Bail and Blood by Hero

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bail and Blood

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Friday, April 27, 2012 10:37
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VIEWED: 5079
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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The judge ordered Zimmerman to wear a GPS monitoring device, give up any guns, abide by a
7 p.m. to 6 a.m. curfew plus imposed other restrictions. O'Mara surrendered Zimmerman's
passport.

Yanno, I really wouldn't be too opposed to those conditions right there being the extent of the mans sentence should the Martin family agree - guy has already been excoriated for what he has done, has offered apology sincere or not, and those conditions preclude a repeat offense of this nature.
Lockin him up ain't gonna bring Treyvon back from the dead yanno, so what the hell is that really gonna accomplish?

And I ain't liking the fact that the damn prosecutor has serious bias and hostility issues, as I mentioned previously.
I've stated my opinion of what likely happened, and I stand to that assessment - but I believe in restorative justice, not retributive, and the essential right to a fair trial, which I do not believe is gonna be the case so long as Angie is prosecuting this one.

Sure, I think Zimmerman is a creep, and a damn fool, but he's the one who's gotta live with what he's done and I can't see the bastard being so thickheaded as not to have appreciated the enormity of his act by now, so other than ensuring he's not in any position to commit a similar act, what would one have the court DO ?

Just stuff to think about, is all.

-Frem

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:58 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Sure, I think Zimmerman is a creep, and a damn fool, but he's the one who's gotta live with what he's done and I can't see the bastard being so thickheaded as not to have appreciated the enormity of his act by now, so other than ensuring he's not in any position to commit a similar act, what would one have the court DO ?

The first thing the court could do is give him a fair trial, which is something you don't seem to want.

You have decided based on what little information and half-truths have been presented in the media that he is guilty of...something, just not murder.

At first you decided he is guilty of murder, he hunted this poor innocent black child down and executed him. Now the facts suggest he was not hunting, it was not an execution, and Martin is not an innocent child.

So you are willing to accept that he be monitored and prevented from owning a gun...so he can't do that again. That's absurd. Your argument is that he is not guilty of murder...which is only true if you have made the leap that Zimmerman was telling the truth...which means you've concluded he was defending himself...for which you are STILL willing to punish him...because he's a "creep" and a "fool" neither of which define any crime I'm aware of.

In short you wanted to punish because you decided he's guilty, now you want to punish him because you've decided he's not guilty.

H

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:11 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
The first thing the court could do is give him a fair trial, which is something you don't seem to want.

Well, that's rather ironic, all things considered.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

As usual, Zeros massive psychological blind spots interfere with his reading comprehension.

Not that this was ever unexpected, but it does kind of crimp any rational discussion when the other party is fundamentally incapable of even comprehending you due to their own psychological issues.

-F

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:06 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Well either way you slice it its going to trial. I just hope that the right verdict will be reached, whatever that is in this particular case isn't for me to decide, i wasn't there and don't know.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:24 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What's wrong with either the FairTax or Flat Tax ? Either would be a vast upgrade from our current system. And eliminating or greatly down sizing the IRS ? No offense to Mme Geezer, but I call that a win / win.

Fair Tax (23% sales tax replacing income, and SSA taxes) has all sorts of enforcement problems when there's that much money involved that businesses have to collect (especially when you considre there will probably be state sales taxes of 10% or more if they have to adapt the same system, putting lots of money out there to tempt the businesses that collect it. That much money is gonna tempt businesses to skim). There's also the problem of verifying the amount of "prebate" sent to taxpayers monthly (which takes a bureaucracy to do). Also need some organization to determine if folks are illegally claiming to be businesses to avoid the sales tax, etc. The IRS might go away, but you'd need a similar bureaucracy to administer Fair Tax. Aside from that, the Fair Tax proposals I've seen will tend to hammer the middle-class since they spend more of their money than the rich, but won't get as mcuh of the "prebate" proportionate to income as the poor.

The problem with Flat Tax is pretty much the problem IRS has to deal with now. What is income? Not too hard to figure out for wage earners, but for self-employed or folks with investment incomes or performance based compensation (salespersons, CEOs, brokers, etc.) it's not that easy.

