The Rich and the GOP by NewOldBrownCoat

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Extremely well said and what I feel, too. What has particularly fascinated me for the past twenty-or-so years is how

Quote:
Republicans have excelled at propaganda, twisting words beyond recognition in pursuit of political ends. They've been remarkably successful at selling bad ideas in bright packaging, peddling snake oil in shiny foil paper.

They're really SO good at it, I'm impressed more and more each year. They say and do things exactly opposite to common sense, yet people buy it, laud it, and give them more and more power to DO IT. It's truly genius.

Unfortunately, it's a genius which harms (sometimes disasterously) those who believe it. They don't, of course, it's a tool for them and nothing more. But it gives them power to continue the REAL class warfare which facts and figures show has been going on for a long time now.

I gotta give them credit. That doesn't mean I don't abhor the result, because I do.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, September 26, 2011 12:26 PM

And... the European market is crashing. We'll go down too.
Be prepared.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/26/trader-to-bbc-goldman-sachs-g
oldman-sachs-rules-the-world_n_981658.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009&ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, September 26, 2011 2:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Stock market trader Alessio Rastani

Quote:
"For most traders we don't really care about having a fixed economy, having a fixed situation, our job is to make money from it," he said. "Personally, I've been dreaming of this moment for three years. I go to bed every night and I dream of another recession."

The ultimate endpoint of capitalism: making money on money, without the inconvenience of creating jobs or producing a product.

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Monday, September 26, 2011 2:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
making money on money, without the inconvenience of creating jobs or producing a product.

It's good to be a vulture!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, September 26, 2011 5:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Heya Chris, welcome back.

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Monday, September 26, 2011 11:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's good to be a vulture!

Hell, I've suggested changing the national bird to one, seeing as it's far more appropriate.

Of course, in our case it's more like Beaky Buzzard since we're not even competent villains!

-F

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:34 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Uhhh, Frem, I think one of the founding fathers (I forget who) was in favor of the turkey as national bird, in part because our Bald Eagle behaves like a vulture most of the time! They're scavengers for the most part and will eat about anything, which he didn't find commendable as a national bird.

p.s. I meant to welcome you back, too, when I noticed you'd returned, Chris...it's good to have some of the "old" voices return, especially as they've all been (for me) the "good old" voices! ;o)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:09 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Still kind'a puzzled about why a tax proposal that would start increasing taxes(Sorry, make that Federal Individual Income Taxes. Wouldn't want to confuse anyone.) on individuals with $200,000 taxable income, and families with $250,000, has the liberals talking about nothing but billionaires.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:40 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think quite a few of us have been vocal about the fact that we think raising taxes on those with incomes that low is wrong; it's the top-tier wealthy most of us discuss. I have no desire to raise taxes on people making less than at least half a million a year, and many have suggested only those making a million. So I assume you're not talking about US? You're certainly not talking about ME.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Chris...it's good to have some of the "old" voices return

Long time no wave, Niki!

I've just been busy hiding all my billions so the nasty liberuls can't get any of it to feed their drug habits & protect evil whales...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:06 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Quote:
Republicans have excelled at propaganda, twisting words beyond recognition in pursuit of political ends. They've been remarkably successful at selling bad ideas in bright packaging, peddling snake oil in shiny foil paper.
They're really SO good at it, I'm impressed more and more each year. They say and do things exactly opposite to common sense, yet people buy it, laud it, and give them more and more power to DO IT. It's truly genius.

This is exactly what the Left is guilty of, and it's not even funny. If I weren't an atheist, the phrase - " The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist " would only be matched by the deceptiveness of the Left, in how they project their own crimes onto everyone else BUT themselves.

Trying to convince us that man made climate change is real, or that the "rich" don't pay their fair share... the list on which the Left is wrong continues to grow by the minute.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:43 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahhh, yes, Chris; so lovely to have your sense of sarcasm back...we so need to be able to laugh at ourselves! Sigh, it's so refreshing to have you (and a few others who have returned) here to give us a sense of perspective. Unlike some others, who will remain nameless
(

Rappy)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:46 AM

America loves a winner!

