REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

There IS Poverty in America

POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Monday, May 14, 2012 15:58
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VIEWED: 2316
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Monday, March 19, 2012 4:09 PM

OONJERAH


NEWS! - CBS News - Pictures chronicle poverty "in our own backyard"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57400302/pictures-chronicle-povert
y-in-our-own-backyard/?google_editors_picks=true


(Photographer) Liss is taking what's hard to face and compelling people to look at it. As he understands it,
you can't fix what you can't see. "I want poverty to have a place on the table that it doesn't presently have,
that it hasn't had for 40 years," he said.
CBS News caught up with Liss in Athens County. It is one of Ohio's poorest neighborhoods. One in four people
live in poverty.

Oonj: It's a rather self-important claim to unbroken news: "Look, folks! There's poverty in America!" <= edited

One in six Americans (by one estimate) are homeless, live in poverty or need food assistance.
Is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say this is news to them? It's been going on for decades!

This article totally pisses me off!
You know what, CBS? If you'd report this more often, it wouldn't BE news to you!

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Monday, March 19, 2012 4:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!






"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:48 AM

CAVETROLL


Poverty exists, it is undeniable. Where we differ may be in how we would address that poverty.

"For you always have the poor with you..." - Matthew 26:11

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


If you listen to the right (as Raptor illustrates eloquently), they've all got "material possessions", they don't pay income taxes, they have no work ethic, and on and on and on. Their audience listens to them and believes it--subconsciously not wanting to face the realities. So I have no problem with the realities being shoved in their faces from time to time. Yeah, they'll ignore it or rationalize it or whatever, but at least it's there, rather than being silent and forgotten.

Plus, we have BY FAR MORE poverty these days than we've had in this country since the Depression. I'm all for people doing stuff like this, certainly doesn't cost US anything in our comfortable little lives.





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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

If you listen to the right (as Raptor illustrates eloquently), they've all got "material possessions", they don't pay income taxes, they have no work ethic, and on and on and on. Their audience listens to them and believes it--subconsciously not wanting to face the realities. So I have no problem with the realities being shoved in their faces from time to time. Yeah, they'll ignore it or rationalize it or whatever, but at least it's there, rather than being silent and forgotten.

Plus, we have BY FAR MORE poverty these days than we've had in this country since the Depression. I'm all for people doing stuff like this, certainly doesn't cost US anything in our comfortable little lives.



Niki, my 'illustration' comes from Bill Maher's show. You know, the guy who gave 1 MILLION dollars, not to fight poverty, but to help Obama get re-elected.

And no, we don't have BY FAR more poverty now than we did during the depression. That's absurd.

Good grief.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sorry you have trouble understanding, Raptor. Read it again. I said we have by far more poverty than we've had SINCE the Great Depression, not DURING the Depression.

As to Maher, I don't care where it came from. My feelings about Maher are mixed, at best, but have nothing whatsoever to do with the clip. Offering the clip as some kind of effort to dispute the facts is merely your usual methodology and has no validity. Creating a clip of a few people saying something (I didn't watch it all, the first few seconds showed it was precisely what I thought it would be) in no way refutes that poverty is rampant in America at the present time. Who or where it came from means absolutely nothing; it's intention is obvious.

The FACTS are
Quote:

•The number of people in poverty in 2010 (46.2 million) is the largest number in the 52 years for which poverty estimates have been published.

•Between 2009 and 2010, the poverty rate increased for children under age 18 (from 20.7 percent to 22.0 percent) and people aged 18 to 64 (from 12.9 percent to 13.7 percent), but was not statistically different for people aged 65 and older (9.0 percent).

•This was the third consecutive annual increase in the poverty rate. Since 2007, the poverty rate has increased by 2.6 percentage points, from 12.5 percent to 15.1 percent. http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/about/overview/index.html COURSE we're not at the point we were at during the Great Depression (yet!), when 60% of people were living below the poverty line. But that's not at all what I wrote. What I wrote is correct. Given there are no specific statistics available for poverty during the Great Depression, we can only go on the years since then, but that's sufficient to illustrate the point.




