Is ' high crime ' a code for racism? by AURaptor

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is ' high crime ' a code for racism?

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, January 22, 2012 18:45
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VIEWED: 1798
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Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:24 AM

America loves a winner!

Anyone see a problem with this ? I don't.

Quote:
App That Would Guide Users Away From High-Crime Areas Proves Controversial
January 17, 2012 8:37 PM

DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – An in-development Microsoft smart phone app designed to help drivers and pedestrians avoid unsafe neighborhoods is proving controversial among some minority rights groups that find the software potentially discriminatory.

The as-of-yet unnamed product is being referred to as the “Avoid The Ghetto” app by those who are concerned with where it will guide users.

“I’m going to be up in arms about it if it happens,” said Dallas NAACP President Juanita Wallace.

Wallace spent her afternoon at a rally on Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. and said she felt safe there, but fears the app may project otherwise.

“Can you imagine me not being able to go to MLK Blvd. because my GPS says that’s a dangerous crime area? I can’t even imagine that,” she said.

Microsoft says the app will use crime statistics to determine what parts of town are to be avoided. But it’s unclear where the data will come from and how it will be interpreted.

Microsoft has filed a patent for the app, but the actual product is unnamed and not available yet.

Opponents like Wallace fear it could hurt minority communities.

“It’s almost like gerrymandering,” she said. “It’s stereotyping for sure and without a doubt; I can’t emphasize enough, it’s discriminatory.”

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/01/17/app-that-would-guide-users-away-fro
m-high-crime-areas-proves-controversial/

I'm not surprised in the least that naacp prez Juanita Wallace would jump on this as a " racial " issue. By even threatening to do so, isn't SHE engaging in racism ? By automatically assuming that such areas designated as 'high crime ' are exclusively 'black' or minority ? And if that IS the case... what exactly is she admitting to ?

She's already lying, of course. Stating that the user wont' be ALLOWED to find their way to MLK blvd, as if the GPS will some how take over the car, and force the driver to take a certain route.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:34 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

Oddly enough, I have no problem with this app either. If a business wants to try and profit off of scared white people's misguided fears, why shouldnt they?

Im sure that it is racist, but so what? hardly the first racist enterprise out there

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Oddly enough, I have no problem with this app either. If a business wants to try and profit off of scared white people's misguided fears, why shouldnt they?

Im sure that it is racist, but so what? hardly the first racist enterprise out there

Why do you say scared 'white' people? What's misguided by their fears ? And how is it racist ? If the app is going on official known data, then where is the racial component ? You're talking about activity, not skin color.

Seriously, answer those questions, if you can.

And what's NOT racist about the naacp, making this a 'racial' issue ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:07 AM

CAVETROLL

I wasn't aware that crime was racist.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
I wasn't aware that crime was racist.

Yep. And only white folks are apparently scared of crime.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:41 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

You're seriously telling me this wont be marketed to little old ladies who are scared of minorities?

Who do you think this technology is targeted for? Im not talking in rose-colored views of the world, im dealing in facts on the ground. The reality is that, with a few exceptions of serious gang territory, these "high crime" areas are not a danger to anyone who is just passing through them, only those that live in them, hence the scared white people as customers for this technology.

I absolutely believe that these high crime areas are going to be in minority neighborhoods, and I dont have a problem with that.

This is private enterprise and they can act on whatever business model they like, as long as they aren't actively discriminating, which I feel they clearly are not doing, only marketing to those who would like to, which is very different.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Who cares who it's marketed to ? That's not remotely an legitimate issue.

Quote:
I absolutely believe that these high crime areas are going to be in minority neighborhoods, and I dont have a problem with that.

Maybe that's the problem. Too much apathy in those communities and everyone else, who simply 'accepts' this standard of living, as if what is HAS to be, and there's no sense in trying to change anything.

Talk about dealing with facts on the ground. This IS exactly that, but you seem to have a problem w/ those facts. But only in so much as it pertains to how others spend their money. Why ?

I have no problem with discriminating. We do it every day, when we make one of any of a 1000 decisions every day.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:52 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

Who makes you the arbiter of what is a legitimate issue?

If you arent talking about who a product is being marketed to, then you arent talking about its customer base, so what are you talking about?

I cant find a coherent point anywhere in your post.

The reason for apathy in these neighborhoods is poverty, pure and simple. What does that have to do at all with this technology you posted about...

Im confused as to what you would like to discuss about it, if you dont want to talk about its potential customers?

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:02 AM

BYTEMITE

I think whether the app is misrepresentative would depend on what crimes exactly are being used to compile the information.

At the same time, I think it would really only be useful to non-locals, as I would presume most locals in an area would already be aware of and roundly agree across racial boundaries as to what neighborhoods and street corners are dangerous. They would also probably be aware of specific threats on a racial basis - the reality is there ARE some neighborhoods that you don't want to be black, white, latino, or even just a stranger while you're walking through them.

So ultimately, I question the end usefulness of the software in general, and further speculate that even non-locals probably don't just randomly end up in a bad neighborhood. I'd say they end up going there for some purpose or another.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

It's one thing to talk about potential customers, but another to assign both motive and mind set to those who use this app?

They want to avoid crime areas. Period. The racial make up of those areas is irrelevant to the user. Would be to me.

*ps* - And I find it curious that so many folks who would be upset over such things as a crime app, are so vocal about " social change" , yet are blind, dumb and deaf to the issue of crime.

Does that make sense to you ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:15 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

Maybe its a lack of empathy on your part, but I have little difficulty imagining the mindset of someone who would purchase an app for their phone or gps that tells them "dont go there it isnt safe"

Is it really dificult to come up with an idea of who would buy or use such a product, based on its stated purpose?

