REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Syria intervention an inevitability?

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2011 01:37
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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 5:42 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/29/four-military-optio
ns-for-syria/?hpt=hp_bn2


Hello,

I see more articles like this every day. Almost as though someone is using PR to pave the way.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Maybe paving the way, but they're not alone. The Syrians themselves have begun to ask for help, a new tactic apparently after having said they wanted no international intervention:
Quote:

"It's a crime! Where is the world? Why doesn't anyone see?" cried one distraught resident through the phone, the sound of gunfire heard clearly in the background.
.....
The international community has grown increasingly outraged by the Assad regime's attacks against civilians, but has so far refrained from calling on him to step down.

On Monday, the European Union expanded its sanctions against Syria, imposing asset freezes and travel bans against five more military and government officials.

In Washington, President Obama said the latest attacks on demonstrators were "outrageous," while Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the latest attacks highlighted "the brutality and viciousness of the Assad regime." Clinton urged the U.N. Security Council to take action and called on members opposed to reconsider.
.....
The U.N. Security Council was scheduled to have closed-door consultations on Syria late Monday at Germany's request, but U.S. officials said they were not optimistic that the body would act.

Germany, Britain, France and Portugal have tried unsuccessfully since April to get the council to condemn Syrian attacks on unarmed civilians. The U.S supports their efforts, but they have been thwarted by opposition from veto-wielding Russia and China as well as South Africa, Brazil and India, which holds the council presidency this month.

In unusual criticism of the Assad regime, Russia voiced concern Monday over the loss of lives in Hama. The Russian Foreign Ministry urged the Syrian government to stop violence immediately and give up provocations and repression.

Among ordinary Syrians, NPR's Kenyon says, there is some satisfaction in hearing world leaders condemn the Assad regime. "But the diplomatic fundamentals haven't really changed, and Syrians seem to know that."

"Washington and NATO seem to be in no mood for international intervention a la Libya," Kenyon adds. "And serious questions remain about the nature of this opposition. So the path forward remains cloudy." http://www.npr.org/2011/08/01/138885491/scores-killed-as-syrian-forces
-attack-defiant-cities?ft=1&f=1004
it doesn't look, for now anyway, like we're itching to get in.

Doesn't really look like ANYONE wants military action right now, however:
Quote:

yrian opposition activists have appealed to the international community to increase pressure on the regime of President Bashar al-Assad as condemnation mounts over escalating bloodshed.

Omar Habal from the central city of Hama, where four more people were reportedly killed by shellfire on Monday, said protestors wanted foreign governments to withdraw their ambassadors from Damascus and expel Syrian diplomats from their capitals in response to a brutal crackdown in which more than 100 people were killed across Syria on Sunday.

"We want action but not military intervention, we don't need that," Habal told the Guardian by telephone. "We need pressure, strong political pressure."
.....
Syria's opposition is divided, with some groups calling for the overthrow of the Assad regime while others still hope the president will launch genuine reforms.

Foreign governments say that Assad has lost legitimacy but have not explicitly and directly called for his overthrow.

"The international community needs to act quickly to prevent further atrocities in Syria," said Ausama Monajed, a leading exiled dissident. "What are they waiting for? A million Syrians to be killed? It is shameful by any standard to see human beings being shot and killed and not a single condemnation from the U.N. Security Council. What message does that send to brutal dictators?"

The E.U. announced on Monday that it had imposed travel bans and assets freezes on five unnamed Syrian officials, but measures imposed on 30 other senior figures have been shrugged off in Damascus.

Russia said it was "seriously concerned" about the level of casualties but implied government and opposition were equally at fault. "The use of force against civilians and representatives of state structures is unacceptable and must cease," the foreign ministry statement said. Western diplomats said it was unclear whether this meant Moscow was dropping its objections condemning Syria.

China has also been reluctant to back the U.S., Britain and France in demanding punitive gestures, let alone action. Moscow and Beijing are unhappy at the way their support for the U.N. at the start of the Libya crisis was turned into a mandate for a NATO bombing campaign they now see as pursuing regime change.

India, South Africa and Brazil have also opposed a resolution.

William Hague, Britain's Foreign Secretary, said he wanted a resolution to condemn the Syrian violence and admitted there was no possibility of military action of the type seen in Libya. "There is no prospect of a legal, morally sanctioned military intervention," he told the BBC. http://freeinternetpress.com/story/Syrian-Protesters-Ask-For-Global-He
lp-31205.html
whether there's a run-up to military action being subtly pushed or not, looks like nothing's happening for now at least.

