House Freshmen Double Down by Niki2

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Niki,

While I won't duplicate the tone, I have to agree with the content of Mr. Raptor's response. Having been elected with a particular rhetoric, it is hardly surprising that these people wish to continue pushing towards these same issues. They are likely to do what works for them until it stops working for them. Only then will they change direction.

You go on to speak of important issues not actually being addressed (jobs, limited government) but that hardly matters. As long as they jump up and down and scream about such things, and that gets them votes, they don't actually need to succeed in doing any of these things. Again, not particularly surprising that razzle dazzle is the name of the game.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 7:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
..the left has compromised again and again, while they've not given an inch.

And this is why I do not support that "side" either, it's long past time to stop giving ground, and start taking it back - and when the mask comes off and these brownshirted jackals show the true colors they been hiding all along, what we OUGHT to do is grind them into the dust where they belong, forgotten by history save as an atrocity to hold up to future generations as a warning.

Quote:
“There are two great powers, and they’ve been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit.”

I *know* what side of that I am on, and not neither "side" wanting to claw for the reins is with me, but these neo-feudo-fascist bastards gotta go.

One way, or another.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 7:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Anthony, I have not yet begun to respond.

But thanks for thinking of me.

But as for the GOP, it's about gorram time they figured out what sent them there, and what needs to be done to stop this horrific Left wing socialist agenda. And that's no lie!

Point of fact, it's the President, who has decided to double down on his divisionist talk, his class warfare and hate-the-rich rhetoric.

He, like the Cylons, has a plan, on destroying freedom in this country.

And that's no lie either !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 13, 2012 7:55 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

FREM Indeed. It's not a case of "Obama or fascism". Obama is fascism with a dollop of sweetener, that's all. Pardon me if I don't fall for the sweetener, the people pulling Obama's puppet strings are simply the international and national financials. I really don't see the point of choosing one master over another.

RAPPY If you would stop confusing the freedom of the wealthy to rape, pillage and burn the remainder as "freedom" for ALL, you might actually start making some sense. As it is, the moment someone even implies that the wealthy are sucking everyone else dry (which is the case) you start defending the minuscule few against the many. Which is why you're really dead set against democracy (see your quote, above): you're terrified that the many might actually take control.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 7:59 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Anthony, I have not yet begun to respond.

But thanks for thinking of me.

But as for the GOP, it's about gorram time they figured out what sent them there, and what needs to be done to stop this horrific Left wing socialist agenda. And that's no lie!

Point of fact, it's the President, who has decided to double down on his divisionist talk, his class warfare and hate-the-rich rhetoric.

He, like the Cylons, has a plan, on destroying freedom in this country.

And that's no lie either !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Hello,

I apologize for having Heroic visions of you before your time. And I apologize for calling Hero a reptile. ;-)

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:00 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
While I won't duplicate the tone, I have to agree with the content of Mr. Raptor's response.

LOL, folks can't even tell our resident right wing zealots apart!

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:03 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
While I won't duplicate the tone, I have to agree with the content of Mr. Raptor's response.

LOL, folks can't even tell our resident right wing zealots apart!

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

If sounding like our Founding Fathers is what you call being a "zealot ", then by all means, I stand guilty!

Sig, congrats on being utterly duped by the tyrannical far left into buying that...

A. The 'rich' have become that way only by sticking it to the poor, and...

B. Ignoring the cartoonish levels of spending that's going on , by the federal govt, and thinking that soaking the 'rich' will in any way positively help our mounting debt or will in any way remotely improve the lives of the rest of us, as more of our $ ends up in govt hands. And yes, OUR money, because it's not just the wealthy who are getting soaked under Obama, but every one of us.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:15 AM

STORYMARK

LOL!!!

Sure, keep tellingyourself you're like the Founding Fathers (actually, you are to a degree - they were in many cases racist as well). You're not nearly as entertaining when you're on your meds.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:22 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
LOL!!!

