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folks have been happily eating it in their burgers for 20 years

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Per a story tonight on NPR's All Things Considered, that's how many additional cows will have to be raised and slaughtered per year to replace the lean finely textured beef (pink slime) folks have demanded be removed from their hamburger. This despite the facts that the FDA has no reports of it causing anyone any ill effects, and that folks have been happily eating it in their burgers for 20 years, until someone decided to call it "pink slime".

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, I have to assume first that ammonium hydroxide is the ONLY thing they're treating it with, since I know a lot of food products are treated with benzene, which is a carcinogen. Compared to that, ammonium hydroxide is pretty much a non-issue.

That said, the dilution level of ammonium hydroxide used here probably isn't going to be caustic, which would be the main concern, and I'm not aware of it having any carcinogenic properties, but that also doesn't mean it's not toxic to some degree. Clearly at the concentration they ARE using, it's enough to kill bacteria (which is why they're doing it).

So it's a little like if you decided you wanted to put a few drops of window cleaner or formaldehyde on your beef before eating it. I don't know if there would be immediate or long term consequences, but it also probably isn't the best idea either.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
If they'd known what it was sooner, they'd probably have objected sooner.

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GSFA Table 3 Provisions
Ammonium hydroxide is a food additive that is included in Table 3, and as such may be used in the following foods under the conditions of good manufacturing practices (GMP) as outlined in the Preamble of the Codex GSFA. Note that food categories listed in the Annex to Table 3 were excluded accordingly.

Number Food Category
01.1.2 Dairy-based drinks, flavoured and/or fermented (e.g., chocolate milk, cocoa, eggnog, drinking yoghurt, whey-based drinks)
01.3 Condensed milk and analogues (plain)
01.4.3 Clotted cream (plain)
01.4.4 Cream analogues
01.5 Milk powder and cream powder and powder analogues (plain)
01.6.1 Unripened cheese
01.6.2 Ripened cheese
01.6.4 Processed cheese
01.6.5 Cheese analogues
01.7 Dairy-based desserts (e.g., pudding, fruit or flavoured yoghurt)
01.8.1 Liquid whey and whey products, excluding whey cheeses
02.2.2 Fat spreads, dairy fat spreads and blended spreads
02.3 Fat emulsions mainly of type oil-in-water, including mixed and/or flavoured products based on fat emulsions
02.4 Fat-based desserts excluding dairy-based dessert products of food category 01.7
03.0 Edible ices, including sherbet and sorbet
04.1.2 Processed fruit
04.2.2.2 Dried vegetables (including mushrooms and fungi, roots and tubers, pulses and legumes, and aloe vera), seaweeds, and nuts and seeds
04.2.2.3 Vegetables (including mushrooms and fungi, roots and tubers, pulses and legumes, and aloe vera), and seaweeds in vinegar, oil, brine, or soybean sauce
04.2.2.4 Canned or bottled (pasteurized) or retort pouch vegetables (including mushrooms and fungi, roots and tubers, pulses and legumes, and aloe vera), and seaweeds
04.2.2.5 Vegetable (including mushrooms and fungi, roots and tubers, pulses and legumes, and aloe vera), seaweed, and nut and seed purees and spreads (e.g., peanut butter)
04.2.2.6 Vegetable (including mushrooms and fungi, roots and tubers, pulses and legumes, and aloe vera), seaweed, and nut and seed pulps and preparations (e.g., vegetable desserts and sauces, candied vegetables) other than food category 04.2.2.5
04.2.2.8 Cooked or fried vegetables (including mushrooms and fungi, roots and tubers, pulses and legumes, and aloe vera), and seaweeds
05.0 Confectionery
06.3 Breakfast cereals, including rolled oats
06.4.3 Pre-cooked pastas and noodles and like products
06.5 Cereal and starch based desserts (e.g., rice pudding, tapioca pudding)
06.6 Batters (e.g., for breading or batters for fish or poultry)
06.7 Pre-cooked or processed rice products, including rice cakes (Oriental type only)
06.8 Soybean products (excluding soybean-based seasonings and condiments of food category 12.9)
07.0 Bakery wares
08.2 Processed meat, poultry, and game products in whole pieces or cuts
08.3 Processed comminuted meat, poultry, and game products
08.4 Edible casings (e.g., sausage casings)
09.3 Semi-preserved fish and fish products, including mollusks, crustaceans, and echinoderms
09.4 Fully preserved, including canned or fermented fish and fish products, including mollusks, crustaceans, and echinoderms
10.2.3 Dried and/or heat coagulated egg products
10.3 Preserved eggs, including alkaline, salted, and canned eggs
10.4 Egg-based desserts (e.g., custard)
11.6 Table-top sweeteners, including those containing high-intensity sweeteners
12.2.2 Seasonings and condiments
12.3 Vinegars
12.4 Mustards
12.5 Soups and broths
12.6 Sauces and like products
12.7 Salads (e.g., macaroni salad, potato salad) and sandwich spreads excluding cocoa- and nut-based spreads of food categories 04.2.2.5 and 05.1.3
12.8 Yeast and like products
12.9 Soybean-based seasonings and condiments
12.10 Protein products other than from soybeans
13.3 Dietetic foods intended for special medical purposes (excluding products of food category 13.1)
13.4 Dietetic formulae for slimming purposes and weight reduction
13.5 Dietetic foods (e.g., supplementary foods for dietary use) excluding products of food categories 13.1 - 13.4 and 13.6
13.6 Food supplements
14.1.4 Water-based flavoured drinks, including "sport," "energy," or "electrolyte" drinks and particulated drinks
14.2.1 Beer and malt beverages
14.2.2 Cider and perry
14.2.4 Wines (other than grape)
14.2.5 Mead
14.2.6 Distilled spirituous beverages containing more than 15% alcohol
14.2.7 Aromatized alcoholic beverages (e.g., beer, wine and spirituous cooler-type beverages, low alcoholic refreshers)
15.0 Ready-to-eat savouries
16.0 Composite foods - foods that could not be placed in categories 01 - 15

