REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Man beaten by mob in critical condition

POSTED BY: CAVETROLL
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 02:45
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5409
PAGE 1 of 2

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:55 AM

CAVETROLL


"Justice for Trayvon". Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-conditio
n-ar-3659891
/

Quote:


MOBILE, Alabama --
Mobile police need your help to catch a mob that beat Matthew Owens so badly that he's in critical condition.

According to police, Owens fussed at some kids playing basketball in the middle of Delmar Drive about 8:30 Saturday night. They say the kids left and a group of adults returned, armed with everything but the kitchen sink.

Police tell News 5 the suspects used chairs, pipes and paint cans to beat Owens.

Owens' sister, Ashley Parker, saw the attack. "It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed." Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using "brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on."

Police will only say "multiple people" are involved.

What Parker says happened next could make the fallout from the brutal beating even worse. As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon." Trayvon Martin is the unarmed teenager police say was shot and killed February 26 by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Samford, Florida.

Police canvassed the area, but did not find any suspects. They're asking anyone with information to call them at 251-208-7211, Crime Stoppers at 251-208-7000, or text a tip to 274637 and include the keyword CRIME 411.



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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




Lynching- not good no matter who does it.

That is why we are SUPPOSED to handle these things through a court. So it's a good thing that Zimmerman is going to trial.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:43 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I don't think we should conclude that this attack was motivated by the George Zimmerman case, just because one of the assailants muttered "Justice for Trayvon" as an after thought.

Still, pretty horrific. And sad.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:02 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The flames of hate from the Martin case were fanned from both sides. I might even say more so from the left because I'm not even sure if that case had anything to do with race.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:02 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!



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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:06 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
"Justice for Trayvon". Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-conditio
n-ar-3659891
/

Quote:


MOBILE, Alabama --
Mobile police need your help to catch a mob that beat Matthew Owens so badly that he's in critical condition.

According to police, Owens fussed at some kids playing basketball in the middle of Delmar Drive about 8:30 Saturday night. They say the kids left and a group of adults returned, armed with everything but the kitchen sink.

Police tell News 5 the suspects used chairs, pipes and paint cans to beat Owens.

Owens' sister, Ashley Parker, saw the attack. "It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed." Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using "brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on."

Police will only say "multiple people" are involved.

What Parker says happened next could make the fallout from the brutal beating even worse. As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon." Trayvon Martin is the unarmed teenager police say was shot and killed February 26 by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Samford, Florida.

Police canvassed the area, but did not find any suspects. They're asking anyone with information to call them at 251-208-7211, Crime Stoppers at 251-208-7000, or text a tip to 274637 and include the keyword CRIME 411.





I'm looking at cnn, msnbc, fox, the major networks and print media, etc - this story is a major windfall for them.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.



I'm curious, Troll - do you hold the media and those who "fan the flames of hate" at all culpable for things like the Gabby Giffords shooting?

I only ask because when it was brought up, we were assured by virtually everyone on the right that the shooter was the only one responsible for his actions, and the media hate-storming and the literal *targeting* of people had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Are you saying now that that wasn't true? Or is it different when someone acts out in response to right-wing hate-mongering?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:58 AM

CAVETROLL


No, Kwicko and I'll tell you why. The Giffords shooting was the initial incident. Despite numerous attempts by the media and people here to pin it on Republican rhetoric, it was the action of one, very crazy, person. If there had been a follow on incident, then there might be a line of comparison to Mobile.

This latest Mobile incident has an antecedent in the Martin shooting. Which was whipped into a media frenzy, and we have a few here who are just as culpable, by initially trying to paint the incident as a black/white race issue. Remember, for 30 days there was no coverage and no outrage over the Martin shooting in the national media. Then Martin's parents managed to catch someone's attention with a news story. And the firestorm broke out. Maybe if it had not been a slow news day the fire would not have caught.

When tempers are running high people will vent under any pretext. Los Angeles riots would be a good example.

I really wonder if Zimmerman can get a fair trial in this environment. Or if there is a not guilty verdict will there be a punitive federal civil rights trial? That seems to be the pattern to date.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:29 AM

BYTEMITE


Honestly I haven't really been watching any of this. I tend to avoid coverage of criminal cases because the media vultures offend my sensibilities. What I consider a tragedy, they appear to consider entertainment.

Ultimately the only real evidence we do have is a body, a gun, a bullet, and papers for said gun, and a confession from the defendant that he did kill his stalkee/attacker. But all the other evidence from both sides is circumstantial, hearsay, unconfirmed rumour, and some photographs that are difficult to authenticate. It is unlikely we will be able to prove conclusively that this was self defense OR malice aforethought.