Sure, keep tellingyourself you're like the Founding Fathers (actually, you are to a degree - they were in many cases racist as well). You're not nearly as entertaining when you're on your meds.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

Hello,

Several of the founders were zealots. Not all zealots are created equal, and not all fathers are worthy of emulation.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:26 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The "cartoonish" level of spending is the military. Which is busy taking down secular governments in the middle east, and replacing them with radical fundamentalist regimes or failed states. WAY TO GO!

Rappy, just so you have a few facts on-hand (I know... facts are not your "thing") Social Security is not the source of our deficit because it is TOTALLY SELF-FUNDED. In fact, since about 1970, Social Security has been financing the rest of the government. So SSI- not a problem.

Medicare is ALSO self-funded. Yes, it needs reform, but it is without a doubt the most efficient, cost-effective deliverer of health care in the nation. It would be a roaring financial and medical success if only younger people were allowed to buy into it at a slight premium. If it could be introduced into the market, we would SEE who the winner really is!

The military? We spend more than the rest of the world COMBINED, but that's not enough? The military was supposed to defend our borders, not to get entangled in foreign wars, according to the Founding Fathers. So what are we doing, playing world emperor? What interests are we defending, if we play footsie with radical Islamist regimes like Saudi Arabia, and take down secular ones? (BTW, you might have noticed that al Qaida is supporting the Syrian rebels, just as it supported the Libyan rebels. It really pays to know who we're supporting, but we don't seem to be able to think even one step ahead anymore. Yippee for us.)

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:33 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"The "cartoonish" level of spending is the military. Which is busy taking down secular governments in the middle east, and replacing them with radical fundamentalist regimes or failed states. WAY TO GO!"

Hello,

I am with you on this one. If we cut the thing in half, it would still be a bloated killing machine that isn't looking out for our best interests.

I know there is a name for a snake that eats itself.

Is there a name for a snake that gives birth to itself?

If so, it would represent many government programs, but especially the programs of Defense and Intelligence.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Also, Homeland Security, which has turned into a bloated pig of a program. Apparently the real internal anti-terrorism work is being done by the anti-terrorist part of the FBI. The rest is just a giant money-pit.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:40 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The "cartoonish" level of spending is the military.

Not so much.

Quote:
Social Security is not the source of our deficit because it is TOTALLY SELF-FUNDED. In fact, since about 1970, Social Security has been financing the rest of the government. So SSI- not a problem.)

This may have been true up to the point where the Obama Administration cut the payroll tax that funds Social Security. Not so sure about now.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:46 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The "cartoonish" level of spending is the military.

Not so much.

Quote:
Social Security is not the source of our deficit because it is TOTALLY SELF-FUNDED. In fact, since about 1970, Social Security has been financing the rest of the government. So SSI- not a problem.)

This may have been true up to the point where the Obama Administration cut the payroll tax that funds Social Security. Not so sure about now.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Hello,

I am confused by the significance of this chart. It says that non-Defense spending is 20%.

But what has that got to do with a gold-plated toilet?

Or, to put it more plainly- If you are spending 10 times more than you need to for something, isn't it still cartoonish? As cartoonish as a gold-plated toilet?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:48 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"This may have been true up to the point where the Obama Administration cut the payroll tax that funds Social Security. Not so sure about now."

Hello,

I'm pretty sure I got a memo that explains how we are paying for that by penalizing home buyers. I'll try to dig that up.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:49 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57371781/hidden-mortgage-fee-pa
ying-for-payroll-tax-cut/

Hello,

There ya go. They just traded taxes/fees. And this fee will exist for years. Or forever, probably.

This line was particularly interesting:

"The $35.7 billion collected in fees won't go into the Social Security fund to replace the lost payroll tax. It goes to the general treasury where Congress can spend it however they please."

Of course, our responsible politicians will reimburse Social Security...

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 8:56 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
LOL!!!