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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:57 PM

OONJERAH



Quote Census.gov poverty: Between 2009 and 2010 ... was not statistically different
for people aged 65 and older (9.0 percent).

I know that is wrong, since I am 65 and older.
During that time and thru 2011, my income actually went down while the COL went up-Up.
I am sure that more than 9% of the elderly are on Social Security.




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Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:31 PM

OONJERAH



The Sexual Politics of Poverty by DAVID ROSEN =>
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/11/the-sexual-politics-of-poverty/

The economic restructuring now remaking the U.S. takes its severest toll on the poor,
especially poor young women of color. This ongoing economic and social crisis is
leading a growing number of unmarried teen girls and young women to having babies.

More troubling, according to a recently released study by the March of Dimes, ”Born
Too Soon: The Global Action Report on Preterm Birth,”

the U.S. has the sixth-highest rate of preterm births among 184 countries and the
highest among industrialized nations. Today, 1 in 8 babies, more than 1,400, are born
prematurely and are in need of expensive newborn intensive care.

After two decades of dramatic cuts in the teen pregnancy rate, the current upturn in
pregnancy rates is troubling. It signals a deeper shift, of young women feeling that
their life does not promise a better future.

Young women are, socially speaking, the proverbial canary in the coalmine. Their fate
prefigures the troubles that lie ahead.

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:32 PM

OONJERAH



Paul Ryan Budget: House Passes Bill To Spare Defense, Cut Food Aid, Health Care =>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/paul-ryan-budget-house-defens
e-food-stamps_n_1506454.html


WASHINGTON -- The House on Thursday passed its plan to spare the military's growing
budget from mandatory cuts, instead slashing Medicaid, benefits for federal workers and
programs to help feed hungry Americans.

The House drew up the "reconciliation budget" in hopes of heading off automatic cuts man-
dated in last summer's deal to raise the nation's debt limit. Under that deal, $1.2 trillion
must be "sequestered" -- that is, cut -- from the budget over the next 10 years, with about
half coming from the military. Such reductions would still allow the defense budget to grow
by 20 percent.

The House GOP plan passed 218 to 199, with . . .



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


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Sunday, May 13, 2012 3:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
NEWS! - CBS News - Pictures chronicle poverty "in our own backyard"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57400302/pictures-chronicle-povert
y-in-our-own-backyard/?google_editors_picks=true


(Photographer) Liss is taking what's hard to face and compelling people to look at it. As he understands it,
you can't fix what you can't see. "I want poverty to have a place on the table that it doesn't presently have,
that it hasn't had for 40 years," he said.
CBS News caught up with Liss in Athens County. It is one of Ohio's poorest neighborhoods. One in four people
live in poverty.

Oonj: It's a rather self-important claim to unbroken news: "Look, folks! There's poverty in America!" <= edited

One in six Americans (by one estimate) are homeless, live in poverty or need food assistance.
Is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say this is news to them? It's been going on for decades!

This article totally pisses me off!
You know what, CBS? If you'd report this more often, it wouldn't BE news to you!



I own my house free and clear.

If I were to accept a theoretical job which was full time for minimum wage (see: they don't exist), I wouldn't be able to sustain myself after taxes.

So far, this year, I've only "made" less than 1k on the books. Most of my "income" is VERY premature retirement withdrawls. Between the taxes and penalties on those, the income tax on the money I legitimately made, my property taxes, sales taxes, and the excise taxes on beer and smokes, I've paid OVER 4 TIMES what I've made this year in taxes!!!!!!

I've done my research...

I'm still not even CLOSE to eligible for any aid.

First off, I'm Male. Second I'm white. After that... I don't see any reasons why I shouldn't be if I wanted it. I'm obviously twice as crazy as any other non-whites and or women who post here.

I wouldn't take it anyways, as I'm FULLY capable of making good money again. Just wondering why the double/triple standard.

If I were a single mom with kids, I would never be expected to work again.

That's not what my mom did. She got a job doing data entry at "Ma Bell" back when there was a "Ma Bell", and she retired a project manager. Sure, it sucked, but there was never any government money in this family growing up.

