STOP PRINTING MONEY!

6. Get rid of, or fully defund ObamaCare.

7. Medicare, Medicaid, must be phased out in favor of 401ks.

8. Cap Welfare at 2 years. A one time only deal.

9. No more bailouts. Too big to fail? Its absurd. Let them fail and another BETTER company to take its place.

10. End the wars. End the BATFE. Legalize certain drugs.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 4:57 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
How to fix it.

1. A flat federal income tax of 5% (with a Constitutional Amendment stating that it will never be raised beyond that.)

Horrible idea revenues would be far to little to run the government. That and a flat tax sounds fair, but it is not. It always places more of the burden on the lower and middle incomes.

Quote:
2. Cuts. Cut our spending to 50% of taxes coming in. The remaining 50% will go to our debt. This will continue until the debt is paid.

With number one we would not even have enough to pay the interest payments.

Quote:
3. A Constitutional Amendment stating that the Congress must balance its budget. Once the "bills" to other countries have been paid, taxes will be cut.

A balance budget requirement for the federal government is a horrible idea. The government would not be able to respond to emergencies among other things.

Quote:
4. NO NEW SPENDING. No "pet projects", NOTHING. AFTER the bill has been paid, all new pet projects must be ratified fully.

Those pet projects normally help state and local communities and make up a small % of the total federal budget.

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5. STOP PRINTING MONEY!

The US rarely prints more money. The only recent example of this was quantitative easing.

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6. Get rid of, or fully defund ObamaCare.

That would cost more!

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7. Medicare, Medicaid, must be phased out in favor of 401ks.

401ks are retirement funds and have nothing to do with health care.

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8. Cap Welfare at 2 years. A one time only deal.

...and do what with the children, let them starve?

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9. No more bailouts. Too big to fail? Its absurd. Let them fail and another BETTER company to take its place.

That worked so well with Lehman Brothers.

Quote:
10. End the wars. End the BATFE. Legalize certain drugs.

Endign wars good, Ending the ATF is debatable, I support Legalizing drugs.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 6:07 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
A balance budget requirement for the federal government is a horrible idea. The government would not be able to respond to emergencies among other things.

On the other hand, there's some responses that actually it might not be a bad idea to cripple, such as the ability to declare war.

Libya is probably a big mistake, hopefully we don't get involved in Syria, or declare war on Iran or Pakistan, and quite a few of us think that Iraq was a bad idea.

Quote:
Those pet projects normally help state and local communities and make up a small % of the total federal budget.

That's actually true. Defense Spending and Social Security are the big ones, each at about 20% of the federal budget.

At some point, we probably do need to rework social security, because it's not going to be tenable with the population going older like it is. I'm not sure I've heard any good plans how to do it though.

Quote:
6. Get rid of, or fully defund ObamaCare.

That would cost more!

That program is really more of an insurance company gimee, and calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act is kind of a joke. You won't get affordable healthcare until people can negotiate prices with big pharm, and maybe import medicine from Canada.

Combine price negotiation, with maybe medicare, expand the coverage, and you've pretty much solved the health care problem.

Quote:
That worked so well with Lehman Brothers.

I kind of feel like Lehman Brothers exposes a flaw in the entire banking system, beyond just the crappy mortgages and loans. They're too big to fail now, but I'm hoping some alternatives might become competitive.

Otherwise, agree with your response.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:27 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

The problem is I don't believe for a second that a balanced budget requirement would prevent wars. All it would do is take funding from everything else when the money was needed.

The only problem with SS is that since Clinton's time in office SS funds have been rolled into general revenue. SS actually runs a surplus each year.

You right about Health Care Reform, we do need more reforms to really lower overall costs. I do think that the current reform is a step in the right direction, since it requires insurance companies to spend 80% of all premiums on health care service.

Regulations are needed to prevent to-big-fail, Bringing back the Glass-Steagall act would be a good start.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:39 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
The problem is I don't believe for a second that a balanced budget requirement would prevent wars. All it would do is take funding from everything else when the money was needed.

I know. ._. But I can dream.

Quote:
I do think that the current reform is a step in the right direction, since it requires insurance companies to spend 80% of all premiums on health care service.