2nd degree murder was a bad choice for the prosecutor in this case, without conclusive proof it was self defense then this was technically manslaughter. It depends on the judge and jury, apparently manslaughter still is on the table, but he may walk because of that.

That's all I really have to say about that.

As for the mob... People get invested in ideas and identities quite a lot. I do blame the media for exacerbating hostility and us vs. them mentality between various groups. Divide and conquer. I'm not sure that makes anything someone does while under the influence of hatemongering okay, of course, nor should we be restricting what people can and can't say, but I do think we ought to pause and consider just how easily we've been twisted.


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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:39 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
"Justice for Trayvon". Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-conditio
n-ar-3659891
/


If I understood the article correctly a black man was beaten by a mob of white men...that's horrible and clearly a civil rights issue.

Oh...no, just saw it was a white man beaten by a mob of black men...that's ok then. Move along, nothing to see here.

H

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:27 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
"Justice for Trayvon". Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.



I feel very bad for the man.

Chris wanted a trial. And you're claiming he helped lead to this.

You're a fuckwad.

ETA: Hero is too.


I don't recall anyone here making it about race - just people sayinjg over and over there should be a trial. It's those who wanted to sweep it aside - like the above mentioned fuckwads - who keep claiming it's about race.

This new case is terrible - yes. And as soon as they let everyone go home with no charges that Ill consider them the same.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:37 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


That is why we are SUPPOSED to handle these things through a court. So it's a good thing that Zimmerman is going to trial.



Damned fucking right.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:45 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Oh...no, just saw it was a white man beaten by a mob of black men...that's ok then. Move along, nothing to see here.

H



I'm sorry, who is saying that?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The flames of hate from the Martin case were fanned from both sides. I might even say more so from the left because I'm not even sure if that case had anything to do with race.




Please direct me to where you've seen the hate fanned from the Right, per the Zimmerman / Martin case, if you could.
* I'm ASKING, not dismissing your claim, out of hand. Honestly, I've not seen any evidence myself. *

That case didn't have anything to do w/ race, but that's how it was initially spun, and then continued to be spun , with the made up ' WHITE hispanic ' label they gave GZ.





" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:34 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Mob beats man. Who is responsible? Perhaps the mob? Aren't we all accountable for our own actions?

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
"Justice for Trayvon". Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-conditio
n-ar-3659891
/


If I understood the article correctly a black man was beaten by a mob of white men...that's horrible and clearly a civil rights issue.

Oh...no, just saw it was a white man beaten by a mob of black men...that's ok then. Move along, nothing to see here.

H




Interesting that you feel that way. I'd think as a lawyer (allegedly) you'd want an investigation either way.

Guess I figured wrong.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:10 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
"Justice for Trayvon". Good job everyone who has been fanning the flames of hate. I'm looking at you, Chrisisall.



I feel very bad for the man.

Chris wanted a trial. And you're claiming he helped lead to this.

You're a fuckwad.

ETA: Hero is too.


I don't recall anyone here making it about race - just people sayinjg over and over there should be a trial. It's those who wanted to sweep it aside - like the above mentioned fuckwads - who keep claiming it's about race.

This new case is terrible - yes. And as soon as they let everyone go home with no charges that Ill consider them the same.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




Bingo. And don't forget to give the mob back its guns!




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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:12 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Mob beats man. Who is responsible? Perhaps the mob? Aren't we all accountable for our own actions?



Well, we also don't know the whole story. There is a legal precedent about fighting words. Certainly the mob isn't innocent in this though.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


20 to 1. Good thing Mr Owens didn't try to run OVER any of those brats playing in the street, then those folks might have REALLY hurt him.

He was , from the sound of it, only fussing at them to get out of the middle of the road.

Bet he won't make that mistake again.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:40 PM

BYTEMITE


Again, is that the official story, or only one side of the story?

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:59 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


So it begins.. or continues...depending on your history.

Anyone still want to be on the side of "gun control"?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:02 PM

BYTEMITE


Looked into this a little more and from the yahoo newspage:

Quote:

They say it’s lead to some confrontations. Racial comments from both sides may have made the confrontations more toxic.


Which is pretty much exactly what I figured, and what I was getting at with the "is this the whole story" question. :/ The mob may be the worst here, but it sounds like no one was innocent and this may really have been provoked.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Mob beats man. Who is responsible? Perhaps the mob? Aren't we all accountable for our own actions?