Today, 1 in 7 people you meet are at least getting food stamps.....


Happy Mother's Day, Mom....

You're twice the man that 80% of the bitch males America is raising today!

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 4:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, you SAY you wouldn't take it, but you did take all the unemployment you could get, didn't you?


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Sunday, May 13, 2012 4:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, you SAY you wouldn't take it, but you did take all the unemployment you could get, didn't you?




I sure did take it, and I took the extended unemployment as well. I also did not deny that fact the entire time I posted, nor, did I deny that fact to any of my family, much to their chagrin....

In fact, two of my favorite cousins are well respected political fixtures in their towns and are moving up today. I love them.

Apparently, we "as in anyone associated with my mom, weren't invited to the yearly family Mother's day party because of some "sister-sister" BS. The only thing I heard was that my mom was supposedly jealous of her kids, but that did nothing but hurt my feelings since she was always my favorite aunt and I'm doing well for myself.




Anyway... as I was saying, I've paid over 4k in taxes this year, even though I've only physically made less than 1k this year and I'm not eligable for any relief.

I don't feel bad about it.

I didn't buy a new car or a big screen with it...

In over 80 weeks of unemployment, without being able to find a good job, I banked over 14k!!!!!

I've since used that money to help purchase my house free and clear and work tirelessly to rehab it.

I've also posted pics here to prove it.

Meanwhile....

My ex and her "husband" with 4 kids sit around and do nothing and collect extra money for the kids because they're too "mentally unstable" to work. At the same time, it's a multi-year effort for my dad to get my youngest brother who had a brain hemmorage and suffered multiple strokes when he was six on the government dole because there are SO MANY people who don't need it in the line before him.

F U Kwick....


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Sunday, May 13, 2012 6:06 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Paul Ryan Budget: House Passes Bill To Spare Defense, Cut Food Aid, Health




My "health care" budget has almost doubled in the last three years...When generic Nyquill went from $2.37 to $4 a bottle, heh.

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:58 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, you SAY you wouldn't take it, but you did take all the unemployment you could get, didn't you?




I sure did take it, and I took the extended unemployment as well. I also did not deny that fact the entire time I posted, nor, did I deny that fact to any of my family, much to their chagrin....

In fact, two of my favorite cousins are well respected political fixtures in their towns and are moving up today. I love them.

Apparently, we "as in anyone associated with my mom, weren't invited to the yearly family Mother's day party because of some "sister-sister" BS. The only thing I heard was that my mom was supposedly jealous of her kids, but that did nothing but hurt my feelings since she was always my favorite aunt and I'm doing well for myself.




Anyway... as I was saying, I've paid over 4k in taxes this year, even though I've only physically made less than 1k this year and I'm not eligable for any relief.

I don't feel bad about it.

I didn't buy a new car or a big screen with it...

In over 80 weeks of unemployment, without being able to find a good job, I banked over 14k!!!!!

I've since used that money to help purchase my house free and clear and work tirelessly to rehab it.

I've also posted pics here to prove it.

Meanwhile....

My ex and her "husband" with 4 kids sit around and do nothing and collect extra money for the kids because they're too "mentally unstable" to work. At the same time, it's a multi-year effort for my dad to get my youngest brother who had a brain hemmorage and suffered multiple strokes when he was six on the government dole because there are SO MANY people who don't need it in the line before him.

F U Kwick....




Are any of the 4 kids yours?

I don't get or like what I perceive your argument to be. You sound kind of whiny to me. And its not like you never received anything. You just begrudge others when they receive benefits.

In my entire life of 48 I have received about one month's worth of unemployment benefits, and I got a study allowance for 12 months, while I studied, funnily enough. I've always worked at whatever I could get, including cleaning, waiting, bar work, photocopying, tutoring, reception work. I dont do those things now, having worked in a profession that I have paid to qualify myself in while I was working.