The problem with that is that their response was to immediately rate hike. Ask Kwicko, he said his rates went up 30 something percent.

I mean, okay, definitely some of the measures in that bill will create a little more fairness in considering people with preexisting conditions and the like, and there's some other positives.

But I don't consider it a win, not by a long shot, because you have to remember how many of the politicians debating about it were in the pockets of insurance industry lobbyists. The only way it could get passed was by making quite a few concessions.

Quote:
The only problem with SS is that since Clinton's time in office SS funds have been rolled into general revenue. SS actually runs a surplus each year.

That's interesting, but it still runs 20% of the budget, and it's a matter of available funds versus number of workers versus number of retirees who are going to be looking for their checks. There's something going on here, and there appears to be a problem that might be looming.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, I don't consider the new health care law to be a "win" by any measure, but I do consider it a step in the right direction--you were never going to get anything with the GOP staunchly against it and Big Pharma and the insurance companies paying their bills. Social Security was apparently a real piece of trash to start with apparently; the concept seems to be "get SOMETHING, then work to make it better". That's how I view this.

As for social security, the only semi-solution I see is to me it IMPOSSIBLE for the government to use it for anything but Social Security...which I'm not sure ever has a chance in hell of happening. If it hadn't been robbed, it would be there now; it may be too late to protect it now, sadly.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Uhh, Nick, we should warn you on this too. Tho' not quite as insane and usually not as nasty, think of Wulf as "Raptor lite". Engage if you wish, but don't expect common sense in return...or sometimes ANY kind of sense. Again, just so's you know...

Did rolling SSI into the general fund start with Clinton? Curse him if that's the case (for other things, too). I thought it was rolled in earlier than that, or in some other way used for things other than SSI.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:51 AM

BYTEMITE

Good points.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 10:09 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

I believe it started with Clinton, it was one of the reasons we had a balanced budget then.

I do understand that I have a slightly rosier outlook on health care reform then most. I also read the both bills and did a full breakdown for another site.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 12:06 PM

DREAMTROVE

Niki

Move soc. Sec. To the states, and make it direct payroll tax to recipient redistribution. Eliminate the 100k tax cap on FICA so everyone pays an equal share, and then limit the payout so that you're not sending welfare to the rich. That would reduce the tax rate from a variable 0-20% to make it 1% across the board. Then cap the overall rate to 3% or so, to give you room to increase benefits.

If it's in state hands and it penny in penny out, it will be hard to steal.

Byte, Nick,

Limiting spending won't preclude war, but it will definitely limit the size. Clinton fought a lot of wars, but the scale has definitely gone up with the budget with these last two presidents.

Wulf,

Your scheme doesn't raise enough revenues to pay for what it wants. I agree with your tax cap, my own choice was 7% cap, butyou will need additional revenue sources. I recommend a constitutional tax on imports. Right now China has a 50% tax on American imports, and the US has a 0% tariff on chinese imports. That's insane, and costing us a fortune. A true free market would seem to indicate that everyone pays the same.

I would renegotiate the debt. I see no reason to pay off interagency IOUz or to pay interest on congressionally allocated federal reserve notes, or mortgage backed securities. This cuts out almost 3/4 of the debt. Pay off the treasuries, whether held by americans or foreigners.

Replacing medicare with 401ks is just nonsensical. Even if you mean "health savings accounts" you should take a look at what a total scam 401ks *are* first. It's often just way for the banks to take 4% of your income and churn it to zero. That's a tax. It's a corporate levying taxes, sort of like like Obamacare, though not as bad because it doesn't tax children or the poor.

I also disagree with the welfare cap. The federal govt. Already ahs one at five years, but really, some people cannot subsist, but I prefer things like EBT.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 12:09 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Afraid I have enough "faith" in politicians, be they fed, state or otherwise, to think they'd find a way around that...sadly.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 2:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
The problem with that is that their response was to immediately rate hike. Ask Kwicko, he said his rates went up 30 something percent.

Actually, I said my rates have gone up close to 30 percent EVERY YEAR for the last five years, UNTIL this year, when they actually went down.

Picture that. Before "ObamaCare", my rates went up massively every year, despite my being healthier and quitting smoking some years ago, and despite my having NOT used my insurance for anything at all.