Well, we also don't know the whole story. There is a legal precedent about fighting words. Certainly the mob isn't innocent in this though.



meh, I have some issues with this sort of stuff. It gets very murky regarding responsibility. Should the bottom line be that we are all responsible for our own actions, unless we claim severe impairment or mental illness? I can get angry about something, but its my choice what i do with that anger. Beating someone up because of anger or frustration is a choice.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
So it begins.. or continues...depending on your history.

Anyone still want to be on the side of "gun control"?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."



Love the Rorshach quote.

www.cheaperthandirt.com





" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:39 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Be careful with CTD... I ordered a big pack of ammo from them. Several of the. 38s were bent and unusable. Might have been a fluke tho. The 556, 9mm, 40, and 308 were fine.

But yes. Keep your powder dry.

ETA. and your knives, eyes, and mind.. sharp.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



See, it's that sort of real world user testimony that I was looking for. Thanks.





" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:59 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Cabellas is pretty reliable. Depending on what you are looking for, even Amazon comes thru.

As to the subject of this thread.

All I can say is... you be white in a ghetto after Rodney King.

In a very blue state.

Oh, do my scars sing.

As the Jews say... never again.

Never again in life.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
So it begins.. or continues...depending on your history.

Anyone still want to be on the side of "gun control"?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."



Love the Rorshach quote.

www.cheaperthandirt.com





Had good luck with this place:

http://www.classicfirearms.co/semi-auto%20rifles.htm


I buy ammo by the thousand, and haven't had any issues with any of theirs. 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54r, 9mm, .380ACP, .45Auto, 5.45x39mm


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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:38 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Provoked or not, I don't like mobs, of any people, ethnicity irrelevent, mobs scare me. If he did something wrong then he should get a little hastled for it, but a mob? Never okay, plus I don't know if he did anything wrong. But mobs are scary, ahhhhh.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:42 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Mob beats man. Who is responsible? Perhaps the mob? Aren't we all accountable for our own actions?



Well, we also don't know the whole story. There is a legal precedent about fighting words. Certainly the mob isn't innocent in this though.



meh, I have some issues with this sort of stuff. It gets very murky regarding responsibility. Should the bottom line be that we are all responsible for our own actions, unless we claim severe impairment or mental illness? I can get angry about something, but its my choice what i do with that anger. Beating someone up because of anger or frustration is a choice.



True.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:06 AM

OONJERAH



Did Matthew Owens fan the flames of hate on his own?



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:13 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Anyone still want to be on the side of "gun control"?



No, you're right - those guys should have shot that meddling white dude.
See how the real world doesn't have to fit your movie fantasy? And if Zimmerman hadn't been emboldened by his gun he probably would have kept his distance and we'd have one fewer pointless sht storms.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:03 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I don't recall anyone here making it about race



Well, the first thread about the Trayvon Martin shooting was titled:

Quote:

"Racism is dead in America." Bullshit


http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=51371

and it ran to six pages.

Some quotes:

"Nobody's posted about this one, perhaps because it represents a common enough occurrence that we don't pay much attention. But I've been following it, and it's not only outrageous, it's another example of the fact that racisim isn't only alive and well in America, it's allowed."

"This is terrible.

Even if we imagine that the perpetrator is a hard-core racist, I find the story shocking."

"And, not to distract from the article, on the broader topic of this thread - if racism was really dead - this wouldn't be a hot selling bumper sticker:"




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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Did Matthew Owens fan the flames of hate on his own?



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.




Did Trayvon?



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 5:20 AM

BYTEMITE


Potentially, and that's the problem here. We don't know what really happened because a lot of the information about the cases is hearsay.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 5:37 AM

OONJERAH


Quote Auraptor: "Did Trayvon?"

No, I don't believe Trayvon did.

I am simply referring to CT's opening statement, suggesting that Chrisisall fanned
the flames of hate. There was so much flame fanning (in the media mostly, I guess)
that a whole mob was infected with hate and for no other reason, attacked Matthew
Owens.

After reading an update on the story last night, it seems possible that Matt had
offended his attackers in some not too subtle way.



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 5:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

"Nobody's posted about this one, perhaps because it represents a common enough occurrence that we don't pay much attention. But I've been following it, and it's not only outrageous, it's another example of the fact that racisim isn't only alive and well in America, it's allowed."
What is untrue about that? It doesn't mean America is a racist country, only that racism does still exist and is a common enough occurrence that it's not always reported in the national news. Physically violent racism doesn't even make the news, and, tho' it happens less than in the past and isn't tolerated as much, it still happens. Less overt racism happens every day all over the country, and in many places it IS allowed by the authorities.

