Teacher Fired because of past Job by AnthonyT

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

If that's not a prime example of discrimination, I don't know what IS! The clause under which they fired him states “They are expected to conduct themselves both in their employment and in the community in a manner that will reflect credit upon themselves and the school system.” Given he's no longer in the industry, he's done nothing expressed in that clause!

Were I him, I'd sue like crazy. He spent money and time to earn his degree and his teaching license. By doing what they did, they've essentially ended that career. To fire him under that clause is, to me, discrimination at its worst, given the clause has nothing to do with his past career. There's a good case there, as I see it, and one I believe should have been pursued so they understand they can't manipultae people that way. Doesn't sound like he plans any action, which is a shame to me, because it shows them they can get away with whatever they want, which may affect others in the future.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:57 AM

Male teachers were banned decades ago.

As for his past job, if he was required to put it on his resume and he didn't, he probably doesn't have a case. OTOH, it had to be an actual job to be required. I doubt most porn stars get a W2 form.

I quit when a brain damaged (literally) male student complained about me to the administrators. His complaint was that I didn't spend enough time with him, which was, of course, more time than I spent with anyone else, but he was at that level where he didn't quite grasp that the class was not taught for his benefit alone. He was aware there were other students, but he thought if he manipulated things a little no one would notice they were there. The kid had done this many times before, and so it wasn't taken seriously, but when I was dealing with nullifying the complaint, I ran into several other male teachers, and I got the wake up call. Most of them were doing it because some girl had made allegations, none of which seemed credible either, but I thought, some scorned crush, or ignored girl, etc., could put you on the sex offenders list. This job is not worth that. This is why there are so few male teachers.

If people are that paranoid about sex, skip the whole situation, go to single sex ed. It's statistically better education anyway (boys do 15% better in single sex schools, girls do 23% better.)

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:29 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Sounds like we'd better start firing every teacher who has children. After all, by having kids, they're just advertising that they like to fuck, right?

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 2:35 PM

One step closer to the light ;)

The children are our future, which is why we must stop them at all costs

I'm Dick Cheney and I approve this message.

Warning, children, as my heart surgeon tells me, are high in cholesterol.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
One step closer to the light ;)

The children are our future, which is why we must stop them at all costs

I'm Dick Cheney and I approve this message.

Warning, children, as my heart surgeon tells me, are high in cholesterol.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Especially these fatties we're raising today, eh?

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I understand why his former profession grosses some out, but that was then and he's not doing that anymore. Now if he was in some kid porn type job then I could see putting the kabash on teaching, but the teaching school should have told him that before so he didn't waste his time getting that degree/certification. But if he wasn't working in kid porn and some time has passed then legally it shouldn't factor into his current aspirations or hiring.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:22 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Quite frankly, I wouldn't even care if he continued doing his old job on weekends for extra cash. It's a legal profession. Legality should be the only standard used to judge his jobs, past and present.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:46 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Male teachers were banned decades ago

Say HUH?

The Childcare, Preschool and Kindergarten, Elementary and Middle School categories are UP from 2009

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Hell, I say make him the Sex Ed teacher, clearly he knows what he's speakin of, right ?

But that'd require common sense in lieu of puritan hypocrisy.

-F

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 2:16 AM

Niki

Why pretend to be surprise at long well documented reality and then fishing for a micro datum to back up your point when your own simple search must have revealed this to be the case. <25% of teachers are male, and the % has been falling steadily ever since these laws came in, mostly because teachers like me quit. When things look bad, you don't get careful, you get out. It's like saying "Oh, there are a few laws against jews, I think I can live with them" you say "Oh, maybe I'll go somewhere where there is no persecution of jews."

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 2:24 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Male teachers were banned decades ago.

THAT is the sentence I find mind boggling. The number may have been going down, but given there are some 7 million male teachers, to say they've been "banned" is extraordinary, in my opinion.

