REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Occupy K Street

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, December 9, 2011 13:54
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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Aw-RIGHT!
Quote:

Thousands of protesters have gathered on Washington's K Street, known as the home of lobbying in the nation's capital.

The demonstration includes participants in the Occupy D.C. encampment and other groups sympathetic to their message about income inequality. They're asking lawmakers to represent the 99 percent of ordinary Americans, rather than the wealthy.

Crowds began gathering on K Street shortly before noon Wednesday. They chanted, "Banks got bailed out. We got sold out," and "Whose street? Our street."

The protesters included people from unions, as well as residents from other cities, including Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

District of Columbia transportation officials have said the demonstration may impact the evening rush hour and are urging drivers to avoid the area.

Occupiers are also expected to make their way to the White House and the Supreme Court on Wednesday evening.
.....
Take Back The Capitol protesters, meanwhile, set up shop on the National Mall earlier this week.

While not officially affiliated with the Occupy movement, protesters have traveled to Washington to demonstrate against many of the same issues. http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/12/k-street-protests-occupy-take-bac
k-the-capitol-set-to-protest-lobbyists-70033.html

NOW they're starting to protest the REAL culprits!

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:29 AM

HERO


Maybe they need a lobbyist since the whole camp sing-a-long/riot thing isn't working.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:39 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The world wide attention would say different!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 10:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The world wide attention would say different!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Don't mind Hero. He must speak up for his maters.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:13 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Don't mind Hero. He must speak up for his maters.


Hmmm...what I say matters or I have a lot of sex? I'm good either way...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:16 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The world wide attention would say different!


Lots if things get world wide attention.

Seventy years ago Japan attack Pearl Harbor...that got world wide attention. Paris Hilton made a sex tape...that got world wide attention. Yet those things have very little to do with each other and their relative merits are simply to extreme to allow comparison.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:28 AM

STORYMARK


Have you said anything worthwhile in the last 5 years?

Or have you just settled fully into your Neo-Con clown role?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



"Wall Street already has their man and his name is Barack Obama." - Michael Moore.


Michael Moore gave a dark warning to Piers Morgan on Wednesday night, when the documentary filmmaker and advocate appeared on his CNN show.

Moore and Morgan were discussing the remaining seven GOP candidates, who Moore described as "a crazy bunch." Moore said that at this point in the election, he thought that Wall Street and corporate American would have "paid" and "come up with" a candidate who represented their interests and was able to " pull independents and Democrats and beat Obama."

When Morgan asked if there was a theory to explain why, according to Moore, no such candidate has emerged, Moore warned that perhaps President Obama was already that candidate. He referred to a Washington Post article that reported Obama had received more campaign contributions from the financial and banking industry than any other candidate at that time.

Moore said that if the aforementioned article was accurate, then "Wall Street already has their man and his name is Barack Obama."

Moore has been a frequent guest on Piers Morgan's show in recent months an outspoken advocate of the Occupy movement. In October, Morgan hosted a town hall with Moore and a live studio audience, centered around the "99 percent's" economic challenges.



At least they're getting closer to the problem.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:57 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Have you said anything worthwhile in the last 5 years?

Or have you just settled fully into your Neo-Con clown role?


Two choices that both allow you to dismiss rather then debate.

Your first option supposes that I have said nothing worthwhile. This is clearly not the case, yet you make the assetion because you are unable or unwilling to tolerate speech you don't agree with or ideas that are not shared by you. It is the absolute height of intolerance and contrary to the very foundations of our Democracy. Debate with those who disagree serve a vital function, if for no other reason then it allows you to flesh out and provide substantive reinforcement of your own position.

Your second option allows you to dismiss ideas you don't agree with by the application of labels. These labels are constructs of your own ideology to group together a class of persons you don't agree with and collectively dismiss their contributions.

Taken together your mindset is a part of the dangerous pattern of the modern left to eliminate political opposition rather then seeking to win the debate. It comes from the simple fact that after the collapse of socialism, your ideas simply do not work. You can argue this or that specific policy, but you know that ultimately your stance on nearly every issue will either fail to achieve political success because you cannot rally the support you need to enact it or...should you enact such policies they will fail because of the systemic flaws in the liberal approach to nearly every issue.

