Yes, thank you, I WOULD like more firefighters... by PhoenixRose

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

These are photos I took, from my neighborhood, of the High Park Fire. It burned over 45,000 acres in four days, and is now less than 15% contained on the fifth day. Projections are saying it likely won't be "controlled" (hot spots all put out) until autumn. Hundreds of people have lost their homes, livestock have been burned alive, and the National Forest and its animals are in serious danger of being wiped off the map because containment is so difficult.

There are nine heavy tankers in the country for fighting fires, and five of them are flying over my house on a regular basis. This leaves the New Mexico fires and the other Colorado fires without much air support. Why are there not more tankers? Why couldn't more people be devoted to this sooner, before it was a class one emergency?
And tell me please, WHY is the president being mocked and shot down for saying that public service is important and might deserve some resources?

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:43 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

First, because the Republicans will knock whatEVER he says or does--bearing in mind their #1 priority is his defeat.

Second, because they don't want government doing much of ANYTHING (unless it benefits private industry)-- bearing in mind they have privatized education, prisons, etc. I'm sure firefighting will be next, if they get their way.

As to US? They don't give a shit. Surely you knew all that already.

My heart breaks for you...we're used to massive wildfires in California, but it hurts whenever one goes on like that, anywhere.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:45 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think most people who aren't adjacent to a raging fire don't have your perspective.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:51 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
My heart breaks for you...we're used to massive wildfires in California

Oh, they're fairly routine here as well, this one is just particularly bad. There were three or four "problem areas" that were a concern for the fire marshal... and they all ignited last week during a massive thunderstorm. We had literal desert precipitation this year (we usually qualify as "semi-arid" by a couple inches) so it's been especially dry, and pine beetles have been turning our trees to tinder. Add to that it's been 90 degrees with gusty, shifting wind. I think I saw something that said it was the third worst fire in Colorado history, and it hasn't been burning all that long.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I think most people who aren't adjacent to a raging fire don't have your perspective.

You may be right. You're probably right.

I would just like to point out that the smoke from this is visible from space...

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:29 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

PR,
the photos from space give a new meaning to " adjacent", as it should.
Not wishing any bad luck on others, but I sure hope it stays away from you, and moves the other way.

BTW, my daughter is living in Aurora or Aurora Springs, apparently some kind of suburb of Denver. Hope that's also far, far away.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

PR, after our summer of fires last year, Romney's idiotic remarks are playing none to well around this part of Texas. We, of course, had to deal with Rick Perry attempting to pray the fires away...

Stay safe, have a bugout bag packed, and be ready to move FAST if needed. Best of luck, and my thoughts are with you and yours.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:53 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I sure hope it stays away from you, and moves the other way.
BTW, my daughter is living in Aurora or Aurora Springs, apparently some kind of suburb of Denver. Hope that's also far, far away.

Oh, Aurora is eighty miles away from me, and I'm twenty-ish miles from the flames. She'll be fine

It's mostly moving to the west and north, which is good for me and Fort Collins, the next city over. Bad for the national forest. Sometimes the wind sweeps back this way, though. The fire is actually creating its own wind patterns.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
PR, after our summer of fires last year, Romney's idiotic remarks are playing none to well around this part of Texas. We, of course, had to deal with Rick Perry attempting to pray the fires away...

Stay safe, have a bugout bag packed, and be ready to move FAST if needed. Best of luck, and my thoughts are with you and yours.

Appreciated. We've been soaking the fence and the house, just in case it does get this far, but it's fortunately being contained on this side first. If it does come this way, I think I'll just be grabbing computers and running.

And yeah, fire season does seem to be a bad time to be saying we don't need more firefighters.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:11 PM

HERO

Wildfires? You don't need more firefighters, you need more of those water dropping planes and a work release program for convicts.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:39 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
and a work release program for convicts.

