Three and 1/2 days. by AURaptor

America loves a winner!

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=6158&mpid=56

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 5:47 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

What an interesting video.

Well, Mr. Raptor, I remember your nearly apoplectic anger of not so long ago.

Let's hear you take the lead on this one. BP does hard work for you, to make your life easier. They deserve more than a profit.

After saturating the gulf with oil, they deserve something extra.

Tell them 'Thank You,' Raptor, as the video presenter suggests. You might also extend some apologies for your harsh words during the gulf spill.

Meanwhile, we will remind the world that the banks which created worthless investments and the insurance companies that declared them viable were hard working individuals trying to make our lives easier. Yes, they helped to wreck the world economy, but they are hard-working individuals. They deserve more than a profit, and more than a government bailout. They deserve our Thanks.

And corporations don't only exist or operate in our country, Raptor. When Chinese corporations provide us with poisoned products, laced with dangerous chemicals, they deserve more than our money. They deserve a Thank You.

If only we could all spend three and a half days camping in the woods, we would all realize how grateful we should be to these corporations and others. Then we could give them the Thank You they deserve.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 5:50 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I happen to KNOW otherwise. It's propaganda, nothing more.

He's entitled to his opinion, assinine tho' it may be. But it IS only an opinion, and an uninformed one.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 5:55 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Niki,

Don't you understand? Your feelings are the result of you never having provided for yourself. If you took a three and a half day camping trip where you had to provide your own food and water, you would be rehabilitated.

I suppose all those hippies living in communes and farmer cooperatives could similarly be rehabilitated if only they spent three and a half days providing for their own needs.

Then they could start writing Thank You cards to all the corporations that struggle daily to make their lives easier.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:07 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

A rebuttal opinion on that video:

Quote:
Actually I think the video is pretty boiler plate. Obviously things are changing with wealth distribution, cost of education, quality of life in the middle class. One more guy in a suit with a cushy, high-paying job claiming everybody else is "just not working hard enough" is getting old. He stereotypes everybody in the occupy protests as people who have been told they're too special and haven't ever had a to live with little food, or been cold or had to work hard for something. Really?

I mean, to be frank, things are harder for kids coming up these days than they were in years past, not easier. I think Bill Whittle has it backwards, these kids are working way harder than he ever had. On average anyway. Schools are by-and-large exponentially more expensive than they were 30 years ago. More competitive too, its not enough to just get good grades and have decent test scores to get into a good school.

Its always interesting to me to see people comment on something they have absolutely no experience on. Nobody knows better right now what its like to be saddled with gobs of undergraduate debt and try to find an entry level position with little on their resume better than those who are actually doing it. I don't see much reason anybody should have much of a voice commenting on it.

And yes, kids are graduating with more debt. When middle class wadges are relatively flat over time and school costs 5-10% more each year, the extra money has to come from somewhere. Entry level jobs are tougher to find, especially those that have a decent salary. As far as working hard, I think its usually the people who have some limited experience working really hard who wear it like a badge of honor. Those people who I know who are the hardest workers don't spend time lecturing others on how to get their life on track. And from what I've seen in the recent past, everybody is working hard these days. Almost everybody I know has stories about scraping by, trying to raise kids and barely making it, sometimes going without something necessary. We've all done that, its not a unique story anymore. I think that's the problem, we're afraid to stand up and say that this protestant work ethic has gone a little too far. Maybe its not fair that somebody who does nothing for society working at a hedge fund has managed to game the system and make 300 times your salary for half the time investment.

Whats also often overlooked, I think, is that money in our society is more or less finite. That means if the top couple percent of people have 50% of the resources, that only leaves half for the rest of us. What's their incentive to move that cash? As the rich get richer, the total number of dollars available to the rest of us is less and less. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/thoughts-occupy-protests-207724-2.html to Bill Whittle:
Quote:
William Alfred Whittle is an author, blogger, essayist, and the host of Afterburner on Pajamas TV. His blog, Eject Eject Eject is now a part of Pajamas Media.

A self-described "writer, pilot, TV editor and American", he is the author of the book Silent America: Essays from a Democracy at War ISBN 9780976405900. Published in 2004, the 304 page book contains a collection of his essays.