I'm not the only one who feels that way, more than half of just WHITE Americans do:
Quote:

On the broader issue, 55 percent of the public thinks blacks and other racial minorities don’t receive equal treatment in the criminal justice system, ranging from 49 percent of whites to 84 percent of African-Americans. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/racial-divisions-define-o
pinions-on-the-trayvon-martin-shooting
/

Quote:

Public records, shows that the number of cases in which "stand your ground" has been invoked has climbed dramatically in the past year and a half. The analysis shows that police and prosecutors continue to apply the law unevenly when it comes to race. http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/number-of-stand-your-ground-case
s-rises-as-gop-legislators-rethink-law-this-is-a-good-read-folks/question-2548145/
] Civil Rights Commissioner Michael Yaki has since called for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights to launch an investigation into "Stand Your Ground" laws to see if they are allowing racial bias into our justice system.

"Allegations that shooters like George Zimmerman may have ‘profiled’ their victims based on their race and that stand your ground laws improperly protect race-motivated killings needs review," Yaki said in a statement Friday.

Yaki told HLN’s Dr. Drew Monday night, "Since these laws have been enacted, you've seen, basically, a big jump in justifiable homicides in this country. When you look at the data reported to the FBI, a black person is five times more likely to be the victim of a justifiable homicide by a white person than if you just look at homicide stats as a whole." http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/17/does-racial-bias-exist-stand-you
r-ground-laws
IS alive and well in America; that doesn't mean America is a racist nation, which seem to be how you have interpreted it. It continues to be an ongoing issue in this country.

You also failed to note that the initial reporting on the Martin case indicated it was racially-motivated and some here disagreed almost immediately, while others (including myself) revised their opinions as more facts became evident. Your reference to "Even if we imagine that the perpetrator is a hard-core racist" said EVEN IF WE IMAGINE, not that Zimmerman was racist.

Also, you ignored comments right at the beginning such as "Whether or not the shooting/initial harrassment was racially motivated", "I don't see Trayvon Martin's killing as a typical hate crime. More of a sick wannabe-cop's ego gone mad. Zimmerman may see himself as a hero", "I don't know whether it was racially motivated or not, I don't think we have enough info to determine that, sometimes on the surface something looks one way and then when you find out more its more complex than that"--which is exactly what happened.

While the DISCUSSION went on for six pages, it quickly turned to whether Zimmerman was guilty, the police inaction, what rights Martin had, the stand-your-ground law in general, among other things.

Actually, the only truly racist post was by Wulf (not surprisingly):
Quote:

A lot of people have to see a behavior before one is born. Then that behavior has to be reinforced over time for it to be vetted.

Drunk Irish.

Covetous Jew.

Mob Italian.

Bookworm Asian.

Maybe instead of blaming the aftermath of said stereotypes... you should try changing them. (Tho I give a pass to Asians.... getting good grades is not a vice.)

Everyone was all set to jump on this. "WHITE MAN KILLS BLACK BOY!"... and all that entails.

But now that the guy was Hispanic... you backpeddle. Cus God knows, its only ok to cry raciss when the target is white.

When its an "other"... well then. That gets all sorts of complicated, right? Only white people are raciss, right?

By his saying he gives a pass to Asians 'cuz good grades aren't a vice, he is saying that people of races who are stereotyped should change THEIR actions so stereotypes wouldn't be valid. That's actually more valid than anything about race which anyone else wrote...he IS saying racism is valid.

Then he goes on to say people backpedaled because they found out Zimmerman is part Hispanic, which is obvious transference from how HE views the situation, and had nothing to do with why WE were revising our opinions when more facts came out.

I only read down to the second page, but by then racism was only brought up mostly by Wulf and Raptor; everyone else was on to discussing self-defense rights and other issues in the Martin case. So the discussion of race did not continue for six pages, you misrepresented it as having done so.



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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 6:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

After reading an update on the story last night, it seems possible that Matt had
offended his attackers in some not too subtle way.




He offended them, so a mob ( 20 or so to 1 ) felt it just fine to beat him nearly to death ?

Really?

Where was the outrage for 'social justice' for Bobby Tillman?

http://www.ajc.com/news/life-sentence-in-bobby-1425127.html

18 yr old black kid, who WAS beaten and stomped to death, for literally doing nothing, but be the next person some thugs saw, so they decided to just kick some ass.