But whales ARE evil... everyone knows that.

Especially the white ones.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trying to convince us that man made climate change is real, or that the "rich" don't pay their fair share...

Climate change is man-ASSISTED.
And the rich DO NOT pay their fair share. They haven't been since, like, the 50's. But I'll not bore you with facts & statistics on this. Born-again Neo-Conservatives cannot digest these things. Rich peeps are rich BECAUSE of the countries they live in- to not give back is to simply be doing the vampire thing, and you know what that leads to (hint: not hugs & puppies).

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:56 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I think quite a few of us have been vocal about the fact that we think raising taxes on those with incomes that low is wrong; it's the top-tier wealthy most of us discuss.

While I get your underlying point.... I'd personally LOVE to make as low a wage as $200 grand. Heck, I'd even take half!

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:55 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Uhhh, Frem, I think one of the founding fathers (I forget who) was in favor of the turkey as national bird, in part because our Bald Eagle behaves like a vulture most of the time! They're scavengers for the most part and will eat about anything, which he didn't find commendable as a national bird.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

Benjy Franklin. There's a very funny scene in the musical 1776 based on the discussion between him, Thomas Jefferson, and Sam Adams.

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Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:31 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yes, NOBC has it correct, that was Franklin...

And yes, the Randroids *are* vampires, and not the sparkly angsty Twilight kind, mores the pity.

I am however, suprised that Cynthia Tucker would say such things, given her sucking up to the previous administration - she was on the list of those suspected to have taken money from them in order to produce favorable editorials, and having read many of them (she was at one time a columnist for our local anti-union, rightwingnut rags pretending to be newspapers) I'd have to say she prolly did, although we never did manage to prove it.

I find the sudden change of heart here maybe a little less credible cause of that, you see.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, September 30, 2011 2:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trying to convince us that man made climate change is real, or that the "rich" don't pay their fair share...
Climate change is man-ASSISTED.
And the rich DO NOT pay their fair share. They haven't been since, like, the 50's. But I'll not bore you with facts & statistics on this. Born-again Neo-Conservatives cannot digest these things. Rich peeps are rich BECAUSE of the countries they live in- to not give back is to simply be doing the vampire thing, and you know what that leads to (hint: not hugs & puppies).

The laughing Chrisisall

Indeed. Rappy prattles on and on about things how things were never intended to be "fair", and then whines about how unfair things are for the rich.

The REAL reason the rich should pay more? Because they have so much more to lose. Think about it - a Communist revolution and takeover wouldn't really have that great an impact on the average Joe in this country. They'd still be slaving to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table (or "on their family", as one President said), and they'd maybe have a better chance of getting to see a doctor if they got sick, and they'd likely have a better chance of actually having Social Security when they reached retirement age (since the vultures on Wall Street wouldn't have been allowed to privatize it and pick it clean).

For about 50% of the American people, such a revolution - Communist or Socialist - would likely have a net result of increasing their standard of living.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, September 30, 2011 2:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Climate change is man-ASSISTED.

Yeah, about as much as a fart in a hurricane.

Quote:

And the rich DO NOT pay their fair share. They haven't been since, like, the 50's. But I'll not bore you with facts & statistics on this. Born-again Neo-Conservatives cannot digest these things. Rich peeps are rich BECAUSE of the countries they live in- to not give back is to simply be doing the vampire thing, and you know what that leads to (hint: not hugs & puppies).

The rich pay their fair share, it's just the govt spends to much of ALL of our money. That's why we're in this mess in the first place.

But this class warfare game that Obama and the Left are playing, that's what'll leadn to not hugs and puppies.

The 'rich' in this country are rich mainly because they worked for it, or figured out a way to make more $ by doing something very simple, yet very effective. In other words, they got off their asses and DID something.

And what's this nonsense about being rich because you're not giving back ? Look around, and see how many museums, universities and programs are DONATED, not by unions, but by the "rich" .

