REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Just how far they'll go

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 07:18
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Friday, December 23, 2011 10:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The current kerfluffle by the right on the Obama Xmas card is, for me, a prime example of just HOW far they will go to try and trash him. It's absolutely amazing; they go on and on about how terrible his card is, when the cards of so many other Presidents are even less personal (and one might note, much colder).
Quote:

As reported by Business Insider on December 21, 2011: Sarah Palin recently commented on Obama’s Christmas card on Fox News Radio. “It’s odd,” Palin said, wondering why the president’s Christmas card highlights his dog instead of traditions like “family, faith and freedom.”
First of all, what does "freedom" have to do with an Xmas card? Second, and most important; show us a single Xmas card by any recent Prez, left OR right, which has ANYTHING to do with family or faith...???

Truly insane, as is trashing him for going to PetSmart with Bo...the hatred has gone so far beyond the bounds of sanity now that it's just beyond belief.

Why do these people hate him SO much that they are desperate to find fault with anything, however trivial, however false?? Boggles the mind, it does!


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Friday, December 23, 2011 10:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I doubt Mrs. Palin is considered to be a respected spokesperson, nor that her criticisms will be perceived to have any validity even amongst people of her own party. I think of her more as an entertainer and cheerleader than any serious political commentator.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:26 AM

HKCAVALIER


(Apologies in advance for the extreme crassness of this post, but I'm kinda past being disgusted by these people.)

Christamighty, can't they get him on his actual b.s. behavior without resorting this kinda weak sauce character assassination?

The creepiest thing to me is how these folks seem to want the President to live his entire life in a trance of patriotism. Like some ultra-politicized pornstar with a perminent hard-on for freedom. It's gross. They don't want a person to run the country, they want an interactive 3d virtual propaganda toy. Do they jack off to old Dubya speeches? "If you're not with us...you're...you're...AGAIIIIIIIIIIINST us! Whew! Was it as good for you, nation, as it was for me?"

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I do too, Anthony, but you can't deny that she still has many, many followers who accept her every word, and the microphone of FauxNews to broadcast it. Aside from which, it wasn't just Palin (she got quoted most often because she's such a great "entertainer"); numerous people on the right were bitching about the Xmas card, and as of last night were STILL bitching about Obama going out to buy Xmas gifts "when he should be here working", as they've said. It really IS insane!



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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:35 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Christamighty, can't they get him on his actual b.s. behavior without resorting this kinda weak sauce character assassination?

That's cause they agree and support and in some cases forced his actual bs behavior.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:39 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


The repulican party seems to have become about as batshitcrazy as you can get. What is going on?

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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:46 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
What is going on?

Future shock.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh my goodness, Cav, and you usually so sweet! Tch, tch. Holidays gettin' to 'ya or somethin'?

You know the answer full well; he's a Democrat and he's Black, and in these times, both are unforgiveable--COMBINED, they are anathema! This is just what happens when the pendulum swings TOO FAR in one direction; we can only pray it won't swing as far back again (that would be TERRIBLY embarrassing!).



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Friday, December 23, 2011 1:19 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Wow, not often YOU steal my thunder, HKCav...

But yeah, that's about it.

Oh, and my two cents worth - every time you ever get to thinking "how low can they possibly go ?"...

Think of the current moment as a ceiling, not a floor - and you will never be disappointed.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, December 23, 2011 6:05 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
The repulican party seems to have become about as batshitcrazy as you can get. What is going on?


I find myself wondering the same thing quite a lot lately. Or rather, ever since that dreadful Rick Perry ad. But more importantly, there are almost certainly non-crazy republicans that exist, so why are they putting rather controversial figures at the forefront for the presidential candidacy?

And plus there's the trend of focusing on things that don't matter, such as the example in the original post here, instead of, you know...things that politicians should be focusing on.

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Friday, December 23, 2011 7:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
The repulican party seems to have become about as batshitcrazy as you can get. What is going on?



Sarah Palin is now running the GOP ? I must have missed that one. Like I have yet to receive the Obama Christmas card either...

Oh well.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, December 23, 2011 7:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Like I have yet to receive the Obama Christmas card either...