Whittle achieved some renown amongst Conservative political circles, for his challenge to comedian Jon Stewart's assertion that the bombing of civilians at Hiroshima constituted a war crime by then US President Harry Truman.
Whittle is a Republican tool, just check him out on line and you'll find out. And a fitting tool for Raptor. Nothing else.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:09 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well said, Anthony, and right on point. Quoting this man as if he has an ounce of common sense is laughable.

To quote one person:

Quote:
bill whittle is such a condescending tool.
upvoting just to promote awareness of this jackass.
his arguments are always cherry-picked,wrought with false equivalencies and peppered with his own brand of dickish synonyms that i am sure he feels are cute and quaint but are really just him being a arrogant douchebag.

"empires fall because they were TOO successful"
uh...
no.
they fell due to internal corruption perpetuated by a system that rewarded greed and reciprocity,which expanded exponentially as those with power and influence needed more players to......
you know what?
i am not going to give a history lesson here.
if you think bill whittle is speaking truth...on any count.
then you are retarded. http://videosift.com/video/Three-A-Half-Days-Response-To-The-Occupy-Pr
otests?loadcomm=1 seem to think he's a tool, too. And tho' I don't consider Raptor "retarded" (as that's distinctly offensive to retarded people), it's obvious what he REALLY is. A Republican tool, and not a very good one.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:23 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Then they could start writing Thank You cards to all the corporations that struggle daily to make their lives easier.

While I'm at it, I am also sending Thank You cards to:

Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney, and Herman Cain for fearlessly advocating the freedom to "Jack Bauer" the asses of very, very bad people.

Al Gore, John Edwards, and Al Franken for compassionately advocating the judicious oversight of my money for fantastic causes I am clearly too stupid or selfish to understand.

The Dept of Homeland Security for keeping me secure in my homeland.

All the politicians on Capitol Hill for keeping our country orderly and safe.

Oh gosh. I am tearing up with all the gratitude I am feeling for all the wonderful people and institutions who take care of me.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:24 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I happen to KNOW otherwise. It's propaganda, nothing more.

He's entitled to his opinion, assinine tho' it may be. But it IS only an opinion, and an uninformed one.

It's not propaganda, Niki. It's reality.

Anthony, the event in the Gulf was a tragedy. However, my anger was mostly directed at Obama, for failing to more.

And banks didn't create worthless investments, out of thin air. They were as a direct result of what govt mandated they do, which was to supply and back mortgage loans for those who had no business buying a home in the first place. Not with the financial history and credit they had at that time.

When Obama speaks of Americans being too lazy ? He's talking DIRECTLY to the Occutard crowd. Even if he doesn't realize it.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:50 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Raptor,

Your attempt to convince me that the banking crisis was the single-handed act of government interference is going to be no more successful than convincing me that drowning people isn't torture.

You are talking to someone who knows better. Someone who was there and part of the process.

I am not confined by the narrow bounds of your imagination, nor am I informed by the propaganda of any political party. I have actual personal experience on these topics.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:57 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I happen to KNOW otherwise. It's propaganda, nothing more.

He's entitled to his opinion, assinine tho' it may be. But it IS only an opinion, and an uninformed one.

It's not propaganda, Niki. It's reality.

Anthony, the event in the Gulf was a tragedy. However, my anger was mostly directed at Obama, for failing to more.

For WHAT? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You were mad at the federal government for NOT stepping in, and for trying to let the corporations responsible for the disaster clean up their own mess? I thought that's what you were in favor of, because free markets will ALWAYS do such a better job of it, and government shouldn't be in the job of cleaning up corporate messes in the first place.

Quote:

And banks didn't create worthless investments, out of thin air. They were as a direct result of what govt mandated they do, which was to supply and back mortgage loans for those who had no business buying a home in the first place. Not with the financial history and credit they had at that time.

Banks were mandated to create credit-default swaps by the government? Huh. That's a new one. I was also surprised to hear that the government then required the banks ("mandated", I believe is your favorite word for it) to capitalize such investments at 100:1 instead of the more common and fiscally sound levels of 10:1 or even 25:1.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:05 AM

America loves a winner!

