Why are Indian reservations so poor by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Why are Indian reservations so poor

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Sunday, December 18, 2011 19:22
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VIEWED: 4823
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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 3:59 PM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoppisch/2011/12/13/why-are-indian-res
ervations-so-poor-a-look-at-the-bottom-1/

I felt a lot of bias in this article. I wanted to shout, "Don't get warped by Forbes magazine. Stay true to your traditions!"

But on the other hand, I couldn't think of reasonable alternatives to corruption as usual.

Anyone?

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 4:27 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Reservations should have been granted sovereign nation status. They continue to suffer the echoes of the past. What is theirs is not theirs. And now, if what is theirs is given to them, there are powers within their borders who would exploit them.

They continue to pay the price for our invasion. I see no way to help them, but they should definitely own what they've been 'given.'

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 5:30 AM

BYTEMITE

Well, I'm going to start off on my usual knee-jerk reaction before I read the article, but...

I'd say there are probably a number of factors. First of all, I think most Indian reservations were located and then adjusted by the U.S. government to ensure that there were no useful resources on any of them. Even the dirt tends to be bad for farming. Then, they tried to force European lifestyles, values, and economic system on them when all are incompatible with their cultural lifestyle, economic system, and upbringing.

Bring all that to the current time, when there are still lingering cultural incompatabilities with the mainstream. Not too long ago they were unfairly targeted to have their children taken away from them, and children of the tribes simply aren't recognized if they aren't 1/4 blood, 1/2 blood, or sometimes even pure blood, as a reaction against the European bloodlines that done them wrong (deliberately restricting their own numbers and marginalizing themselves).

There might very well be actual corruption at the level of the tribal leadership, as well, but the other stuff pretty much covers the why by itself.

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Goodness, by now I thought everyone knew the reasons. Didn't read the article, but haven't we all known for ages about how they were pushed and pushed again into the least arable land--basically any land the Whites didn't want? Then left with few, if any, resources. Their kids were farmed out to White schools, so lost their heritage for the most part, and were shown how Whites live, so HAD to be depressed when they were stuck back on the rez. The corruption of the department that handles Indian affairs has been documented over and over again. We hear the stories of corruption by leaders of the tribes, too--how those gambling establishments' profits sometimes go to the leaders and little trickles down to the rest of them. Suppose I should read the article, but even I knew all those. Wikipedia has an excellent article on the reasons, as well. Forbes doesn't need to twist anything or lie about anything, just read the Wiki article on "reservation poverty".

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 9:05 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree with Byte and Niki about the factors involved. This is a question that a lot of people are afraid to ask out loud though, so its good that there's an article talking about it for those that don't know the answer, there are no dumb questions if you really want to understand how the world works and people shouldn't be afraid to ask. The more pertinant question though is what can be done to improve things.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:25 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
The more pertinant question though is what can be done to improve things.

Right. That is my big question.

This article proposes that they adopt American laws and privatize land.

That feels wrong to me. But I can't propose anything else instead.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think we begin by granting them complete sovereign nation status, give them utter control of their nation, and leave them the heck alone.

That there is a US agency in charge of native american land is an obvious stand-out problem to me.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:12 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I think we begin by granting them complete sovereign nation status, give them utter control of their nation, and leave them the heck alone.

A hole in the USA, like Swaziland and Lesotho?

I'm all for it.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:32 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Indigenous Americans face the same or similiar issues as Indigenous people all over the world, including Australian Aborginal people. They live one foot in and one foot out of a culture they never invited in, never wanted, but which displaced and abused them. When their numbers were decimated and their traditional heirarchies and ways of life were destroyed, they were left on the fringes of a culture that they, no doubt, abhor. Since then they have been abused for not embracing the cultural values of individualism, individual ownership of land, and all the trappings of the free market economy. No wonder they drink.

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 11:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Heh, given em sovereign nation status, and actually HONOR it when they start importing weapons, yeah.

There was a standoff in upstate NY a while back when some developer in collusion with local officials tried to use eminent domain to jack some of their land to put a strip mall on and they weren't having with that - they came out and make an issue, the construction workers threatened them with tools, and they came back with pistols and rifles...
Cops showed up, and by then the "protestors" were armed with assault rifles and grenades, and then THEY called the national guard, at which point some of them held up RPG-7s, and the natty guard commander decided they didn't want a piece of that after all.

Of course, during all this the corruption and collusion came out and the developer fled to the caymans, at which point it was moot, and the natives tore up the concrete and pitched it off their land.

I get on with the native americans about as well as I do the mormons, they hate my guts, but we both hate the other guys even worse...

-F

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Friday, December 16, 2011 2:27 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:

A hole in the USA, like Swaziland and Lesotho?

I've been thinking recently, it's the only thing that will work to kill the image of america, because this imprint is instilled in us as children, the map of the 48 has been instilled in us, and has remained immutable. The thing to go should be either one of the noncontiguous states or a reservation, possibly an inland state, or something really small. Maybe Puerto Rico. It never gets included in the map anyway.

Another thought that I've had to break up this mental image is adding something. If state of Canada joing the union TPTB would work overtime to destroy the old shape in people's minds to encompass the new territory.

Anyway, once you break that sanctity of the union I think that everyone will secede, and it will just be DC with airports in NY and Houston

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, December 16, 2011 3:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Probably the only likely outcome for a people who lived off the land, for 1000's of years, moving where they needed to, as the seasons changed, now confined to a tiny geographically are. Their historical traditions taken from them, they're refugees in their own land.Or, the land they were told to live on.

Obviously, very poor choices were made FOR them, by those far away, and now we're seeing the fruits of that poison tree.

How to fix it ?

No idea.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Friday, December 16, 2011 12:47 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Probably the only likely outcome for a people who lived off the land, for 1000's of years, moving where they needed to, as the seasons changed, now confined to a tiny geographically are. Their historical traditions taken from them, they're refugees in their own land.Or, the land they were told to live on.

Obviously, very poor choices were made FOR them, by those far away, and now we're seeing the fruits of that poison tree.

How to fix it ?

No idea.

We agree. Wow. Merry Christmas.

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Friday, December 16, 2011 12:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
We agree. Wow. Merry Christmas.

Wow indeed.

Happy Solstice

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Friday, December 16, 2011 2:09 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
We agree. Wow. Merry Christmas.

Truly miraculous. (The agreement that is.)

Rap, that was very well said.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Sunday, December 18, 2011 7:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Frem's enemy's enemy is his friend.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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