AFTER "ObamaCare", my rates went DOWN - not by much, but DOWN nonetheless.

According to Rappy and Wulf, that should be impossible.

And I'm damned sick and tired of hearing that "they'll just pass it on to the customer", because EVERY COST IS PASSED ON TO THE CUSTOMER. Besides, that tired old saw carries with it a mythical flip-side: lower costs will be passed on to the customer, too.

Only time after time we see that they just haven't. The last two weeks provide a sterling example. The FAA has been defunded by the actions - or rather inactions - of Congress, meaning there's a very specific tax that they aren't allowed to collect, which is around $50 per airline ticket sold.

Did airlines cut prices because of these savings? Nope. They RAISED prices.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 2:14 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Move soc. Sec. To the states, and make it direct payroll tax to recipient redistribution. Eliminate the 100k tax cap on FICA so everyone pays an equal share, and then limit the payout so that you're not sending welfare to the rich. That would reduce the tax rate from a variable 0-20% to make it 1% across the board. Then cap the overall rate to 3% or so, to give you room to increase benefits.

If it's in state hands and it penny in penny out, it will be hard to steal.

If you make it by law harder to steal, then it's harder to steal, too. Putting it in state hands in no way makes it any harder to steal. Just ask Texas how their lottery is working out, after it was sold to us as "all the profits will go towards education funding". Now next to NO money from the lottery goes to education funding. Of course, not much money from other sources goes to education funding in Texas either, so that's probably got to count as a "win" for conservatives, who despise the idea of educating people...

Meanwhile, back to Social Security. Gore had the right idea, putting it in a "lockbox" and NOT ROBBING IT TO PAY FOR EVERY OTHER GODDAMNED PET PROJECT THAT COMES ALONG, like, say... invading Iraq or Afghanistan (since neither of those wars was officially part of the federal budget).

Remove the cap, yes. But it's going to be a hard sell to tell people who paid in when they were poor working stiffs, and who KEPT paying in as they made more and more money, and who were STILL paying in even when they became billionaires, "Sorry, you're not eligible to collect a penny of that money..."

You can uncap the payroll taxes and cap the benefits in some way ( a maximum monthly payout, for instance ); I know unemployment insurance does that in some places - no matter how much you make, your unemployment maxes out at something like $250/week (sorry, Wulfie, but that's a "government check" that we all DID work and sweat for, because you are only eligible to get out what you paid in).

Anyway, that's all for now, because I'm about to go get something to eat.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 3:26 PM

BYTEMITE

Wow. I'm not really sure how I heard that so wrong then.

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Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:20 AM

DREAMTROVE

Mike

Nothing you can do legislatively will make it harder to steal, because it's protected ultimately by humans. If it's a large sum of money, it will get stolen. Split it up, ant it becomes smaller. If you don't like state, move to county, or city, remember, whoever has it, has to pay it out in a year, so theycan only borrow it and have to get it back from somewhere. I said state because the Feds get it back by borrowing.

But bribes and coverup cost money, so the smaller the sum, the harder it is to steal not because people don't want smaller sums, but because it becomes unprofitable to do so.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, August 3, 2011 6:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mike, yeah

Quote:
And I'm damned sick and tired of hearing that "they'll just pass it on to the customer", because EVERY COST IS PASSED ON TO THE CUSTOMER

They've got a good deal going in that, and nOTHING ever gets passed on to the customer when it comes to prices going DOWN, as you said.

And yeah, that bit about the airlines has been reported a lot lately...they actually raised prices by EXACTLY the amount of the reduction in taxes. Got a good thing going, they do (as does every other business which always passes on costs but never passes on savings...)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:11 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Lately I've been more interested in the idea of looking into having states run more things for themselves. I think this might be cheaper. Now, there are things that I think should be federally run, but I haven't cemented exactly which things those should, or shouldn't, be. I think health care should be more state run as opposed to more federally run. In OR we have the Oregon Health Plan, not perfect but better than what some states have and at least its something. It has gotten smaller since its inception though :(.

I think terriffs are a good thing, down with NAFTA and all that other lets-send-our-jobs-over-seas luh suh.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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