Body count rises for Occupy movement. by AURaptor

I'll admit that the death toll of the tea party was lower. I can't blame it on the socialism though, I think it's the permanent camp and maybe homeless people.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:41 AM

America loves a winner!

Yeah,"0" is generally seen as a lower number than 7,8,...

But the body count is only part of the tragedy. There's the muggings, beatings, rapes, robberies, drug use, sanitary issues, mounds of trash... and that's not to mention the court costs and other array of problems, in dealing w/ the cops.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:39 AM

America loves a winner!

Interesting quote, Anthony, but what these folks are dying for , it isn't freedom. It's an insistence for more govt, less freedom and ultimately, a true 1% elitist class, and a 99% class of everyone else, living in near poverty.

No thank you.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:48 AM

I don't think it would be that bad. But I also don't want it. I've tried to ignore the message of occupy because I think their anger is the same as the tea party, and that it's more important that they unite against the ruling class system than that they attack each other over policy disagreements

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:57 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you Anthony. And thank you DT, I agree with most of what you said.

Either the sheer amount of ignorance around OWS is phenomenal, or--no, wait, given the ignorance of FauxNews viewers, I guess it's not phenomenal at all, it's predictable. The rest of the world should bear in mind the suggestions from Luntz of how to deal with OWS by Luntz (and why he actually hates/fears us); you can be sure some of it's already been implemented, and FauxNews is an eager participant.

Quote:
University spokesman Buddy Price said officers from the school‘s police department found the man’s body Saturday after someone called authorities, the Dallas Morning News reported. Price said no one else was at the encampment when police arrived.

He told the newspaper the man is believed to have been a member of the Occupy Denton encampment.

The man’s name and age have not been officially released, but in a statement Occupy Denton identified him as “fellow occupier” Darwin Cox, and said he had a “lifelong struggle with drug addiction.”

“He was found in a tent on the Occupy Denton camp where he had been given shelter after a fellow occupier saw him suffering from a fever,” the statement said. “Darwin’s lifelong struggle with drug addiction is suspected to have played a role in this tragedy.”

Gee, what an unusual occurrence...people with serious problems, or ill, who are on the street die every day. Oh, wait, it IS unusual...someone took pity and gave him shelter for the last hours/days of his life. Yeah, would have been better if he'd died under a bridge or in an alley. Now watch this be used as an excuse to wipe out the camp. Perfect for "some", actually, because it wouldn't have provided fodder to blame OWS. If I were a FauxNews watcher, I'm sure I'd believe in just a few hours that this was OWS' fault, that one of them no doubt gave him the drugs then killed him. Evil Occupiers!

Sad right wing. So easily manipulated. Now THEY would have called him a druggie bum and let him die on the street, as he OBVIOUSLY deserved!

Interestingly, I'm finding local papers are less inclined to play the party line, so I'm looking for them now, rather than the MSM. I discovered that when I read the coverage of the Oakland mess, and it's proving more true every day. Just interesting.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:05 AM

America loves a winner!

Spin it any way you want, Niki, but the odds of ending up raped, shot, mugged, robbed or dead in the Occupy camps are very real. Well, at least real for those who actually STAY there. We know most of those tents aren't even occupied, but are there mainly for show.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:59 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Spin it any way you want, Niki, but the odds of ending up raped, shot, mugged, robbed or dead in the Occupy camps are very real. Well, at least real for those who actually STAY there. We know most of those tents aren't even occupied, but are there mainly for show.

Spin it any way you want, Rappy, but the chances of being raped, shot, mugged, robbed, or dead in any large gathering of people is very real. U.S. soldiers have done all of those things you've listed; it seems obvious that you'll agree we must disband the military in order to protect people.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:13 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Interesting quote, Anthony, but what these folks are dying for , it isn't freedom. It's an insistence for more govt, less freedom and ultimately, a true 1% elitist class, and a 99% class of everyone else, living in near poverty.

No thank you.

How dare you question our Communist leaders and their kosher masters!

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:14 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, Mikey, let him have his ignorance, he loves it so much!

His overlords reinforce his idiotic beliefs, his hypocrisy is manifold, and nothing will ever change any of that. Besides, we'll never know what his actual beliefs are, he just plays games and feels no responsibility for what he writes, you know that.

Let the little guy play with himself; the only way he gets to play with others is if they take the bait.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:19 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Spin it any way you want, Rappy, but the chances of being raped, shot, mugged, robbed, or dead in any large gathering of people is very real.

Deaths related to Occupy protest = 8

Deaths related to TEA party activity = 0

No spin, just facts.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Monday, December 5, 2011 3:09 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, wait, it IS unusual...someone took pity and gave him shelter for the last hours/days of his life.

