REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Coyotes in So. Ca.

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, October 10, 2011 03:44
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Thursday, October 6, 2011 7:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I didn't know it until I caught a documentaroy, but coyotes originated in a small area, and have now spread to virtually all of North America. Most of us know they are one of the most prolific and effective "urban shadows", but in some places it's getting downright scary:
Quote:

Melissa Rowley left her children playing in the front yard for only a moment to step into her house.

When she came back a coyote was dragging her daughter away.

It was the third time in five days a coyote had posed a threat to a small child in Southern California, San Bernardino Sheriff's spokeswoman Arden Wiltshire said.

The coyote grabbed the 2-year-old by the head and tried to drag her towards the street in the mountain community of Lake Arrowhead on Tuesday.

When Rowley came out of the house and ran toward her daughter, the animal released the girl and ran away.

Rowley took her daughter to a hospital where the toddler was treated for several puncture wounds to the head and neck area, and a laceration on her mouth.
.....
"In the past they've been frightened of humans and if you shooed them, they'd go away, but they're not doing that," Edwards said. "I feel responsible, because I didn't call Animal Control and I should have. We all should have because he was like, stalking us."

On Friday, a nanny pulled another 2-year-old girl from the jaws of a coyote at Alterra Park in Chino Hills, a San Bernardino County community about 30 miles east of Los Angeles. The girl suffered puncture wounds to her buttocks and was treated at a hospital.

A coyote came after another toddler in the same park Sunday. The child's father kicked and chased the coyote away.
.....
The animal that attacked the baby in the sandbox was described as limping on its left leg, and one of the animals trapped had a broken left leg, he said.

Morse said biologists can't explain the rash of coyote incidents.

The animals are lured into neighborhoods by dog or cat food left outdoors, food that people leave out for wild animals and scraps in garbage cans, he said.

"People get used to seeing them, but this is a wild animal and you do not want a wild animal in your backyard," Morse said.

"When coyotes get habitualized to being around people and lose that fear of humans, that's when it's very tenuous." http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4811654&page=1 one I heard about was that one in Chino Hills, but apparently it's even bigger than that! My bet? Given one was limping and another had a broken leg, they're looking for easy targets. But what do I know?
Quote:

Coyotes normally avoid contact with humans and hunt rabbits and rodents. But scientists said some that live near suburban developments are becoming bolder, raiding garbage or even attacking pets and humans.

An increase in coyote attacks on humans in the past decade is most evident in Southern California, where bedroom communities have quickly pressed into wilderness, allowing the canine scavengers to roam backyards for food.
.....
"We're not sure what pushes them over the edge," said Robert Timm, a wildlife specialist with the University of California system. "There may be no single explanation for it."

One possibility is that coyotes give birth to pups this time of year and may need more food for themselves and their babies. Toddlers fall into the size of prey that coyotes would normally attack.
.....
Another theory is that homeowners are unintentionally luring the wild animals by leaving pet food bowls outside or not securing garbage bins.

[It's also possible the coyotes are interbreeding with domestic dogs to produce coydogs, hybrids that according to Western lore have both the dog's lack of fear of humans and the coyote's aggressiveness.]

Game wardens don't normally hunt coyotes unless they pose a threat to people. After attacks, they trap and then shoot coyotes. They also carry shotguns or small-caliber rifles, but won't fire on the animals unless they get a clear shot.

Authorities dissuade people from hunting renegade coyotes themselves and suggest that they instead make noise or throw objects to scare them from neighborhoods
.....
"They're so brazen right now," she said. "They just stand there and look at you."
.....
Since last year, there have been seven coyote attacks in the Chino Hills area, including four in which children were bitten. State wildlife officials have killed 23 coyotes to protect the public.

Timm, the University of California scientist, said coyotes behave in predictable ways when they turn aggressive such as snatching pets during the daytime or chasing joggers and bicyclists.

If people recognize these signs, they may be able to thwart an attack, he said.

Timm has created a Web site, CoyoteBytes.org, where residents in Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego counties can report coyote bites or sightings. Scientists use the information to study the scope of the problem.

"Coyotes are opportunistic," Timm said. "They go where the food is." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354988,00.html in all, I'm glad I don't live in Chino Hills!!