Besides this, Congress is never going to give up the ability to give preferential tax breaks to special interest groups; from EITC for the poor to Capital Gains for the rich.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:02 PM

OONJERAH

The Bloody Head:

April 20, ABC, http://www.hiphopstan.com/george-zimmerman-bloody-head-video/
April 20, ABC, http://abcnews.go.com/meta/search/imageDetail?format=plain&source=
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419

April 20, FOX, http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/20/video-shows-injuries-to-george-zi
mmerman-head/

Quite a few other sites show the picture. All I found were Blogs, Political Opinions.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:04 PM

OONJERAH

ONTD Political (blog?) => http://ontd-political.livejournal.com/9576604.html

During his bond hearing, Zimmerman lied on the stand during his apology to
Trayvon Martin’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton.
“I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was,” said
Zimerman. “I thought he was a little bit older than I was.”

But during his 911 call on Feb. 26, Zimmerman clearly told the dispatcher he
believed Trayvon was in his late teens. source

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 3:45 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Is there any accepted sequence of events out there? Z spots M in his watch area, doesn't recognize him, assumes the worst from M's dress and his own demons, calls the police and against the dispatcher's directive, follows M., then...? Then either M turns to confront Z and starts beating on Z and Z pulls the gun and shoots M.? Or does Z try and physically stop M? Obviously we only have Z's testimony. What would make a teenager (even with an attitude) attack an adult, if that's Z's story?

That (and the path of the bullet) is what I'm going to be looking for from the trial: what Zimmerman says was what made Martin attack him, will it seem plausible? Why wouldn't M just say, "who are you, why are you following me? I live here..." What was the flash point that pushed this to violence?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
The first thing the court could do is give him a fair trial, which is something you don't seem to want.

Yes, that's asinine, given a trial is what (as far as I can tell) everyone here has agreed is the right thing to do, and nobody has said he should be put in prison unless a jury finds him guilty. We've even been saying that most of us feel manslaughter would be the more reasonabe charge to prosecute him on.

As far as I can see, Frem (who has his own biases) was expressing his feelings; I disagree with them and they don't seem logical to me, his main question is what else should the court DO, if he's found guilty:

Quote:
I believe in restorative justice, not retributive, and the essential right to a fair trial, which I do not believe is gonna be the case so long as Angie is prosecuting this one.

That's pretty clear, and if anything, indicates he doesn't think Zimmerman is going to get a fair trial, so what should be the outcome of an UNfair trial?

That you choose to view it otherwise is an expression of your own prejudice I see it as Frem believing Zimmerman will be convicted because the trial won't be fair, and being against Zimmerman being sent to jail.

Obviously, at least to me, the idea of doing what Frem has suggested isn't even possible; the law doesn't provide for it, and I'd have questions about civil rights, etc. But he was expressing an opinion which, given what he wrote, is perfectly understandable. Mischaracterizing it is your choice.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
As noted above, it's probably because ABC purchased EXCLUSIVE rights to the photo. Anyone else using it without their permission would be subject to suit.

As to why they're not using it more, could be that they don't want to prejudice the jury pool, or could be that they'd rather not interrupt the "Racist White Man Gunning Down Poor Black Kid" vibe.

Geezer's response as to why the photo hasn't showed up is meaningless, given it HAS shown up elsewhere and his snark at the end is ridiculous.

I, too, couldn't find reference to it anywhere on the MSM or cable news websites--whether it's been mentioned on their TV reports or not I don't know, as I don't watch the Big Three news and don't watch cable news except in the evening. I assume it's not been covered, however. It was interesting to see the only "news" site to mention it was FauxNews; to me that's telling. Will be interesting to see whether it shows up at trial, which I doubt. Given they can't authenticate it completely and/or it wasn't part of the evidence (such as it was) collected by the police. Personally, I wish it would be addressed and sufficiently authenticated; if it's real, it's a valid piece of evidence.

Someone also asked back a ways whether there was reason to doubt Zimmerman's account. I gave at leat one example of why there was; Oonj's example is another one, and it hadn't occurred to me, but is quite obvious. Given there is authenticated proof of Zimmerman having said he believed Martin was in his late teens is unquestionably evidence that he lied on the stand. So there are at least two examples of Zimmerman having changed his story and, in the second example, that he lied ON THE STAND.

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Friday, April 27, 2012 10:37 AM

OONJERAH

Today

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