I have to say that if you WERE a teacher, I'm damned glad you got out. The mind reels at what you might have been teaching them.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The number may have been going down, but given there are some 7 million male teachers, to say they've been "banned" is extraordinary, in my opinion.

You may want to check that. I believe that the "Total Employed" column on the chart you posted is ALL teachers, not just male teachers.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 9:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The number may have been going down, but given there are some 7 million male teachers, to say they've been "banned" is extraordinary, in my opinion.

You may want to check that. I believe that the "Total Employed" column on the chart you posted is ALL teachers, not just male teachers.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Yes, Niki posted that there were 1,133,503.

ETA: It seems she calls everything I post outlandish or absurd, and most of it is verified by any simple google check, in this case, I said < 25%, and she countered with statistics showing that it was 15%

I don't think I'll ever understand this logic.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 11:19 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The number may have been going down, but given there are some 7 million male teachers, to say they've been "banned" is extraordinary, in my opinion.

You may want to check that. I believe that the "Total Employed" column on the chart you posted is ALL teachers, not just male teachers.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

And next to it is the percentage which are male. Slightly less than half. Niki's figures add up as far as I can see.

DT. what do you mean 'banned'? Are you being facetious?

I know that here the ratio of women to men is still much greater, and that ironically (or not) the percentage of senior teachers ie principles does not reflect the general gender breakdown.

I also know that they've tried various ways to encourage males into the profession, but that for most men the salary is a turn off.

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The number may have been going down, but given there are some 7 million male teachers, to say they've been "banned" is extraordinary, in my opinion.

You may want to check that. I believe that the "Total Employed" column on the chart you posted is ALL teachers, not just male teachers.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Yes, Niki posted that there were 1,133,503.

ETA: It seems she calls everything I post outlandish or absurd, and most of it is verified by any simple google check, in this case, I said < 25%, and she countered with statistics showing that it was 15%

I don't think I'll ever understand this logic.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

And I'll never understand the logic that lets you claim that 15% or 25% of 7 million = "banned decades ago". If male teachers were TRULY "banned decades ago", then there likely wouldn't be ANY now, would there?

Instead, what I see is almost half of secondary school teachers being male (43%, as of 2010). That seems like a horribly ineffective ban to me.

You're doing it again, DT; you're using your own anecdotal evidence to replace any attempt to provide empirical evidence, and you're lashing out at anyone who tries to point out flaws in your argument. Niki provided hard data; you've provided nothing that refutes this or even calls it into question.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:30 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think this is a case where Dreamtrove used hyperbole, but stated it as fact.

We are supposed to understand that, "Male teachers were banned decades ago" = "Some males decided to avoid the profession after incidents were manufactured that threatened them."

PirateNews also communicates in this fashion at times, where casual British connections make you a Knight of the British Empire, and advocating the right to have an abortion means you are a Nazi Eugenicist who wants to commit Genocide while sacrificing millions of children to Moloch at Bohemian Grove.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:52 PM

I think you're quite right, Anthony.

If the claim had just been "Some males decided to avoid the profession after incidents were manufactured that threatened them," I'd have no issue at all with it, because there is much truth to it.

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 2:15 PM

Quote:
Magon:

DT. what do you mean 'banned'? Are you being facetious?

Huh. Nice place Australia. Maybe I'll move there. There are people there who actually understand things like sarcasm.

God, what is it with people? I mean, like the rest of y'all. If I went outside and said "It was like a thousand degrees out there" you would all start arguing the logistical impossibility of the specific temperature 1000F. Wherever these people live, whatever the culture is there, I don't know it, nor do I want to meet it.

I'm surprised no one said "Hey, that's 16 1/3 %!" or "Hey Niki, it's only 6,937,000!"

As for salary, no, it's not, it's the hearsay. If a random rumor can ruin your whole life, why stay? I took a salary cut when I left teaching to go work for a corporation (from $20/hr to $15, sometime in the '90s)

Mike,

Whatever. I was using Niki's data. Any search on anything will show the very obvious decline of male teachers because of nonsense like the story posted at the top.