I can't imagine being out of work 80 weeks, bar some serious health problem.

i don't begrudge their being a welfare safety net - even if some people abuse it. Some people will just use the system, whether it be the millionaires who do creative accounting to hide their wealth for tax reasons, or the person who sits on their arse receiving benefits - no small feat either, not here anyway, given the type of compliane they put you through.

If you own your house outright, stop whining. Your better off than most people in the world

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Monday, May 14, 2012 4:05 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The number of people in poverty in 2010 (46.2 million) is the largest number in the 52 years for which poverty estimates have been published.



True. There are more people in poverty now than 52 years ago, by around 9%. (1959 to 2009 figures as shown)



Of course, in that time the total population has increased from around 179 million (1960 census) to 308 million (2010 census), or 72%.

And the Poverty Rate, even at your latest figure of 15.1%, is lower than the 22% it was in 1959.

This is not to say that poverty isn't a problem, or that it shouldn't be addressed, but statements like "Plus, we have BY FAR MORE poverty these days than we've had in this country since the Depression." are just spin.

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Monday, May 14, 2012 4:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Kinda sad argument. The fact that there are more people in poverty now than 52 years ago, but only by 9%, isn't much of an argument. So you're arguing that it's not so bad? What is "so bad" enough for you, exactly?

As to the other, fine, I freely admit I must have gotten my figures mixed up in there somehow, but the fact remains; the poor in this country are in damned bad shape, and if the Republicans get in office, it's patently obvious it will get worse.



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Monday, May 14, 2012 5:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Kinda sad argument. The fact that there are more people in poverty now than 52 years ago, but only by 9%, isn't much of an argument. So you're arguing that it's not so bad? What is "so bad" enough for you, exactly?

As to the other, fine, I freely admit I must have gotten my figures mixed up in there somehow, but the fact remains; the poor in this country are in damned bad shape, and if the Republicans get in office, it's patently obvious it will get worse.

Actually, it HAS gotten worse. I found more recent facts (as of 2012):
Quote:

A study from Indiana University, released on Wednesday, says the number of Americans living below the poverty line surged by 27% since the beginning of what it calls the "Great Recession" in 2006, driving 10 million more people into poverty.

The report warns that the numbers will continue to rise, because although the recession is technically over, its continued impact on cuts to welfare budgets and the quality of new, often poorly paid, jobs can be expected to force many more people in to poverty. It is also difficult for those already under water to get back up again.

The white paper, drafted by the university's school of public and environmental affairs, which is among the best ranked schools of its kind in the US, says that six years ago, 36.5 million Americans fell below the poverty line. By 2010, the number of people living in poverty rose to 46.2 million and continued to grow over the past year.

"The Great Recession has left behind the largest number of long-term unemployed people since records were first kept in 1948.

The latest census data shows that nearly one in two of the US's 300 million citizens are now officially classified as having a low income or living in poverty. One in five families earns less than $15,000 a year.

The Indiana University study says that the numbers of people falling into poverty is also likely to grow because of severe cuts to state and federal welfare budgets.

"The states by their constitutions all have to have a balanced budget each year. A lot of states are already in the process of cutting back their safety net programmes at the same time that poverty is increasing," said Graham. "Their needs are going up but the programmes are receiving less support. It's going to continue because the revenues of state governments are not increasing as rapidly as is needed and the federal government will be under a lot of pressure because of its large deficit to decrease funding given to the states."

The report warns that the situation is likely to become even worse if the long-term unemployed lose their jobless benefits. Congress extended them for two months at the end of the year, but it is unlikely they will be continued indefinitely.

Among the most severely affected states are Florida, Nevada and Arizona, which have been particularly badly hit by the housing foreclosure crisis, and Michigan and Ohio, which have seen the collapse of traditional manufacturing.

Minorities are among the hardest hit. More than one in four African Americans and Hispanics is officially recorded as living in poverty. About one in 10 white Americans fall below the poverty line. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/11/poverty-america-likely-
worse-report
we were up to 46.2 as of the end of 2010. And we can revise my original statement to the "largest number of long-term unemployed people since records were first kept in 1948". That's accurate, according to the study--and I found the same numbers in other studies.

