Are women people? by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Are women people?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 16:00
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VIEWED: 10769
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Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Wow, Mal4, no wonder I like you! We've got TONS in common! How tall are you, by the way? I LOVE meeting other tall women! My physical appearance separates me from "normal" women in that I'm almost 6' tall, and that makes me "big" as well (big boned). I don't think of myself that way, but when I catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror with other women I'm reminded, and when others talked about weighing 125 and feeling fat, 160 would be my "perfect" weight.

I'm 5' 10" - not quite as tall as you! I'm got those "eastern European child-bearing hips" as my sister calls them, but otherwise I'm fine boned for my height. Ah hell... this is easier:

It's several years ago (like 15 years - yikes!), but I look pretty much the same now. I think I've actually gotten a lot better as a dancer.

I have seen the pictures of younger you, and I concur with the fellas. Total hottie!

Quote:
I've explained the only reason I got married; otherwise I never would have (nor would Jim have cared if we didn't). We diverge some at sports--I'm a hiker, but never got into "regular" sports. But I have run and/or hiked every single trail on Mt. Tam.

I do like hiking and would do more if I lived where you do. I took up running last summer because I'd put on a few more pounds than I liked. I hate running, but I love feeling in shape and strong, so I've stuck with it. I have a decent route that goes through a park on the coast of the LI Sound.

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In my working life, I went the whole nine yards, color-coordinated outfits, jewelry (only earrings, tho')--and wore 6" heels! Have every Austen book/movie. Don't wear anything but shorts and t-shirts anymore, but at 63, who gives a shit. I still OOGLE stuff and think "I wish..." but there's nowhere to wear that stuff anymore.

My gawd - how did you walk in those? I do pretty well up to about 3", then it gets tough...

I have an issue with pretty dresses. I try them on and then I have to buy them, including a $500 designer ball gown, like serious night at the opera stuff, that I got for $100. How could I resist? I may actually have a place to wear it next month, a fancy social event in the city. Could be fun. It involves ballroom dance and a nice dinner in a fancy place. The crowd is weird though - not my kind of weird. I went to an event with this group before and it was a bit confusing, with some swarmy rich older men oogling beautifully coifed younger women. Ick. But there were some nice people too, artists and musicians. I'll give them one more try just so I can wear my pretty dress. :)

A-hem. Slight tangent there.

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MY dancing was folk dancing, which I did heavily for years. I miss it horribly, but bod won't let me anymore. I never went "pro", tho' we had a small group (called the Niki Beecher Dancers until we could come up with a name), and we played small venues, street fairs and the Ren Faire, among others.

That sounds awesome! I'd enjoy something like that. I did an outdoor concert of Isadora Duncan dance once, at a Lilac Festival. So nice!

Quote:
Me to a "T"...women never tried to tear me down, but more than a few said I "intimidated" them.

Oh, I was pretty brutally bullied in a few situations, one of which in particular was quite awful. Women can be so mean.

Quote:
For me, it was because of my height and feeling "abnormal" all my life. I wore bell bottoms I made myself, since no women's clothing has ever been long enough for me.

I totally hear you! It took me a while to learn how to avoid pants that are too short. Maybe that's why I love skirts so much. No worries about finding a good length. But I still have the issue that my body is quite long, so dress waists tend to ride high.

Sewing your own clothes is the way to go. I used to sew, but don't have a machine now.

Quote:
Clothes and shoes are entirely to claustraphobic; I've worn sandals year round for decades.

Seriously! I love sandals and strappy dresses, neither of which are allowed at school. I do push the line there a bit when it's hot, but not too far. I'm teaching teenaged boy after all. But I love summer, when I'm free to wear what I want. I do wonder sometimes why the hell I live where there's winter. Why can't NYC get moved further south? Well - I guess climate change might essentially fix that for me...

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I have always preferred the companionship of men--tho' that isn't that unusual for women. I had my share of romance and sex before getting together with Jim, and I AM a cougar (mentally).

LOL! I'm totally not into younger men. Men in their 20s annoyed me when I was that age. (No offense to any present here.) I'm glad to be beyond frat boys! Though, I never found appearance attractive. Even movie star crushes like with our own Mr. Fillion. I didn't find him attractive - pretty, but not attractive - until I found out what a fan-loving dork he is. Then I was in love LOL!

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starting new relationships is just too much work.

Amen!

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The other "un-female" things about me are I've ridden motorcycles since I was 16 (tho' it's wonderful to see how many women do NOW) and my work in animal rehab--there are some females who do, too, but the hard work has always been mostly dominated by men.

I'd love to get a motorcycle. My last serious boyfriend had a bike, but I didn't much like riding on the back. It was nice to hug him, but I was always cold, my butt hurt, and I got bored. I think I'd like it better if I was driving.