Anthony - I understand that you won't be swayed by any facts. I get that. However, you're skirting the issue of what this video is talking about. It's not JUST about the banking industry. It's about a group of people who are basking in the glow of modern technology, but refusing to accept the great lengths that others have gone to in order to bring them their precious iPhones, iPads, Crackberries, the internet, their ridiculously expensive coffee.

These whiners want all the comforts of modern life, but don't want to lift a finger earning it. They want it GIVEN to them. Hell, they DEMAND it be given to them, with out any concern or understanding of what it is they have.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
For WHAT? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You were mad at the federal government for NOT stepping in, and for trying to let the corporations responsible for the disaster clean up their own mess? I thought that's what you were in favor of, because free markets will ALWAYS do such a better job of it, and government shouldn't be in the job of cleaning up corporate messes in the first place.

It's his chronic derangement. He hates Obama with such a firey passion that even when he does what Rapptard would be advocating in ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE, he has to bitch - because that's the only way this idiot can form a thought.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:51 AM

America loves a winner!

When have I ever said that abjection of the proper functions of govt are ever a good thing ?

Never.

Defense of the nation's borders and resources is a primary function OF govt.

It's your irrational hatred of anyone who doesn't worship THE ONE which has you seeing cross eyed.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:57 AM

BYTEMITE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

*Shrug*

That aside, I am confused that some appear to think that three days getting food, water, and shelter for oneself in the wilderness is a hardship. The real lesson appears to be one of preparation and planning.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:25 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:These whiners want all the comforts of modern life, but don't want to lift a finger earning it. They want it GIVEN to them. Hell, they DEMAND it be given to them, with out any concern or understanding of what it is they have.

How can someone be this fucking out of touch? People want to be able to earn a living. The problem is that they are being made to work harder and harder for less. That is so simple to see it is not even funny. Remember when families use to have one income earner that worked and could provide a decent life for them?

I also find the new quote from Einstein funny from you, since you want the government to do only a few things...and nothing else.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:26 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Anthony - I understand that you won't be swayed by any facts."

Hello,

Actually, I have facts and evidence collected on the ground and in the relevant areas and industries. You have talking points and opinions that have been fed to you. But I understand that *you* won't be swayed by any facts. I get that.

"However, you're skirting the issue of what this video is talking about."

I'm not, actually.

"It's not JUST about the banking industry."

No, it's not *just* any one thing. However, if the banking industry had not helped to crash the world economy, this movement would not exist. The banking industry's missteps and the economic decline created by those missteps is the primary catalyst for the general dissatisfaction that created the Occupy movement. If you remove that element, none of this would exist. You'd have the usual G20 protests and that's it.

"It's about a group of people who are basking in the glow of modern technology, but refusing to accept the great lengths that others have gone to in order to bring them their precious iPhones, iPads, Crackberries, the internet, their ridiculously expensive coffee."

That may be what the video is trying to say, but it is making unfounded leaps and bizarre judgments. The idea that any of these products came into existence because of altruism on the part of corporations is not just incorrect, it's wrong enough to be alien. That we should Thank people for serving their own interests in the most mercenary fashion possible is... to put it mildly... strange.

"These whiners want all the comforts of modern life, but don't want to lift a finger earning it."

Many of the protesters are upset about the poor jobs situation. This does not track with your idea of people who want a Free lunch. They want to earn their lunch. And they would like others to earn their lunch, too. In fact, you might say that the Occupy movement is much more about denying Free Lunches to the elite, rather than insisting on Free Lunches for themselves.

"They want it GIVEN to them. Hell, they DEMAND it be given to them, with out any concern or understanding of what it is they have."

I think what the Occupiers want is fairness. That's generally what most people want in any situation. The Occupiers may not recognize why things are slanted the way they are. They may not understand the details of all the ways that the game is rigged against them. However, they have recognized that the game is broken, the odds are in the House's favor, and they're not going to win if the rules stay the same.

The one unifying message of the Occupy movement is simple: "Things are getting worse. This isn't working. Do something to fix it."

A million people with a million ideas about how to fix it, sure. But a million people who understand that it IS broken and who want to bring attention to that fact.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:59 AM

America loves a winner!