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Enjoy your new diet.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Has it occurred to you that filler made from low-grade beef trimmings' connective tissue is the matter more at issue with the populace?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Maybe people should stick to eating food.

Make your own hamburgers:

This is my recipe for healthy ones
...
Yum and no pink slime to be seen

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At some point though, and sooner than ya think, we're gonna reach a critical mass and people are gonna start actually dealing with the real world around them.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Let's see.

Your beef naturally has ammonia in it.

If the bread crumbs are made from store-bought bread, they quite possibly contain ammonium sulfate.

The cheese would likely contain rennet. "Natural calf rennet is extracted from the inner mucosa of the fourth stomach chamber (the abomasum) of slaughtered young, unweaned calves. These stomachs are a by-product of veal production." Ewww.

Unless you grew the veg yourself, it's possible that some of it was force ripened using ethelyne gas.

And don't forget that if you char the burgers at all, you're creating carcinogens.

Nice, bacteria-free 'pink slime' is sounding better all the time.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Do you think if people could afford fresh, wholesome food and had the time to fix it that they would? I do. Business has squeezed people so hard they can only afford the time and money for fast industrial food. And squeezed people for so much it's not enough that people are in poverty, they have to go into debt so they can be squeezed some more.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I think your comments do not help your argument. There is a difference between some practices of food production that use other components of an animal, such as rennet, and treating mince with chemicals to keep it looking fresh.

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In philosophy, I approve the use of all of an animal when it has been slaughtered, really there is nothing more gross than eating a stomach than a cows arse, or a young animal rather than an old animal.

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If you mean my beef naturally has ammonia, that is still different to trace amounts in all plant an animal life, to spraying your food with bleach.

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I think it is important for people to think about their food and not just accept 2nd rate, 3rd rate quality for convenience sake. The food and agriculture industry really needs to begin cleaning up its act, and not feeding people crap and people need to be better informed around the choices they make.

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In your world view, seems you say, what's the point, its all hopeless, give up now.

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Originally posted by Geezer:
The meat isn't treated to 'look fresh'. It's treated to make sure there is no bacteria to give you E. coli.

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No one that I can find has provided any substantial evidence that 'pink slime' is any more harmful than regualr ground beef, or anything other than a way to make ground beef leaner, less likely to contain bacteria, and less expensive. It's produced using a treatment that the FDA and the WHO approve for use on dozens of foods. It just got stuck with an unfortunate nickname and folks who didn't take the time to do any research jumped to conclusions.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"... or you can spend more time and cook in bulk and freeze ..."

