Federal Employees Resist Increased Pension Contribution by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Federal Employees Resist Increased Pension Contribution

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 04:06
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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 3:55 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/20/news/economy/obama_federal_workers_ret
irement/index.htm?cnn=yes

Hello,

It seems that part of the new plan asks Federal Employees to pay a bit more towards their pensions. This has made many Federal Employees upset.

Some say the increase will make it harder to acquire and retain the most skilled employees.

I'm not sure that this is a serious concern in the current economy. Most people are quite happy to have jobs at the moment, and there are a lot of skilled people who are unemployed.

Some say that after enduring two years without a pay raise, this move adds insult to injury.

I'm not sure that's valid, either, during a period when people with fewer benefits are enduring similar periods without pay increases.

However, it can't be denied that at the end of the day, Federal employees will be taking home less money than they did before. I don't think most people would be thrilled at this prospect.

I lost my own pension plan a couple of years ago, during hard economic times, so I find it difficult to sympathize with the concerns of Federal workers. But were I a Federal worker, I'd probably feel differently.

What do you think?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"On average, total compensation is 6.8 percent lower for state employees and 7.4 percent lower for local employees than for comparable private sector employees."

Out of Balance? Comparing Public and Private Sector Compensation Over 20 Years
Analysis May Shed Light on Government Hiring Difficulties, Despite Economic Conditions

This new report, commissioned by the Center and the National Institute on Retirement Security (NIRS), provides an original analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Key findings include:

Jobs in the public sector typically require more education than private sector positions. State and local employees are twice as likely to hold a college degree or higher as compared to private sector employees. Only 23 percent of private sector employees have completed college, as compared to about 48 percent in the public sector.

Wages and salaries of state and local employees are lower than those for private sector employees with comparable earnings determinants, such as education and work experience. State workers typically earn 11 percent less and local workers 12 percent less.

During the last 15 years, the pay gap has grown: earnings for state and local workers have generally declined relative to comparable private sector employees.

The pattern of declining relative earnings remains true in most of the large states examined in the study, although there does exist some state level variation.

Benefits make up a slightly larger share of compensation for the state and local sector. But even after accounting for the value of retirement, healthcare, and other benefits, state and local employees earn less than private sector counterparts. On average, total compensation is 6.8 percent lower for state employees and 7.4 percent lower for local employees than for comparable private sector employees.

Apples-to-apples comparison

“The picture is clear. In an apples-to-apples comparison, state and local government employees receive less compensation than their private sector counterparts,” said Keith A. Bender, report co-author and associate professor, Department of Economics at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. “These public sector employees earn less than they would earn if they took their skills to the private sector.”

Government jobs require education and skills

“Jobs in state and local governments consist disproportionately of occupations that demand more education and skills," added report co-author John S. Heywood, distinguished professor, Department of Economics at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. "Indeed, accounting for these differences is critical in understanding compensation patterns.”

Some jobs are hard to fill - pay may be a factor

The study sheds light on a recent Center survey of government hiring managers. Elizabeth K. Kellar, president and chief executive officer of the Center reported, “Hiring managers told us that despite the economy, they find it difficult to fill vacancies for highly-skilled positions such as engineering, environmental sciences, information technology and healthcare professionals. The compensation gap may have something to do with this.”

Even with benefits, government jobs pay less

Beth Almeida, NIRS executive director said, “For a long time, there has been a compensation trade-off in public sector jobs - better benefits come with lower pay as compared with private sector jobs. This study tells us that is still true today.” She added, “What’s striking is that on a total compensation basis – looking at pay and benefits – employees of state and local government still earn less than their private sector counterparts."

Report can be downloaded here: http://www.nirsonline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39
5&Itemid=48

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:31 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This report you have quoted is surprising to me. I wonder then if the vast number of unemployed are the unskilled workers, since those with credentials seem to still be in hot demand according to the report findings.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

In my field the unemployment rate is very low.

random google searches

Pharmacy Technicians and Aides can consider themselves quite lucky, as only 2.1% are currently unemployed.

The latest ACS Comprehensive Salary and Economic Status Survey finds strong pay increases for chemists at all degree levels (Table 1), accompanied by the lowest unemployment rates in a decade (see “The Good Employment News” further down the page).

At a time when more than 10 percent of the country's population is unemployed, it may seem bizarre that the healthcare industry is experiencing a shortage of viable nursing professionals.

Given the job environment today, Chemical Engineers can consider themselves quite lucky, as only 2.8% are currently unemployed.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Well, that seems to reinforce the idea that those with special skills and certifications are doing better than the rest of us.

I suppose that only makes sense. But I never saw a breakdown of the unemployed by education/skill level, so it never occurred to me.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I wouldn't have realized it myself except a recent graduate who came through my workplace as a temp (lasted all of 3 weeks before she got a ft job - sheesh - there goes all that training) mentioned it to me.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Oh, I also wanted to address this:

"I lost my own pension plan a couple of years ago, during hard economic times ..."

