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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Lesbian Woman Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral
Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:35 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:As her elderly mother was dying, Barbara Johnson lay next to her on the hospital bed, reciting the "Hail Mary." Loetta Johnson, 85, had been a devout Catholic, raising her four children in the church and sending them to Catholic schools. At her mother's funeral mass at the St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg, Md., a grieving Barbara Johnson was the first in line to receive communion. What happened next stunned her. The priest refused Johnson, who is gay, the sacramental bread and wine. "He covered the bowl with the Eucharist with his hand and looked at me, and said I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman and that is a sin in the eyes of the church," Johnson told ABC News affiliate WJLA. Her older brother, Larry Johnson, couldn't believe what he had seen. "I walked to the side of the church to console her, because she was clearly distraught," Johnson told ABC News. Larry Johnson said his sister, who has been in a committed gay relationship for 19 years, composed herself enough to give her mother's eulogy, but then he was shocked at what happened next. The priest left the altar, Johnson said, and didn't return until his sister was nearly finished speaking. Family members added that the priest failed to come to the grave site, and the burial was attended by a substitute priest found by the funeral director. Larry Johnson and his sister were outraged at what occurred on "what would already have been the worst day of my life," he said. They want the priest, the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo, removed from dealings with parishioners. They also believe he owes them an apology. "This isn't about gay rights and it isn't about Catholic bashing, it is simply about the conduct of a reprehensible priest," said Johnson. But the head of DignityUSA, a group that focuses on gay and lesbian rights and the Catholic Church, sees the incident as part of a wider problem. "The reality is, in some ways, it is very emblematic of the hierarchy's approach to gay people, transgender people," said Marianne Duddy-Burke. "There are little messages of rejection that happen all the time." Guarnizo did not return an email asking for a comment about the incident. The Archdiocese of Washington had no public comment about the priest's behavior, but issued a statement that indicated Guarnizo should have taken up the matter of whether Johnson could receive communion in private. "When questions arise about whether or not an individual should present themselves for communion," the statement said, "it is not the policy of the Archdiocese to Washington to publicly reprimand the person." The archdiocese said it is looking into the incident and that it would handle it as a personnel issue. Duddy-Burke of DignityUSA believes the response misses the point. "I would hope that it provides a wake-up call to church leaders to make them see where the extremes of their policy are leading," she said. "My concern is they will just see this as an isolated incident and fail to see the context." Both Larry and Barbara Johnson have received letters from the archdiocese of Washington apologizing "that what should have been a celebration of your mother's life … was overshadowed by a lack of pastoral sensitivity."
Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:43 AM
BLUEHANDEDMENACE
Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:45 AM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:55 AM
BYTEMITE
Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:10 PM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:15 PM
OONJERAH
Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:16 PM
STORYMARK
Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:08 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I guess its up to them. But I think its weird the way they have the priest give it to each person individually. At my church we pass it around and everyone who wants to take it can, and everyone who doesn't want to doesn't. If she came up to get communion then it shouldn't be his choice to give it or not in my opinion, but apparently that's how they do it there. I do think though that this particular time was a poor time to do this. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:11 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Oonjerah: That crossed my mind as soon as I read it, Anthony. Immediately, I realized that the deceased women must have been a Catholic, someone who always meant to be buried by the church in Holy ground. Perhaps her whole family is Catholic as well. There is no way this funeral would have been held elsewhere and without a priest. Barbara Johnson still considers herself a Catholic in spite of knowing that the Church sees her as fallen from grace. The priest was rotten. If he had even a bit of grace himself, he would have taken her aside quietly and said that he could not/would not give her communion. .
Friday, March 2, 2012 3:48 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: My atheist leanings aside, I have a dislike towards certain priesthoods and religious leaders simply because of their inability to see the broader picture. This religion believes in some manner of salvation after death, and taking care of the living so that they achieve salvation. They believe in offering ways to atone and get around the sufferings and tribulations of daily life, and represent a sort of comfort for the same. Given their stated goal and agenda, what do some of them do? Instead of reach out, they exclude, instead of save, they push down. Here is a shepherd who does not give a damn about his flock, only about his own self-righteousness. The holy man don't look so holy right now. Judge not lest ye be judged. That priest oughta tend to the plank in his eyes, because I've got a diabolic load of fiery judgment here and I'm full ready to use it.
Friday, March 2, 2012 6:16 AM
CAVETROLL
Friday, March 2, 2012 7:07 AM
Friday, March 2, 2012 10:42 AM
Friday, March 2, 2012 11:43 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I'm working on a sign, not sure how to word it and would love any suggestions (no, I mean REAL suggestions) on a related subject. "Sharia Law? No real danger. _______ Law? VERY real danger" Having trouble with the blank.
Friday, March 2, 2012 12:11 PM
Friday, March 2, 2012 1:01 PM
Friday, March 2, 2012 3:00 PM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Friday, March 2, 2012 5:30 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Hello, This is what a person gets for employing the services of a religious order which has repeatedly vowed to reject you. Any gay person who belongs to this order, contributes to this order, or employs this order in any capacity is a fool. Until the order reforms itself, rejected peoples should turn their backs on it, and excommunicate it from their lives. A religious order can conduct its services however they like, but were I rejected by such an order, I'd be damned if I'd let them into my life. Literally. It would be like marrying an abusive man. You know he's going to hurt you. --Anthony
Friday, March 2, 2012 8:03 PM
Friday, March 2, 2012 8:12 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: You don't seem to get that she was attending her mother's funeral, not embracing the church.
Friday, March 2, 2012 8:14 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Just don't try to force it down every Christian churches throats.
