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Keystone pipeline: How many jobs it would really create

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 10:38
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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 8:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I've learned more from you guys about oil sands, fracking, etc., than I ever knew before. I don't like the idea of this pipeline, on so many different fronts. These are some of them:
Quote:

The Keystone pipeline project is back in play as part of the payroll-tax cut debate, and Congressional Republicans say it would create jobs.

But there's a wide range of estimates, with one forecast that Keystone could actually cost jobs.

The 1,700-mile long pipeline would transport crude oil from Canada's oil sands region in Alberta to refineries along the U.S. Gulf Coast.

The Obama administration pushed back the project last month pending a review from the State Department, but Republicans want to bring it back as a sweetener to approve an extension of the payroll-tax break and federal unemployment insurance. A vote in the House was expected Tuesday.

TransCanda (TRP), the company that wants to build the pipeline, says Keystone would create 20,000 "direct" jobs. That includes 13,000 construction jobs and 7,000 jobs making stuff like pump houses and the pipe itself.

It also projects nearly 120,000 "indirect" jobs -- think restaurant workers and hotel employees to support the construction.

TransCanada spokesman Shawn Howard defends the forecast: "If our budgets and work plans were way off, we'd lack credibility with the markets, shippers and others," he said. "Those who dispute the numbers clearly do not have this experience, have not actually done proper studies on this project to support their claims and can only venture guesses."

But TransCanada numbers count each job on a yearly basis. If the pipeline employs 10,000 people working for two years, that's 20,000 jobs by the company's count.

The estimates also include jobs in Canada, where about a third of the $7 billion pipeline would be constructed.

The U.S. State Department, which must green light the project, forecasts just 5,000 direct U.S. jobs over a two year construction period.

Even according to TransCanada, the amount of permanent jobs created would be only in the hundreds.

"Those are the real numbers," said Susan Casey-Lefkowitz, director of international programs at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "The Republicans have been acting as if this is a national jobs package, and it's not."

Meanwhile, one study from Cornell University said the pipeline could actually lead to a decline in jobs in the long run. One reason is that the pipeline would lead to higher fuel prices in the Midwest, the study said, and that would slow consumer spending and cost jobs.

The study also said jobs could also be lost due to crop failures or other events associated with higher pollution levels the oil sands would bring. And it said more oil would mean a decline in green jobs.

A number of events worked to postpone Keystone's approval, which had been expected with little fanfare.

There was a series of high profile public protests over the summer. And in one major gaffe, the State Department hired a firm with ties to TransCanada to conduct the environmental review. In addition, because the route took the pipeline over a major aquifer in Nebraska, it elicited opposition from even Republicans in that state.

The State Department said last month it would conduct another review and issue a decision after the 2012 election, and Obama has said he will not approve a payroll-tax extension tied to Keystone approval.

Keystone supporters don't just cite jobs.

The expanded pipeline is slated to carry 700,000 barrels of oil a day to U.S. refiners, about 4% of the country's daily consumption of 19 million barrels a day. That oil would technically still be imported, but from politically stable Canada.

Critics say this oil may not stay in the United States, that Canada's oil sands industry is just using the deepwater ports in the United States as means to transport the oil to China or Europe. But TransCanada says that's not true, that it has contracts with only U.S. refiners, not export terminals.

It's also the oil itself that's got environmentalists so concerned -- it's actually the main reason they are against the pipeline.

Oil from the oil sands is dirtier than conventional forms of crude. The oil sands are just that -- oil mixed with sand. To get a usable form of crude, massive amounts of water and energy are used to separate the sand from the oil.

The result is a product that has a total greenhouse gas footprint some 5% to 30% greater than conventional oil.

Extracting the oil sands is also hard on the local environment. They are often mined in huge pits, the size of which are hard to overstate. Vast swaths of forest are cut down, and nearby waterways have been polluted.
It just sounds like bad news all around, to me. And putting it on the payroll tax cut may be business as usual, but I resent it nonetheless, especially as Republicans are trying to use it to say "we want to extend it, Obama wants to up your taxes", which is at the very least misleading, if not an outright lie.


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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 1:13 PM

BYTEMITE


Just another excuse to "lose oil" from somewhere and drive prices up during certain seasons. Like when an oil pipeline near us broke via perfectly round 2 inch (drilled) hole twice in six months.