San Diego:



They're opportunistic, not that brave...as I've written before, Tashi met a couple up on the Divide, they all sniffed each other and went on about their business. Wish I had my camera with when it happened. But alone, they're no threat to anything close to their own size:



By the way, note that I even post Fox News, when they report something well.

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Thursday, October 6, 2011 7:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The doumentary I saw showed how they're accustomed to traffic and even know when to cross a street at stop lights.

They're much more filled out and their coats better than the ones we see up in the Sierras...and SO much bolder! Here's an idiot doing exactly what you shouldn't: feeding one! Note how close the video taper got, and how cautious yet bold the coyote is!



It's eerie to me how much they look like and move like my own two huskies; sure can see the genes, just like I can in wolves!

Given their litter size is up to 19 and how adept they are at urban environments, it's no surprise they're not only surviving, but thriving!

This is the more frequent result of how they deal with dogs their own size and why Tash had no problem with them:




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 6, 2011 8:12 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

It's also possible the coyotes are interbreeding with domestic dogs to produce coydogs, hybrids that according to Western lore have both the dog's lack of fear of humans and the coyote's aggressiveness.


I prefer dog-yote (or maybe coy-doggie).

But, as an aside:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid

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Thursday, October 6, 2011 8:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Dog-yote" would work for me. "Coy-dog" just sounds wrong; they're anything BUT "coy"!

On the subject of pronunciation fumbles, it's actually "coy-yo-tay", not the Americanized "ky-yo-tee" or "kyote", and the emphasis is on the "yo", whereas we've put it on the "ky". More irrelevant facts you never needed to know. I've considered pronouncing it properly, but it just seems self-agrandizing. Wish I could, tho'.

Coy-dogs and wolf hybrids are actually quite dangerous in that they can be very unpredictable. I hate that so many own (or want to own) them. The wild is still in there, and having them look like and treated like domesticated dogs puts people in danger. And dogs, too--I join a group of local "urban mushers" with my sulky; one of them has a part-wolf husky. Big, beautiful, but she took a disliking to my Kochak and went after her (causing me an e.r. visit from breaking them up the first time we crossed paths). She's never forgotten, and does her best to get to Kochak every time they meet; she'd kill her if she could, I have no doubt whatseover.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
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Thursday, October 6, 2011 8:59 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Coy-dog" just sounds wrong; they're anything BUT "coy"!


Yeah, that was the problem I had with it. Dog-yote is best. Coyo-doggie?

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Thursday, October 6, 2011 12:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ours mostly stays down by the waterline and out of our hair, feeding on the smaller critters and stabilizing their population - the maintanence dept was convinced to leave it be when I pointed out it eats those groundhogs, which they kinda hate, lol.

Mostly our wildlife stays in balance, particularly cause I encourage the folk who live and work here not to mess with it, something taken to heart cause of my aloofness and apparent connection with them giving rise to rumors I make no effort to dispel.

It *IS* however, true that I can tell if someone else is out there in the night, and to some degree where, just by watching/listening to the critters, warning cries, sudden silences, and movement away from potential threats, all give me a bearing and vector for investigation - as to the exact depth of how far that communication goes, well, let em think what they will.

Blackburn the cat (a stray abandoned by someone who moved out, and adversarial with the local raccoons) was chasing a young possum around building two last night like a live action pop-goes-the-weasel, he stopped to give me a dirty look and said possum went up a tree - he was just screwing with it anyway cause a cat is much, much faster than a possum.

Nelson is still at large, and was hanging around behind building thirteen, him and Squig, a VERY dimwitted rookie racoon, have been acting in concert to raid the dumpsters, and neither one of them is very stealthy so they make a enough racket on the back stretch of this place to annoy me since it sometimes sounds like a human thrashing through back there - and it worries me that if they go too far back they'll run into said coyote, or the skunk behind building sixteen, neither of which will have much mercy on the damn fools - I also discovered WHY Nelson hasn't been so keen on returning, cause he's gettin it with Cracker, an outdoor cat owned by the folks a couple houses east of here, so it's all for the nookie, goin on there.

About the only local critter which *would* concern me, is the occasional "feral pig", HA!, such a nice euphamism for WILD FUCKIN BOAR...
I see one of those bastards imma find the hell out if I can still climb a TREE!
Thankfully they're rare, and mostly south of here, but without my short-handled boar spear, I am absolutely NOT crossing up with one of those, oh hellll no - even with it my first inclination is to go the hell AWAY, seriously, if you've ever seen one of those monsters in action you'd understand.