A -

Things ARE getting worse, we agree. But what you fail to understand ( or admit ) is this is all by design, from the Left. Barry's gang has been preaching, for decades , that the system needs to be collapsed. This is all going according to their plan. They WANT this.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

If you broadened your scope, we might actually agree on something.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Anthony - I understand that you won't be swayed by any facts. I get that. However, you're skirting the issue of what this video is talking about. It's not JUST about the banking industry. It's about a group of people who are basking in the glow of modern technology, but refusing to accept the great lengths that others have gone to in order to bring them their precious iPhones, iPads, Crackberries, the internet, their ridiculously expensive coffee.

These whiners want all the comforts of modern life, but don't want to lift a finger earning it. They want it GIVEN to them. Hell, they DEMAND it be given to them, with out any concern or understanding of what it is they have.

I have yet to see any evidence that such people exist. Where are these people who DEMAND that iPhones, iPads, Crackberries, the internet, and expensive coffee be GIVEN to them?

Certainly the Occupy movement isn't demanding these things.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
A -

Things ARE getting worse, we agree. But what you fail to understand ( or admit ) is this is all by design, from the Left.

Koo-koo alert!

Stop stealing PN's crazy schtick.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:19 AM

America loves a winner!

kwickie - again you claim I said something I did not. Per usual.

The Occutards DO want free living wages, for all. They DO want all debt wiped clean.. That IS wanting things for nothing.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:36 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Things ARE getting worse, we agree. But what you fail to understand ( or admit ) is this is all by design, from the Left. Barry's gang has been preaching, for decades , that the system needs to be collapsed. This is all going according to their plan. They WANT this.

Thinks have been gettign worse for a lot longer than since Obama and the Democrates took control.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:36 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Free living wages for all? I haven’t heard that one. I've yet to see that sign being held up at a rally. 'Living Wages for all' minus the free might be more plausible and certainly more reasonable.

Some Occupiers probably do want debt wiped clean. I suspect the majority would be satisfied if the rules for indebtedness were changed in various ways to make them less predatory and more fair.

It sounds to me like you are picking nuts while ignoring the tree.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:16 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I'm not too impressed with his condescending presentation.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:27 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

It sounds to me like you are picking nuts while ignoring the tree.

--Anthony

And that's the problem w/ trying to have any type of rational discussion here.

I make a claim, you dismiss it, out of hand. I give you a couple of specifics, and you claim it's merely nuts, while ignoring the tree. The real problem is, the Occutards have no real point. They have no real gripe, other than they want to gripe. They want to be a part of something, but have no real gorram clue as to what. Other than make the other guys out as villains, which means anyone who isn't on " their " side. The cops, the bankers, Wall Street, EMTs, who ever...

Maybe you should know who it is you're siding with...

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now... http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall
-st-moveme/

etc, etc.

It goes on, but you get the idea.

"Gimmie gimmie, I want, I want, but don't you dare make me accountable for anything. That's YOUR job!"

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:38 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

It sounds to me like you are picking nuts while ignoring the tree.

--Anthony

And that's the problem w/ trying to have any type of rational discussion here.

I make a claim, you dismiss it, out of hand. I give you a couple of specifics, and you claim it's merely nuts, while ignoring the tree. The real problem is, the Occutards have no real point. They have no real gripe, other than they want to gripe. They want to be a part of something, but have no real gorram clue as to what. Other than make the other guys out as villains, which means anyone who isn't on " their " side. The cops, the bankers, Wall Street, EMTs, who ever...

Maybe you should know who it is you're siding with...

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now... http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall
-st-moveme/

etc, etc.

It goes on, but you get the idea.

"Gimmie gimmie, I want, I want, but don't you dare make me accountable for anything. That's YOUR job!"

Holy fuck you are stupid. This is from that very link you posted, right at the damn top.

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:44 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
A -

Things ARE getting worse, we agree. But what you fail to understand ( or admit ) is this is all by design, from the Left.

Koo-koo alert!

Stop stealing PN's crazy schtick.

Obama's agenda: Overwhelm the system

Rahm Emanuel cynically said, "You never want a crisis to go to waste." It is now becoming clear that the crisis he was referring to is Barack Obama's presidency.