This is also a fundamental difference in the nature of the Tea Part Movement and the Occupy Wall Street Protests. One seeks to enage in a debate and then win that debate at the ballot box. The other seeks to eliminate the debate and force conformity their agenda. This is why we see many Tea Party candidates running for everything from President to Dog Catcher but the OWS will not have candidates of their own. They want to dictate the results, not engage in the process.

Would you like to respond? I'm sure you are capable of more name calling once the higher brain functions fail to kick in...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 12:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Wow.

Such a reasoned, well thought out, and smartly presented reply, Hero.

Too bad it'll be wasted on this bunch.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 1:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

This is also a fundamental difference in the nature of the Tea Part Movement and the Occupy Wall Street Protests. One seeks to enage in a debate and then win that debate at the ballot box. The other seeks to eliminate the debate and force conformity their agenda. This is why we see many Tea Party candidates running for everything from President to Dog Catcher but the OWS will not have candidates of their own. They want to dictate the results, not engage in the process.
Despite your definitely well-spoken post, and even the good points made, this shows either your ignorance or your deliberate blindness.

The Tea Party put people in office by believing what they promised, and now is aghast to see how they were manipulated and taken, because those the voted into power are doing FAR more harm to this country than good. One small example; for all their talk of creating jobs, the Tea Party candidates, national and statewide, have gotten rid of jobs and ENHANCED the unemployment numbers, while not "creating" a single job. That's what's wrong with the Tea Party (and I mean the current one; the original is a whole different story). They liked what they heard, approve of people because they were manipulated, and we're all now paying the price. Most of them are good people, they just got took.

You know absolutely nothing of Occupy, yet your partisan blinders make it possible for you to damn the Occupy movement without even knowing what it's about, or many facts. Just like Raptor, you fling words around like "eliminate debate", "force conformity" and "dictate results" without knowing what the fuck you're talking about. Would be nice if it were possible to communicate with you, because you wrote the rest of that post quite well, but your obvious intention is to be as nasty as possible about Occupy, without even bothering to find out the facts!

One can be partisan without being blind; that's the thing I hate about you, Raptor, Wulf, etc. We all KNOW that if something was originally proposed by Republicans, and the Democrats and Obama agreed and put it forward, immediately it would be anathema to you. We have plenty of examples of that already happening! Your world is completely incapable of anything but black and white:

Tea Party: Everything good.
Occupy: Everything bad.

As far as I'm concerned, we have things in common with the Tea Partiers--the PEOPLE, not those who financed it and made the pretty little show to gain power. We HAVE THREE avid Tea Partiers in our OccupyMarin group, and two of them hold signs, one saying "The Tea Party belongs here too".

What amazes me is how you guys can't see the obvious: How many times have you, Raptor, Geezer and/or Wulf talked about wiping out those here who disagree with you, called them names, blamed them for everything under the sun without once considering what they say? How does that square with "you are unable or unwilling to tolerate speech you don't agree with or ideas that are not shared by you"? And usually done it as nastily aspossible?

"These labels are constructs of your own ideology to group together a class of persons you don't agree with and collectively dismiss their contributions. " Good gawd in heaven, Hero, how can you NOT see how much this applies to the righties here, yourself among them? You JUST lumped all of the Occupy Movement into one group. The Tea Party into another, and collectively assigned them good and bad attributes; the Tea Party can only be good in your mind, Occupy can only be bad, there's no in between.

Sadly, for all your use of good English and fancy words, all you did was call the kettle black, spout deliberately blind partisanship, and end with a nasty snark. You just proved yourself not one iota better than those whom you condemn.

This thread was stated about K Street, which has harmed US ALL and which all of us should applaud someone taking on. Doesn't matter if it's Occupy or the Tea Party, someone needs to stand up and scream to the heavens what goes on behind closed doors there. But I'm pretty sure you and your buddies will actually DEFEND it, because it has some ties to Republicans. It HAS a few Dems in there, you know, and I condemn them with all my heart. How sad that you cannot see it too.