Quote:
I experienced that; Crazy California or not, it exists here too. As I've written here before, my legal name was Sandra, and in the '60s in California (and other places) that meant "Sandy" (which I DESPISE), and you were supposed to be short, petite and blonde (Sandra Dee). Since I was none of those (in spades!), once on my own I changed it to Nikovich, "Niki"--which internally to me sounds masculine (especially as Nikovich means "Son of Nick"), but I realized in time that to others it's "Nickie" and seems feminine.

Good choice! I can't imagine you as Sandy. I wish I'd changed my name to my middle name, because "Mary"is too boring for words. Oh well, too late now, I'm used to it.

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I can only imagine what you went through (still go through?) being a female scientist--no doubt similar to what my best and oldest friend, Paula, went through becoming one of the first female park rangers at that time (and SHE's a lot like us in so many of those ways, too).

Well, it went both ways. I actually got a ton of encouragement and support because I was rare - an American female who's good at physics. I got a some funding by default in grad school, because there were no others American women. But there challenges a'plenty too. I still haven't quite figured out how to define them. I read a book of essays by women in science that really rang true, and made me think I should essay out my own experiences. Haven't done it yet.

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As to the lesbians, never been included in a group, but in my case, I discovered late in life that I AM bisexual, have always had cruses on female movie stars, etc., and found sex with a woman ten TIMES better than sex with a man.

I did kiss a girl once. It was nice, but not a big deal. I've never been attracted to women, but then I'm rarely attracted to anyone. I don't rule it out, since I think I'm equally likely to fall in love with a woman than with a man - both odds are near to zero LOL!

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 6:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Neat-O! I'm actually only an inch-plus taller than you....I got so sick of saying "five eleven and three quarters" I just say "six feet". Probably shrunk below that by this age!

Interesting...I thought being tall was a bad thing for ballet, at least I got that impression. I did modern dance in high school and LOVED it, but my heart belongs to folk dancing...sigh. How I WISH...! Used to dance at this really neat old courtyard at Stanford. Big old stone church, we danced rain or shine (tho' the skirts got pretty heavy in the rain!!), with flavored rum toward the end of the evening. Once I moved to Marin, the only folk dancing was an "adult class" and the drive was too far to go over to Berserkeley or back down to Stanford. Some of the best times of my life, folk dancing...

Wish I could see your face closer, you look pretty... And you sure look happy in that photo. The expression on your face is exactly what mine used to be when folk dancing.

Ahhh, you've never run trails I take it? Jim has run all his life (still IS, tho' slowly, at 73!), so I tried to get into it. HATED it, track was horribly boring and streets no fun at all. The I discovered trails, and I was off. How I adored it, and of course I always had dogs to keep me company. Miss THAT real bad, too.

I understand about dresses...a while back I found a store in Berserkeley and fell in love; Morroccan-type stuff, layered and long skirts. I still have a closet FULL of the damned things, but nowhere to wear them now, and dressing up is just too much hassle. Spent a lot of money there, dammit, and I sometimes miss wearing that stuff. Catching a glance at myself in a window as I passed was a bummer...they all looked so great in pictures and on those young models, but on me, bulky. Didn't matter, I loved the feel of 'em anyway and the world's opinion can go to hell.

Hee, hee, hee, I'll BET you know what I mean about pants! I long ago gave up on women's pants and bought men's...of course now it doesn't matter. I have NEVER worn a dress, like you said, the waists always came up under my boobs, so I was exclusively a "skirt and blouse" woman during my working life. I've never seen a "dress" that would fit me!

I can't sew. My mom was all but a professional, she made doll clothes when I was really young that would knock your socks off. Made her sad that I switched over to horses young rather than dolls, she used to love dressing me up in the wondeful clothes she made when I was real young. But she couldn't cook: a meat, a vegetable and a bread constituted almost any meal, while I used to LOVE cooking and did a lot of Chinese and Indian. Not any more, tho', as Jim eats a lot of beans and stuff he makes himself due to his arteriosclosis (SP?) and I hate vegetables (except artichokes, which FINALLY came into season so I'm living on 'em). I also embroidered really intricate stuff for years and years (had a booth at the Ren Faire with a fellow folk dancer for several years), but I can't sew to save my life. Seriously.

Well, we diverge at seasons, I'm a Winter girl through and through. I adore rain (and we just had some monsoon-like thunder showers last night that had my jaw on the floor!), and people are always saying "aren't you FREEZING?!?!" when they see me wandering around in shorts and a t with sandals (tho' I do wear socks in Winter). It's partly that I sleep outdoors, so I acclimate faster than others, but I've always adored rain and wind and storms. I've been in seventh heaven the last few days...we FINALLY got the kind of storms we usually get first of the year. Too late for a lot of the crops, but I've sure loved it. Except that I've had to cover all the damned demonstration signs in plastic...bah...but so far we've been lucky and only demonstrated once in hard rain. Thought we were gonna do today, but the rain stopped late last night, thankfully.