Freak lightning strike MY ASS.

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 7:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Jezus, what a pisser Byte.

I find it interesting nobody wants to talk about this, given it is THE stumbling block the Republicans stuck in the bill to continue the sales-tax holiday and extend unemployment; their gambit to be able to say "We put forth a workable bipartisan plan, but the DEMS are the ones holding it up." "Dems" because ten Democrats were stupid enough to vote for it (states that would gain from the pipeline, perhaps?). The controversy over the pipeline is important, in my opinion...but that's just me.



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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 8:42 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It seems the projected job creation is temporary. If jobs were the main concern, we should wish that tanker trucks would carry the oil to refineries on dedicated highways. That would employ countless truckers.

I doubt job creation is a true motivating factor on this project.

I don't think this is in our best interests. We need to get the population on alternative energy so that we only need enough oil to operate our war machines, tar roofs, pave roads, and make plastics. Then importing oil would be absolutely unnecessary, because our consumption would be so comparatively small.

In my opinion.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with your opinion, Anthony. In spades.



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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:36 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

It seems the projected job creation is temporary. If jobs were the main concern, we should wish that tanker trucks would carry the oil to refineries on dedicated highways. That would employ countless truckers.


Yeah, the oil industry does not employ anyone in Alaska since they built that pipeline there. Just the trained monkey that turn the knob on to make to oil go.

Jobs? All the extraction jobs, but they're Canadian using equipment that mostly American made. Workers to build the stuff. Numerous refinery and distrubution jobs, maintenence workers and almost all upper middle class skilled workers. Not to mention really long pipes made out of...steel...I wonder if they can find anyone in the US the makes steel and gauges and hardhats and workboots and foodtrucks and funny horns and red flashing lights and signs that say "Keystone Pipeline" and folks to paint the whole thing pink and explain why its not in Pennsylvania and so on and so forth.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:56 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

So you agree the jobs creation is mostly temporary, save a few trained monkeys to turn the knobs. (About 200 of them.)

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:09 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

So you agree the jobs creation is mostly temporary, save a few trained monkeys to turn the knobs. (About 200 of them.)


Yeah, I mean its obvious that nobody works the oil industry. Oil magically moves from below the earth into my car and not one actual living person is involved. Its really quite amazing.

Have you considered all the indirect jobs? I'm not talking about the indirect jobs like the guy making oil gauges or hardhats, those are obvious. I'm talking about the jobs from the oil itself. More oil means lower energy and transportation costs which means reduced prices (both at the pump and on the shelves) which leads to increased commerce thus more jobs.

Obama always talks about saving or creating all sorts of jobs. This creates jobs out of thin air, brings back jobs that were lost, and saves jobs that might be lost. If this was solar panels and windmills he'd be wetting himself with excitement to get this going and be willing to give billions to anyone with a pocketful of magic beans to make it all happen. But its oil...something that actually works, so lets not do that.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


If the US doens't approve of this project, then China is wiling and ready to step in and take Canada's oil.

This is absurd beyond all reason to not move on this . But Barry, he's not interested in doing what's right for the country, as " oil " is against his political agenda. More jobs, a safer,more secure energy line ? Screw it. Barry wants to punish this nation for all its " unfairly gained " success.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:28 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Why do you assume this oil would be coming (and staying) here?

You're falling for that myth of "foreign" and "domestic" oil again. There's no such thing in the global economy. There's only oil and oil.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, Mike. As usual, what's touted BY the right TO the right is missing some vital information. Aside from the fallacy that there is such a thing as "domestic oil", the oil WOULD NOT STAY HERE. According to their OWN PRESENTATION to investors, Jeystone XL is an export pipeline. Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. So most of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks. Oh, and proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free, so we get no money there, either.

As to jobs: TransCanada Corp. claims that Keystone XL “was poised to put 20,000 Americans to work to construct the pipeline.” Right. They count that in “person-years”. In other words, one person, one year; so any estimate needs to be cut by however many years it takes to build in order to figure exactly how many jobs it would supposedly create. So 6,500 people working is counted as 13,000 jobs--FOR TWO YEARS. Originally, TransCanada’s Presidential Permit application for Keystone XL to the State Department indicated “a peak workforce of approximately 3,500 to 4,200 construction personnel” to build the pipeline. According to TransCanada’s own data ( http://plainsjustice.org/files/TCResponse_DiscRqst20_SDLabor.pdf), just 11% of the construction jobs on the Keystone I pipeline in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans–most of them for temporary, low-paying manual labor.