I actually do that, but it takes time - a LOT of time. I'm lucky in not being so pressed for time that I can't manage, but most people aren't so lucky. And even at that, there are things I don't get done b/c of time spent cooking.

We have a secretary where I work - she drops her daughter off to school quite early in the morning. After school her daughter goes to day care b/c the mom is still working. After work, mom picks up daughter, drives over an hour home (commutes here are hellish), usually picks up something to eat on the way home. By the time they get home, it's 7PM, time to have dinner, get the girl's homework done, and get her to bed. Lather, rinse, repeat, Monday through Friday.

There's Saturday and Sunday, but then, the mom has to do laundry, clean house, take care of the yard, run errands and so on. I can see how she and people like her are simply too pressed for time.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
"Everyone Else's Idea of Reality is Bat-shit Crazy!"

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'm still trying to work it out in my head. Of the households with children, roughly 3/4 of them are either single parent homes or homes where both parents work. To me that's a lot of people pressed for time. I can't imagine what they should be doing differently in terms of managing their time, and therefore their nutrition.

As for the secretary, the only thing I can think of is to give her my slow-cooker - put it all in in the AM, and you have at least one home-cooked meal ready for you at the end of the day.

What >> I << would like to see AT LEAST is good labeling on ALL food. I would like to see ingredients spelled out - nearly all corn today (and soybeans for that matter) is GM, but there is no legal requirement for labeling. I would like to see ingredients currently labeled under euphamisms spelled out - call it 'yeast-derived glutamate' instead of 'natural flavor'. I would like to see currently unlabeled ingredients like titanium dioxide (paint pigment) be labeled. In others words, if it's in food you are required to list it on the label. I would ALSO like to see ALL pre-prepared food - fast and restaurant food, pre-packaged entrees and meals etc - labeled for nutrition, for it to be accurate, and for the requirements to be consistent.

Now, maybe this is my mindset playing tricks on me, the thought I have that 'the truth will set you free'. As has been made abundantly clear here, facts are paltry things in people's minds. 'Then we're stupid and we'll die.' But I still want to give facts a try.

BTW - the USDA (US Department of Agriculture) is re-doing food values. Food itself is not nearly as nutritious as it used to be due to plant and animal breeding and modern agricultural and husbandry practices.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Between the Census Bureau and the BLS I get these figures: 26% of households with children are single-parent households, appx 3/4 of those work full time. Households where both parents worked are 58.1 percent in 2010. That's a lot of families with no money, no time, or both.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

I'd agree 100% on the labelling. I disagree with the time poor. But we may have to just agree to disagree on that one. I'd say that preparing simply foods made from fresh ingredients can be as fast as convenience food, but its about the expectations of your family and how our palates have been influenced by big business. Grilled meat, fish or chicken takes minutes, so does putting a salad together, steamed veg takes a few minutes to prepare and a few more to cook. Baking potatoes a few minutes in a microwave, or chuck them in the oven and go and do something else while they cook. Eggs can be fried, scrambled or poached quickly. A frittata maybe 10 minutes. Cheaper cuts of animal protein can be stewed, and as you say a slow cooker can be invaluable and is not an expensive appliance. We used to have a pressure cooker when I was growing up and you could do a stew or soup in 30 minutes. Quick pizzas can be made from flatbread.

Plenty of cultures exist where lives are busy and parents and probably all family members work. But because their culture values food preparation and fresh ingredients, they still are able to knock together something fast.

Out of interest, have you seen the photojournalism essay on what the world eats. Fascinating stuff.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1626519,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1645016,00.html

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
If you ever get a chance, have a look at some of Jaime Oliver's programs where he demonstrates how many people, especially people who are in the lowest socio economic group spend a huge proportion of their income of fast food and convenience food, and it actually works out more expensive than if they made other choices. It wasn't about time, but about shopping habits and a generational loss of cooking knowledge.

Any way, re the pink slime issue, the issue appears to be that the scraps that they use are not fit for human consumption, previously they had been used as pet food, and they have to be chemically treated to rid them of harmful bacteria. The other issue is that mince is not labeled appropriately, so consumers are not aware that the meat contains highly processed meat based products. Use of such products is prohibited in other parts of the world, and lower socio economics groups seem to manage just fine.

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