Sure, keep tellingyourself you're like the Founding Fathers (actually, you are to a degree - they were in many cases racist as well). You're not nearly as entertaining when you're on your meds.

So, you're calling me a racist ( again ) , because you can't defend your position, and feel the need to go all Saul Alinksy on anyone who has an opposing view point, huh?

I've never been on mind altering medications, nor have ever needed them. Seriously, at some point, your Jr High insults have to give way to some sort of adult behavior, no ?

( Why do I even bother to ask ? )

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 13, 2012 9:42 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I am confused by the significance of this chart. It says that non-Defense spending is 20%.

Auraptor complained about the "cartoonish" levels of spending under the Obama Administration.

SignyM replied that the "cartoonish" spending was all military.

The graph shows Non-defense spending rising from an average 15.6% of GDP to 20.6% of GDP during the Obama administration. It could be considered reasonable to suggest that an almost 25% increase in government spending vs. GDP in less than four years is indeed pretty "cartoonish".

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, February 13, 2012 9:46 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I am confused by the significance of this chart. It says that non-Defense spending is 20%.

Auraptor complained about the "cartoonish" levels of spending under the Obama Administration.

SignyM replied that the "cartoonish" spending was all military.

The graph shows Non-defense spending rising from an average 15.6% of GDP to 20.6% of GDP during the Obama administration. It could be considered reasonable to suggest that an almost 25% increase in government spending vs. GDP in less than four years is indeed pretty "cartoonish".

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Hello,

Which of course says nothing to absolve the cartoonish military spending.

I'd be happy to agree that our government is worthy of Looney Tunes in general, though.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 9:56 AM

CAVETROLL

Anthony,
You are aware that GDP has nothing to do with the money that the government operates on? It stands for Gross Domestic Product. A sum calculated before costs of production are deducted. That's the whole ball of wax as far as our country produces.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/cost-of-war-iraq-afghanistan_
n_887084.html

Hello,

This sort of thing troubles me. More than the usual inefficient government programs.

This, too:

(Excerpted From wikipedia's Budget breakdown for 2012) Defense-related expenditure 2012

DOD spending $707.5 billion Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"
FBI counter-terrorism $2.7 billion
International Affairs $5.6–$63.0 billion
Homeland Security $46.9 billion
Interest on debt incurred in past wars $109.1–$431.5 billion

An inefficient government roads program gets you roads, even if they lead to nowhere you'd like to go.
An inefficient welfare program gets you welfare, even if the people only get a dime of every dollar.

I'm not convinced I'm getting anything from our self-inflating military machine. We spent trillions on wars. We'll spend trillions more on interest for those wars, not to mention the better part of a trillion just to maintain our military.

And the only thing I can see that we've purchased are a lot more enemies.

Maybe it's all a sad, poorly illustrated comedy, but I can't blame people for preferring government cheese over government high explosives.

I can't follow any conservative cost-cutters unless their first cut is to Murder, Inc.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:03 AM

BYTEMITE

Social Security is self-funded and does not add to the debt, though that's not to say there aren't problems with it relative to age demographics and trends.

It's strange to me to hear someone say that Social Security is not a problem. People are paying into a program that they will very likely receive no benefits from when they reach the age of retirement... Though privatizing it would likely make things worse.

Don't like homeland security or the wars we've been fighting, and I hold democrats and republicans equally to blame for the current problems.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:04 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I can't follow any conservative cost-cutters unless their first cut is to Murder, Inc.

--Anthony

Conservatives are the only ones looking to cut anything. Democrats and Republicans, both, want to expand the size of govt. That's the problem.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:13 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Anthony,
You are aware that GDP has nothing to do with the money that the government operates on? It stands for Gross Domestic Product. A sum calculated before costs of production are deducted. That's the whole ball of wax as far as our country produces.

Hello,

Yes. And the GDP growth rate averaged ~2.66 from 2001-2007

And it averaged ~.43 from 2008-2010.