I still dont really understand the point of this discussion...was it just to post something where an NAACP spokesperson is claiming racism, so u can say "look at the blacks screaming racism?"

I have spent a large amount of time in what many would consider "high crime" areas in Orlando, Atlanta, Dallas, and Newark, NJ. I can easily say the only time I ever felt unsafe was when I witnessed a brawl break out between 2 groups of guys in Newark. Never once in any of those other cities was I even slightly worried about being victimized in some fashion.

This experience is what informs my post, as to the bullshit nature of not being safe in so called "high crime" areas.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:58 AM

BYTEMITE

I wouldn't necessarily rule out the possibility that it can be dangerous just being in or near a high crime area, and it depends on the area. Salt Lake City has high crime areas, but I wouldn't call them particularly dangerous. Other cities have areas that are both. Dallas is dangerous, but from what I hear that's really only south of 1-30, and it's more specific neighborhoods than it is the whole area.

Also there's the possibility that rankings of US cities by crime rate might be inaccurate, it's possible that some areas have extremely dangerous areas but less REPORTED crime based on attitudes. There's also the possibility some cities have dangerous areas but lower serious crime rates because people deliberately avoid those areas because they're so dangerous. That might seem counter-intuitive, but you probably don't want to be walking through the null zone in a turf war.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If a high amount of crime occurs in a certain area, how is it 'bullshit' to factually state that a high amount of crime occurs in a certain area ?

Assign nefarious motives all day long, but the facts are the facts.

And yes, it's because some naacp spokesperson is yapping about this NON issue, being ridiculous, that this is being posted.

I find it COULD be a useful app, for those traveling, and not familiar w/ parts of a city they're visiting. It's just information, and what they choose to do w/ is up to them.
But going into hysterics, and claiming they're 'racist' for simply receiving information ? Please.

Ask most folks,if they'd prefer to choose (discriminate) between a low crime area or a high crime area. Doesn't take Hawking to figure this one out.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
At the same time, I think it would really only be useful to non-locals, as I would presume most locals in an area would already be aware of and roundly agree across racial boundaries as to what neighborhoods and street corners are dangerous. They would also probably be aware of specific threats on a racial basis - the reality is there ARE some neighborhoods that you don't want to be black, white, latino, or even just a stranger while you're walking through them.

Right on, Byte.

I have no problem with this app either; there are tons of apps out there for a lot of silly things, but wanting to avoid high-crime areas isn't a silly thing and it's free enterprise, it's not racist in my opinion. However many high-crime areas are inhabited by whoever isn't the issue; if someone's concerned about their safety when driving through an area, they'd want the app. They're entitled to it.

The one negative could be that it would turn potential customers away from an area, but as I see it, if it's a high-crime area, people who don't know the area wouldn't be going there much anyway. I have no doubt it targets minority areas, maybe unfairly, but there's enough of that going around that this seems minor to me--again, anyone who would need such an app would most likely feel uncomfortable in such areas anyway and not likely to shop there. It wouldn't affect locals, who already know the area.

And yes, "high crime" is code for racism in many instances, but that's another issue. Just my opinion that it's overblown.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If there were an app showing areas where child molesters were living, would THAT be seen as " racist "??

Penn State fans might get upset, but who cares?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:30 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I don't know anyone who cares enough about it to buy an app about high crime areas.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Depends.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily about race per se, but yeah there ARE places where standing out in that fashion can cause trouble all by itself.

And yea verily there's a use for that sort of app, case in point: if you go to Mapquest and intend to get on I-94 from here, it's gonna give you three possible routes - one of them, the quickest, is almost a downright invitation to get carjacked or shot at, and the second quickest is decidedly unsafe as well, you see ?

That route isn't going to tell you that you'll be hitting a four way stop which contains the local "corner" and IF you stop, will be very likely to have a gun shoved in your ear and robbed or carjacked - and that it's very easy to miss that tiny little turn off and you'll wind up wandering in a very very bad place for a while... as opposed to going east and turning left when the road dead ends at McDonalds, which is a nice safe well lighted intersection with lots of potential witnesses, although one mile longer, sure.

You all might recall me relating the incident on xmas eve where two suburbanites wound up stranded across the street from here due to a broken gas gauge, and my immediate efforts to get them mobile and AWAY from here before trouble came of it, yes ?

So sure, there's a market for this, and sure some folk are gonna whine and whinge, but I think that has less to do with race than it does peoples idiotic perceptions - I'd not be worried about an area notorious for smoking pot and getting blitzed on homebrew, not like I would one notorious for armed robbery, carjacking, and murder, right ?

Anyhows, non-issue, this.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:45 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:

You all might recall me relating the incident on xmas eve where two suburbanites wound up stranded across the street from here due to a broken gas gauge, and my immediate efforts to get them mobile and AWAY from here before trouble came of it, yes ?

I do. That anecdote was what primarily shaped my opinion in this thread.

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Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:06 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Okay.

Auraptor, Niki, and Frem all agreeing on something.

Maybe 2012 IS the end time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 20, 2012 2:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

I guess I'd have to test out the app to see if it's "racist". For instance, will it steer me away from Wall Street, or Greenwich, CT, where many hedge fund managers reside? Will it keep me from going to see tapings of Martha Stewart's show? She's a convicted felon, after all, so her show is a "high crime" area!

Would this app warn me to stay away from the local police department, which is the headquarters of the Donut Mafia?

If so, I would say it's not a racial thing, but a criminal thing.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:45 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Good point Frem. Also one would probably be using it when visiting cities other than your own, because in your own city you generally know where to be in order to stay safe.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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