As to cradle robbing, it was their looks, I wasn't much interested in their brains back then. Jim was only the second guy I ever went with who was older than I, and he's TEN YEARS older, so it's weird I ended up with him. But then again, by then I was interested in the whole person... I still oogle the "babies", but that's all.

You should definitely try motorcycles, they're wonderful! I never could stand riding on the back...borring!...but riding my own (which I ALSO haven't been able to do for a year now because of a screwed-up wrist). Jim and I did a lot of riding in the back country when we had the pizza parlor, and he only recently gave up riding his bike to work in the City (which always scared me). I rode into work too when we worked at the same place, then took to bicycling, which was neat...I'd go through Fisherman's Wharf real early when it was just me and the delivery trucks and the aroma of baking sourdough! So much has gone by the wayside; thank gawd I have the huskies to keep me from being depressed, my life has gotten so narrow because of the old bod falling apart. Sad that I got Tashi, and right before he arrived, I broke the wrist! Haven't been able to do my old physical stuff ever since (knee went, then back went, and on and on); I had figured I'd be doing a lot of hiking with my new husky. Ended up getting a second one so he has someone ELSE to wear out, and bought a sulky to give them enough exercise. Life is ironic, if nothing else!

You definitely SHOULD write essays, give other women going into the field the same sense of not being alone that those essays did for you. I'm sad you got bullied, yes, women can be real bitches, I'm lucky none of them ever went after me. I'm sure things were said behind my back, but once I came into my own I've never given a shit about other people's opinions. People I CARE about can hurt me, deeply, but not strangers or my enemies, their opinions roll off my back.

As to any other relationships, not for me! I long ago decided if Jim goes before I do, I'll never go through that again...far too much work for the rewards! If I ever did, it would be a woman; I find men attractive still, but women are so much easier to get along with, our brains and emotions work more the same, and they "grok" sex! But then, I never had a really long relationship until Jim, and being older and having come from Idaho, he really had that "male" mentality, which, thank gawd, went through a major change a few years back and now he's just wonderful. But he still doesn't "get" me, and there's a lot of acceptance on both sides.

Neat we have so much in common, wish you lived closer, would be fun to meet you. Ahhh, well... Sorry to thread jack, folks, but then, this thread IS about women as people...

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Indeed it is, and I have to chime in regarding the nostaligia and melancholy of ones primary social interaction being at the remote of the internet...

You *DO* have, and make, new friends - you got us, don't you ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 6:40 AM

MAL4PREZ

Hey – it’s not a threadjack when it’s your thread, right? LOL!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Interesting...I thought being tall was a bad thing for ballet, at least I got that impression.

Definitely, the ballet stars are mostly little-bitty. 95 lbs is a lot easier for men to throw around than 140! Some non-Balanchine companies do have taller women, since they’re not tied to the tiny woman, big strong man roles than Balanchine developed. To be fair, the female lead in Balanchine’s Rubies is usually 5’ 9” or so. The tallest woman in the company gets her chance to come forward when they do that piece.

OK, but there is a difference because of height. I’ve seen the physics behind it: tall means big feet means you need more time to clear the ground which means it’s physically impossible to do those fast little jump combinations so fast when you’re tall. There’s also the issue of long limbs and angular inertia… That’s my excuse! Although, on occasion I encounter a 6 foot ballerina in class who just rocks, so good technique is good technique.

I’m pondering Irish dance. I went to a recital by a friend’s young daughters yesterday, who are a school of traditional Irish dance. So cute! I think it’d be super fun to be able to hop through a reel. The foot/leg action seems to use the same kinds of strength as ballet, so I think I’d learn it pretty quickly. It’s on my list of things to try this summer.

Quote:
Ahhh, you've never run trails I take it? Jim has run all his life (still IS, tho' slowly, at 73!), so I tried to get into it. HATED it, track was horribly boring and streets no fun at all. The I discovered trails, and I was off. How I adored it, and of course I always had dogs to keep me company. Miss THAT real bad, too.

I did jog the Appalachian trail a bit when I lived near it, but I find the avoidance of tree roots really exhausting, and I’m paranoid about turning an ankle. I broke my foot two years ago in ballet class – landed wrong just once, and I’m still dealing with the after effects. Foot health is no joke!

That’s sad that you can’t find dresses to fit. I find certain cuts work all right, though I will never be able to do little mini dresses. They become VERY mini dresses on me, with the mid-thigh length becoming a butt-cheek show. Not good!

How funny, that you live in CA but love winter. That’s weird!

Bizarrely, I find CA too cold. It’s always cold at night, and no one turns on the damned heat. I spent some time in the bay area, a summer and a winter/spring semester, and I’ve never been so continually cold. You sleep outside? At home? That’d be nice. I’d go for that. You must not have mosquitoes!