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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 1:32 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
They want to dictate the results, not engage in the process.

The old process doesn't work. They are trying to fix the process.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 1:42 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Re: the Tea Party and how it turned out. Back in August:
Quote:

Almost half of Republicans polled said they aren’t happy with their party leaders’ job performances, with approval dropping 23 points since January to just 46 percent. And voters who associate with the tea party hold an even more dismal view of their House and Senate leaders — only 37 percent of tea partiers approve of the way GOP honchos on the Hill are doing their jobs.

And as the Tea Party has become more well known, voters have begun viewing the movement much more negatively, the study also showed.

Slightly less than half of those surveyed — 43 percent — have an unfavorable of the Tea Party. Back in Feb. 2010, just 25 percent saw the movement negatively.
.....
As Republican leadership has increasingly incorporated Tea Partiers in Congress, that emphasis on conviction has been painted as arbitrary stubbornness and that outsider status has been portrayed as dangerous ignorance. http://hotair.com/archives/2011/08/25/poll-tea-partiers-disappointed-i
n-hill-leaders/
Tea Party lost its way:
Quote:

Hate is a mental disorder. Hate is a form of insanity. The problem is that the Tea Party followers were so riled up by hate fomented by Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Right Wing Talk Radio, FoxNews, and others in the Right Wing Echo chamber, they were unable to see that they were voting not only against their own economic interest but their families' interest, and the country's interest. http://ezinearticles.com/?Disappointed-Tea-Party-Followers-Likely-Help
-Democrats-In-2012&id=5385229
what those leading the Tea Party did; they played on frustration, anger and hate, and their followers are paying the price.

Certainly not all of them, and maybe not even the majority, but the extremes brought into politics by the Tea Party, as it was directed the past few years, has alienated moderates and even many who have voted Republican for ages. The same may be true of Occupy, time will tell, it's still in its infancy and will be for a long time to come. So to laud the results of the Tea Pary's rise to power and denigrate Occupy, which hasn't even BEGUN to gain power (if it ever will), is deliberately blind partisanship, nothing else, in my opinion.
Quote:

The old process doesn't work. They are trying to fix the process.
Bingo CTS. Because Occupy doesn't play by the existing rules, we're condemned. Rarely is it noticed that the existing rules DON'T WORK; the Tea Pary played by them and suffered the results. TPTB on all sides have learned how to manipulate the "rules" to their own advantage, so how does playing by their rules accomplish anything? The process doesn't just not work, it's bought and paid for, totally broken and won't work to make any major changes which will improve the situation. If we're ever to make headway, we need to evolve in how we confront the wrongs in our society.


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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 2:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Wow.

Such a reasoned, well thought out, and smartly presented reply, Hero.




Good thing you didn't say "properly spelled" or "grammatically correct" in your brown-nosed response, because that would have made it truly hilarious.

Almost as hilarious as "Hero" taking cracks at anyone over their spelling mistakes. Remember, this is the guy who can't spell "intelligent".

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 2:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Have you said anything worthwhile in the last 5 years?

Or have you just settled fully into your Neo-Con clown role?


Two choices that both allow you to dismiss rather then debate.

Your first option supposes that I have said nothing worthwhile. This is clearly not the case, yet you make the assetion because you are unable or unwilling to tolerate speech you don't agree with or ideas that are not shared by you. It is the absolute height of intolerance and contrary to the very foundations of our Democracy. Debate with those who disagree serve a vital function, if for no other reason then it allows you to flesh out and provide substantive reinforcement of your own position.

Your second option allows you to dismiss ideas you don't agree with by the application of labels. These labels are constructs of your own ideology to group together a class of persons you don't agree with and collectively dismiss their contributions.



You mean labels like "sing-along", "hippie", "liberal", "mob", and the like?

Quote:


Taken together your mindset is a part of the dangerous pattern of the modern left to eliminate political opposition rather then seeking to win the debate. It comes from the simple fact that after the collapse of socialism, your ideas simply do not work. You can argue this or that specific policy, but you know that ultimately your stance on nearly every issue will either fail to achieve political success because you cannot rally the support you need to enact it or...should you enact such policies they will fail because of the systemic flaws in the liberal approach to nearly every issue.