Obama is no fool. He is not incompetent. To the contrary, he is brilliant. He knows exactly what he's doing. He is purposely overwhelming the U.S. economy to create systemic failure, economic crisis and social chaos -- thereby destroying capitalism and our country from within.Â

Barack Obama is my college classmate (Columbia University, class of '83). As Glenn Beck correctly predicted from day one, Obama is following the plan of Cloward & Piven, two professors at Columbia University. They outlined a plan to socialize America by overwhelming the system with government spending and entitlement demands. Add up the clues below. Taken individually they're alarming. Taken as a whole, it is a brilliant, Machiavellian game plan to turn the United States into a socialist/Marxist state with a permanent majority that desperately needs government for survival ... and can be counted on to always vote for bigger government. Why not? They have no responsibility to pay for it.
http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/obama-s-agenda--overwhelm-the-system-95716
764.html

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:51 AM

America loves a winner!

Nickerson -

Nice CYA they did there, huh?

So, the only list of demands they have, isn't an " official " list, as there is no " official " list, right ?

Which only goes to further prove the point - the Occutards HAVE NO LEGITIMATE ISSUE! Other than to be official whiners, about anything and everything, but nothing in particular.

Unlike the T.E.A. party, Taxed Enough Already, which has a clear , concise message.

The difference is as clear as night and day.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:57 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"And that's the problem w/ trying to have any type of rational discussion here.

I make a claim, you dismiss it, out of hand. I give you a couple of specifics, and you claim it's merely nuts, while ignoring the tree."

Hello,

I agree that having a rational discussion with you is difficult.

You make a claim, and I dismiss it for specific reasons that you fail to recognize.

You obtain 'facts' from unrepresentative sources.

Then complain when the lack of representation is pointed out.

You call them an undisciplined, directionless mob.

Then you claim they are taking orders.

You get mad at an administration that fails to contain the failures of corporations.

But you don't get mad at the corporations that create the failures, nor understand how others might.

Your arguments and beliefs are amorphous and ever-changing, but they revolve and reform along a central concept:

"make the other guys out as villains"

Yeah, I get it. You don't like them much. Thanks for sharing your Deep. Meaningful. Insight.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:05 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Obama is no fool. He is not incompetent. To the contrary, he is brilliant. He knows exactly what he's doing. He is purposely overwhelming the U.S. economy to create systemic failure, economic crisis and social chaos

Hmm. If that's the case the only thing we have to watch out for is when outside interests or authoritarians take advantage of the collapse. Otherwise the collapse is a possible opportunity for grabbing the ball and going the other direction from what they want.

Maybe we should all be secretly rooting for this.

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:49 PM

America loves a winner!

Anthony - you're speaking gibberish now. The discussion at hand is based on the video which started this thread. Instead of sticking to the point, you're oscillating on parts of what I said, and going back to the Gulf oil spill, which has absolutely nothing to do w/ the OWS situation.

Yes, the Occupy nonsense is a colossal cluster. There's no denying that. And while the Democratic leaders hoped, prayed the occutards would be the flip side the the TEA party rallies, it's fallen far short of their expectations.

Yes, there is and has been , from the start, big time Left wing organization and $ involved w/ the occutards, though the hilarious claims to the contrary keep getting repeated, over and over.

I'm not real sure what more can be said. The movement is dying, and most Americans are glad to see it go.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:57 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am focusing on parts of what you say that are inconsistent with other parts of what you say and what you claim to believe. The 'gibberish' you are sensing is the unsettling feeling generated by your brain trying to reconcile irreconcilable statements. Your own irreconcilable statements.

The Occupy Wall Street protesters hold no small amount of anger towards Corporations.

The video suggests that corporations are merely benevolent entities who do things for us that we would not wish to do for ourselves.

It concludes by suggesting that we should Thank the corporations, including (specifically) BP.

Leaving aside the fact that this is illogical (Corporations are extremely self-interested) we live in a time where the failures of corporations are in very recent memory. BP, specifically mentioned in the video, was responsible for the most heinous environmental disaster of my lifetime. You yourself were throwing fits of rage over the spill and the botched cleanup which followed. But when it is suggested that some of the ire rightfully belongs to the 'Thankworthy' corporation, your rage mysteriously skips over them and attaches to your Other, your Enemy. Obama. The Democrats. The Liberals.