I do love storms. That is one thing I miss about the Midwest. Especially Texas. I spent a summer there, in Dallas, and I fucking hated it except those lightening storms. Man, they were good! I do love a good blizzard too, which we had none of this year. There’s something great about settling in at home for a day or two while the snow piles up. We had some good ones last year.

I’m seen the pictures you posted of the sulky. I think that’s just so cool, and the dogs look so happy. I’m not a dog person as in I don’t want one of my own, but I do enjoy seeing happy dogs.

OK, I’m feeling restless today. It’s so nice out! I need to get out and about a bit. Definitely, if we’re ever on the same side of the country, we should get together! I'm probably going to Seattle this summer to visit another friend I met when I first joined fff, many years ago.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 9:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup...the old (incorrect!) quote from Mark Twain: "The coldest Winter I ever spent was a Summer in San Francisco" fit. Even tho' he never said it. We don't have "real" seasons like others think of them, it can be hot any time of the year and it's almost coldest in Summer. It's the fog. People in the City don't know how to handle a really hot day, it's funny to see them walking around in their usual sweaters and coats...!

Marin is warmer; I'm not sure why, I guess our hills, 'cuz when you drive North from the City, with each set of hills the freeway goes over, it gets warmer. Summer is our "Fog Season"; Spring and Fall we don't get ANY, and then we get wind (oh joy). Today it's blowing like hell outside, and once the rain left, it turned cold (cold to us is 40s). You hit our two coldest seasons...our "Summer" is really August-September, what they call "Indian Summer". During what other people call Summer, we're socked in with fog...I always feel sorry for the poor tourists who don't know what to expect. Standing on the Golden Gate, wrapped in warm clothes (but not warm enough), wanting to take pictures of the City...but there's no there there! Winter is only a little bit colder than Summer, and that for only a couple of months.

And yeah, our thermostat is set to 60 and pretty much never goes above that. We may turn it up on a really cold day to warm up the house, but it goes back down the minute the house is warm enough.

I built my own Outback after one Summer night sleeping outdoors. Never slept indoors again. The first few years it was a hodgepodge and I fought the Winter storms to keep it dry and upright, then Jim bought me one of those canvas "pavillion"-type things (dunno what you call 'em). Toss a big clear plastic tarp over it to keep out the rain, and I'm happy as a clam year 'round in my little double bed.

I miss thunder and lightning storms...we got them when I grew up down on the Peninsula, but we don't get 'em much in Marin--they seem to go out on the Bay and we're lucky if we get one or two a year--big thrill! I don't "do" snow, tho', so it's a good thing I live here! Too claustrophobic, I wanna be OUT THERE.

The physics of tall ballerinas makes sense. I never thought beyond the difficulty of men lifting them, but the rest never occurred to me, and it makes sense. Irish dance would be FUN! We did some old-English country dancing, but most of ours was Croatian, Bulgarian, Russian, Israeli, etc.--that area. Lots of fancy footwork, line and circle dances, not much couples' dancing. Paula couldn't find folk dancing when she moved to the Sierras, either, so she and her husband switched to Western style line dancing. I'd LOVE to do that; every time I see it on TV my toes start twitching. Irish step-dancing would be cool, if your legs could take it...I imagine yours wouldn't have a problem, since there is NO dancing that is as tough on the legs as ballet!

Hope you enjoyed getting out...we just got back from the dog park and I have NO intentions of venturing forth any further! Windy as hell (kept waking me up last night thinking the tarp might blow off, and even unnerved the dogs a bit) and cooold (our kind of "cold", of course!). Good day to snuggle inside!

Yeah, if you're ever out this way, tell me before you come; we can put you up for a couple of days and I'll show you Marin. Really beautiful here--especially in Spring, when it's still GREEN! We live for Spring.

Yup, Frem, you guys are my only "friends" now...the internet is cool, you can walk away from it, nobody expects you to visit or return the favor of dinner, you don't have to go anywhere, and if someone pisses you off you just don't have to "speak" to them anymore!

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 11:57 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

reading all this with interest.

I suspect a lot more people, both men and women, struggle to come to terms with 'what being male/female really means' especially if you don't feel comfortable with the stereoypes, which where I live, form some pretty narrow parameters no matter which gender you are.

I idenitify with a lot of stuff that both you and Mal4 have been saying, not the same experience as mine, but similar flavour. I looked at the fashions in my late teens and decided I hated them and they looked ridiculous. I tried all sorts of things, including ripped grunge and shaved head - but my favourite was wearing retro vintage fashions, particular dresses from the fifties and sixties. You could pick up awesome stuff for a song in those days, whereas you'd pay big money for it all now. There were a lot of competing voices telling you what you should do, and I often found the older feminists were as dogmatic as the conservative women. "Is that lipstick you are wearing? [lecture follows]

Now I've kind of fit into who I am comfortably. I pick which bits to be girly about - lipstick - yes, removal of all bodily hair - no and generally don't give a stuff about what anybody says.