This is also a fundamental difference in the nature of the Tea Part Movement and the Occupy Wall Street Protests. One seeks to enage in a debate and then win that debate at the ballot box. The other seeks to eliminate the debate and force conformity their agenda. This is why we see many Tea Party candidates running for everything from President to Dog Catcher but the OWS will not have candidates of their own. They want to dictate the results, not engage in the process.



Name me one single "Tea Party" candidate. Show us all ONE candidate who ran and won registered as a candidate for the Tea Party.

The Tea Party has not put up a single candidate, because they refuse to register as a political party. As such, they are exactly as effective as the OWS movement at participating in the process.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 2:17 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


This entire thread got thread-jacked with the very first response. Is nobody interested in discussing K Street and how it relates to ALL of us? Does anyone actually know what K Street is? This isn't about Occupy per se, nor about Dems or Repubs specifically, it's about the power of a few behind the scenes and what they have wrought which affects us all.

Or not. We can go on squabbling, as usual.



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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 3:40 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Well I think its a good idea to protest in DC because the government is what allows corporations to behave the way that has caused all this trouble. When Occupy started the first words out of my dad's mouth were "Why aren't they in DC protesting the government's role in all the bailouts etc.?" I agree, its about time, I wish them well.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 4:10 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

The old process doesn't work. They are trying to fix the process.


That's a losers argument and a childish one.

"Mom! He cheated!" OWS is mad that they can't win, now they want to take their ball and go home...only the ball does not belong to them, it belongs to their rich talented neighbor who practices his shooting two hours every night because he wants to get in the game because he is the better player and not just because coach wants everybody to get a turn.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh I am well aware, Niki - although had I any say they'd be camping the homes, rather than the offices, of the bastards who've brought us to this impasse.

As for the propaganda shills, well others can debate all they like, but in regards to the GOP, based on their conduct, their policies, their intolerence - to the point where them fascist fucks would destroy all rather than see it in any hands but their own...

I am Done. Talking.

They've made it absolutely, abundantly clear that their ideology cannot survive in the presence of any other alternative whatsoever (thus admitting it's a complete, self-destructive failure) and as such would condemn us all by obliterating any other option, which prettymuch leaves only one real choice...

Us or Them.

And if that's how it's gonna be ?
Well then, we can go there.
Not one inch, not now, not ever.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:33 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Per the stuff I've seen on the local news outlets, who are pretty adept at covering demonstrations from long experience, the majority of folks who are here are more the usual D.C. demonstration, and a bit different than the Occupy folks.

Their protests are generally themed around job creation, so thay have a pretty specific goal - although they've co-opted some of the 99% rhetoric.

They obtained permits for their marches and the informational tents they've set up on the Mall, and are staying in local churches rather than camping on the Mall.

Their civil dosobedience is much more orderly, with folks arrested walking to transportation rather than fighting arrest.

All in all looks like folks who've been here before and know how to hold a protest. Maybe the Occupy folks will learn something from them.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, December 8, 2011 6:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I disagree, Geezer:
Quote:

Protesters from around the country occupied K Street this afternoon, including dozens of Minnesotans.

The demonstration was the combined effort of numerous groups joining up with OccupyDC to send a message against corporate money in politics. K Street is home to America's most powerful lobbying firms. http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/12/occupy_protesters_k_street.
php
Occupy movement is both bringing media attention to things other groups have had little or no success with and increasing the numbers of those groups' protests. It's not about OccupyWallStreet, if you note, it's OccupyDC, a local group just like us, and each local group decides on "actions" they wish to take. That's a large part of the reason other groups have joined them in actions such as this, and I think it's great that Occupy is being effective in bringing the issue of other groups to the nation's attention.
Quote:

More than five dozen protesters upset about what they call corporate greed and the excessive influence of money in politics were arrested Wednesday after shutting down K Street, home to many of Washington's lobbying firms, in a mass demonstration that snarled midday traffic in the nation's capital.
.....
Demonstrators from across the U.S. converged for the Washington march that included participants from Occupy Wall Street encampments as well as other groups, including unions, sympathetic to their message of income inequality.