Of course, BP is but a single example. Corporations are constantly making huge missteps that threaten our livelihood. Our current economic disaster was ushered in by the actions of corporations. Your video makes no observation of this fact, and exhorts us to Thank the corps for their benevolence.

It is preposterous in this view. Just as it is preposterous in the view that a three day camping trip would successfully reprogram people who have the audacity to lack proper respect and gratitude towards corporations. In fact, the video is so audaciously ludicrous that it is almost a parody of itself.

But you nonetheless hold the video up as an example to learn from because it attacks the Other you despise.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM

America loves a winner!

They're angry at corporations because their dear and fluffy leader has told them to be angry.

Yes, they should thank the PEOPLE who work for those corporations, who do the dirty, hard and often inglorious jobs which enable the spoiled brats at these Occupy camps to live the life as they do. BP was among others, and was brought up because this administration has gone out of its way to vilify BP, above and beyond what was needed.

There was no claim of hint of 'benevolence', just a stark and honest commentary that , with out these people doing what they do, we couldn't enjoy the life style we've grown accustomed.

Your sense of proportion needs a serious re-calibration.

It seems the more I try to talk reason and show you the errors of your way, the harder you resist and the further you shove your head into the ground...

I'm done w/ this.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:29 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Raptor,

The Occupy Wall Street people include people who have worked and do work for corporations. They are the very same people who perform dirty, hard, and often inglorious jobs. Some of them are soldiers who have fought and bled for this nation. You speak about them as if they were extruded by some alien entity and plopped down on Earth, Starbucks in hand, and need to be shown 'what's what.'

It is important for you to believe that the Occupy movement fits some kind of stereotype so that you can attack them. An Occupier might be anybody. But you need to see them as homeless, or criminals, or unemployed, or spoiled brats. That's fine, as far as it goes. But they are also the employed. The hard working. The minimum-wage corporate grunts (the ones you want to Thank.) The educated. The uneducated. They are military veterans. They are police officers. They are rich. They are poor. They are every damned thing you can think of, because there are simply too many of them to fit neatly into one destructible stereotype of your choosing.

Widen your gaze.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
kwickie - again you claim I said something I did not. Per usual.

So you did not post this?

Quote:
It's about a group of people who are basking in the glow of modern technology, but refusing to accept the great lengths that others have gone to in order to bring them their precious iPhones, iPads, Crackberries, the internet, their ridiculously expensive coffee. These whiners want all the comforts of modern life, but don't want to lift a finger earning it. They want it GIVEN to them. Hell, they DEMAND it be given to them, with out any concern or understanding of what it is they have.

You didn't post any of that? Is that what you're saying? Are you trying to be like Newt here, and claim that anyone who uses your actual words, IN CONTEXT, is lying?

They're your words, dearie; I didn't make them up. I'm not claiming you said something you didn't; I'm quoting you directly.

Quote:

The Occutards DO want free living wages, for all. They DO want all debt wiped clean.. That IS wanting things for nothing.

Really? Can you show us some cites, some evidence for this? I've not heard any demands for "free living wages for all", or for "ALL debt wiped clean."

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:36 PM

America loves a winner!

A - no, it's not " important for me to believe " that they're anything.

I know them for who they ARE ! By what they say they stand for , or DON'T stand for, which ever the hell the case may be.

I'm not even going to dignify that crap about soldiers and hard working people, because they make up so few, so small a % of the morons who make up the OWS gang, it's a gorram joke.

Yeah, 1 guy was there, yapping it up, causing a ruckus, or trying to start one, when no one was challenging him in the least. The more the cops allowed him to speak, the louder he spoke, almost TRYING to start some sort of confrontation.

I feel sorry for the guy. He's being lied to, mislead, by the folks who are promoting this utopian nonsense. I'm sure this scene which the Left has created, isn't what he was over seas for , fighting for, and it disturbs him. But quite frankly, he's being used, and I think I hate those assholes even more for it. In fact, I know I do.