The company also cites another figure — 118,000 spin-off jobs Keystone XL would create through increased business for local restaurants, hotels and suppliers — that comes from a study commissioned by the company ( http://www.transcanada.com/docs/Key_Projects/TransCanada_US_Report_06-
10-10.pdf
) and there are no details as to what those jobs would be, how the figure was calculated, how many would be temporary, and are again calculated on the "person years" formula.

As to the manufacture of the steel, KeystoneXL intends to use steel from the same Indian manufacturer they have used in the past. There goes that one.

Then there's the cost of oil. Hell, in their own presentations to Canadian National Energy Board, officials expressed their declared intent to use the pipeline to raise prices to Americans! By as much as $500 billion a year. "By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans." From THEIR OWN 2008 permit application (the actual document can be found at http://stopbigoilripoffs.com/documents/keystone-xl-pipeline-applicatio
n-section-3-supply-and-markets/at_download/file
):
Quote:

Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in the Midwest by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.


Independent analyses have found this would increase the price of oil in the Midwest by 20 cents a gallon, and could increase the cost to farmers (who spent $12.4 billion in 2009) to $15 billion by 2013. ( http://www.startribune.com/opinion/otherviews/117832183.html)

Then there's safety. A rupture in the Keystone XL pipeline could cause a BP style oil spill in America’s heartland, over the source of fresh drinking water for 2 million people. Keystone XL will cross through the Missouri and Niobrara Rivers, and the Ogallala aquifer. TransCanada predicted that the Keystone I pipeline would see one spill in 7 years, which is bad enough. But in fact, there have been 12 spills in 1 year ( http://watercenter.unl.edu/downloads/2011-Worst-case-Keystone-spills-r
eport.pdf
). The company was ordered to dig up 10 sections of pipe after government-ordered tests indicated that defective steel may have been used. The steel came from that same Indian manufacturer--you know, the one they will use to build Keystone rather than our own manufacturers?

Notice I'm not even going into environmental concerns, greenhouse-gas emissions, or all the other thingsI object to. I'm only addressing the false facts put forth as the reasons to build it: jobs and cost of gas. I'll leave further information to anyone else who wants to address it, because if I started, I wouldn't stop.

Finally, the Energy Deptartment report on KeystoneXL found that decreasing demand through fuel efficiency is the only way to reduce mid-east oil imports with or without the pipeline.



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Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Just another excuse to "lose oil" from somewhere and drive prices up during certain seasons. Like when an oil pipeline near us broke via perfectly round 2 inch (drilled) hole twice in six months.

Freak lightning strike MY ASS.


Ah yes, the inevitable spring petrol "accidents", like that refinery fire which scorched and empty tank, or an empty tanker rolling over and crashing with no injuries - but always sufficient for a big price bump, ehe ?

I take it you've become suspicious as well.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, December 16, 2011 5:47 AM

BYTEMITE


June and December... But kinda clustered around the traditional spring price jack, so potentially close enough. The fact that it happened twice in so close a time frame is very suspicious.

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Friday, December 16, 2011 5:58 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
We need to get the population on alternative energy so that we only need enough oil to operate our war machines, tar roofs, pave roads, and make plastics.

Unfortunately, people rich on oil don't care what we need. They want to protect their multi-billion dollar investments in oil-based infrastructure and technology.

When thinking about social change, one always has to keep in mind this: The thing rich people hate more than anything else is being poor.

Never underestimate what lengths they will go to to keep their wealth and prevent being poor. They will resort to more violence and malfeasance than a poor person would in order to get rich.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Friday, December 16, 2011 6:46 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

If I was an oil guy, I'd be investing like mad into alternative energy. Buy up all the technology I could in preparation for the inevitable shift.

Then I could still be rich.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, December 13, 2015 2:41 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


By default I normally stand against big oil, too much corruption, I would prefer solar, nuke energy, wind energy and other alternatives

but you wonder in this case is there outside influence?


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Tuesday, April 5, 2022 10:38 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


The premier of Alberta, Canada, is calling for construction to resume on the Keystone XL pipeline backed by former President Donald Trump in order to replace Russian oil imports in North America.

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