Too bad that they didn't keep a watch on a obviously ill person they'd taken responsibility for, or call 911 to get him some help before he died, or stay with the body until authorities arrived.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 5, 2011 3:14 AM

The GOP should be cheering this - after all, they cheered when someone shouted "Let 'em die!" in response to a question about what to do with someone who has no health insurance at a recent GOP debate.

Sounds like the OWS movement is doing exactly what the GOP faithful have asked for.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 3:53 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Spin it any way you want, Niki, but the odds of ending up raped, shot, mugged, robbed or dead in the Occupy camps are very real. Well, at least real for those who actually STAY there. We know most of those tents aren't even occupied, but are there mainly for show.

Spin it any way you want, Rappy, but the chances of being raped, shot, mugged, robbed, or dead in any large gathering of people is very real. U.S. soldiers have done all of those things you've listed; it seems obvious that you'll agree we must disband the military in order to protect people.

So now you're comparing the Occupy folks to a bunch of raping, shooting, mugging, robbing, killing U.S. soldiers?

Be careful. Niki's gonna be calling you a Republican any time now.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 5, 2011 4:15 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Deaths related to Occupy protest = 8

Deaths related to TEA party activity = 0

Its not just deaths. Its rapes, assaults, robbery, vandalism, riot, menacing, disorderly conduct, public lewdness and so on.

Also this has cost the host cities tens of millions of dollars in police overtime, lost revenue, and cleanup costs.

By comparison the TEA Party paid for their events. This has lead to host cities committing Civil Rights violations against the TEA Party by charging them, but not charging the OWS. Thats content based discrimination...which will cost the host cities even more in litigation costs and ultimately repayment of the TEA Party for the money they paid to the cities and the costs to litigate...and possibly punitive damages.

I think host cities are starting to realize that if they'd bashed in a few head on day one, this would have been far cheaper for everyone. Especially since the head bashing was pretty much going to happen at some point anyway...since these OWS types can't show any sort of gratitude or civil responsibility to their host cities.

Not all host cities are getting the message though, Richmond doubled down on its Civil Rights assault on the TEA Party by ordering a audit of their books and threatening them with criminal charges, ironically a couple days after they asked for their money back. Why? They want the taxes on meals and drinks sold at TEA Party events...where no meals or drinks are sold. They want the proper forms filed...despite the forms being filed monthly as required. So good job Richmond, now you'll be charged even more money defending yourself in Federal Court, cases you can't win.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 4:34 AM

Quote:
Geezer
Be careful. Niki's gonna be calling you a Republican any time now.

Lol. But that's what makes our whole political system so pointless: Compared Niki, Mike *is* a republican, and compared to Mike I am, but from where Hero stands I'm some sort of hippy radical.

Oh, and here he is not proving me wrong:

Quote:
Its not just deaths. Its... public lewdness

;) Forget the deaths, there are tits!

Quote:
the TEA Party paid for their events

Okay, he has a point. Not all of them, but they did get permission to hold them.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 4:48 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
;) Forget the deaths, there are tits!

I'm in favor of topless women...but it needs to be regulated. Some women should not be allowed to be topless...ever. Others, it should be mandatory. The only way to be fair to everyone is to have a govt agency sort it all out.

Now there is a govt agency I can get behind. In fact I'd love to be the Prosecutor on those cases.

"Judge, I present exhibits C and D..."

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 7:05 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Cute, Geezer. I believe his point was "in any large gathering of people". I disagree that comparing OWS to soldiers in the field is erroneous; soldiers are SENT there to kill. I would say more appropriate would be the fact that there were 95 murder (not just "deaths")s in Oakland last year alone, 318 rapes, 2,492 assaults, and many other crimes ( http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Oakland-California.html). I realize noting 8 deaths which occurred in OWS camps NATIONWIDE--one of which was a typical Oakland gang situation (so does Oakland get the blame or OWS? We all know the answer from the right), and another of which was the death of a long-time drug addict gives you guys a hard on, but it's totally meaningless.

It, of course, never occurred to you that these are gatherings of thousands and THOUSANDS of people accross the entire United States...and eight deaths? Nobody is comparing the Tea Party to Occupy except you--while I FREELY admit that we have many things in common about what changes we want to see, we are two entirely different animals in how we go about trying to raise awareness of the problems.

Unfortunately, where the Tea Party is concerned, their visceral response IS that the latest sufferer should have died. He surely had no medical insurance, quite possibly no family to care for him, and was someone they would gladly qualify as not deserving help, having "brought his situation upon himself". You joyously forget all the things you yourselves have said about this, now that you can try to blame his death on what you view as a greater enemy. But we have only to recall things you have written time and time again about the weak among us--especially drug addicts and the homeless!--to know how you would have viewed this man. The Tea Party members' reaction when the issue of letting people die came up in the "Tea Party Debate". I'm sure on an individual basis many, if not the majority, of those people would take some form of action and/or feel differently, at least I fervently HOPE so, but nonetheless, if you want to play partisan, there it is. They cheered the idea of letting someone without insurace die, period.