Lots of brave dudes in a mob, it seems.





" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:41 AM

OONJERAH



"State Attorney Norm Wolfinger 'held off pending further review' Zimmerman's
arrest, according to the Miami Herald."
Pending further review... means the PD would continue to investigate?
Apparently, they did not. But reports kept surfacing of the cops leading wit-
nesses. If so, why?

At the time, I imagined Wolfinger and the PD were being racist, and I don't
discount that now. But the decision to forget Trayvon might just as easily
have been political.

Many of the protesters made the accusation of racism, and of course, the
media loved it and fed it.
What the media decides to feed often makes fact finding difficult for the
reader.

Yes, but -- Auraptor wants to get back to the Matthew Owens discussion, where
mob "justice" is truly awful. I'm with Riona, "But mobs are scary, ahhhhh"!

Bobby Tillman. Nov 2010. As I recall, it was a party, they were drunk; Emanuel
Boykins got mad at his girl friend and said he'd get a piece of the next man to
come down the street. The next man was Tillman. I don't know that Boykins asked
for any help; but when he approached Tillman, others followed and joined in a
perfectly senseless attack. Tillman died.
Emanuel Boykins was just now sentenced to life in prison.

My rage gland sometimes get wore out in here. I might become desensitized.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Quote Auraptor: "Did Trayvon?"



No, I don't believe Trayvon did.

I am simply referring to CT's opening statement, suggesting that Chrisisall fanned
the flames of hate. There was so much flame fanning (in the media mostly, I guess)
that a whole mob was infected with hate and for no other reason, attacked Matthew
Owens.

After reading an update on the story last night, it seems possible that Matt had
offended his attackers in some not too subtle way.




Here's the thing: Even IF Owens offended his attackers in some not-too-subtle way, a mob-stomp is still not any kind of okay as a reaction.

I still question whether one person remarking after the fact "That's justice for Trayvon" means that the whole mob got together and worked out a plan to avenge Trayvon by beating down a white dude.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

"State Attorney Norm Wolfinger 'held off pending further review' Zimmerman's
arrest, according to the Miami Herald."
Pending further review... means the PD would continue to investigate?
Apparently, they did not. But reports kept surfacing of the cops leading wit-
nesses. If so, why?

At the time, I imagined Wolfinger and the PD were being racist, and I don't
discount that now. But the decision to forget Trayvon might just as easily
have been political.

Many of the protesters made the accusation of racism, and of course, the
media loved it and fed it.
What the media decides to feed often makes fact finding difficult for the
reader.

Yes, but -- Auraptor wants to get back to the Matthew Owens discussion, where
mob "justice" is truly awful. I'm with Riona, "But mobs are scary, ahhhhh"!

Bobby Tillman. Nov 2010. As I recall, it was a party, they were drunk; Emanuel
Boykins got mad at his girl friend and said he'd get a piece of the next man to
come down the street. The next man was Tillman. I don't know that Boykins asked
for any help; but when he approached Tillman, others followed and joined in a
perfectly senseless attack. Tillman died.
Emanuel Boykins was just now sentenced to life in prison.

My rage gland sometimes get wore out in here. I might become desensitized.




I imagine there would probably be more calls for "social justice" if Boykins had been sent home that night with no further investigation deemed necessary because he claimed he'd beaten Tillman to death in self-defense...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I still question whether one person remarking after the fact "That's justice for Trayvon" means that the whole mob got together and worked out a plan to avenge Trayvon by beating down a white dude.



I'm 100% certain that those who killed Bobby Tillman didn't do it for Trayvon. In fact, they basically did it TO Trayvon.





" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Wheel never stops turning.." - Mal

"Ka is a wheel." - Roland



"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:12 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

"Nobody's posted about this one, perhaps because it represents a common enough occurrence that we don't pay much attention. But I've been following it, and it's not only outrageous, it's another example of the fact that racisim isn't only alive and well in America, it's allowed."
What is untrue about that?



In this instance, I wasn't saying anything about its truth or falsity.

Just responding to this.

Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I don't recall anyone here making it about race



and providing an example of someone making it about race.

You're still, rightly or wrongly, making it about race.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:26 AM

OONJERAH



Career Criminal Arrested In Matthew Owens Beating [video] =>
http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/66/man-beaten-mob-critical-condi
tion-ar-3659891
/

Terry Rawls did not say a word to News 5 and other media outlets as
police took him from police headquarters to a patrol car.

Rawls has an extensive criminal history in Mobile and Baldwin counties
including assault, burglary, theft and cocaine possession.