Organizers said they expected several thousand people in Washington this week for days of activism
.....
Earlier, 11 protesters affiliated with the American Dream Movement, which advocates for the working class, were arrested and charged with obstructing a public highway. Later Wednesday, about a dozen more were arrested at the Supreme Court. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57339058/occupy-d.c-targets-lobbyi
sts-offices
/

Quote:

Borrowing language from the Occupy movement and drawing demonstrators "from Occupy sites from coast to coast," the movement says its goal is to affect congressional legislation.
Ergo, apparently it is not just the Occupy people who are practicing civil disobedience, and being arrested.

I think it's great they're finally getting around to DC, which is where they should be, and I think it's great they're getting press for other groups--AND that the other groups are being reported, the MSM isn't just claiming it's all Occupy protesters.
Quote:

Scores of activists converged on the office of Senator Scott Brown today to protest his inability, they said, to deliver jobs to Massachusetts as promised.

The demonstrators crammed into Brown’s office in the late morning, some plunking themselves into chairs and couches, to ask for a meeting with the Republican Senator.

The Bay State group of about 250 people, many of them unemployed, arrived in Washington Monday night aboard five buses, according to Jason Stephany, the spokesman for MassUniting, which bills itself as “a coalition of neighbors, community groups, faith organizations and labor united in the fight for good jobs, corporate accountability, and stronger communities.”

“We asked for a meeting with the Senator Brown,” said Jay Chambers, 38, an unemployed iron worker from Charlestown. “I had a question for him: Where are the jobs he campaigned for?” “Among the senator’s top priorities is job creation,” and he will continue to “work with good will” to pass job-creating legislation, Kinzel said in the hallway outside Brown’s office.

The visit to Washington by the Massachusetts activists is part of a nationwide effort this week to bring attention to the unemployed, said Stephany, noting that groups from 46 states fanned out across Capitol offices. http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2011/12/activists-o
ccupy-senator-brown-office/QtsJth48lSlpwr5xEumfTO/index.html
again, it's not just Occupy, and the other groups are engaging in civil disobedience as well. It's a coordinated effort which hit numerous legislators' offices. Some legislators are "getting it", that all they want is to talk to them. Others, not so much.
Quote:

From all accounts, only four of about forty targeted Republicans bothered to show their faces to their constituents. For example, a couple of floors down, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin pinned a note out front declaring appointments only, and then locked his door.
Quote:

The Occupy Wall Street movement took its rage from the grounds of city parks to Capitol Hill Tuesday, sitting in outs multiple legislators’ offices including the office of Missouri U.S. Rep. Vicky Hartzler, R.Harrisonville
Quote:

Groups from different states went to lawmakers' offices Tuesday.

About a dozen people were conducting what they called a sit-in outside the office of House Speaker John Boehner. One of them, John Reat from Ohio -- the state Boehner represents -- told CNN, "I've been unemployed for 24 months, and that's why I'm here. And we're not leaving until we talk to the speaker, or they close the building, whichever comes first."

One group of protesters said they planned to conduct a sit-in at the office of Sen. Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Republican whip. About 20 people went to Kyl's office saying they wanted a forum to be heard. "All of Arizona is in the dark. We don't know what he's thinking," one said. "We'll stay until he hears us."

That group also went to a conference room outside the office of another Maryland Democrat, Rep. Steny Hoyer, and spoke to his aides. http://www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/440-occupy/8771-prote
sters-wage-sit-ins-at-congressional-offices-in-dc
]
Quote:

Rep. Greg Walden, R-Ore., met with a group of about two dozen Occupy protesters at his office in the nation’s capital Tuesday, the day after 14 demonstrators were arrested at his Bend and Medford offices for refusing to leave as they demanded a series of town halls in the 2nd Congressional District.
Quote:

About 25 people visited the office of Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Maryland. He spoke to the group outside his office and told them he sympathizes with the unemployed.
Quote:

When we arrived at Reichert's office things didn't look very hopeful. Reichert was out, and not expected back, his receptionist told us, and besides, he had a very, very busy schedule. We were welcome to make an appointment with his scheduler if we wanted. To be clear: to make an appointment to make an appointment. Or, if we really wanted to wait around in hope of catching the congressmen, we were welcome to wait outside in the hall. No thank you, we replied. We'd wait right here inside his office. And so folks crowded in and found a spot to sit or stand where they could.