So to assign that attitude is as stupidly partisan jihad as saying the OWS was responsible for this person's death, so I don't accept it, I believe it was more a mob reaction of the moment. You wouldn't do so, would you? You'd jump on it like a horny buffalo to hold it up as evidence of how evil the "left" is.

You'll have to show me exactly where OWS "took responsibility" for his welfare, given all I've heard is that they let him sleep in one of their tents out of compassion. How many Tea Partiers would have onsidered doing so? Few, I believe, if any. Although I refuse to accept they truly believe what that audience expressed, I don't think they'd go out of their way to "take responsibility" for someone like that. You're just so desperate and blind to NEED to say these things that it's pathetic; there is no middle ground for any of you, no room for there to be anything even neutral where anything or anyone you disagree with exists, and that is truly, truly sad. Aside from making communication impossible, it narrows your own lives something fierce.

You are in essence the epitome of what makes the internet bad. Just about everyone else here is capable of seeing concepts of moderation, compromise, even GOOD things on whatever is the "other" side of their political beliefs...including me, who you consider your sworn enemy and the extreme version of everything you hate. But not you, there is no concession, no reasoning, no logic, just yapping about anything you can grasp at that is bad about anything which doesn't fit your narrow viewpoint.

Sadly, Mike and a couple of others seem to be almost as desperate to grasp in the opposite direction, and that's embarrassing, because aside from them, almost everyone here finds something good or at least neutral about virtually every issue. But say "progressive", "liberal", and now that you've decided they are purely liberal, although they're not, "Occupy", and you start drooling like Pavlov's dogs and looking around for something with which to attack them. What a way to think!

Hero, you are one of the worst.

Quote:
Its not just deaths. Its rapes, assaults, robbery, vandalism, riot, menacing, disorderly conduct, public lewdness and so on.

You literally have no concept whatsoever of what you speak.

This man's death is a prime example. You've got to make it Occupy's fault, got to use it as an excuse to excoriate them, don't you? It would seem to indicate that you fear the Occupy movement as much as Mr. Luntz does. Facts mean nothing to him, or to you:

Quote:
Occupy members immediately recognized him, not as a student or a protester, but as a homeless and drug-addicted man who’d been taken in by the group and given food and shelter. Police are investigating the death, but say they don’t suspect foul play.

That you view that as something evil about Occupy and attempt to use it as fodder to vilify them is the only statement necessary.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 10:03 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Cute, Geezer. I believe his point was "in any large gathering of people".

It was a joke, Niki - doing unto Mike as he does unto others. Like "Democrats in 1988?" in another thread. It was just another throwaway line.

It is kind'a funny that you feel you must respond to such with pages of references and quotes. You're just so unremittingly serious about this stuff.

I note that you don't respond directly to my question - about why no one looked after this man, or called 911, or had the decency to wait with his body until comeone came to get him - except to try and deflect responsibility. In many societies, if you provide a person with lodging as a favor, you accept some responsibility for them. Since the Occupy folks seem to be promoting more responsibility for the needy and homeless, looks like taking care of this guy would have been right up their alley. Just wonder why the folks there didn't, beyond giving him somewhere to die.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 5, 2011 12:14 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
It is kind'a funny that you feel you must respond to such with pages of references and quotes. You're just so unremittingly serious about this stuff. "

It never gets old, does it?

Oh, yeah, it does. It's never NOT been.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Monday, December 5, 2011 1:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Spin it any way you want, Niki, but the odds of ending up raped, shot, mugged, robbed or dead in the Occupy camps are very real. Well, at least real for those who actually STAY there. We know most of those tents aren't even occupied, but are there mainly for show.

Spin it any way you want, Rappy, but the chances of being raped, shot, mugged, robbed, or dead in any large gathering of people is very real. U.S. soldiers have done all of those things you've listed; it seems obvious that you'll agree we must disband the military in order to protect people.

So now you're comparing the Occupy folks to a bunch of raping, shooting, mugging, robbing, killing U.S. soldiers?

Actually, I was comparing the soldiers to the OWS people. But thanks for letting us all know how little you support the troops!

Quote:

Be careful. Niki's gonna be calling you a Republican , any time now.

And? Should it really matter to me what anyone calls me? I honestly can't think of a time when I voted for a Republican, but knock yourselves out. I'm sure I'll survive.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, December 5, 2011 7:24 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

This thread makes me sad. I don't like the idea of folk dying alone. I don't like the idea of folk dying period, but there's nothing I can do about that one.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, December 6, 2011 2:46 AM

Everybody dies alone, Riona.