They give in all sorts of ways, like making jobs for others so they can raise families and live good lives themselves. This bit about 'giving back' is a crock. We're not given all that much, we EARN our way in life. Rich, poor, everyone. There is no big daddy, with a huge safe full of money, selectively handing out packets of cash, ala Santa Clause, or The Great Pumpkin.

And trust me, there's nothing 'born again' or neo-con about me.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 30, 2011 2:43 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

For about 50% of the American people, such a revolution - Communist or Socialist - would likely have a net result of increasing their standard of living.

Just another prime example of you not actually meaning what you post, because if you did, it only shows everyone what a complete idiot you are.

Communist revolutions have never raised the standard of living for anyone. Either you're just posting shit for the hell of it, to get a reaction, or you're as much an idiot as Michael Moore or Rosie O'Donnell.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 30, 2011 3:49 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Communist revolutions have never raised the standard of living for anyone."

Hello,

This is not true. There is a segment of the population at the very bottom. They are homeless and starving and barely hanging on by their fingernails. Communist revolutions help them. (Economically, anyhow.) They are raised to a minimum standard of housing and services that will keep them alive.

And everyone else tends to be lowered to that minimum standard as well. With the exception of those who apportion resources, who seem to find a lot more for themselves.

When I think about it now, it occurs to me that Communist revolutions have had a similar impact to Free Trade agreements and the lifting of effective government regulations. Equalizing labor, quality of life, and the quality of goods at the lowest common denominator. While a few benefit and become hugely wealthy.

It's interesting how two tacks can get you to the same place.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Friday, September 30, 2011 4:15 AM

DMAANLILEILTT

I think there be a few people in Nicaragua who'd argue that.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Friday, September 30, 2011 5:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
this class warfare game that Obama and the Left are playing

Oh hey, you heard a cool new inflammatory bs wording by Rush, eh? Now you get to repeat it as if it actually means something! Excellent!!
'Cause, I mean, there was never 'class warfare' coming from the Right, right? Hey, next time I'm 'asked' to pay my taxes instead of trying to sleaze my way out of it, I'll scream "Class Warfare!!!"

Tell me something AU, how is it that there were any rich peeps in the fifties, when corporate profits were so heavily & unfairly taxed?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 30, 2011 7:09 AM

STORYMARK

Those who decry Class Warfare tend to be those that are winning it (or, as in this case, their loyal serfs).

Me, I'd say there's been a class cold war going for decades, and the middle class lost.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, September 30, 2011 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Me, I'd say there's been a class cold war going for decades, and the middle class lost.

I know so many guys that are scraping by, have a kid or two, who bought a nice house a few years ago, and can *barely* pay for it who scream about smaller government, who support every war, and who hate the 'welfare Lefties.' These guys are a paycheck away from foreclosure. A major illness or employment downsize where they work, and they're done.
BUT, the DREAM of upward mobility persists. The *belief* that SOMEDAY they too can be rich, if they just keep their nose to the grindstone, is too powerful to allow them to face realities.

Capitalism is like a strong right arm. But if that's all that is used, the rest of he body weakens.
Capitalism is currently behaving like a drunk at a bar who does not know when to stop.
Making enough money to be rich should be enough, but it seems more like a game in which not only should 'you' win, all others must lose.

Put that in yer pipe & smoke it, AU!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 30, 2011 7:56 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
this class warfare game that Obama and the Left are playing
Oh hey, you heard a cool new inflammatory bs wording by Rush, eh? Now you get to repeat it as if it actually means something! Excellent!!
'Cause, I mean, there was never 'class warfare' coming from the Right, right? Hey, next time I'm 'asked' to pay my taxes instead of trying to sleaze my way out of it, I'll scream "Class Warfare!!!"

Tell me something AU, how is it that there were any rich peeps in the fifties, when corporate profits were so heavily & unfairly taxed?

The laughing Chrisisall

He also apparently just heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, probably when someone pointed out to him that tea-baggers are probably THE prime example of incompetent people grossly overestimating their level of competence.

From the Wiki:

Quote:
Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.

The phrase the leaps to mind is "You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!"

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, September 30, 2011 10:20 AM