I hate the way many women talk endlessly about their weight, even intelligent women. I remember once losing a whole lot of weight because I was so miserable, and women would compliment me on how I looked. I thought, this is incredible, I feel like throwing myself off a bridge, but hey, who cares as long as I'm skinny enough.

niki, what is an Outback? We are thinking of covering in our verandah to make another room - its called a Queensland Room here, kind of half indoor/outdoor. Is it like that?

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:54 PM

OONJERAH

Last night, we got our first, and I hope, only snow of the winter. (El. abt 2400 ft)
I am always ready for spring as of Feb 1, and also enjoy the hot summers.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Magons, oboyoboy do I know what you mean about women and weight! I never had to diet until I was in my thirties, having a high metabolism and being so tall, and when I tried, it was AWFUL! Took me over a year to lose thirty pounds...which of course I put back on over time. I HATE what it does to young girls AND women, to feel "less than" unless they FEEL they're the right weight (which is usually too skinny anyway). I'm about 50 lbs overweight now--lost 30 when I got sick and was thinking of losing the other 20, but said "to hell with it" 'cuz I knew it would mean watching everything I ate for the rest of my life, so eventually I put it back on. That sounds like a lot, but when you figure my "optimum" weight is 160... I don't really give a shit; Jim loves me the way I am and I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks.

As to the Outback: It isn't "an Outback" (which is a car, or YOUR outback, which is where my term comes from). I call it that because I don't have any better name for it. It has a canvas cover held up by four metal posts, they come in all kinds of variations. I don't know if you have anything like it, and I can't offer a good photo of the outside, as it's all surrounded by vegegation. Best I can do for now is:

Inside the "ceiling" looks like this:

The interior:

These were taken back in 2003, so it doesn't look anything like that anymore. In other words, this was back when it was new (jezus, I can't believe it's been that long since Jim got it for me!). In other words, it's a lot older (and messier) now!

Mine is situated about 30 feet from the house in the back yard, out by the hot tub, and it's where I sleep every night, and sometimes in Summer do my flower-pot and hanging-pot planting, rather than in front of the TV.

What you're describing sounds kind of like what we might call a "sunroom". Your idea of covering your verandah would create something much like my Outback, only attached to the house. I can't recommend such ENOUGH, believe me...falling asleep to the cold night air with the stars overhead (the head of my bed juts out just beyond the canvas), waking up to the sound of birds and crisp morning air, sleeping snugly while the rain pours on the overhead tarp or hunkering down under the comforter while the wind whistles...it simply cannot be beat! Sleeping indoors (I did for a couple of days a few years back, in England when I went to visit Jo) seems horribly claustrophobic to me now, the air is stale and I'm surrounded by (yuck) WALLS!

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

There are some awesome women who come here. Between you all is a treasure of experience, wisdom, insight, knowledge and learning.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:17 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Looks gorgeous, Niki, but I don't think it would survive our climate or our possums. We get lots of torrential downpours here and wild winds which bring down a lot of deadwood from trees. Our house feels flimsy enough.

Queensland rooms are a lot like sunrooms, only they can be converted back to verandahs by rolling up the plastic panels. The thing I would like about them is that you can make them mosquito proof, and have an indoor heater or chimenea so that you can use them all year round. It would give us a lot more usable space as our house is quite cottagy and small. Lovely in summer, but claustrophobic in winter.

That looks an awesome garden as well, Niki. You have put a lot of work into where you live.

Yeah, weight! Sigh. I've been climbing steadily in weight over the past 10 years even though I am a very healthy eater. I tailed off on the exercise a couple of years ago which has made a huge difference, so now I'm back to swimming and yoga and walking, something everyday. I noticed how much my joints have suffered by not doing enough. I have to also accept that I just can't eat what I like anymore and have to watch the carbs, which I love. On the plus side, I FEEL better for moving more.

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Monday, March 19, 2012 2:24 AM

MAL4PREZ

Niki - what a seriously dreamy spot! I'd love to have that. I'm big into gardening, and having an outdoor room like that would be just fantastic! Someday, in my retirement home in Tuscany...

I admit I spend more time thinking about weight than I used to. It's not that I think I'm overweight, because I'm not! It's dance. People are so damned skinny in class! Well, it's like with the height thing: if you've got good technique, extra weight doesn't matter. Me, not great technique. So the extra 20 lbs I was sporting last spring bothered me. Lots of exercise and lots of healthy food took care of that. It was hard work though.

Swimming is great, Magons. I could be into that if I had a pond nearby. I hate chlorine! I don't do well with yoga because of a wrist problem - all that downward dog kills me. Pilates is more my thing.

Another 70 degree day. This weather is crazy! I'm going to go into the city early and walk about a bit...

