Do you want fake fries with that? by whozit

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Do you want fake fries with that?

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 21:48
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Monday, February 20, 2012 1:34 PM

WHOZIT

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9091628/Test-tube-hamb
urgers-to-be-served-this-year.html

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Monday, February 20, 2012 1:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I think I'd rather have grilled tofu.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 20, 2012 1:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Possibly someday the only cows or chickens around will be in zoos.

I think vat-grown meat is actually a good way to avoid issues with disease and contamination, but they need to get the source animals completely out of it. The described process still requires some slaughter. I won't consider the process viable until slaughter is no longer required.

Eating Beef, Pork, or Chicken that requires no animal suffering and minimal impact to the environment is a dream worth pursuing.

I'll eat tofu when I can't tell the difference between it and the usual contents of my Cuban sandwich. I think cloning meat will prove the simpler challenge.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Monday, February 20, 2012 2:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I think I'll wait for the replicator version.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 20, 2012 2:12 PM

WHOZIT

What if it mutates and trys to eat us! Did you see "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!"

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Monday, February 20, 2012 3:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Not just that, but with some development of the tech you could fine tune the "meat" to order - imagine a PERFECT steak, every time!

Plus the healthcare implications of developing this tech, finally ending our barbaric and haphazard catch as can transplant procedures when we can just clone new organs, or even bone, muscle and skin for burn victims and other trauma care cases...

I am VERY much a full steam ahead supporter of this notion.

Of course, the prize for me (other than potentially replacing all the busted up mechanical parts with cloned OEM equipment) is the concept of having a McNugget tree, cause that'd just be freakin awesome.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, February 20, 2012 5:23 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

And another Sci-Fi trope comes to reality. From Piper's carniculture vats to Heinlein's Mrs.'Awkins chicken, this has been around forever.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:09 PM

BYTEMITE

Grilled tofu doesn't actually lend itself well as a hamburger replacement, but you'd be surprised how well a big, nicely sauteed portobello mushroom cap works out.

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Grilled tofu doesn't actually lend itself well as a hamburger replacement, but you'd be surprised how well a big, nicely sauteed portobello mushroom cap works out.

I think Hobbits were on to something.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:10 PM

WHOZIT

All that money spend on stem cell research and they come up with a fucking cheeseburger, if they use embryonic stem cells can they come up with a plate of veal?

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Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:17 PM

BYTEMITE

It's currently difficult to create full scale organs. Cells attach themselves to a superstructure, and that plus protein gradients control the growth of the cells into something we'd recognize. To produce something useable, we'd have to know how to create a workable imitation of both.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:00 AM

CAVETROLL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I think I'd rather have grilled tofu.

I've had fried and grilled tofu in Kitsune Udon and Kitsune Miso. Pretty tasty, actually. (2 triangular pieces of tofu, deep fried or grilled and floated on top of the soup and noodles. They look like the foxes' ears.)

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:26 AM

BYTEMITE

Very true. Tofu in asian style noodles, and various imitation desserts, pretty good. I have it a lot. Just not really what I'd recommend for a hamburger substitute.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:32 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Texture is very important to me. Tofu might impersonate a mushroom, but it does a poor job of impersonating meat.

Until they improve the texturing of tofu, I'll have little use for it. Of course, texturing it properly might involve additives that would make it unhealthy anyway.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:44 PM

CAVETROLL

It isn't my cup of tea either. I have it at restaurants and I use silken tofu at home to make a fruit smoothie with. End of list. But, it IS protein. It isn't a complete protein, but that is an important leg in places where meat is not readily, or affordably, available.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:52 PM

BYTEMITE

Texture wise it depends on the kind of tofu.

But, actually, I'd agree, texture wise it isn't a lot like meat. But it doesn't mean it's bad for what it IS... If prepared properly.

Texture is somewhat important to me, like when I ate meat, dry flavourless chicken was the worst, and triggered my gag reflex. As do bananas.

Once you're used to not having meat, it actually starts to taste and texture-wise feel weird when you accidentally have it again. So it's not as big a loss as you might think.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:51 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I don't like tofu.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:07 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

textured vegetable protein is a soy based product that actually has a very meat (mince) like texture. It's not as widely available here as some years ago, because most vegetarians now no longer require meat like substitutes, but it is useful if you are wanting to cook more less meat for your family and they are not thrilled with non meat main meals.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... had grown small strips of muscle tissue from a pig's stem cells, using a serum taken from a horse foetus."

I used to do tissue culture. When I did tissue culture I used "fetal calf serum" generally called FBS from a company called GIBCO. No, I have no idea how they 'harvested' the serum from fetal calves specifically. There are some undefined 'growth factors' in fetal serum that haven't been completely concocted yet in a lab that one needs to grow tissues. So this isn't as animal-free as one might think.

Also, we don't yet know all the nutritional requirements for humans, a point SignyM has made a few times in the question 'where is the choline?'.

We are exquisitely evolved to a particular set of minerals, proteins, fats, carbohydrates, fibers, vitamins, (exertion, starvation, sunshine, sociality) and other as yet unknown factors. Not only do we not know everything we need, our current agriculture deprives us of the stuff we do know about. Plants have been selected for yield, transportability and looks - to the detriment of nutrition. The USDA nutrient database is undergoing extensive retesting and revamping to take that into account. Cows fed grains are not only sick themselves, but they store detrimental omega-6 fatty acids from grains rather than the beneficial omega-3 fatty acids from green plants. Our farm grown foods are not nearly as good for us as they used to be.

As one example, specifically, when it comes to beef, cows have multiple stomachs which allow them to start to break down grass (cows are grass-eaters, not grain eaters) - which is then digested by bacteria. These bacteria produce all sorts of vitamins (like B12), protein, and fats (especially odd-number fatty acids) not produced in mammal biochemistry. The cows then digest and absorb the bacteria, giving them - the cows - a unique nutrition profile not found in, say, pigs. Or fish, or shellfish or chicken or eggs. But these unusual fatty acids and vitamins have unique nutritional benefits. Do people even know what is found in a nutritious piece of beef? And is cloned beef for example going to recreate a truly nutritious food?

As another example, I did a study of mineral markers in seafood v terrestrial food to try to compare each food source to human nutritional requirements (as a way of deducing what environment we evolved in). If 'they' cloned fish, would they know what type of minerals to include? What sodium to potassium ratio? Or iodine to bromine? Would they be able to induce it to synthesize a healthful fatty acid profile? Would it have vitamin b12? Or choline?

What about cloned pig?

The point is we don't know WHAT it is we're trying to replicate. And if we don't know, how can we claim to have done it?

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