I think Syria is a whole different story than Libya; there is no cohesion to the rebellion, for one thing, and for another, obviously there are differnces of opinion as to whether they WANT military help. So I guess we shall just have to wait and see.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:44 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I personally don't see it happening. I'm an itching interventionist; if it were likely to happen people like me would be advocating it.

I think like in Iraq, only a full scale foreign invasion could be counted on to topple the regime. And I don't think anyone has the stomach for that. If this were 10-15 years ago, things could well be different.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:27 PM

DREAMTROVE


Russia will oppose us, as they are undoubtedly doing in Afghanistan. China has begun funding opposition to our N. African excursions. This is World War III guys. This is what it took: Getting other major players into the war on the other side.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yeah, we'll have to wait and see. If the Syrians themselves are divided in what they want in a notable way its hard to justify getting involved, unless there is clear genocide going on or something. We could condemn the behavior of the regime without "getting involved", couldn't we? I mean its easy enough to officially say that it isn't okay without actually sending anyone over there.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:00 AM

DREAMTROVE


A Riona a chara,

The people never really decide, it's about big power players. Russia and Iran send a lot of aid to Syria, to keep it a stable ally. The US wants to pick it up as a puzzle piece in our giant MEFTA block we want to create. Unlike Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan, it has no real strategic value, except that it borders Israel. But I think it's "pokemon: gotta catch 'em all" fever.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Riona, we HAVE condemned it. So have other countries, including now Russia:
Quote:

The violence has brought strong international condemnation. Adding to the international pressure on the Syrian government, Russia, Syria's key European ally, urged Damascus on to stop the use of force and repression against civilian protesters.

The Russian Foreign Ministry, in its strongest criticism yet of the Syrians government's crackdown on demonstrations, expressed "serious concern" over Sunday's violence.

"The use of force against both peaceful civilians and representatives of state structures is unacceptable and should be stopped immediately," the foreign ministry said.

"We are calling on the Syrian government and the opposition to demonstrate the utmost restraint, renounce provocations and repressions and observe the rule of law and respect for international human law."

Political Editor Sergei Strokan told Al Jazeera the statement was "the most strong-worded criticism [of Syria] ever voiced by Russian officials, but it is carefully worded". http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=42265
&wf=rsscol
would never want us in there, but it's a step forward. Sanctions only hurt the poor, as do blockades, so I'm not sure what anyone can do except condemn, which means nothing to those in power, and nobody's up for a full-scale invasion (which unfortunately, I agree, WOULD be the only way, currently).

World War III, eh DT? Over Syria? What will you have to say when it turns out NOT to be WWIII? What will your paranoid conspiracy-bent mind say is WWIII next?




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Predicting WW III is like predicting the end of the world. You will be right eventually.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:55 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Missed this thread.
This would be something to watch. I can't think of anything Israel might want more than for somebody to smack the Syrian militants around.
For the US to get involved would be a real show of power by the American Jewish lobby ( and hey, I'm not PN... I am pro-Israel, and 1/4 Jewish.)

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:37 AM

DREAMTROVE



Anthony,

Prediction? Is that what it is? I think I've been reporting WWIII for years now, and no one is paying attention. Okay, a few. If you have major players running wars across the globe, it's a world war.

Think about it: The US has wars running across the middle east and Africa.

China has wars running in S. America, S.E. Asia and Africa

Russia is opposing us and China across central Asia, and attempting a political/economic take-over of Europe

Germany is having a much more successful but iffy political/economic take-over of Europe

Radical energy extraction techniques in the US include a number of practices such as MTR and CFC injection which have no benefit to the industry, they only serve to kill, and are done on a far greater scale than any war in history. This is allowed because no one realizes this is war, but it is, it is in fact nothing else. It's certainly not an industry. It employs no one and profits no one and kills many, by using weapons, on an unprecedented scale.

The US an China have built massive detention camps. The US and its muslims enemies have adopted torture policies, abandoned the geneva conventions and habeas corpus.

I could go on and on, but the point is: If this isn't a world war, then what is?

The current World War* has already kill more people than a World War.

* Or as Bush called it "Global Conflict" (thesaurus for "World War")

Obama prefers to call it "Overseas Contingency Operations" because he's smarter than Bush so he realizes that he's not the only person in the world with a thesaurus, and figures that no one will go two steps to say "Overseas" is "Global" or the "World" and "Contingency Operations" are "Conflict" or "War."

So, we're still calling it a World War, which it is, and we're still fighting it, and dying in it, and it's still everywhere, it still has concentration camps, genocide, the total abandonment of international laws and treaties (like the one we signed to defend Pakistan against any outside attack, like our own predator drones) so I'm not sure when you're going to call a spade a spade.

Just pointing to the elephant in the room.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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