Rawls lives on Delmar Drive at the same house where we talked to an
angry mother who claims the kids are the real victims.

Wednesday 1:45 p.m.
44-year-old Terry Rawls is charged with assault 1st degree in the beating
of Matthew Owens.



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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Please direct me to where you've seen the hate fanned from the Right, per the Zimmerman / Martin case, if you could.
* I'm ASKING, not dismissing your claim, out of hand. Honestly, I've not seen any evidence myself. *

That case didn't have anything to do w/ race, but that's how it was initially spun, and then continued to be spun , with the made up ' WHITE hispanic ' label they gave GZ.



The photos that where not Travon, the sites trying to say that Martin was a drug dealer and a gang banger.

Drudge and Michele Malkin's site posted those photos. I know Malkin's site correctly took them down an apologized after, but even a mistake such as this can do harm.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:32 PM

OONJERAH


meh, I have some issues with this sort of stuff. It gets very murky regarding responsibility.
Should the bottom line be that we are all responsible for our own actions, unless we claim
severe impairment or mental illness? I can get angry about something, but its my choice what
i do with that anger. Beating someone up because of anger or frustration is a choice.


Magons, in your work, you must have met many people who have a very hard time 1) under-
standing their responsibilities as an adult, & 2) being/becoming able to make the right choices.

I am driving my car thru a rich neigborhood at night; I arrive at my destination and park. I
walk into a building there. Chances are, I can do that 1,000 times without getting mugged.
Because it's a protected, safe neighborhood.

I am sitting at a bus stop in a ghetto 1 block off of skid row at 2:00 a.m. The bus is late
again, & I have to wait 15 minutes, alone. Chances are, I can do that 20 times before I get
mugged.

Mugging is against the law, and I don't deserve to be mugged. Why does the mugger make
a bad choice and mug me? He's responsible and deserves jail.

But I am responsible too. If I am often in the wrong place at the wrong time, I will get
hurt from time to time. While I am lying on the sidewalk, bruised and bleeding, what satis-
faction do I get saying, "Well, this was the mugger's fault. He has to be responsible" ?
None at all. The satisfaction comes when I leave that place and never go back.

There are a lot of bad, crime-ridden neighborhoods in the world, in America. Many of the
tenants there are decent enough; but nearly all of them are poor and broken and make a lot
of bad choices. Only a few of them will move on to a better life. How come? Because what
should be and what is aren't always the same.

I feel Matthew Owens may be living in such a place. A murky place.



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Please direct me to where you've seen the hate fanned from the Right, per the Zimmerman / Martin case, if you could.

* I'm ASKING, not dismissing your claim, out of hand. Honestly, I've not seen any evidence myself. *

That case didn't have anything to do w/ race, but that's how it was initially spun, and then continued to be spun , with the made up ' WHITE hispanic ' label they gave GZ.



The photos that where not Travon, the sites trying to say that Martin was a drug dealer and a gang banger.

Drudge and Michele Malkin's site posted those photos. I know Malkin's site correctly took them down an apologized after, but even a mistake such as this can do harm.



Never heard that he dealt drugs or was a 'gang banger', but isn't it a fact he was kicked out of school for a bag containing weed residue ? Or a very small amount ? You can see how folks could easily jump to the 'dealer' conclusion, even w/ out it being stated. True or not.

If Malkin's site did post some pics claiming to be Trayvon, but then took them down, acknowledging the error, how is that 'fanning the flames ' of hate ?

How many folks actually saw those pics ( I'm pretty sure I never did ) vs how many heard the 'falsely edited' 9-1-1 call from NBC ?



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:14 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Please direct me to where you've seen the hate fanned from the Right, per the Zimmerman / Martin case, if you could
Sure:
Quote:

Since the Trayvon Martin case became a national issue, I'd been doing something I never used to do. I've been reading the comment threads at right-wing blogs and at Fox Nation to see how folks are reacting to the story. It's been really depressing on many levels. I want to stipulate that some of the right-wing pushback has been warranted. NBC made a very irresponsible edit to Zimmerman's 911 tape. It's true that Trayvon was a taller more mature person than was being depicted in the media. And, while the tape of Zimmerman arriving at the police station shows no obvious injury, it's also possible that he had a mark on the back of his head. I don't mind people pointing out flaws or bias or overstatements in the media coverage.

But the comments sections have been filled with a lot of very concerning stuff. There is a lot of overtly racist terminology being thrown around, and there's very little pushback from other commenters or the moderators. It's as if this kind of talk is tolerated and so expected that even people who don't like it don't feel the need to object.