Well that can certainly be arranged, would you like some Obama waffle mix with that ?

-F

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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:15 PM

JONGSSTRAW




The Royal Couples discuss global economics and the sizes of their respective genitalia. Kate is of course sans underwear.









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Saturday, December 24, 2011 3:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:


Kate is of course sans underwear.



You just like saying that, for obvious reasons.



You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Future shock.
Worse... present shock. They can't quite seem to grasp the current situation.... and it's taking them 150 years to catch up.

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Saturday, December 24, 2011 5:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.
Dude, I have never heard such such a meaningless string of tripe in my life. Is this what you substitute for understanding? An endless string of slogans with NO... check it out... NO correspondence to reality???? I have to ask... when, dear god, when are you going to get tired of total cluelessness?

"You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong???" Uh, have you never heard of guerrilla warfare... the war of attrition? Dude, it's a favorite military tactic of the less-powerful.

"You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer." Of course you can! If the "wage payer" (the bank or company owner through which money flows) holds back 10%, 20%, 30% of wages for him or herself, that's more for the wage earner's pocket. Hello?

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich." OF COURSE you can! Bill Gates has enough money in his hands to pay 40,000 teachers a 50,000 dollar a year salary for 25 years each. Don't tell me THAT wouldn't make a difference in our economy. Whatever you're smoking/drinking, I want some.

"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." Then let's kick those banksters and billionaires into the cold, harsh world that everyone else has to live in. Make them enjoy the same rules they propound everyone ELSE should live by.

rappy, my opinion of you has fallen even lower. I am once again reminded why some people are a waste of oxygen. Come into the light of reality, son.

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Monday, December 26, 2011 1:21 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm sure there are plenty of people who put animals on their Christmas cards, animals are cute. It hardly seems like something to be upset about, why waste time being upset and criticizing someone's Christmas cards? It makes no sense to me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Dude, I have never heard such such a meaningless string of tripe in my life. Is this what you substitute for understanding? An endless string of slogans with NO... check it out... NO correspondence to reality???? I have to ask... when, dear god, when are you going to get tired of total cluelessness?



Sorry to inform you Sig, but those sentiments are firmly based in solid rock.

It's not talking about any military tactics, but simply the idea that you can make the poor better by over taxing the achievers in life. It'll never happen. Never has, never will. Not in a FREE society.

Your hyper over reaction to such basic, honest and undeniable truths shows just how far from reality you're living.

Your "opinion" of me is irrelevant.

Facts do not change, regardless of how much you may not like them.





"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:23 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Rich <> Achievers

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Rich <> Achievers




Rich are less than/ greater than achievers ?

I guess you mean to say one does not equal the other ? While there are the trust fund babies, those who manage to find their way into money, with zero effort of their own doing, that still doesn't dismiss the fact that most folks who ARE achievers and have become wealthy did so on their own.

Unless you're talking about union or govt employees. Then yes, they have become wealthy largely on the backs of others.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Dude, I have never heard such such a meaningless string of tripe in my life. Is this what you substitute for understanding? An endless string of slogans with NO... check it out... NO correspondence to reality???? I have to ask... when, dear god, when are you going to get tired of total cluelessness?
Like you haven't already accepted that the answer to the first two is "yes" and the answer of the last is "never"?
Quote:

there are almost certainly non-crazy republicans that exist, so why are they putting rather controversial figures at the forefront for the presidential candidacy?
Those non-crazy Republicans were smart enough to stay out of the fray this time, and are just waiting for 2016, would be my guess. They saw the way things were going and realized putting themselves among the current crazies was useless and would only reflect poorly on themselves, so they are waiting for things to get less insane, as the pendulum ALWAYS swings back.
Quote:

why waste time being upset and criticizing someone's Christmas cards? It makes no sense to me.
Of course it doesn't make sense to you, Riona, you're a thinking person. As to "why", however, the answer is that the current reflectors of "Republican" mentality will go to any lengths to find ANYTHING they can diss Obama about, no matter how ridiculous or unimportant. It's been going on for quite some time and will continue, never doubt it.