Glad their silly movement is falling apart. Time for Barry's Kids to go home now. Play time is over.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nickerson -

Nice CYA they did there, huh?

So, the only list of demands they have, isn't an " official " list, as there is no " official " list, right ?

Which only goes to further prove the point - the Occutards HAVE NO LEGITIMATE ISSUE! Other than to be official whiners, about anything and everything, but nothing in particular.

Unlike the T.E.A. party, Taxed Enough Already, which has a clear , concise message.

The difference is as clear as night and day.

When did the Tea Party register as a full-fledged political party? What candidates have run as official Tea Party candidates? Where is their full campaign platform listed? What website has the platform that every Tea Party member has pledged to support?

Every time I've asked such questions, I've been rebuffed with "But they aren't a real party; they're really more of a movement, not a party" and "But they don't nominate candidates or have a list of demands - they're really just more of a group of ideas..."

WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL ISSUE OF *THE* TEA PARTY? And *IS* there *A* Tea Party, or are there just bunches of groups of angry folks yelling about different things?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes, there is and has been , from the start, big time Left wing organization and $ involved w/ the occutards, though the hilarious claims to the contrary keep getting repeated, over and over.

Proof?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:39 PM

America loves a winner!

Taxed

Enough

Already

Even you, kwickie, can follow that one, right ?

Maybe not.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

It is important for you to believe that the Occupy movement fits some kind of stereotype so that you can attack them. An Occupier might be anybody. But you need to see them as homeless, or criminals, or unemployed, or spoiled brats. That's fine, as far as it goes. But they are also the employed. The hard working. The minimum-wage corporate grunts (the ones you want to Thank.) The educated. The uneducated. They are military veterans. They are police officers. They are rich. They are poor. They are every damned thing you can think of, because there are simply too many of them to fit neatly into one destructible stereotype of your choosing.

Widen your gaze.

--Anthony

QFT

Add this little tidbit, which will of course be ignored or denied by, certain parties.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/most-occupy-protesters-have-job
s.html

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
A - no, it's not " important for me to believe " that they're anything.

I know them for who they ARE ! By what they say they stand for , or DON'T stand for, which ever the hell the case may be.

I'm not even going to dignify that crap about soldiers and hard working people, because they make up so few, so small a % of the morons who make up the OWS gang, it's a gorram joke.

Speaking of needing to recalibrate... You really might want to read that last bit again, and see how you come off. You just said outright that soldiers and hard-working people are "a small percent of the morons" in the OWS movement.

Did you really mean to call American soldiers morons?

Quote:

Yeah, 1 guy was there, yapping it up, causing a ruckus, or trying to start one, when no one was challenging him in the least. The more the cops allowed him to speak, the louder he spoke, almost TRYING to start some sort of confrontation.

I feel sorry for the guy. He's being lied to, mislead, by the folks who are promoting this utopian nonsense. I'm sure this scene which the Left has created, isn't what he was over seas for , fighting for, and it disturbs him. But quite frankly, he's being used, and I think I hate those assholes even more for it. In fact, I know I do.

So now you're down to calling soldiers and those who support free speech "assholes", and claiming that you hate them even more for fighting to protect those rights for the rest of us.

Congrats. You've made an utter and complete ass of yourself this time, and not even your so-called conservative friends will stick with you on this one.

Quote:

Glad their silly movement is falling apart. Time for Barry's Kids to go home now. Play time is over.

You aren't paying attention. Far from "falling apart", the movement is getting stronger, spreading and growing.

I can feel your fear from here. It's palpable. They have you terrified.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Taxed

Enough

Already

Are you saying there's only one Tea Party? One issue? One demand?

Are they listed as an official political party anywhere? Where is the one website where one can find their entire platform listed out?

Who is the head of the party? Who are the official party candidates?

It should be very simple for you to answer these questions, if it's as simple an issue as you say.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"And that's the problem w/ trying to have any type of rational discussion here.

I make a claim, you dismiss it, out of hand. I give you a couple of specifics, and you claim it's merely nuts, while ignoring the tree."

Hello,

I agree that having a rational discussion with you is difficult.

You make a claim, and I dismiss it for specific reasons that you fail to recognize.

You obtain 'facts' from unrepresentative sources.