Oh, by the way, it also states:
Quote:

The report says that the situation would have been much worse had it not been for the Obama administration's 2009 federal stimulus package, which increased child health insurance for poorer families, and cut taxes for low income workers.
Just as an afterthought.

Also:
Quote:

The number of families living on $2 or less per person per day for at least a month in the USA has more than doubled in 15 years to 1.46 million. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-02-23/extreme-poverty-i
ncrease/53227386/1
is, of course, "for at least a month", so it's not an accurate measure of long-term poverty, but it's a pretty shocking statistic nonetheless. And all these figures are WITH government assistance; I wonder what they'd be without it, or even without whatever the Republicans want to cut?



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Monday, May 14, 2012 5:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Additionally,
Quote:

Extreme poverty in US has more than doubled since 1996

A policy brief recently issued by the National Poverty Center (NPC) reveals that the number of households in the US living on less than $2 a day per person has increased by 130 percent since 1996, from 636,000 to some 1.46 million today.

This means that some 4 million people in “the richest country on earth” (according to US capitalism’s apologists) are surviving on less than $60 a month each, i.e., essentially on no income whatsoever.

The policy brief, authored by H. Luke Shaefer, University of Michigan, School of Social Work, and Kathryn Edin, Harvard University, Kennedy School of Government, studies the results of the fifteen years since the 1996 “welfare reform” signed into law by President Bill Clinton, which fatally slashed the social safety net.

“This reform,” the authors comment, “has been followed by a dramatic decline in cash assistance caseloads, from an average of 12.3 million recipients per month in 1996 to 4.4 million in June 2011; only 1.1 million of these beneficiaries are adults.

“Thus, in the aftermath of the Great Recession, while millions of American parents continue to experience long spells of unemployment, they have little access to means-tested income support programs. Has this produced a new group of American poor: households with children living on virtually no income?”

The answer is yes.

In studying the most deprived in the US, the policy brief, whether pointedly or not, explains that the researchers developed “a definition based on one of the World Bank’s main indicators of global poverty, meant to measure poverty in developing nations.” They adopt the World Bank’s standard for determining the poorest of the global poor, subsistence on $2 a day or less.

The study draws data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP) collected by the US Census Bureau from sample households every four months. The most recent data comes from the beginning of 2011.

In passing, the study notes that participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly known as the Food Stamp Program, has increased from an average of 25.5 million recipients per month in 1996 to 45.2 million in June 2011, a 77 percent increase in a decade and a half. http://wsws.org/articles/2012/feb2012/pove-f25.shtml and others

And again, according to Politifact:
Quote:

The economic downturn began before Obama took office. Also, poverty experts such as Sheldon Danziger, director of the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan, say that more Americans would have been forced into poverty without the 2009 federal stimulus plan, championed by Obama, which included billions of dollars for programs that help low-income Americans such as Medicaid and unemployment insurance.
These are all things the Republicans want to cut, so where would that leave us?



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Monday, May 14, 2012 9:31 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The fact that there are more people in poverty now than 52 years ago, but only by 9%, isn't much of an argument.


Not if you ignore that while the number of people in poverty went up 9%, the number of people in total went up 79%.

And once again you ignore that I'm not saying that poverty isn't a problem, just that folks lose interest when they see the stats spun - like you tend to do.

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Monday, May 14, 2012 3:58 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Niki, my 'illustration' comes from Bill Maher's show. You know, the guy who gave 1 MILLION dollars, not to fight poverty, but to help Obama get re-elected.


I don't have any opinion about Maher either, but this argument is like those people who were arguing that browncoats are terrible people for not donating to charity when they wanted to donate to Help Nathan Buy Firefly. Support of one cause does not exclude support for another. Logical fallacy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AppealToWorseProblems

Quote:

And no, we don't have BY FAR more poverty now than we did during the depression. That's absurd.


I'd have to look at the data. I suspect that there's a better standard of living nowadays, including among the homeless and the unemployed. The percentage of unemployed or people below the living wage might be more semantically, but the percentage might not be more.


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