Did you notice at all that the data Niki posted is more strongly in favor of my statement then the data I posted? She posted a pic, I copied and pasted text, neither one of us posted the link, because, really, what does it matter? You post the link you end up arguing the credibility of the source, the fact is, any search will return this data, the only difference is what year it was taken from, mine was 2005 IIRC, and it was 25% and the article say "and falling at an alarming rate" which if it's 16% in 2009 is pretty alarming.

This is just filed under idiocy item #521 on the national idiocy agenda after far more important idiotic things.

My irritation is at the greater idiocy on this forum that people will argue absolutely *anything* up to and including that the sky is blue, and they'll do it until the cows come home, go out again, and die of old age.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 6:16 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Magon:

DT. what do you mean 'banned'? Are you being facetious?

Huh. Nice place Australia. Maybe I'll move there. There are people there who actually understand things like sarcasm.

Maybe use emoticons. It's hard to get people's tone when they write and particularly when you don't know them. Additionally, although we all speak English, its English of sorts, I don't just assume people understand me when I probably use a load of local idions and we all have different and sometimes (to me anyway) ways of expressing ourselves.

Quote:

My irritation is at the greater idiocy on this forum that people will argue absolutely *anything* up to and including that the sky is blue, and they'll do it until the cows come home, go out again, and die of old age.

Oh lordy, that's why we come here, isn't it? Why get irritated?

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:35 PM

Magon,

Some things I have to assume people understand or I resign myself to communicating at a level I'm not willing to. If we reduce ourselves to speaking as if we were a planet of morons, we will quickly become one.

If argument over minutae is the reason to come here, perhaps it is time I find somewhere else. I stand by my facetious assertions, because they get the point across. There's a point to PN: If you say that the GOP is a terrorist organization or that the far left is intend on killing the poor, that Obama is building el auschwitzo for mexicans and that he and Bush were gay married under a giant Molech Owl then you're actually hitting a lot closer to the abstract truth of the matter than the overwhelming majority of people discussing politics.

Basically, partisan politics comes down to nothing more than half the population believing in their own messiah, and his church's own self-destructive theocratic quirks while decrying the other half of the population as heretics. This is just idiocy, but you can see it plain as day all over the place, all the time, including here.

So, I'll continue to post that Cheney is an undead lich who carries around what the media calls a "man-sized safe" by which they mean his coffin, so that he can climb back into it and feed the blood of the childern back into him.

Sure, I suspect it's actually a life support system, but I wouldn't be alarmed if he had received organ transplants that cost someone else their life, in america or the third world. To say that such a thing is true would require a long argument with hard to find data and sources for both those proving it was or wasn't so, on a topic I don't really care about; whereas stating the hyperbola, you can convey the image that the former vice president is somewhere between dracula and darth vader, or frankenstein and fester addams, which is basically how I feel.

If you say that Obama is a Kenyan, you're digging yourself an information hole, but if you say he's Bush's gay lover, you're being absurd, but you're really saying "Obama's policies are almost exactly like Bush's, this is obvious to anyone being objectively honest, ergo, I have absolutely no interest in a long protracted discussion on the subject because it would be like arguing that the earth was round, and I'm busy and have no interest in wasting my time, or anyone else's." Which is basically the point of making snarky comments. I'm really astounded that there are people here who could not identify the line "Male teachers have been banned" as a snark, and I am so dubious I suspect some of them are faking it, perhaps in the interests of painting me as extreme, which is fine with me, however inaccurate, because the extreme voice does get listened to. I suspect I'm really the guy in the middle, which is why I get slammed repeatedly by both sides, and that the real fear is that the any centrist position has the danger of pulling people away from the clutches of the far partisan church towards the center of reconcilliation with the heretics, at which point, the heads of the two churches would lose their power over the people.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, September 1, 2011 9:04 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Dream,

Your statements are further evidence that you do not communicate in the same way I do. I am not intelligent enough to catch all your hyperbole or coded meanings. Sometimes yes. Often, no.