Another problem is there is an obsession with a threat that was issued by the New Black Panther Party. It's getting a little ridiculous. What are there, like three confirmed members of the New Black Panther Party in the whole country? And then this is tied into the idea that blacks are on the verge of rioting. On top of that, there is a total obsession with the fact that the Attorney General Eric Holder is black. And, of course, there's the constant abuse of the president, very often cast in racial terms.

So, the racism that has been unleashed and tolerated at these sites is very worrisome. But there's much more that I don't like. There is an outright assumption that the only facts in this case that are true are those issued by the Zimmerman family, the Sanford Police Department, and the one or two witnesses whose accounts are helpful to Zimmerman. If we were inclined to give the right some credit for exposing some bias in the media against Zimmerman, they lose that merit badge by engaging in even more extreme bias in the other direction.

In following the thread (linked above) that began once it was announced that some charges would be pressed and continued through the announcement that those charges would include Second Degree murder, only two commenters stopped to wonder what the prosecutor might have uncovered to warrant such a charge. The rest assumed that the charges were trumped up, politically motivated, inspired by the fear of riots or pressure from the DOJ or the president. That the prosecutor is a Republican who was appointed by a Republican governor wasn't considered relevant.

It's a frightening level of group-think. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/04/florida-official-george-zimmer
man-will-be-tried-in-trayvon-martin-killing/
]

From a newspaper columnist whose works are published in North Carolina and Florida:
Quote:

I have seen these kinds of scenarios before, where the irate radical black community threatens a community with vengeance, but using the vernacular “justice” as justification. If the justice system doesn’t lean their way, then they will punish those in the system by rioting and killing innocent people in the city streets of America.

It happened in L.A. It happened in Miami. I remember it well. I was there. The plans were already in place before the riots ever started. It was not spontaneous, and neither is this.

If one death results in any city street in America as a result of this case, it will not be because of George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin, it will be because of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee, CBS, ABC and the blood thirsty news media that thrives on burning cities and innocent dead people. Don’t tell me I am on a rant, I have seen this happen in the bowels of Miami with a similar scenario, building up exactly like this is being built up. http://www.marshallfrank.com/articles/2012/04/zimmerman-trayvon-martin
-and-the-media/
there's Geraldo Rivera: The controversy surrounding Martin’s death intensified after Fox News Channel commentator Geraldo Rivera suggested that the grey hoodie worn by Martin was as much responsible for his death as the man who shot him.
Quote:

ABLOW: It's irresistible to this president to enter the fray when there seems to be an opportunity for a kind of furious splitting. And that is a call to the president he can't seem to resist.

It's time, probably -- it's been overdue that we believe the data. Like as a psychiatrist, there is a certain point when you get a diagnosis. You say, "OK, look, absent something that refutes this, this is the diagnosis." A president who hangs around with Reverend Wright, whose wife said she was never proud of this country, has an edge. He's got it in for this country. At moments when there is an opportunity to fracture the unity, he does. [Fox Business, Lou Dobbs Tonight, 3/27/12, via Media Matters]

Quote:

DOBBS: So why would his campaign suddenly advertise hooded sweatshirts in the middle of a national controversy in part created by the president himself? [Fox Business, Lou Dobbs Tonight, 3/27/12, via Media Matters]
Quote:

This week, progressives and lib media activists elevated a tragic Florida shooting involving a 17-year-old boy into the cause celebre of the week... they've turned the horrible death of Trayvon Martin into a racial litmus test. And now, Barack Obama is all too willing to pour gas on the fire [MichelleMalkin.com, 3/23/12].
Quote:

Obama and the White House had previously refrained from commenting on the case. Following demands by the New Black Panthers and others on scene in Sanford, Fla. that the White House get involved, Obama jumped into the fight. [The Daily Caller, 3/23/12]
Quote:

Fox News commentator Bill O’Reilly lambasted the media Friday night, singling out MSNBC and CNN, saying the media "is exploiting the terrible death of 17-year-old Trayvon by convicting the man who shot him, George Zimmerman, of wrongdoing on television."

"It was pathetic watching the prime-time cable programs whip up the Trayvon Martin case to dangerous levels," O'Reilly said in his Talking Points Memo. "The media exploiting the terrible death of 17-year-old Trayvon by convicting the man who shot him, George Zimmerman, of wrongdoing on television."

O'Reilly speculated on what would happen if the Florida special prosecutor decided there is not enough evidence to prosecute Zimmerman.

