Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Rap,

Invert your images and ask yourself the same question.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Rap,

Invert your images and ask yourself the same question.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

---

That's nonsensical, and is a pointless game which can only be played if one completely disconnects from the real world of today. I fail to see your point. I know what you're ATTEMPTING here, but it doesn't hold water.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Praying to win a football match IS bad taste.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Invert your images and ask yourself the same question.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's nonsensical, and is a pointless game which can only be played if one completely disconnects from the real world of today. I fail to see your point. I know what you're ATTEMPTING here, but it doesn't hold water.

---

Quote:

---

The War Prayer
by Mark Twain

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came -- next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams -- visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation

*God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!*

Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory --

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory--*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(*After a pause.*) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

---

Quote:

---

Because what Tebow does doesn't represent flying planes into tall buildings, in the name of his lord and savior.

Or rape school children, shoot them in the back, and then blow them up.

Or saw the heads off innocent men, women and children.

Or give children little plastic 'keys to Paradise', and then force them to scamper across a mine field.

Or stone to death women who get raped.

Or hang gays for being 'gay'.

Or blow up centuries old statues.... I could go on ALL day. But I have a game to watch.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Bytemite:

By that argument, what Tebow does represent is flying planes OVER buildings with bombs, killing off those children's parents or destroying their crops so they have no choice but to sell the kids into sex slavery, shooting innocent men, women, and children, or stoning women to death for adultery or rape (which still happens in some Christian parts of the world, and which certainly happened in the old testiment), or beating up/hanging gays for being gay, or defacing statues by the great masters because they don't have certain dangly bits covered.

I mean, most of the same things that Muslims are being condemned for, the stonings for rape, the killing gays, they're done places in Africa, but by Christians as well. And sometimes, like the calls to deface the statues (and actual defacements that happened like say with the Catholic church), it's not even in Africa, but in the modern world.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because what Tebow does doesn't represent flying planes into tall buildings, in the name of his lord and savior.

etc...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The Left openly embraces the religion that perpetuates nearly every terrorist act on the globe, yet when Tebow , on his own accord, simply takes to one knee, it's a calamity and an affront to good taste ?

---

Quote:

---

Who here supports or apologises for the actions of radical Muslims?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's funny that you talk about being able to process info, when you so clearly CAN'T process the facts concerning what Muslims do, world wide, NOW, TODAY.

BILLIONS of Muslim? Didn't know it was 2 or more now. And as if that some how detracts from all the atrocities they HAVE committed ?

---

Quote:

---

Basically, he's the sort of guy that makes most other humans feel guilty as hell, for not being all they can be, and to the Left, that's a terrible crime.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

Basically, he's the sort of guy that makes most other humans feel guilty as hell, for not being all they can be, and to the Left, that's a terrible crime.

---

Strawman much????

Naaaahhhhh...........

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The Left openly embraces the religion that perpetuates nearly every terrorist act on the globe, yet when Tebow , on his own accord, simply takes to one knee, it's a calamity and an affront to good taste ?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:


It's not " a few crazies ". It's a global network of radical, well organized and dedicated zealots, intent on not merely spreading their message, but taking over. Take a look at Europe and Africa, if you don't believe me.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Well, to be honest, I AM grasping at straws...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Sometimes ya just gotta step back and ask..."

... why the guy who prays in the front of the stadium proclaming his personal righteousness is looked on with less favor by the LORD than the guy at the back of the stadium asking forgiveness? Is that the question?

---

Quote:

---

Bullshit. You've no evidence of any of these things.

---

Quote:

---

But little does that matter to you - you've also no evidence that Muslims are behind "nearly every terrorist act on the globe", but by all means, don't ever let facts stand in the way of your idiotic belief system...

---

Quote:

---

Depending on how one defines such things, virtually every one of the military conflicts around the world involve Islamic extremists, fighting in their god's name.

---

Quote:

---

He spoke also this parable to certain people who were convinced of their own righteousness, and who despised all others. "Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
OH, "Today, right now". So we ignore all of the killing WE'VE done because it doesn't fit your notion? We just ignore the millions we've wiped off the face of the earth because they're an inconvenient truth that doesn't address YOUR angst?

Oh, BTW, I added something about Tebow to my post above.

---

Quote:

---

Yanno, as far as I know Tebow is a good guy, he's not an adulterer and he gives money to the poor and all that other good stuff. But to think that the god of his religion would favor HIS football career over somebody else's...? (because, after all, for Tebow to win means somebody else has to lose) just speaks of self-centeredness and righteousness that I find somewhere between disgusting, funny, and squirmingly embarrassing.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:

I saw the Tebowie thing and it had me laughing hysterically, and I never even heard of Tim Tebow or knew what he'd done before this issue came up...

---

Quote:

---

so you can't blame "the left" for hating him for any reason--I don't hate him, I feel sorry for the idiot and his need for grandiosity. It gave me a moment of enjoyable hilarity and the whole kerfuffle is deserving of just that much satire, nothing more.

As to praying to God to win a war, or anything else, it's despicable in my opinion, for all the reasons expressed here.

---

Quote:

---

And also, given all that, I DON'T feel, or get the sense that the message he's sending is one of "God™ likes ME the best, so MY team will win" or that he so much as THINKS that, even a little.

---

Quote:

---

“First and foremost I’ve got to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and my teammates.

---

Quote:

---

“He reminds us that strength comes in many forms & some people have what can be described only as a gift for winning

---

Quote:

---

The MILLIONS we've wiped off the Earth? What in the hell are you even talking about ?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

And also, given all that, I DON'T feel, or get the sense that the message he's sending is one of "God™ likes ME the best, so MY team will win" or that he so much as THINKS that, even a little.

---

One can pray anywhere... silently, for a moment, in the locker room. Tebow is making a show of it, just like the Pharisee. Apparently he hasn't read his Bible.

---