Then complain when the lack of representation is pointed out.

You call them an undisciplined, directionless mob.

Then you claim they are taking orders.

Perfect!

Quote:

You get mad at an administration that fails to contain the failures of corporations.

But you don't get mad at the corporations that create the failures, nor understand how others might.

In fact, far from getting mad at the corporations, Rappy insists that we should THANK them for things like the massive BP spill, and that we should BLAME Obama for not fixing it after all those hard-working corporate drones worked so hard to spread all that cheery oil all over the Gulf.

Quote:

Your arguments and beliefs are amorphous and ever-changing, but they revolve and reform along a central concept:

"make the other guys out as villains"

Yeah, I get it. You don't like them much. Thanks for sharing your Deep. Meaningful. Insight.

--Anthony

Again, perfect.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:47 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hmmm, maybe I'm getting it. You guys LIKE arguing with him, going back over the same old material every time he posts it, responding to his absurd idiocy as if it's valid points which need refuting. How incredibly sad! Maybe he's all that keeps this place alive. But not for me, I'm not into playing "Raptor triggers every other poster"; I'll wait for a discussion worth joining. I got better stuff to do than sit here putting forth facts and arguing with someone who is, remember, DELIBERATELY saying provocative things and lying just to get your attention. Have fun!

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:51 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I'm not sure I agree with your analysis, Niki, but I may agree with your destination.

I think I am beginning to get a handle on the process of Raptor's mind. However, what I find there is not helpful towards conducting an intelligent debate. Therefore your solution of ignoring him may indeed be for the best.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

AnthonyT

Well, looking on from afar, it sure seems to me like you gave it a sincere, intelligent, and persistent try.

This whole thread was to me a wonderfully clear elucidation of how Rappy can tie his brain in knots trying to make each and every story's beginning land on a pre-determined end - facts, logical consistency and ethics be damned.

I still intend to observe his posts, b/c I keep thinking there is a single emotional drive for where it all goes so horribly wrong, and I hope to find it. In general, I think people do things in response to an emotional cause.

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Friday, November 18, 2011 3:44 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nickerson -

Nice CYA they did there, huh?

So, the only list of demands they have, isn't an " official " list, as there is no " official " list, right ?

Which only goes to further prove the point - the Occutards HAVE NO LEGITIMATE ISSUE! Other than to be official whiners, about anything and everything, but nothing in particular.

Unlike the T.E.A. party, Taxed Enough Already, which has a clear , concise message.

The difference is as clear as night and day.

The wealth gap and corporate greed are the issues, you have been told that before.

You must get dizzy from all that spinning you do!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 18, 2011 3:58 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
[BHmmm, maybe I'm getting it. You guys LIKE arguing with him, going back over the same old material every time he posts it, responding to his absurd idiocy as if it's valid points which need refuting. How incredibly sad! Maybe he's all that keeps this place alive. But not for me, I'm not into playing "Raptor triggers every other poster"; I'll wait for a discussion worth joining. I got better stuff to do than sit here putting forth facts and arguing with someone who is, remember, DELIBERATELY saying provocative things and lying just to get your attention. Have fun!

yes, at some point the facts become almost inconsequential and dominance is the main driving force. Nature.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, November 18, 2011 4:05 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
The wealth gap and corporate greed are the issues, you have been told that before.

Been told a lot of things, like how we all should have a 'free living wage, free healthcare, and doing away with ALL debt '. But there's still no solutions from the occutards, other than some 'random individual', who has a list of DEMANDS, which sure as hell doesn't sound like reasonable answers to the stated problems.

On the flip side, the basic view of the TEA party is that the federal govt is too big, is already taking enough of our $ to run the proper functions of govt, and that we don't have a revenue ( tax ) problem, but a SPENDING problem. We just passed the 15 TRILLION $ mark for this country being in debt. That's ridiculously too high, and we need to lower taxes, stop wasteful spending, and get our economy back in gear, so we can generate more revenue which can be used to pay down the debt, and NOT continue being wasted on mindless pork projects and utopian ideals.

If that's the ONE thing, the one idea that can be driven home, I'll call that a win.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Friday, November 18, 2011 6:31 AM