Oh, and a word about skunks - they KNOW almost nothing in nature will screw with em, and those in an urban area quickly learn this is true of humans as well - I was at a friends company picnic, held in a park, a while back, and one of them hops right up on the table and starts chowing down on an unattended plate.
Everyone at the table does this blink-doubletake, looks at each other... gets up and moves a couple tables down - really, would YOU wanna make an issue of it with yon polecat ?
So yeah, ours are bold little bastards, and just so you know, they CAN open things like basement windows provided they are not locked or stuck.

I still wish we'd put up a bat house to bring them back and keep down the mosquito population, cause ours are some seriously huge merciless monsters, but the property owner is concerned about both rabies potential (mostly spread by bats, around here) and residents wigging out about it.

Anyhows, it's entirely possible for man to co-exist with nature, provided one can suppress the impulsive need to control everydamnthing, cause to work with nature requires kind of going with the flow, and modern humans ain't real good at that, alas.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, October 7, 2011 10:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I got no use for the fucking non-native boar, either. THEM we got plenty of...all up on the mountain, tho' I hear people near the boundaries get their gardens dug up. They're a serious problem here; they send out hunting parties yearly but they reproduce so damned well that the numbers never seem to go down.

We met up with one such hunting party long ago on the north face, my favorite part of the Mountain (it's inaccessible unless you feel like hiking some, and people tend to stay nearer places they can park). As usual, our dogs were off leash. They were nice enough not to give us a ticket, but warned us they'd just lost a dog to one of the boar, so even tho' it's legally required, having them on leash was a way to protect them. We used to see freshly-overturned ground a lot on the north face, probably in part BECAUSE it's less frequented.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, October 7, 2011 11:25 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In my area, cats and small dogs are called 'coyote food', even if you keep the dogs behind a fence. From time to time after a kill the local coyote pack gathers in a manic howling group on the hill directly across the street. A typical suburb here may LOOK like a staid suburban snooze fest, but no one should mistake them as such. You'll find coyotes, rattlesnakes, black widow spiders, bobcats, red-tailed hawks - even bears - routinely cruising on through, if not settling in, and going about their business.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Friday, October 7, 2011 4:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
They're a serious problem here; they send out hunting parties yearly but they reproduce so damned well that the numbers never seem to go down.


Well, while I am not any good with a rifle due to depth perception issues, I did used to track and spot game for the shooters - which is why I had that damn spear to begin with, but age and injury has crept up upon me, not to mention I will not spot for folks who's weapons handling and discipline I feel is inadequate, which is most folk these days, it seems.

If there ever is one nosing around here, I'll prolly go get Forquet (that ridiculous Saiga-12), clear it with the property owner, and wind up with a whole lot of free bacon - cause if thirty rounds of cube shot doesn't put em away, you need an exorcist, not a firearm!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, October 8, 2011 5:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't remember if you told us where you live, Kiki, but that's a lot like what I was hearing about So. Ca. It was amazing to watch videos of coyotes walking calmly down the middle of a suburban street, standing at corners checking for traffic before crossing, etc.!

And yes, that's what they were talking about. In the documentary I watched, a couple were describing the coyote who killed one of their dogs and badly injured the other. They had an eight-foot solid wall around the property, and behind that was a six-foot chain-link fence, about three feet away from the wall. The coyote went over both like they were nothing, snagged the pet and jumped back. The couple were selling their home and moving. They also said once the coyotes had struck in one yard, they'd scope out that yard and consider it their "hunting ground", keep coming back in other words!

What you wrote reminded me of our home in San Mateo when I was growing up. We were the first housing tract up in the hills and homes were still being built when we moved in. Rattlesnakes abounded, among other things, and my mom was well known in the neighborhood as a rattler killer. The workmen would come to her when they found one and she'd go over and kill it. We have invaded so many places which have displaced the native population, there's no question but that we'll come up against them. Coyotes are different, in that THEY'VE invaded; in many cases they weren't there originally, but their abilit to propagate made for ever-expanding territory.

We've got bobcats and lots of raptors, but again, they have plenty of room and the balance on the Mountain is pretty good (especially since the coyotes and cougar(s) moved in), so we have no problem with them. But BEARS?!?! Where DO you live??