So we had a spending increase at the same time our GDP was stagnating, compounding the effects of the comparison. I believe this is largely the result of stimulus efforts.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:14 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I can't follow any conservative cost-cutters unless their first cut is to Murder, Inc.

--Anthony

Conservatives are the only ones looking to cut anything. Democrats and Republicans, both, want to expand the size of govt. That's the problem.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Hello,

Cutting butter while doubling down on guns ain't conservative enough for me.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:17 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Cutting butter while doubling down on guns ain't conservative enough for me.

--Anthony

As long as Obama stops sending guns across the border to Mexican drug gangs, that'd be a nice start.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:25 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Cutting butter while doubling down on guns ain't conservative enough for me.

--Anthony

As long as Obama stops sending guns across the border to Mexican drug gangs, that'd be a nice start.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Hello,

And tea in Sri Lanka is way overpriced.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:37 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Before we start talking about the budget in any realistic terms we need to ask ourselves What do we want?. What do we want out of these expenditures, if anything? Do we want to police the world? Do we want to explore Mars? Do we want to rehabilitate the environment? Do we think that government can restore infrastructure and provide health care more efficiently than private industry? Do we want energy independence? Do we want to be in race to the bottom with every third-world nation?

What are our national priorities? How best do we get there? We can't have it all. We have to make choices.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:52 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Geezer

You don't find spending 80% of the budget on the military to be cartoonish? Now something about that is just downright unsettling.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 10:57 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Geezer

You don't find spending 80% of the budget on the military to be cartoonish? Now something about that is just downright unsettling.

Hello,

Kiki, that's not a percentage of the budget. It's a percentage of our national productivity.

So it's not A - B to get C.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

It's still a lot. 80% of our productivity goes to the military. That's just stupid. IMO.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:02 AM

BYTEMITE

Also, if it were the federal budget, this would be assuming that the other 80% is defense spending. In 2010 (according to wikipedia), 18.74% of the federal budget was spent on Defense.

It's still pretty high, and we're spending as much on defense as we are on medicaid and medicare combined.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:13 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's still a lot. 80% of our productivity goes to the military. That's just stupid. IMO.

That's absurd. Twice you mentioned that figure. It's no where near that much. How does one come to even think that's remotely the case ?

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think the graph is somewhat misleading. The spending that Geezer is pointing out is during an economic downturn that rivals that of the Great Depression. So in TRULY historic terms, the graph would look like a giant uneven "U", with the highest point being during the Great Depression and the second-highest point being at the this end of the timeline.

Now, in current rough numbers, the spending on Social Security, Medicare, the Pentagon, and "everything else" are all about equal: Social Security is somewhat over a trillion (and SELF FUNDED), Medicare in somewhat under a trillion (and SELF FUNDED), The Pentagon is somewhat under a trillion ... this is where your INCOME TAX goes, so think about THAT this April 15... and "all the rest" is less than that.

Like I said, we need to make choices.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Geezer's graph. Take it up with him.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:19 AM

BYTEMITE

AURaptor: The graph implies it... Albeit incorrectly.

I agree with Sig, I think the graph is misleading.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:25 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
AURaptor: The graph implies it... Albeit incorrectly.

I agree with Sig, I think the graph is misleading.

The beta site cuts off images on the right side of the page. Does anyone else have this problem ? I tend to ignore posted images if I can't see them in full.

Here's what I found...

( screw it, link was too long )

Point is, the info is out there, and clearly shows that, as a % of GDP, Defense is around 4-6%, not 80%.

I mean, it's not even as if someone had gotten the numbers inverted, but it's far worse of a mistake claiming 80% of either our budget OR our GDP. It's pure fantasy land, and nothing less.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:27 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

http://tinyurl.com/6nxpqjp

Hello,

This is the relevant image to be immediately concerned with.