I regularly feel that speaking to you is like speaking to an alien, where I don't have sufficient common points of reference. I also get incredibly frustrated with Pirate, and perhaps for the same reasons.

I try very hard to say exactly what I mean, and I will often use extra words to try to clarify my meaning. Even so, I fail. It is all the more difficult for me to discuss things with someone who speaks primarily in metaphor, assumed knowledge, and exaggeration.

One of us might as well be from Neptune. It may well be that I am inferior, and I apologize for so often failing to bridge the gap.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 2, 2011 2:14 AM

Quote:
My irritation is at the greater idiocy on this forum that people will argue absolutely *anything* up to and including that the sky is blue, and they'll do it until the cows come home, go out again, and die of old age.

Then you are irritated at yourself and your own idiocy. Look how many words you've put into this thread. Compare them to how many words each other poster has put into this thread. Do you see a pattern? ;)

By the way, you are indeed wrong on your numbers when you say 15% or even 16%; the actual number is a skoche over 17.2%. (Not THAT is sarcasm done right, in that it not only pokes fun at you, but it's also factually accurate!)

Quit pissing and moaning about people "not getting" your flavor of sarcasm. If you post shit up as fact without ANY indication that you're "kidding", you lose the right to complain when someone takes you seriously. Who was it that complained 'til the cows came home, left again, and died of old age when I suggested that Obama is a better conservative than Reagan was? Oh yeah - that was YOU. You went on for days about it, despite the fact that I was right, because it offended your conservative sensibilities that someone would besmirch Saint Ronaldus Magnus in such a way.

If you want people to lighten up, then lighten the fuck up, Francis. ;)

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Friday, September 2, 2011 2:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I guess posing for Playboy is acceptable, but porn.... not so much.

I had at least one, maybe a couple of teachers, that I was aware of , that had posed nekkid for the magazine before they were teachers.

I think it's probably just good common senses that you don't want a porn actor teaching your kids in the classroom.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 2, 2011 2:27 AM

It's partly me, it's partly the internet, and it's partly RWED. People hear get into a combative stance, so they are often looking to argue with you, so if you say anything, there will be those that argue with it, and those that try to demonizing you for having said it.

You have a unique talent for stating things in a manner so calm that even those who vehemently disagree with what you've posted cannot get angry at you. It's an admirable trait.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, September 2, 2011 3:01 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I think it's probably just good common senses that you don't want a porn actor teaching your kids in the classroom."

Hello,

I think common sense is sometimes used to justify something that is unjustifiable through logical means.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 2, 2011 5:13 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

DT, your assumptions are incorrect as far as people "getting you". You make outlandish statements every day, many of them, so how is one to detect if a statement is sarcasem, or something you really believe. I agree, emoticons would help, because I find some things you say totally out of bounds, while you're absolutely adamant they're correct. So how can we know?

Quote:
It's partly me, it's partly the internet, and it's partly RWED. People hear get into a combative stance, so they are often looking to argue with you, so if you say anything, there will be those that argue with it, and those that try to demonizing you for having said it.

If you're aiming that at me, I don't look to argue with you, I point out the things you write which I find astonishing and beyond reality; I agree with you on some things, and disagree with you on others.

Quote:
If we reduce ourselves to speaking as if we were a planet of morons, we will quickly become one.

Interesting; that could be taken as an insinuation that we're morons and you're far superior, given the previous sentence

Quote:
Some things I have to assume people understand or I resign myself to communicating at a level I'm not willing to.

Apparently you think you're on a different level than the rest of us, or some of us, I can only assume.

Like others here, I attempt to be as clear as I can when I make a point, and add emoticons or something else to show when I intend it to be sarcasm. Given the difficulty of communicating over the internet, I don't think it's a matter of "morons", I think it's a matter of recognizing the lack of facial expression, vocal tone, body language, etc.