And then, after about half an hour of folks telling their stories of economic displacement to each other, Reichert actually shows up and talks. And talks. And talks, and talks, and talks. For a guy who was sooooo busy, you sure wouldn't know it. I've got about an hour of video of Reichert talking, with a little bit of him listening thrown in. The guy's got stamina. He lasted longer than my camcorder battery.

It's not like Reichert said anything much of, but, well, at least he showed up. Which is a helluva lot more than can be said of most of his colleagues.

Sorry, but your attempt to say these are different from the Occupy movement and their "civil dosobedience is much more orderly". Occupy is a large part of it, in coordination with other groups, and other groups' civil disobedience has been the same, with people being arrested, etc. And Occupy is using the same tactics as these other groups:
Quote:

On Tuesday, Occupy DC protesters sat outside the offices of House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
I recognize your need to paint Occupy as violent and undisciplined, as compared to more "orderly" groups, but I'm afraid you're wrong; they're all working together and all using some of the same tactics.



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Thursday, December 8, 2011 7:45 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The Occupy movement is both bringing media attention to things other groups have had little or no success with and increasing the numbers of those groups' protests. It's not about OccupyWallStreet, if you note, it's OccupyDC, a local group just like us, and each local group decides on "actions" they wish to take. That's a large part of the reason other groups have joined them in actions such as this, and I think it's great that Occupy is being effective in bringing the issue of other groups to the nation's attention.



To get the permits these demonstrations needed, including permission to set up on the Mall, I'd guess that this protest was organized at about the same time, or more likely prior to, the Occupy DC encampment's creation. These are mostly unions and long-standing community action groups who've been doing this (demonstrating in DC) for some time. If anything, the Occupy folks are piggybacking off their demonstrations.

Quote:

Ergo, apparently it is not just the Occupy people who are practicing civil disobedience, and being arrested.


Yep. That's what I said.

Quote:

...the MSM isn't just claiming it's all Occupy protesters.


Yep.that's what I said.


Quote:

I recognize your need to paint Occupy as violent and undisciplined, as compared to more "orderly" groups, but I'm afraid you're wrong; they're all working together and all using some of the same tactics.


No. I'm just thinking they're sort'a naive, and could use some schooling from folks who've been doing this for years and have actually accomplished stuff.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, December 8, 2011 11:09 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
to the point where them fascist fucks would destroy all rather than see it in any hands but their own...

I am Done. Talking.

They've made it absolutely, abundantly clear that their ideology cannot survive in the presence of any other alternative whatsoever...which prettymuch leaves only one real choice...

Us or Them.


You've made my argument for me.

"Us or Them". I note for the record that is in fact two choices. You have made one for yourself and now would deny that right to everyone else.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, December 8, 2011 11:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Would be appreciated if you could list some of the "stuff" these other groups have accomplished. I think you should direct your negativity toward those other groups, who as far as I've seen, are very glad to have the Occupy people with them. How much national publicity have these groups obtained by their efforts? How much are they getting NOW?

The Occupy movement has united people all across the nation, of every race, creed, age and station in life.
Quote:

“K Street is the place to be if you’re going to stop the moneybags who are corrupting our government,” said Jim Sessions, 75, a Methodist minister from Tennessee who was arrested Wednesday.
Quote:

“Getting arrested will make people think: ‘These people care enough to be arrested? This must matter,’ ” said Natalie Atwater, 20, of Austin.
Both from WaPo. To call us all by derrogatory terms which may only apply to a few, or to NONE, is telling.



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Thursday, December 8, 2011 12:03 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
OWS is mad that they can't win



Your right they can't win...that the whole point. No matter how hard they work, or for how many hours they can't win because the rules.

If it is damn easy why is it that families that once could survive on a single income and get ahead, now require two just to stay afloat?