Saturday, March 3, 2012 4:11 AM
Saturday, March 3, 2012 1:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: You don't seem to get that she was attending her mother's funeral, not embracing the church. Hello, Details in the narrative make it clear she was doing both. --Anthony
Saturday, March 3, 2012 1:50 PM
Quote:B) outspoken atheists who are looking for yet another reason to knock religion down.
Saturday, March 3, 2012 7:29 PM
Quote:I went to a catholic funeral and took communion, but I don't consider myself Catholic or embracing anything to do with Catholicism. Just did it out of respect.
Saturday, March 3, 2012 9:09 PM
Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:33 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Quote:B) outspoken atheists who are looking for yet another reason to knock religion down. I'm saying this particular preacher has no idea how to do his job, and works at cross purposes to it. Also, he apparently doesn't even know his own scripture. I feel justified in pointing out how awful he is at being a holy man, and it's only too bad I can't do so to his face. He might actually become a better priest, Christian, and person if he'd only listen - which of course SHOULD BE what he does for his congregation, but it's not.
Sunday, March 4, 2012 2:13 PM
Sunday, March 4, 2012 3:47 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: For a supposedly old person you're doing a lot of talking. And for the record, yes, I am just aiming to call out the flaws of this not-so holy man in the interests of illumination. I can live with people being Christians, but when they're bad or incompetent at it I take issue. Did you notice me say that I think this women should stop believing what she does because of what one priest did? Noooo? Maybe it's because I don't think that. Maybe I don't think all priests suck, just this one priest and those with similar lack of competence. I generally grew out of baiting people with different ideas than me a long time ago. How about you?
Sunday, March 4, 2012 4:25 PM
Quote:It just seems that in these days that the "church" is an easy target. All you have to do is point out any bad example and the entire order is to blame because of scandals of the past.
Sunday, March 4, 2012 4:44 PM
Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Hello Six, I find your comparisons wayward and weird. It is the official policy of this religious order that these people be denied salvation. It would only compare to your corrupt park if the leadership was propagating their corruption to their employees, who echoed the corruptions in their daily deeds and practices. The misdeed of this priest was in adhering to the policies of his order fully and stating those policies plainly in an embarrassing fashion. Until the order itself changes its core policies, it is not merely an individual priest that must be opposed. That there are individual members of this order who reject its rules and embrace all comers is to speak of the exceptions. The order itself, its policies and practices, are foul. --Anthony
Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:40 PM
Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:45 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 6ixStringJack: Although, since church and state are seprated, no calls for any government action are warranted.
Quote:It's not as if these people are sawing off soldiers' heads for denying their religion.
Quote:If you don't like what they do practice, don't go there anymore and find a place more suitable to your delicate sensibilities.
Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:13 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Quote:Originally posted by 6ixStringJack: Although, since church and state are seprated, no calls for any government action are warranted. Hello, Diligent of you to argue against a policy I'm not advocating. Quote:It's not as if these people are sawing off soldiers' heads for denying their religion. No. We put a stop to the killings here... mostly. Quote:If you don't like what they do practice, don't go there anymore and find a place more suitable to your delicate sensibilities. Obviously. And when their foul policies arise in the public consciousness, speak out against them. --Anthony _______________________________________________ Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts. Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196 Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.
Monday, March 12, 2012 2:57 AM
Quote:Priest who denied communion placed on leave Sunday - 3/11/2012, 7:06pm ET GAITHERSBURG, Md. (AP) - A priest who denied communion to a lesbian at her mother's funeral has been placed on leave. A letter from an archdiocese official says the priest was placed on leave for engaging in intimidating behavior. The archdiocese has already apologized for the priest's actions at the February funeral in Gaithersburg. Barbara Johnson and her relatives, meanwhile, have asked the archdiocese to remove the priest. The archdiocese issued a statement after the funeral saying the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo's actions violated policy but any action against him would remain confidential because it is a personnel issue. Johnson's family issued a statement Sunday saying the letter doesn't pertain to the funeral, but they hope the action will ensure others won't suffer the same treatment.
Monday, March 12, 2012 9:58 AM
Quote:A spokeswoman for the archdiocese said the suspension was not triggered by last month’s alleged Communion denial, but by events involving the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo in the days since. The archdiocese “received credible allegations that Father Guarnizo had engaged in intimidating behavior toward parish staff and others that is incompatible with proper priestly ministry,” the archdiocese said in a Friday statement. “Given the grave nature of these allegations, and in light of the confusion in the parish and the concerns expressed by parishioners,” the statement continued, “Father Guarnizo is prohibited from exercising any priestly ministry in the Archdiocese of Washington until all matters can be appropriately resolved with the hope that he might return to priestly ministry.” http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/12/priest-who-allegedly-denied-communion-to-lesbian-placed-on-leave/?hpt=us_c2
Monday, March 12, 2012 5:20 PM
Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:03 AM
Quote:Md. priest defends denial of Communion to lesbian GAITHERSBURG, Md. - A Gaithersburg priest is defending his decision to deny Communion to a woman at a funeral Mass because she is a lesbian. The priest has since been suspended. In a statement to the conservative website CNSnews.com, the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo said Barbara Johnson introduced another woman as her "lover" during a Feb. 25 funeral for Johnson's mother. "Openly confessing sin" should be done in a confessional and not before Communion, he said. He said he then quietly withheld Communion. Guarnizo said that the incident was a "warning" to the church and that he's confident he did the only thing a "faithful Catholic priest could do." In announcing his removal, the Archdiocese of Washington cited allegations that Guarnizo intimidated parish staff. Guarnizo denied that, saying he was removed after trying to obtain written comment about what happened from the funeral director and a parish staff member. Johnson's family called Guarnizo's response "arrogant" and "deceitful." Johnson said he is politicizing her mother's death.
Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:30 AM
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