AFAIK you still have your quarters vested in SS. Nearly all public employees do not get SS - their pension is literally all they have for retirement.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:20 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"AFAIK you still have your quarters vested in SS. Nearly all public employees do not get SS - their pension is literally all they have for retirement."

Hello,

Well, I pay considerably towards that particular retirement plan, and do not have any reasonable expectation of recovering that investment.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"and do not have any reasonable expectation of recovering that investment"

Well, frankly, that's a myth that has already been addressed here many times.

-- OASI (Old Age and Survivors Insurance) is fully funded through 2039, according to the Congressional Budget Office (2037 according to the Social Security Trustees) --

-- “Social Security is fully funded through 2037 and at 78% thereafter, with no changes. The Social Security surplus is invested in US Treasury bonds (which conservative commentators like to call "IOUs"). There are some modest tweaks to the system which would render it solvent indefinitely with no impact to benefits. --

-- To keep Social Security strong for another 75 years, Sanders’ legislation would apply the same payroll tax already paid by more than nine out of 10 Americans to those with incomes over $250,000 a year. [...] Under Sanders’ legislation, Social Security benefits would be untouched. The system would be fully funded by making the wealthiest Americans pay the same payroll tax already assessed on those with incomes up to $106,800 a year. --

The biggest threat to Social Security are the people who want to kill it.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I don't think the Social Security program will survive the current economic decline intact. Especially not with people calling my retirement program an entitlement, saying the word with a sneer, and asking why I deserve it.

I'm just not optimistic about it.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Well, that's a political stance taken by extremists, not an economic problem faced by the SS admin. And even you bought into the hype despite the many, many posts on the matter refuting it. Maybe you need to join with the people who think a program people have payed into all of their lives should continue, and call your fellow conservatives on their bullshit.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I don't think the Social Security program will survive the current economic decline intact. Especially not with people calling my retirement program an entitlement, saying the word with a sneer, and asking why I deserve it.

I'm just not optimistic about it.

Yes, but they are doing that because they already borrowed against that money - YOUR money, and mine - and they don't like the returns they got on their investment (lots of dead people and zero WMD and no cheap oil), and now they don't want to pay the money back.

That's why they're whining and trying to do away with Social Security - because they want to keep the money they stole from it and gave to their rich friends.

It's really no different from what Wall Street did, and they only get away with it if we let them.

This really is the crux of it, what's at the heart of the "crisis" in Social Security, and why the GOP keeps screaming that it can't go on like this - because they in essence took out a BIG Adjustable Rate Mortgage on the country's future, then squandered the money on idiotic overseas adventures, and now they can't make their payments, so they start screaming about "personal responsibility" while waving their hands, hoping nobody will notice that they are personally responsible for the vast majority of the mess that we're now in.

And when you call them on it, they get sheepish and say, "This is no time to place blame" or "It's not time to point fingers". That is because they know full well where those fingers should be pointed and on whose doorstep that blame should be rightfully placed.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"call your fellow conservatives on their bullshit."

Hello,

I wasn't aware that I had fellow conservatives. Who are they?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"I wasn't aware that I had fellow conservatives."

Though there not be much fellowship, I assumed you are a conservative. If you are not, then I humbly apologize.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:20 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I haven't found a group that identifies with me yet, nor a group I fully identify with.

If you find the pigeonhole that describes all my beliefs, let me know.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Then consider yourself apologized to!

Please accept my apologies.

But my suggestion still holds - rather than repeat the myths, or remain silent when you hear them, perhaps you should speak up.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:26 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Of course. I know that categorization is not merely second-nature, but also a survival trait.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:35 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"But my suggestion still holds - rather than repeat the myths, or remain silent when you hear them, perhaps you should speak up."

Hello,

I don't know enough about the topic to bust any myths. But I have always maintained that if anyone wants to talk about shutting down Social Security they better also talk about giving me every dime of my money back.

But I don't have much faith that they will, and it makes me upset.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Personally I think anyone who isn't a CEO oughta fight tooth and claw to keep EVERYTHING, no matter what anyone elses (often deliberately fostered and falsely so to set us against each other instead of the real criminals) perception of it is, here's why, the awful bloody truth of it...

Did you grocery bill go down ?
Did your rent/property taxes/mortgage payment go down ?
Did your car insurance go down ?
Did your utility bills go down ?

No ?
So why the everlivin HELL should you retreat ONE GODDAMN INCH, when it comes to how much value you obtain for your labor ?

No... not just no, but HELL no.
Not one motherfucking inch, anywhere - not till those assholes who's fortunes are made on the backs of these people crack open THEIR fist, period.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... I have always maintained that if anyone wants to talk about shutting down Social Security they better also talk about giving me every dime of my money back."

That would be a reasonable thing to mention when it comes up in conversation.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:06 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"That would be a reasonable thing to mention when it comes up in conversation."

Hello,

When I say "I have always maintained" I was not being figurative. It is something I have always maintained. You can probably find me maintaining such a stance in past discussions about Social Security here.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

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