"What if that happens? It could, because Florida's complicated stand your ground law has muddled the case. MSNBC, and CNN to some extent, have a vested interest in seeing Zimmerman punished because they have already found him guilty on the air. So they are not going to respect any verdict but guilty.

"Therefore, those entities tell the American public that racial injustice has been done if there is not a conviction, and that could very well lead to violence as we saw in the Rodney King case."

O'Reilly made a prediction, based on Martin's comments. "So you can see the racial animous is already being stirred up on MSNBC and that is flat-out dangerous.

"Pundits who have no blanken idea what happened that night are putting innocent people in danger by commentary based on emotion, not facts."

O'Reilly's commentary Friday night built on the theme of his Thursday night Talking Points Memo, where he said journalists are continuing to try the Trayvon murder case on television, regardless of the possibility that the coverage could spark racial violence.

“No media observer knows exactly what happened the night Trayvon Martin was killed,” O’Reilly said on Fox News. “Yet there they are, bloviating all over the place, exploiting the death of a young man, inciting violence against the system. Awful!” http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6356749
/Re_O_Reilly_NBC_Media_Inciting

I'm sure our righties won't see any of that as "incitement", so I won't bother looking further. But the insistence that all other media is "left wing" and THEY are "inciting violence", as well as all the code words of "violence", "danger", etc., is a way of saying "the Blacks are coming", and they use that very effectively. It incites fear, which is always the basis for hatred. You can see it over and over again in O'Reilly's comments.

You can't see the hatred incited until you see the RESULTS of it, and that you can find in every single list of comments after the articles in question...virtually without demur. Here's a sampling from that first article:
Quote:

Could be a couple of different issues here. They need to prosecute just to keep control of the Animals that would surely riot if no charges are made. Assume the best of the legal system and innocence before a jury then when the riots take place the blame can be shifted. This woman wants her 15 mins. In any event, expect rioting.

Blacks are like most Dogs only Brave when traveling in Packs

This is strictly a cover your ass move by the prosecutor. If she doesn’t charge him, the Black Panthers would put a bounty out on her. She is doing nothing but bowing to public pressure.

Charge Zimmerman with littering for leaving thug Martin’s sorry-ass corpse on the lawn.
That is the only justice I see happening here.

As soon as George goes to jail….One of Trayvon’s brothers inside the prison will kill him…because the brother knows Eric Holder will grant a pardon to anyone who avenges the death of Obama’s son.

What is he going to be charged with? Going above and beyond in service for the human race? Little thug Traybon got just what he deserved!

It’s time to stop pandering to the mass of mopes who are all to ready to riot on que from sharpton, etal…. Do what is right, if riots break out then it’s time to deal with them. All this country is doing by pacifying these mopes is delaying the inevitable and making it harder over time to reign it in. Just like putting the brakes on an out of control child.

The fact that BOTH SIDES have used this tragedy to their best advantage is that the comments by the people who read their articles and watch their TV shows reflect what they've been encouraged to feel emotionally. To say the right isn't inciting anything is being deliberately naive and disingenuous.

ETA:
Quote:

How many folks actually saw those pics
Millions. Check the internet, then for each site where you find the pics, check the number of hits. I saw a couple of them numerous times myself, while searching sites for info on the case--and like I said, I had NO idea a couple of them weren't of Trayvon. How many people will never KNOW they weren't of Trayvon, and how will it affect their opinion of the case/Martin/Black people? I don't watch ABC, nor do millions of others, so we never knew about the "mistake" there until we heard it elsewhere. To say one was valid and the other irrelevant isn't honest.


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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki -

A 'comments section' ? Really?

And this...
Quote:


If one death results in any city street in America as a result of this case, it will not be because of George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin, it will be because of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee, CBS, ABC and the blood thirsty news media that thrives on burning cities and innocent dead people. Don’t tell me I am on a rant, I have seen this happen in the bowels of Miami with a similar scenario, building up exactly like this is being built up.



How is that, in any way, 'fanning hate' ? It's being honest, direct, and to the point.

For all that cut and past -

Fail.


Meanwhile...

1 arrest has been made in the case in Mobile.

Yep. One.

Quote:

MOBILE, Ala. (WALA) - The Mobile County District Attorney's Office says Mobile police have made an arrest in the beating of Matthew Owens.

Authorities say the suspect is 44-year-old Terry Rawls. They say he is charged with first degree assault.

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/arrest-made-i
n-matthew-owens-assault





I'm hoping more arrests are to forthcoming.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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