As to any expectations that Rap will put forth anything but oft-repeated talking points, why would anyone waste their time? Of course he'll parrot the "job creators" line and all the rest, it's what he's indoctrinated to do. The fact that taxes on the rich "job creators" are lower than they've been for many, many decades and yet they're not "creating" any "jobs" will never have any effect; his blinders are too firmly attached and that will never change. Logic has no place in the minds of the manipulated.



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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:07 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I guess you mean to say one does not equal the other ? While there are the trust fund babies, those who manage to find their way into money, with zero effort of their own doing, that still doesn't dismiss the fact that most folks who ARE achievers and have become wealthy did so on their own.

Unless you're talking about union or govt employees. Then yes, they have become wealthy largely on the backs of others.



Yes, some wealthy people did work very hard to get where they are. Many others did not. Then you also have people who have achieved great things but are not rich. So the two groups are not the same.

Oh, find me a rich union or government employee.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Oh, find me a rich union or government employee.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



A janitor working at a GM plant , living in a nice house w/ a big back yard, a pool and a pool house and a vintage Mustang in the garage may not count as "rich", but he sure as hell was doing better than most Americans.


And Niki, a communist community agitator who can't for the life of him find his birth certificate, who spent 20 years in Rev Wright's racist, anti-American church would be classified as " non crazy " in your world ?

Really?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:34 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A janitor working at a GM plant , living in a nice house w/ a big back yard, a pool and a pool house and a vintage Mustang in the garage may not count as "rich", but he sure as hell was doing better than most Americans.



How long did he have to work to get all that? You almost sound jealous. See he was making about $23 an hour. With some overtime maybe in the $60,000 per year range.

Okay, he is doing better than most, now find me a rich one.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Okay, he is doing better than most, now find me a rich one.



Too easy...

Democrat Hypocrisy: Pelosi Flaunts $10,000 per night Hawaii Hotel Room


Move over Obama’s. You may be enjoying a 4 million dollar Hawaii “Christmas vacation” with your friends on the tax payer dime, but there’s another multi-millionaire Democrat at a nearby Island.

She’s none other than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and she and her husband have checked into the exclusive Four Seasons Resort Hualalai at Historic Ka'upulehu in Kona on the island of Hawaii.

The hotel’s website describes the lavish setting this way: “Gloriously revitalised, this natural tropical paradise offers more than ever to explore – with a newly expanded Spa, beachfront dining, fashion boutiques and new Deluxe Suites, in addition to Jack Nicklaus signature golf. Set on the Big Island’s exclusive Kona-Kohala Coast, this showpiece resort captures the essence of Hawaiian design, culture and tradition.”

Speaker Pelosi revealed earlier this year earnings of 35 million dollars in one year alone. With a combined wealth with her husband in the hundreds of millions, it easy to see why her political ideology is “do as I say, not as I do”


http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-philadelphia/democrat-hypocr
isy-pelosi-s-flaunts-10-000-per-night-hawaii-hotel-room



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:53 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Okay, he is doing better than most, now find me a rich one.



Too easy...

Democrat Hypocrisy: Pelosi Flaunts $10,000 per night Hawaii Hotel Room



Not a union worker or a government employee, but an elected official.
An elected official who's government salary is under $250,000 per year.

That would be strike two!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Elected officials ARE govt employees, genius.

And the first example ? More of a foul tip, not a clear miss.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:20 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Elected officials ARE govt employees, genius.



No, they are not. When you hear about government employees getting pay raises, or cut, those do not include elected officials. In places where government employees are covered by unions, those unions do not cover elected officials. There a a bunch of differences.

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And the first example ? More of a foul tip, not a clear miss.


Okay, a foul tip....that is still a strike.

People are not getting rich working a union or government job.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



First, elected officials ARE govt employees. You didn't specify union employees AND govt workers, you said " or ". Hell, those in Congress make up their own rules, there's no need to unionize, they ARE " the man " .

But I'll just repost what I had originally added as a PS in my prior reply, as it seems to address your other comment.


But what you ask for here is sorta missing the point. Real wealth lies w/ the people, not the govt. Or it should. Yes, there are areas where the govt can pool its resources together and the end benefit is passed on to all of us, but when it comes to " making people rich", that should be done in the free market, not govt. Where do you think govt gets its money in the first place ? It TAKES what others have earned.