I don't think the things you write which I find strange are "minutae"..."World War III", for example. Any poster can question what any other poster means, or disagree, without it meaning one or the other isn't worthy of addressing.

I agree with Anthony:

Quote:
I regularly feel that speaking to you is like speaking to an alien, where I don't have sufficient common points of reference. I also get incredibly frustrated with Pirate, and perhaps for the same reasons.

Don't blame the reader if your style confuses. A number of people have voiced the same feelings in one way or another, so the problem may not be just with US.

I also don't think PN is being sarcastic; I think he believes what he writes, is deliberately controversial in the hopes people will go to the links he posted, by which he gains financially.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, September 2, 2011 7:01 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

If you want to be a teacher and are male, it helps to be married. It probably also helps to have math as your subject area, I have neither of those and have had to switch careers for the moment. No one wants to hire young male music or art teachers, they think we will inappropriately touch the children.

Basically, if you are female, they think you might be too weak to handle discipline and control your classroom. If you are male, they think you might touch the children.

I believe it is harder to become employees as an unmarried male. I go into the schools occasionally with my current behavioral therapy gig and have noticed a difference between how I am viewed and treated as opposed to my female counterparts. A female comes into school and they are happy to have help. I am immediately escorted to the principals office where we play phone tag with my employeer who can't be assed to send the paperwork in on time or promptly answer the phone.

Perhaps it is different in other areas, but in my experience sex discrimination in the public schools is real and common, at least in the elementary schools.

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Friday, September 2, 2011 7:50 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
If you want to be a teacher and are male, it helps to be married. It probably also helps to have math as your subject area, I have neither of those and have had to switch careers for the moment. No one wants to hire young male music or art teachers, they think we will inappropriately touch the children.

And I hate that fucking attitude, you know why ?

Because if young girls never have any experience with a male who's affection and approval do NOT involve sex in some fashion - this warps their development and damn near streamlines them right down the line into abusive and exploitive relationships.

But between moral crusaders without an ounce of freaking sense, and scumbags who directly benefit from creating that vulnerability, all too many of em in politics....

And worse, you can't even call the sumbitches on it without being accused of something, it's asinine.

I've only seen the issue addressed seriously and completely once in fiction, and said story was of course all but silenced by folk who don't seem to realize WHY young girls become sexually aggressive like that, what environmental factors lead to it - foremost among them is not having any examples of male approval/affection/authority which are decidedly non-sexual.

Yet another problem masquerading as it's own solution, that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, September 2, 2011 11:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Annndm I *JUST* had another "conversation" with local school officials regarding a similarly pervasive and destructive attitude, oh irony.

They got this damn attitude regarding young black guys, that they're all gonna wind up dead, in prison or on drugs so why make the effort, to which I pointed out - "cause maybe you got one chance to subvert that, but you CHOOSE to piss it away with your fucking prejudices!"
Worse is how badly that attitude SHOWS, how can we give them hope for themselves when it's apallingly clear we've already written them off completely, when we dismiss, ignore, or even fucking sabotage their efforts while telling ourselves we're only hastening the inevitable, when we give them NO alternatives and then try to JUSTIFY that bullshit when they travel down the only path we've left em, by pointing it out and saying "see, it would have been wasted anyway!" - Be DAMNED to their fucking assumptions!

And what was his mother THINKING, who the hell names a male child in a tough neighborhood "Renee" anyways, not like the woman ever paid a mind to him whatever beyond that anyways.

And now I gotta go find him, see if I can't explain through his anger the value of that stupid piece of paper, and maybe find some alternate route of obtaining it for the poor boy, all cause he had the *gasp* audacity to take back his own property by force from someone of a lighter skin shade, despite school officials witnessing the original theft and doing jack shit about it.

*hissssss*

He's certainly smart enough to bag the GED test up, it's convincing him to DO it - convincing him that our society has some value, ANY value, to HIM when all it's done is shit on him at every opportunity.

While my experiences may be different in many ways, Happy - believe me, I feel ya.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, September 2, 2011 3:24 PM