Note that the Defense Budget doesn't include the
cost of current wartime operations. (Though I
couldn't tell you why, except the government
doesn't want you to know how much they're
spending on such things.)

So, in terms of merely maintaining our military,
(and not actually using it to do anything)
we're spending about as much to prepare
ourselves to kill folks as we are to saving
them. If you want to include actually killing
them, you can nearly double that figure.

Never mind the alphabet soup budget, which is
partially secret.

Anyone who looks at that and says, "Yup, let's
cut public welfare first" is the subject of
unmentionable feelings and unprintable words as
far as I'm concerned.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 11:40 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Here's another fun fact, regarding one of our
alphabet soup operations, the NSA.

Budget
_________
$26.6bn(1997)
$26.7(1998)
Other years=Classified

Who knows what we're spending there, considering
the budget was classified before 9/11, and we're
almost certainly spending more now.

The CIA also has a classified budget.

And how much of this gets classified as
"Non-Defense Spending" I wonder...

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 13, 2012 12:17 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Wow, this really took off, didn't it? Huh!

A couple of things:

Quote:
The role of support service contractors has increased since 2001 and in 2007 payments for contractor services exceeded investments in equipment for the armed forces for the first time.

Let's not forget those guys...is that part of the DOD budget?

Also:

Quote:
In a statement of 6 January 2011 Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates stated: "This department simply cannot risk continuing down the same path - where our investment priorities, bureaucratic habits and lax attitude towards costs are increasingly divorced from the real threats of today, the growing perils of tomorrow and the nation's grim financial outlook." Gates has proposed a budget which, if approved by the Congress, would reduce the costs of many DOD programs and policies, including reports, the IT infrastructure, fuel, weapon programs, DOD bureaucracies, and personnel.

You might also note that Obama's budget cuts military spending, along with raising taxes and cutting Medicare/SSI.

Anthony,

Quote:
While I won't duplicate the tone, I have to agree with the content of Mr. Raptor's response. Having been elected with a particular rhetoric, it is hardly surprising that these people wish to continue pushing towards these same issues. They are likely to do what works for them until it stops working for them. Only then will they change direction.

You go on to speak of important issues not actually being addressed (jobs, limited government) but that hardly matters. As long as they jump up and down and scream about such things, and that gets them votes, they don't actually need to succeed in doing any of these things. Again, not particularly surprising that razzle dazzle is the name of the game.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. I guess all I can do is hope it STOPS getting them elected...then maybe we can get back to real business (hey, I can dream!).

Beyond that, I'll just say Anthony and Sig pretty much say it for me. Got other stuff to do. Glad this discussion encouraged conversation.\

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Monday, February 13, 2012 2:15 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

RAPPY; The URL you posted is so long it stretches the page out. Can you please introduce some breaks in it... several well-placed spaces, for example... to force the URL to be displayed over several lines, as opposed to to taking up the maximum page-width?

Quote:
Sig, congrats on being utterly duped

Thank you!

Quote:
by the tyrannical far left into buying that...
A. The 'rich' have become that way only by sticking it to the poor

Ok, if the rich didn't get rich ONLY by sticking it to the poor, then why don't the rich STOP sticking it to the poor and see how long they remain rich? Yanno, do the opposite of what everything thinks is happening, and then demonstrate that they will still remain rich despite being open-handed and generous with their money?

Quote:
and...
B. Ignoring the cartoonish levels of spending that's going on , by the federal govt, and thinking that soaking the 'rich' will in any way positively help our mounting debt or will in any way remotely improve the lives of the rest of us, as more of our $ ends up in govt hands. And yes, OUR money, because it's not just the wealthy who are getting soaked under Obama, but every one of us.

Except the 90% who don't pay taxes. Wasn't that what you said not more than a few months ago? Are you now reversing yourself?

