Crosses at Work = Human Rights? by Oonjerah

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Crosses at Work = Human Rights?

POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 16:32
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Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:32 PM

Christians have no right to wear a cross or crucifix openly at work, Government is to argue in a landmark court case. =>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-ri
ght-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

In a highly significant move, ministers will fight a case at the European Court of Human Rights in which
two British women will seek to establish their right to display the cross.

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Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

No skin off my nose. Just don't go crazy with it, and start wearing over sized Flava-Flav style religious symbols around you neck.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:54 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Europe is notorious for bossing people around about what they can and can't wear. Its just like saying women are not allowed to wear veils anywhere in public, even sillier because with veils the government could use a weak argument about seeing people's faces, which they can't do here. The whole thing is stupid, people need to mind their own business instead of trying to mind mine.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 12, 2012 4:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Oh, sure - you have the right to wear your little cross, and I have the right to wear my Flying Spaghetti Monster shirt, and someone else can wear their pentagram, and so on and so on.

I also reserve to right to fire back clever retorts when someone proselytizes at me in my workplace. If I sneeze and you say "God bless you!", I have a legitimate right to say, "No, thank you!" If you keep telling me "God loves you!", I *will* respond with "But he won't give you a reach-around!" in the same syrupy sweet voice. And if you insist on telling me "Jesus is coming!", don't act all surprised and offended when I respond, "Someone get him a towel!"

Ain't freedom grand?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, March 12, 2012 5:29 PM

OONJERAH

If Jesus were to return, my guess is, He'd let many preachers
know just how abominably they've misinterpreted His teachings.
That'd be worth seeing.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 6:13 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I once worked in a diverse workplace where I was forced to invent, "May the diety, dieties, laws, or forces you believe in bring you good health!"

Not a time-saver.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, despite my bias against most religions, I happen to be surprisingly tolerant PROVIDED THAT TOLERANCE IS RECIPROCATED.

And therein lies the rub, and why folks sometimes get the idea I have a hate-on for their belief.

Because they do *NOT* reciprocate that tolerance, they demand that I be tolerant of them, even when it's tooth-grittingly painful to watch the awful things they say and do in the name of their belief, but not one fucking ounce of tolerance comes back, save for rare exceptions.

Of course, some of those beliefs have intolerance FOR other beliefs as part and parcel of their nature and practice, and why the hell (pun ever so intended) would I accept or be tolerant of that ?

Tolerance is like respect, gotta give some, to get some, and if you want it all your way, I have none for ya.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I once worked in a diverse workplace where I was forced to invent, "May the diety, dieties, laws, or forces you believe in bring you good health!"

Perhaps you coulda got away with "May the force be with you!" - cause, yanno, nonspecific as to the force in question...

-F

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 3:58 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I once worked in a diverse workplace where I was forced to invent, "May the diety, dieties, laws, or forces you believe in bring you good health!"

Not a time-saver.

--Anthony

I always use "Bless you". Let the recipient fill in the deity blank as they choose.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:11 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Pardon me, but you need to specify " in England" or "in Europe". It may be parochial of me, but with all the religious nuts and political influence here in the USA, I thought this was a Republican campaign, a "war on Christmas" thing. I can hear Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich both ranting about this one, trying to use it to get into the White House. U S laws, the civil rights , civil liberties, and religious freedom situations are different here.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:20 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I once worked in a diverse workplace where I was forced to invent, "May the diety, dieties, laws, or forces you believe in bring you good health!"

Terry Pratchett's Diskworld is a fictional place where polytheism is practiced. His characters frequently consciously use the phrase

"Godsdammit!"

and less frequently, other expressions reflecting the plural nature of the Gods. Some are as clumsy as yours, or worse.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:04 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I once worked in a diverse workplace where I was forced to invent, "May the diety, dieties, laws, or forces you believe in bring you good health!"

I use "gesundheit." It's much more succinct, and leaves deities out of the equation entirely.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
they do *NOT* reciprocate that tolerance, they demand that I be tolerant of them, even when it's tooth-grittingly painful to watch the awful things they say and do in the name of their belief, but not one fucking ounce of tolerance comes back, save for rare exceptions.

I'm with you. It bothers me, too, when this extends to every aspect of life. You know, like, "I'm going to be a complete asshole, and everyone is going to be okay with that, but if you call me on it I'm going to cry foul and everyone I know will call you a bitch." I encounter this kind of attitude a disturbing amount, even more than I encounter a lack of tolerance for my opinions.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
If Jesus were to return, my guess is, He'd let many preachers
know just how abominably they've misinterpreted His teachings.
That'd be worth seeing.

Damn straight, THAT I'd pay money to see!

Also NewOld, right on regarding what you said. Different countries do different things, but I think we're right up there with Europe when it comes to intolerance...at least currently. We just--so far--have some things in place which prevent it getting out of hand. Like free speech, and the interpreting of wearing a veil as such. Tho' those who DO choose to face considerable prejudice in some places. If we keep on going the way we are, however, watch out. Scarlet letters, anyone?

I agree with Frem, and go beyond it. I give RESPECT where respect is returned, not just tolerance.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:07 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Europe is notorious for bossing people around about what they can and can't wear. Its just like saying women are not allowed to wear veils anywhere in public, even sillier because with veils the government could use a weak argument about seeing people's faces, which they can't do here. The whole thing is stupid, people need to mind their own business instead of trying to mind mine.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Thing is when you go to work your not doing your business, your doing your employer’s business. If they don't want to display your religious symbols they have that right. If you don't like it you have the right to find a new job.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:17 AM

FIVVER

Quote:
It states: “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.”

I don't see where the British govt. has a shred of a case here. This is a very strong statement of religious freedom. Nowhere does it even hint at the government's claim that only practices and observances required by the religion are covered.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:28 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Europe is notorious for bossing people around about what they can and can't wear.

It should be noted that the British government isn't trying to ban people from wearing crosses - it's just refusing to stand up for them when their employers do so.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:32 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Yes Quicko, if someone wants to wear a pentagram they have that right.

The only way this would make sense is if the workplace in question is under the ospaces of another religeon, like if its a Muslim organization, or if its Atheists R Us. Then I can see why they might have rules about that, fair or not it would make sense then. But if it isn't then I don't see how this relates to work.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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