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Monday, March 19, 2012 6:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, I kind of figured an Outback wouldn't work Down Under, which is why I put up pix so I could show you, 'cuz describing it doesn't work. I think your idea is right for you. We do, by the way, have mozzies (hence the netting), but when we have drought years, like we've had for a while (barring last year), we don't get any, and we don't get MANY anytime. What we get in Summer is yellowjackets, and they're a real bitch! I gave up working out there for the most part because it was too hard to work under the netting during the day to keep them out.

I'm actually a lousey gardener, most of what I do is hanging plants. But when a perennial gets too big for the pot, I gotta do something with it, so I stick it in the ground. It's a hodge-podge, but it's the best I can do. I love color, and I'm so limited in what I can do anymore, I get joy out of it.

I got Jim a smaller Outback which we put up behind mine. He didn't use it much, and last Winter he didn't pay attention and it was collapsed because of rain. Pissed me off. I have to keep an eye on mine in torrential rains like we had the other day, and I had to do some repairs then. The anchors at one end had come loose, so the rain pulled the tarp and when I went out there was this HUGE bubble right over the head of my bed. Try moving that much water! I got it fixed, but now there are some little holes I had to patch, so I'll have to buy a new tarp. The photos were obviously taken in Summer, and I really should take some new ones. It doesn't look all that spiffy anymore, believe me (!), but yes, I do adore it. I also built a small pond right outside, with a tiny waterfall and four goldfish, so I also get to hear the sound of water when I'm in bed. I feel totally spoiled!

You guys DO bear in mind that we put on weight as we age, yes? I think that's virtually impossible to get around unless you make your life's work staying thin! Most women worry too much about it, thanx to our culture and advertising, unfortunately. I remember when Spain outlawed those ultra-skinny women from the runway, and I applauded them for it. But there's no changing America any time soon, if ever!

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Monday, March 19, 2012 7:44 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Some age-related weight gain in women may be due to hypothyroidism.

http://www.endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/Hypothyroidism/

About 4.6 percent of the U.S. population age 12 and older has hypothyroidism.

Women are much more likely than men to develop hypothyroidism. The disease is also more common among people older than age 60.

http://www.dcmsonline.org/jax-medicine/1999journals/january99/thyoid.h
tm

Most studies suggests an average prevalence of hypothyroidism in 10-20 percent of women. The higher range occurs most in women above the age of 65. It is estimated that one out of eleven women will become hypothyroid in their lifetime.

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Monday, March 19, 2012 10:23 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I've always been baffled by the idea that womanhood is defined by more than being grown and having two X chromosomes (or Turner syndrome, which is more like XO). That is all womanhood is to me. there are 350 billion ways to be a woman, maybe a little more since I've heard that females outnumber males slightly in the world today. I never grew up with strong impressions about what it was to be a woman, sure my parents would say this or that occasionally, but it never affected my view of myself. So its really different for me to hear about the idea of someone not feeling like the typical woman, because to me there is no typical woman. I know that some people, and some societies are big on that though, which must be where the concern or anxt about it comes from.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 19, 2012 1:44 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I've always been baffled by the idea that womanhood is defined by more than being grown and having two X chromosomes (or Turner syndrome, which is more like XO). That is all womanhood is to me. there are 350 billion ways to be a woman, maybe a little more since I've heard that females outnumber males slightly in the world today. I never grew up with strong impressions about what it was to be a woman, sure my parents would say this or that occasionally, but it never affected my view of myself. So its really different for me to hear about the idea of someone not feeling like the typical woman, because to me there is no typical woman. I know that some people, and some societies are big on that though, which must be where the concern or anxt about it comes from.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

OK, so do you never watch TV or movies or listen to music and think: "OMG, what the fuck is this idea of *woman* and have the creators of this crap ever actually met a woman?" Have you never had people make assumptions about you based on your gender, so that you had to take some care in getting them past it?

Because that is what I meant by saying I'm not a "normal" woman, and note the quotes. I meant I'm not the stereotype. As none of us are, but the sad reality is that many of us face challenges, even amongst enlightened cohorts, because we differ from some stereotype. If you never have, I'm a little shocked, and either I wish I lived in your world, or I ponder if you are a lot closer to the stereotype than many of us, so that you've not had to face the blowback.

Which, BTW, the non-stereotype "blowback" is of course faced by men, and black folks, and yellow folks, and gay folks, and religious folks, and non-religious folks, etc... This thread was just a good place to discuss the woman stereotype.