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, December 8, 2011 12:08 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I think its great that these groups are working together for common goals, good for them,

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, December 8, 2011 12:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
OWS is mad that they can't win



Your right they can't win...that the whole point. No matter how hard they work, or for how many hours they can't win because the rules.

If it is damn easy why is it that families that once could survive on a single income and get ahead, now require two just to stay afloat?



They don't want to work. They want things GIVEN to them, and that's the problem. They've bought into the lies that their union bosses and govt employers told them. And now they're seeing how out of sync their bogus life styles are w/ the REAL world, it infuriates them that they aren't living in a world they were told existed.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Friday, December 9, 2011 3:20 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Would be appreciated if you could list some of the "stuff" these other groups have accomplished.



http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/12/03-1

"Sponsoring organizations for "Take Back the Capitol" include Rebuild the Dream, the Center for Community Change, USAction, Interfaith Worker Justice, Faith in Life, MoveOn.org, the Service Employees International Union and the AFL-CIO."

Well, what MoveOn.org and the AFL-CIO have accomplished is pretty obvious. Many of the others have been involved in advocacy for years with a good bit of success, as a quick google will show. Center for Community Change has been around for over 40 years.

Also:

"Representatives from 15 Occupy protests from around the country will also take part, Borosage said, but the local Occupy DC isn't a sponsor, said Legba Carrefour, a spokesman for the group."

Quote:

How much national publicity have these groups obtained by their efforts? How much are they getting NOW?


Aside from the Common Dreams article above, they're getting very little. Most of the MSM is focused almost entirely on Occupy. On the local news here, which has pretty extensive coverage, Occupy is about the only name mentioned, along with "other groups".

Quote:

The Occupy movement has united people all across the nation, of every race, creed, age and station in life.


So have the groups listed above, and for much longer and with more result.

Quote:

To call us all by derrogatory terms which may only apply to a few, or to NONE, is telling.


I've criticized Occupy for being unfocused and naive, but derogatory terms? I don't think so.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, December 9, 2011 7:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Aside from the Common Dreams article above, they're getting very little
And yet every article I called up to respond to your post listed other groups--I posted a couple of them, the rest were duplicative. So they're getting press, and while I believe they would have gotten attention whether Occupy was there or not, will you concede that they got MORE because of their presence? All the article I found listed other groups.

As to
Quote:

for much longer and with more result
Occupy has been around for, what, less than four months? Isn't it a bit early to be making that determination? Of COURSE the other groups have been around longer, how could it possibly be otherwise? I might ask what the other groups accomplished in their first four months of existence, but that shouldn't even need saying. I'm quite willing to accept that some of the other groups have accomplished things and won't ask you to enumerate specifics, which is what I asked, and I'm glad those organizations have made headway wherever the could.

Yes, perhaps your terms haven't been derogatory; I sometimes confuse people and your negative feelings about Occupy might be what I'm talking about, I'm not going to search back to find out. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But it's quite obvious you have nothing but negative things to say about them and their efforts. It is that which I was addressing.

I also never said Occupy was a sponsor, merely that other groups joined with them, and I believe the publicity was enhanced by their being there. At this point, Occupy is doing just that: Bringing attention to the things that are wrong. That is their only goal at this time.

I think they also brought some attention by going to legislators' offices. Again, it obviously accomplished nothing but to show that the vast majority of legislators wouldn't even talk to them, but it did that much, and they DID talk to a few. I believe that was Occupy's action alone.



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Friday, December 9, 2011 8:53 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
And yet every article I called up to respond to your post listed other groups--I posted a couple of them, the rest were duplicative. So they're getting press, and while I believe they would have gotten attention whether Occupy was there or not, will you concede that they got MORE because of their presence? All the article I found listed other groups.



The only article you posted from the MSM was from CBS news. its title? "Occupy D.C. targets lobbyists' offices". The only mention of another group by name is down in the seventh paragraph.

Quote:

As to
Quote:

for much longer and with more result...



This was in response to your rather dismissive "Would be appreciated if you could list some of the "stuff" these other groups have accomplished." The Occupy movement may be the 'flavor of the week' but a lot of the other organizations involved have been promoting social change and doing good work longer than many Occupy folks have been alive.