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Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:18 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Tea Party folks - willing to pay $30 or so for a parking spot and materials to make a sign for their cause.

Occupy folks - willing to get pepper sprayed, beaten, arrested, serisouly injured and maybe killed for their cause. Plus make a sign!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 8:31 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
It is kind'a funny that you feel you must respond to such with pages of references and quotes. You're just so unremittingly serious about this stuff.

Perhaps it's just that we have different styles. I enjoy actual debating, which means making one's points and backing them up, that's all. I do it on tons of different subjects, not just politics. Nobody says you have to read.

As to "responsibility" and why they didn't wait around, the Occupy camps have long since learned not to hang around when the cops come, unless they want to confront them. As to the rest, I don't know the details of how much they might have tried to help him, etc. I DO know that at most of the Occupy camps, medical personnel have not been allowed in (which is why doctors and nurses have come in individually and out of uniform). Beyond that, I can't respond without more details, which the MSM does not seem to have provided.

Nick, you made me giggle. Falls on deaf ears of those already deaf, which is why I don't respond to them, but cute, nonetheless. Me, I probably would have snarked:

Tea Partiers: Willing (and ABLE) to pay $30 for a parking spot, a catered event with stages, bunlting and decorations, and materials to make misspelled and/or ignorant signs with which include racism, homophobia, xenophobia and religion;

Occupiers: Willing to seep out in the cold and rain, get pepper sprayed, beaten, arrested, seriously injured and maybe killed for their cause. Plus feed and take in the homeless and bring their own materials to make correctly-spelled, on-point signs about important issues!

But then, I know I'm prejudiced...

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 8:37 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Tea Party folks - willing to pay $30 or so for a parking spot and materials to make a sign for their cause.

Occupy folks - willing to get pepper sprayed, beaten, arrested, serisouly injured and maybe killed for their cause. Plus make a sign!

Funny, when TEA party folks hold their rallies, there's no need for pepper spray or beatings, yet Nancy Pelosi gets all weepy eyed,and fears that a violent tone is being promoted.

And yet, when the OWS gang actually engages in violence, crime, vandalism, what's Princess Pelosi say ?

" God bless them "

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 8:46 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Funny, when TEA party folks hold their rallies, there's no need for pepper spray or beatings,

That's because they are doing the bidding of those holding the purse-strings.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 8:54 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Perhaps it's just that we have different styles. I enjoy actual debating, which means making one's points and backing them up, that's all.

I do to, and such posts usually have a good bit of text and cites. One or two lines, especially those directed at Mike, aren't gonna be all that serious.

Quote:
As to "responsibility" and why they didn't wait around, the Occupy camps have long since learned not to hang around when the cops come, unless they want to confront them.

True. That's part of civil disobedience.

Quote:
Tea Partiers: Willing (and ABLE) to pay $30 for a parking spot, a catered event with stages, bunlting and decorations, and materials to make misspelled and/or ignorant signs...

Looks like folks on both sides can make spelling mistakes.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:07 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No, Geezer; that's known as a TYPO, y'know? And it's not on any sign. Considering your taking me to task, that's amusing. I have yet to spot a misspelled sign in ANY Occupy demonstration.

Quote:
when the OWS gang actually engages in violence, crime, vandalism

I would ask for cites of where the ACTUAL Occupy protesters have engaged in any of this (not the anarchists or other groups), but I know the poster, as is his usual MO, would never bother backing up your absurdities.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 12:45 PM

Okay, this is now officially pathetic.

The revolution is throwing tomatoes at each other, ergo, itself, instead of taking the fight to the power.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 1:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Funny, when TEA party folks hold their rallies, there's no need for pepper spray or beatings,

That's because they are doing the bidding of those holding the purse-strings.

Really? Is that the angle you're gonna go with? Even when the fact of the matter is, Wall Street has given more $ to the Obama campaign than all of the GOP candidates - combined.

Kinda blows your little fantasy right the hell out of the water, huh?

Quote:

Obama still flush with cash from financial sector despite frosty relations

By Dan Eggen and T.W. Farnam, Published: October 19

Despite frosty relations with the titans of Wall Street, President Obama has still managed to raise far more money this year from the financial and banking sector than Mitt Romney or any other Republican presidential candidate, according to new fundraising data.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-has-more-cash-from-financ
ial-sector-than-gop-hopefuls-combined-data-show/2011/10/18/gIQAX4rAyL_story.html

Of course, it's SOP w/ Obama, and his Chicago style politics. Put the pressure on them in public, but take their $ under the table, with promises that nothing will ever change, no matter how loud and violent his cohorts in the OWS gang get. Just business as usual, right ? *wink* ..Riiight.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 1:50 PM