ETA: because there may be misunderstanding, by you and by another poster further up, no one here - certainly not me! - is saying we think there should be such a thing as a "typical" or "normal" woman. What I'm saying is that I've encountered the "typical woman" definition from other sources, and I still do.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, March 19, 2012 5:36 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I know you're saying not that you feel like an imperfect woman, but that you feel that society looks at you ascance, even though they shouldn't. I don't really pick up on suttleties very well. So if someone doesn't come right out and say it I usually gloss over it. So it might be happening and I'm just not wise to it. I do know that men don't want me, they never have, I guess that's as close as I get to noticing it in my life. It bothers me that men don't want me, but I don't mind so much in the grand scheme of things, there are worse things out there. But its discouraging when the most annoying people you know can get boyfriends and you can't, even though you wouldn't mind having one. The thing is though that I'm pretty picky myself so maybe I shouldn't complain.

I wouldn't say I'm super girly, I'm feminine in some ways and not so much in others. I won't touch makeup except for performance purposes, and even that is rare. I rarely like wearing dresses or skirts, only for special occasions and for costumed events like Rennaissance faires etc. But I'm more feminine than my best friend, who has always been somewhat of a "tomboy" and still is.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:12 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I know you're saying not that you feel like an imperfect woman,

Ack! Edit to delete because I completely misread what you wrote... need to look at it again...

I'm sorry you feel that men don't want you. I can't guess as to what's happening there, not without knowing you better, but I imagine that you may surrounded by stupid men. Or at least, young and silly men.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:35 AM

FREMDFIRMA

*wiggles eyebrows at Riona*

I just HAD to do that, you know.

I get the stupid-sterotype stuff from the other end, one of my ex's favorite snarks at me is "You are SUCH a chick!" cause I can be a bit prissy, especially in regards to the state of my kitchen, or even hers... I've been known to get outraged and clean her kitchen or do the dishes she lets pile up just cause it rooks me so, and heaven help you if you leave a cabinet door open, that's SO much a pet peeve for me, ugh.

She's just pissed cause she has zero domestic skills, is what it is, hehehehe.

I could give a rats about stereotypes though, people is people, neh ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Regarding women and weight, this from Israel.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/new-israeli-law-bans-use-of-too-s
kinny-models-in-ads/

Go Israel!

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Egads, yes!

When I say I wanna jump some bones, I don't mean it literally!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:58 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Niki, I think it sounds like you have a great lifestyle and you choose to live exactly how you want to do so. I look forward to a time when that applies to me. At the moment we are in the mortgage, school fees, work hard period of life. It kind of takes it toll sometimes. I shouldn't complain, because we are better off than many, it;s just that right now it feels like a bit of a slog.

We're having renovations done to our house, some of which are essential to keep it from falling down, some of which we want so we can have a bit more space with our soon-to-be teenager. It's always more expensive than you anticipate, epecially as our house is about 80 years old and has some serious defects hidden under the plaster. Neither of us have the skills to deal with it (another stereotype to kill - not all men are handy) so we have had builders and other tradies wandering through for the past couple of weeks, while the price tag continues to rise.

Re the weight, I have accepted that its normal not to be the same as I was in my 20's which varied anyway, but I am simply not happy with where I am now. The difference is how hard it is to shift. The kind of behaviour change which would have led to an easy drop in 5 kg's just hardly makes a dent now. But my aim is to have more energy and fitter, coz I really feel like I battle a bit of permanent exhaustion at the moment.

Mal, I finally found a really great yoga teacher who encourages us all to listen to our bodies. Most people in the class have some joint issue ( have some arthritis) but she helps you work around it. It's quite gentle but quite profound at the same time. I know what you mean about swimming. I don't much like the chlorine either, but I love what swimming does to my body. Salt water pools are becoming more popular, so I might try and find one that is reasonably close by,

Ikiki, I have had my thyroid tested, and its not that. From speaking to other women, nearly everyone finds the same. If you want to be in shape after your 40's, you have to work pretty hard at it, both diet and exercise.

Rione, I suspect many men are actually quite underconfident about approaching a pretty young woman, and need clear signals that they might stand a chance with you, if not actually waiting for you to make the first move. Sometimes you have to give the right signals, or nobody knows that you're actually interested.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:55 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Double winks at Frem.

Hi Magon's, in my position giving signals and receivingthem is sort of like X Men, it sounds good but doesn't seem to work in reality. :) Plus I think lots of men are imtimidated by a woman who knows who she is and who she isn't.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 12:26 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, boy, Magons, does that sound familiar (the "toll")! I didn't actually choose to live exactly how I want to. Not knowing I was bipolar, I drifted into the corporate life. Being bipolar, I took on all kinds of things that weren't part of my job description, which wasn't healthy for me, and I should never have been in the corporate world in the first place. I wasn't dx'd until I was 48 and had a major crash, brought on by just the life I had been living--and THAT life was to make enough money to survive! The "work hard period of life" is what cost me the REST of my working life, dammit. I wish I could go back to what I was doing, you have no idea how much, but it was made real clear to me relatively quickly that a quiet life was not only saner but healthier, so I maintain it.