The problem that so many are seemingly blind to is that our govt already takes more than it needs, yet it keeps asking for more. The claims that " it's for the children" or "it's for the greater good " have been so over used, so exaggerated, it'd be comical if it weren't such a disaster.

One tiny example ?


Quote:


When Fayette County opened a new $9.9 million school, it was supposed to house nearly 700 students. Years later, why is it nearly empty? And what lessons might other school districts learn from the costly mistake?
The faith in infinite growth that led to overbuilding and financial distress in Atlanta's real estate markets also blindsided one metro area school system.

In fall 2009, construction finished on a new $9.9 million elementary school in Fayette County, south of Atlanta. At more than 86,000 square feet, Rivers Elementary could hold nearly 700 students.
Today, it houses about 20.


After years of adding students --- and state numbers showing that would continue --- Fayette County school system officials say they didn't see the enrollment reversal coming.

The miscalculation cost the school system millions at a time when budgets were already straining under a recessionary decline in tax revenue. It also highlights the challenges that school districts and others across metro Atlanta face when planning for the future.
"When we were planning for this school, there were projections that the population would grow," said Bob Todd, chairman of the Fayette County school board. "Of course, the bottom dropped out of the economy."

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDoc
ument&orgId=574&topicId=100020422&docId=l:1570523673&isRss=true&Em=4





There are countless examples like this, and much much worse, and yet govt STILL keeps insisting that it needs more and more money. It's sheer insanity, and nothing less.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 6:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just FYI, because I'm not about to waste my time in a silly argument with the talking-points-but-no-thinking village idiot, "with some overtime maybe in the $60,000 per year range" is about right. According to their contract, janitors at GM get $28 per hour in wages AND BENEFITS.
Quote:

The contract states that new employees will begin in "non-core" janitorial and maintenance roles at a rate of $28 per hour in salary and benefits.
That's roughly $58,240/year BEFORE TAXES, so you're pretty right on. BUT, that includes benefits and taxes, keep in mind. Take out taxes, and benefits that many middle-managemnt and other workers get, and what does that actually work out to? I'm not about to do the math, but it's nothing near enough to pay for all things said village idiot pictures him as hvaing. Just sayin'.

The rest is just partisan idiocy on his part, trying to justify things with non-logic. Also,
Quote:

a communist community agitator who can't for the life of him find his birth certificate, who spent 20 years in Rev Wright's racist, anti-American church would be classified as " non crazy " in your world ?
That's the most assinine thing I've read yet this morning, and quite clearly classifies him as a Village Idiot, of the mindless right-wing class.



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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 7:18 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

First, elected officials ARE govt employees. You didn't specify union employees AND govt workers, you said " or ". Hell, those in Congress make up their own rules, there's no need to unionize, they ARE " the man " .



Yes, government or union. That being said elected officals are not government employees. There is a distint difference. Even if they where the Speaker of the House's pay is less then $250K per year.

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
But I'll just repost what I had originally added as a PS in my prior reply, as it seems to address your other comment.


But what you ask for here is sorta missing the point. Real wealth lies w/ the people, not the govt. Or it should. Yes, there are areas where the govt can pool its resources together and the end benefit is passed on to all of us, but when it comes to " making people rich", that should be done in the free market, not govt. Where do you think govt gets its money in the first place ? It TAKES what others have earned.

The problem that so many are seemingly blind to is that our govt already takes more than it needs, yet it keeps asking for more. The claims that " it's for the children" or "it's for the greater good " have been so over used, so exaggerated, it'd be comical if it weren't such a disaster.



Government sets the rules, and in turn those rules ultimatly dictate who will be rich and who will not be. There is very little upword mobility in this country right now. There is more in those countries you decry as Socialist. That is because of the current rules.

Even id you get ride the government and the rules you will only see the rich get richer. The rules make it possible for those with less money to compete.

As for your example, it was a mistake. Hinesight is always 20/20. If everything the city saw indicated that they would need that capacity for students how was spending that money a bad choice?

See in the end how much and on what the government spend is up for the people to decide. There is no right or true answer.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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