Quote:

Yes, perhaps your terms haven't been derogatory; I sometimes confuse people and your negative feelings about Occupy might be what I'm talking about, I'm not going to search back to find out. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But it's quite obvious you have nothing but negative things to say about them and their efforts. It is that which I was addressing.


I'm pointing out what I consider their mistakes. I don't think that, on their current course, they're gonna accomplish much.

Quote:

I also never said Occupy was a sponsor, merely that other groups joined with them...

From what I've seen, the 'other groups' had a lot more folks participating than Occupy D.C. did (or all the Occupy folks there as a whole). Seemed to me Occupy "joined" them, then snagged the majority of the coverage.

Quote:

I think they also brought some attention by going to legislators' offices. Again, it obviously accomplished nothing but to show that the vast majority of legislators wouldn't even talk to them, but it did that much, and they DID talk to a few. I believe that was Occupy's action alone.


One of the articles you cite earlier says
Quote:


The Bay State group of about 250 people, many of them unemployed, arrived in Washington Monday night aboard five buses, according to Jason Stephany, the spokesman for MassUniting, which bills itself as “a coalition of neighbors, community groups, faith organizations and labor united in the fight for good jobs, corporate accountability, and stronger communities.”

“We asked for a meeting with the Senator Brown,” said Jay Chambers, 38, an unemployed iron worker from Charlestown. “I had a question for him: Where are the jobs he campaigned for?”



So that's not Occupy. Some other articles don't specify a group, but considering that there were a lot more folks involved than just Occupy, I'd suspect they were from several organizations.

I understand that Occupy is the "next big thing" in the social action world. Just don't see it going anywhere much with its current program.

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Friday, December 9, 2011 10:05 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Good thing you didn't say "properly spelled" or "grammatically correct" in your brown-nosed response, because that would have made it truly hilarious.



Give the poor lad some slack. No one ever takes him even remotely seriosuly, so of course he will latch onto the one other who is as devout as he.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 9, 2011 10:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

They don't want to work. They want things GIVEN to them, and that's the problem. They've bought into the lies that their union bosses and govt employers told them. And now they're seeing how out of sync their bogus life styles are w/ the REAL world, it infuriates them that they aren't living in a world they were told existed.




Your degree of "not getting it" is amazing. Expected, but still amazing.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 9, 2011 11:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer: I didn't post everything I found, as much of it was duplicative:
Quote:

Progressive Maryland, a nonprofit organization that says it works to improve conditions for working families. http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-06/us/us_occupy-congress_1_protests-mc
pherson-square-movement-and-other-groups?_s=PM:US
Tuesday, with about 15 other activists from the Los Angeles nonprofit Good Jobs LA and an allied group from New York, she showed up around 12:30 p.m. at the Washington office of Rep. Elton Gallegly, R-Calif., who represents Ventura County, where Miller lives
.....
“We’re standing in solidarity because … this is something that crosses state lines, something that affects all of us,” said Cara Noel, an activist who joined from United New York, a nonprofit that aids working-class people. . http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/06/9255645-activists-show-up
-to-retake-congress

Ooops, I see you said MSM. I haven't got time to look them all up, but I freely grant you that OWS got more mention than others. I don't think they "snagged" the publicity however, it's not up to them who covers what.

And no, the occupying of legislators' offices wasn't an Occupy movement alone...I read that somewhere but I'm not going to go hunting for it. It wasn't the group you mentioned, but it was some other group, not Occupy, who set it up.

I understand what you think of us, and respect your right to your opinion. You may be right, I can't know until we see how it goes. I'm willing to stand with them; it's the only thing I think worth doing, aside from the donations I make to other organizations.



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Friday, December 9, 2011 1:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
You've made my argument for me.

"Us or Them". I note for the record that is in fact two choices. You have made one for yourself and now would deny that right to everyone else.


Wasn't my choice - imma live n let live kinda guy, and *MY* ideology has no problem with co-existence.
So it ain't me you gotta convince.

That said, you and me now, that's something outside of politics, you bein a Lawful Neutral/Evil Prosecutor and me bein a Chaotic Neutral Anarchist, well....



-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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