Yanno, American was extremely well-off back in the day, when the wealthy paid 90% marginal tax rates and corporations actually paid taxes. Those taxes were to replenish the coffers after WWII. I think it's time people realized you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want your bootprints all over the world, you have to pay for it. You can't lower taxes on the wealthy (yanno, the "job creators who are busy creating jobs... in China), invade countless nations, plant 1000 military installations all over the world, increase social spending, and reduce the deficit. The Laffer curve and trickle-down theory just never worked, even though we've tried it since before Reagan. It had a good run, we doubled down in that idea more than a few times. Nobody can say we didn't give it a fair shot, but look where we are!

Somebody has to be a grownup. Somebody has to offend Wall Street and the insurances. Somebody has to offend the military industrial complex. Somebody has to offend international financials. Somebody has to stop providing "aid" and start providing JOBS. I know it's hard... you need money to campaign, and look where all the money is. But there are plenty of honest people on the ballot besides crooked Dems and whacko Repubs, and if Ron Paul gets on the ballot as an independent, there will be one more.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 2:59 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Let's try an opinion poll, of several questions:

1) Out of every $100 that you pay in INCOME taxes, how much do you want to go to

The military
Homeland Security (the technical overseer of all of the alphabet-soup agencies except military intelligence)
Education, as direct funds to schools
The environment, like the EPA, clean water
Health (such as the CDC, FDA, and NIH research)
Clean energy, energy conservation, and energy independence
Infrastructural investment (public roads, bridges, sewers, dams, water lines etc)

For me, it would be
$20 for a solid energy program
$10 for the environment
$20 for education
$10 for infrastructure
$10 health
$5 assistance to the poor and disabled
$5 financial reform
$5 military
$5 intelligence
$10 paying down the debt

2) If you could, would you like to buy into Medicare for health insurance at a slight premium over cost?

Yes.

3) Social Security is solvent for now. Would you rather make minor changes to the program to continue projected solvency for the foreseeable future (roughly 75 years?) Or would you rather privatize the program?

Make minor changes to existing programs.

See? Choices.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 4:24 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
I know there is a name for a snake that eats itself.

Is there a name for a snake that gives birth to itself?

Ouroboros.
The war machine PRODUCES nothing, Anthony - save for the excuse to continue feasting on us.

Quote:
Never mind the alphabet soup budget, which is partially secret.

http://www.fas.org/irp/budget/index.html

Year......National.......Military.....Total.
2011....54.6 billion....24 billion.....78.6 billion
2010....53.1 billion....27 billion.....80.1 billion
2009....49.8 billion...26.4 billion....76.2 billion
2008....47.5 billion...22.9 billion....70.4 billion
2007....43.5 billion....20 billion.....63.5 billion

To do stuff like convince a bunch of losers to make impossibly crackpot plans while financing every single bit of it through agents provocateur, not to mention supplying actual terrorists with weapons and bombs.

Tell me, again, WHERE did Ramzi Youssef get the bomb he used on the WTC in 1993 ?
WHO wired it up for him ?

Cutting these parasites off would put a big dent in terrorism AND save us money.
Of course, last guy who suggested THAT was Kennedy.

Just sayin...

-Frem

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Monday, February 13, 2012 4:32 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Mine.

$15 for a solid energy program
$8 for the environment
$10 for education
$20 for infrastructure
$15 health
$15 assistance to the poor and disabled
$7 financial reform
$0 military
$0 intelligence
$10 paying down the debt

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Monday, February 13, 2012 5:01 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I do have to say that StoryMark's insults are indeed stuck in junior high, and not in a good way.

AU Raptor, as I recall, has made similar insults at others however so I don't know that he can be the one to call out Story and get away with it as easily as I can. I'm not saying I don't insult, I occasionally do, but I don't do it like that.

I don't think that the money spent on CIA stuff should be classified. I think the only reason it is is because people would be opposed to spending so much on it if they knew how high the number was.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:26 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

Which of course says nothing to absolve the cartoonish military spending.

Never said it did. Just noting that it's not ALL military, as SignyM suggested.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:42 AM