IF I had known, I'd have gone into another field, unquestionably. Even if I'd been dx'd or had a hint in my thirties, I had both the opportunity and the encouragement of professionals to go into animal training or animal rehab...wasn't enough money, I thought at the time, but knowing what I do now, man, I'd have HAPPILY lived on less. Jim even flew me to Thousand Oaks to investigate an animal-trainer facility down there, but I didn't want to make both him and Jeff relocate and, again, money...

In the end I paid for it. I ended up disabled--and believe me, I tried to get back into my usual profession several times before I accepted it--so now we pinch pennies and Jim is still working at 73 just to improve our survival chances when he can't work any longer AND to maintain our health insurance.

I choose to be a recluse in order to keep my bipolarity in check, along with medication. A quiet life is my best chance at survival. I work with my planting because it's a cheap hobby--the only thing I've spent money on was the sulky, and we saved for six months and broke into savings to get it, because my body started falling apart RIGHT after I got Tashi (our first husky) so I can no longer hike. That's part of the reason Jim let me get Kochak, so she could pull the sulky; there's no other way to get two young huskies the exercise they need, and Kochak alone can't pull the sulky. Hiking's another part of my lifestyle I've lost, but we get by, I take them to the dog park or we sulky, that at least allows me to get out! When I got Tashi, I had dreamed of hiking with him and all the trails I'd get back on (my previous dog had been too old and ill to hike for a couple of years). Woops.

And yeah, I have little doubt that by the time you're my age you'll have more choice in how you want to live. We got lucky--we bought our (crummy) house RIGHT at the end of the last housing crunch ('75), so it was (relatively) cheap. Jim decided to wipe out our savings and pay it off the very YEAR before first I, then he, was laid off from our jobs in the City, the last good jobs we each had. If we hadn't, we'd probably have lost the house.

So believe me, I know the "toll it takes"! I'm just grateful I have Jim, the dogs and my Outback; I don't really need much more to be, if not happy, at least at peace!

Yeah, weight gain when older is tougher. By the way, I have hyperthyroidism (it's common in bipolars), and come to think of it, it was once they put me on meds that I started gaining. That would explain why I stayed skinny until then. I never put them together...maybe I should go off the meds and see if it helps me lose weight! Huh...

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Monday, March 26, 2012 3:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Women are people for sure....

People can't be trusted.....

Therefore, Women, can't be trusted.

It's all about how high you're aiming for either sex. If you're with somebody that everyone would ask "how did he or she get with her or him, then you're on the abused side".

There's always that beautiful exception to the rule where two equals meet and live life together truly caring about each other, but 90% of relationships are all about "HAND". There's the dominant and the submissive. The one who is afraid they can't do any better even though this relationship sucks, and the vampire that feeds off of that.

I do believe in love at first sight, and I do believe in happily ever after. Unfortunately, against what Disney has poisoned us all to believe since we were old enough to understand 10 words, nearly NONE of us will ever experience that situation.

It's not about money, and it's not about looks, and it CERTAINLY isn't about FAME. (Any breif glimpse of OK Magazine will shoot all three of those down).

Some people just get lucky like that.

Who knows?????? Maybe they've lived a thousand lives before and just finally made that connection they were always meant to make.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Monday, March 26, 2012 3:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

but 90% of relationships

That matches up with what I've read. About 10% is true love, the rest is good enough to get married. Not sure if I agree with your assessment of the 90% though - some relationships are utilitarian like a lot of the Asian marriages I see in the workplace, some are friendly, some are based on commitment, and yes, some are toxic.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
but 90% of relationships

That matches up with what I've read. About 10% is true love, the rest is good enough to get married. Not sure if I agree with your assessment of the 90% though - some relationships are utilitarian like a lot of the Asian marriages I see in the workplace, some are friendly, some are based on commitment, and yes, some are toxic.

Interesting.....

I've never read anything on the matter, I've just based this off of my own failed relationships and the relationships of everyone I've ever known growing up.

It's nice to see that for the most positive thought that I'm right on par. I'm not surprised to see that I threw the entire 90% of everyone else into the pit though. I'm kind of a glass is half empty guy.

I guess I figure if you're not one of the 10%, why even bother?

I'm 32 and the most successful person I know at my age. Sure, I made some good decisions at the right time, and I had quite a bit luck, but I'm also a minimalist and am so insanely adverse to credit debt that I pay myself every day simply by not having the creditors ringing up the charges on a daily basis. The biggest thing that has put me in this position though is having not spent thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars courting girls the last 10 years, or 50k on a wedding, or locking myself into the up-to-$1 million per child commitment that having children today entails.

95% of the time I'm busy and making my life even easier for myself and I'm as close to anything people could call "happy" as you could get. I believe the word for that is Content.

Thank god Winter is over though.... Cold winter nights can be the brutal 5% of the time where the loneliness really kicks in.

Hello summer, and hello tan!

(And if I do things right this year.... hello again six pack! It's been so long since I've seen you

)

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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