REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Billionaires with 1% tax rates

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, December 12, 2011 09:19
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Wednesday, December 7, 2011 8:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Here are some of the facts behind the President's claim that some of the wealthiest in America pay far less in federal taxes as a percentage of their income than many lower down the income scale: In 2006 roughly 25% of those with adjusted gross incomes over $1 million paid a smaller portion of their income in federal taxes -- income, payroll and corporate -- than 10% of those with AGIs below $100,000, according to a recent study from the Congressional Research Service.

Buffett rule could hit 25% of the very rich

As for the president's assertion that some billionaires have a tax rate as low as 1%, Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, said that it's definitely possible but hard to verify.

"Billionaires are still rare enough that we cannot get data for them without running afoul of privacy rules," he said.

But for a lot of reasons, Chris Bergin, president and publisher of Tax Analysts, said, "It is certainly not implausible."

Last year, 4,000 households with incomes over a million dollars owed no federal income tax whatsoever, according to Tax Policy Center estimates.

What's more, of the top 400 federal tax returns with the highest adjusted gross incomes in 2008, 30 had an effective tax rate of less than 10%, noted Mark Luscombe, the principal federal tax analyst at CCH.

A big reason is that a large percentage of wealthy Americans' income comes from investments, which are often taxed at lower rates than ordinary wages and salaries.

What's more, some perfectly legal tax code provisions allow taxpayers to reduce their investment tax bills even further.

Bush tax cuts: The real end game

Of course, the wealthy aren't the only ones who enjoy what Obama refers to as "loopholes and shelters." Anyone who deducts their mortgage interest, saves money for retirement, realizes a capital gain or loss, or gets health insurance from their employer is enjoying a tax break.

The difference is that the rich use a broader array of tax-preferred investments, such as partnerships. Or they may invest in dividend-paying foreign stocks and can claim a foreign tax credit for the tax withheld from them by the foreign government.

Typically, too, the wealthiest are more likely to be retired or self-employed and are in a position to make big charitable contributions -- all of which come with distinct tax advantages.

And the wealthy can afford to be more risk-averse and park a lot of money in bonds, often tax-free. More at http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/07/news/economy/obama_taxes/index.htm?iid
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Sunday, December 11, 2011 7:39 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


I figured PolitiFact would look into this eventually.



Quote:

Our ruling

Stone’s remark that "sometimes (billionaires) even have a tax rate as low as 1 percent" may be an acceptable shorthand for cable television chatter, but as a linchpin statistic in a major policy address by the president, the claim falls short.

The best publicly available data, the IRS 400, suggests that it’s possible that some billionaires pay an effective tax rate of 1 percent or less. But this data doesn’t confirm it. In addition, the IRS 400 is made up primarily of people with less than $1 billion in annual income, and provides no information about whether a tax filer on the list has $1 billion in wealth.

Despite this, Obama made it sound like a certainty that "some billionaires have a tax rate as low as 1 percent." He would have been on safe ground if he’d noted that more than half the filers on the IRS 400 list had an effective tax rate of 20 percent or less. Obama did not have to gild the lily with a statistic this weak. If he wasn’t able to back it up with hard statistics, he shouldn't have said it.

Because of that same uncertainty, we can't rule out that there isn't a billionaire out there who has a tax rate as low as 1 percent, but we haven't been able to find any evidence that there is. If the White House or anyone else produces evidence that it's true, we'd be open to changing our ruling, but based on what we know, we rule it Mostly False.




http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/08/barack-
obama/barack-obama-says-some-billionaires-have-tax-rate
-/

(you'll have to modify the link after clicking to include the -/ on the end.)

The Washington Post Fact Checker also gave this comment three Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-kansas-sp
eech-some-suspect-facts/2011/12/06/gIQAUU45aO_blog.html



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 12, 2011 9:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

made it sound like a certainty
Gee, I've never known a politician to do this...it's shocking!

Some information on this:



Then, from a commentator on this sitaution, there's:
Quote:

There is no 1% rate but by the time all legal and lawful deductions are taken, the net effective rate "for some billionaires" might be 1%.

But then saying "some billionaires" pay 1% would suggest that not all billionaires pay 1% just as not all of us here pay the same net effective rate after deductions (again lawful and legal) are included.

And let's put our thinking caps on here, no billionaire effectively pays taxes anyway. The money for what taxes he/she might pay comes from those who consume products or the services provided on which the wealth was built to begin with. If no service or product is bought, no income is derived and thus no taxes would be due. Therein lay the problem in "taxing the rich" because the cost of the tax will be passed down and embedded in the costs of goods and services and thus the reason folks like Buffet can keep a straight face when they say that the rich should pay more in taxes. Buffet knows the very system he supports and the one that the statist idiots out there think will re-balance the economic scales is in fact the one system that has created the so-called 1% to begin with and the 1% will only grow in power and wealth as you morons on both sides continue to feed it!

In the meantime, the rich or 1% that so many of you defend are milking the entire system dry with subsidy, special tax law or other forms of gov't cheese and all the while you run around like chicken little screaming high treason because some low rent welfare recipient managed to somehow squeeze the pot for a few extra dollars. True but stop being a hypocrite and see the system both ways and for what it really is! http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f13/some-billionaires-pay-tax-1-rate-34
1596/
for some reality:
Quote:

New tax data from the Internal Revenue service shows that in 2009, incomes fell, unemployment claims rose, and the U.S. economy shed nearly two million taxpayers.

And of the 235,413 taxpayers who earned $1 million or more in 2009, 1,470 of them paid no taxes.

The numbers, part of a package analyzing 2009 tax returns that the IRS has just made available, reflect a grim picture of the recent past.

Details at http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09inalcr.pdf

I think that's quite shocking enough, without exaggerating the situation. But then, we know politicians NEVER exaggerate things to make their point...



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