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, October 8, 2011 6:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


We've got them in my area. They're coming closer and closer into town now, looking for food and water. We've seen a few at the outskirts of the dog park a few blocks away, but they haven't presented any threat.

I keep my cats inside, though, just in case.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, October 9, 2011 5:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


You're going to laugh, Mike, but I never knew Texas even HAD bears! And yes, I'd keep my pets inside unless I could be there to watch them to let them out to the back yard, too, if I lived in any of the places coyotes are active...much less BEARS (tho' I don't imagine they'd be jumping any 8-foot fences any time soon...)


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Sunday, October 9, 2011 6:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Only bears I know of in Texas are in far west Texas, out around Big Bend area. They have small black bears out there, I believe. I don't know of any anywhere else in the state, but I suppose there could be some bears in the northeastern part of the state, up around the Ozarks and the Arkansas line, or possibly on the border with Louisiana, though I've never known anyone from that area of Texas or Louisiana who's ever even seen one.

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Sunday, October 9, 2011 6:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


" But BEARS?!?! Where DO you live??"

In the 'foothill' region of Southern California.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=6868500

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=7481449

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=7598465

This is my favorite - it's in the city I live in.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32399827

There have been reports (but no videos I could find) of bears literally lounging in hot tubs and wading pools. The City of Bradbury (sadly, not named for Ray Bradbury) has street signs posted about the presence of bears and rattlesnakes.




Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Sunday, October 9, 2011 9:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oops, sorry Mike...you meant coyotes, obviously. Now them I EXPECT in Texas!

San Dimas, eh Kiki? Yeah, no surprise there...you're right on the edge of some wilderness, aren't you? Not that far from Los Padres, too, yes? That would put you on the outside-outside of the urban area, so I'm not surprised.

Now BEARS, I can do without, thank you! Of all the wildlife I adore, bears are waaaay down the list...they're too unpredictable. I pretty much KNOW what a wolf, coyote, bobcat or cougar is going to do, but you just never know with bears! So you keep 'em down there, please, okay?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Sunday, October 9, 2011 12:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, we're not at the point of needing bear-proof trash containers. So I think it's all cool.

But yeah - the area keeps reminding me that when it comes to nature, you had best be prepared. So far I've been through two major earthquakes,three major wildfires that came within a mile of the house plus numerous smaller, closer fires (one on the hill directly across the street), and had a tornado pass directly over head (AWESOME! but the pressure drop gave me a strong malign impression). Then there are the many critters large and small, including the rare bear. But yeah - not only the critters you need to look our for, but the cool ones, like road runners, quail, tarantulas, bobcats, great Northern owls, preying mantises, etc. There's also bat rabies, rat bite fever, West Nile virus, Hanta virus and plague. At least so far I've had no mudslides. YEEEeeee ha! But I've been in Santa Ana winds with sustained winds at 90 mph and gusts well over 100 (fortunately not during a fire).

But I have to say - so far, so good. Up to this point, it just makes life interesting.




Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Sunday, October 9, 2011 7:56 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Wow San Dimas? That's where Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure happens! I love that movie.

W have coyotes in my city, I've heard tell that there's a pack of them that lives in the cemetary not too far from my house, 20 blocks or so. But we never see them, they seem to stay in there and don't bother people's cats and things, I guess there enough squirrels for them to eat.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, October 10, 2011 3:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wow Kiki, it's a wonder you still want to LIVE there! Sounds like one disaster after another. The tornado thing is weird; we've had a couple up here too, first time in known history was just a couple of years ago. Strange.

We don't have road runners (how KEWL!), but yeah, quail and all the others--except I don't think we have Great Northern Owls. We have Great HORNED Owls, and a whole bunch of others. In fact, just yeserday I picked up an owl box from the Hungry Owl Project to mount up in our redwoods...apparently we're right for a screech owl. Would rather have had barn owl or something that would hunt rats (we BADLY need that!), and gotta make sure I place it far from Jim's hot tub (because they dive bomb people), but hey, anything I can do to help! How big are your Great Northerns? I'll look them up...our Great Horned are friggin' BIG, impressive fellas, I love 'em.

Riona: Rats. Rabbits too, of course, but rats, mice, moles, voles, stuff like that is the major diet in suburban areas. Pets too, of course, but that's another matter!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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