Hello,

I've always considered firefighting to be a relatively intensive job practiced by trusted professionals. I'm not sure putting prisoners on the task would be the wisest use of their skillset.

Quote:
You don't need more firefighters, you need more of those water dropping planes

And all the resources needed to man and maintain them. I presume she meant more firefighting resources in general.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:57 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:
You don't need more firefighters, you need more of those water dropping planes

And all the resources needed to man and maintain them. I presume she meant more firefighting resources in general.

I did, yes, though the people doing the work is a big part of it.

And they aren't "water dropping planes." They drop gallons of fire retardant, and they're called tankers. I'm not super shocked that Hero doesn't have to deal with this sort of thing enough to know the basics.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:30 PM

Yup....

Look up "Oak Lawn, IL" "Fire Department" on Google. Just about as "Urban" you can get without being Chicago. They've got 94 full time firefighters on the taxpayer's dole 24/7 who pretty much do nothing but sit around all day playing cards.

Six Sigma the Government!

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

Hello,

I think most people who aren't adjacent to a raging fire don't have your perspective.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 8:41 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

You think this is a joke, 6ix? My home (not my house, to be clear) is burning. And there are 1000 firefighters here, doing their job, to your 94 who you claim aren't. Those hundreds of very hard working people are saving two cities from burning to the ground, and some of them will probably die doing it. Those people deserve your respect. And if you really think they're worthless, you better be willing to say that to their faces. Or hey, take the safer option and just say it to anyone living within 100 miles of this blaze, because the firemen can probably hit harder.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:09 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup....

Look up "Oak Lawn, IL" "Fire Department" on Google. Just about as "Urban" you can get without being Chicago. They've got 94 full time firefighters on the taxpayer's dole 24/7 who pretty much do nothing but sit around all day playing cards.

As opposed to, say... collecting unemployment for the last couple years, Jack?

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:53 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup Anthony, firefighting is a specialized skill--using prisoners (whose would likely be more interested in keeping themselves safe than containing a fire) is just asking for disaster. Jim's son was in a forest firefighting unit and went through months and months of training AND physical conditioning. Even then, he had to "apprentice" for quite some time, not being allowed where more seasoned firefighters were working, but on the edges, so he could learn from others. It's not a matter of just holding a hose and pointing it at the fire! To imagine prisoners replacing trained, seasoned firefighters is simplistic thinking.

Rose is right about those planes too (tho' some do drop water from nearby lakes I believe)...and I might mention that they are singularly ineffective by themselves and are only an additional tool to all the others.

Anyone who thinks we need fewer firefighters should experience having their home burning and the fire department having to call in firefighters from further-away departments because there are too few firefighters. Arsonists are encouraged at the current situation no doubt, and I imagine will be more active in places where there are cutbacks.

Fewer cops will impact people, as well, and both will lead to more crime being less contained, I would imagine. Given the dangers of firefighting, their lifespans, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Quote:
Firefighters have shorter life expectancies than the average population and are three times more likely to die on the job, due to inherent risks, physical and mental stresses, and exposures to toxic and carcinogenic compounds released in smoke.

They concluded

Quote:
Although occupations such as timber cutter, fisher, seaman, and aircraft pilot have the highest fatality rates, they are found in relatively few parts of the United States. [...] Firefighters and law enforcement personnel, on the other hand, are found in every community in the United States. Although the dangers are quite different, both groups experience high fatality rates and risks.

To be crass about having too many firefighters is to disrespect both them and the job they do, in my opinion. I have the highest regard for firefighters and can't imagine what it must take to walk INTO a burning building!

The thing to keep in mind is that the current Republican politicians want to do away with most (if not all) public services and "government workers", and privatize what they do currently; I don't think they give much thought to the consequences of public employees as people, more as just numbers. Sounds good to their base, which makes it a good talking point.

Rose, my heart goes out to you. We had a big one in the Santa Cruz Mountains a while back that could be seen from space, too, if you recall, and it's just heartbreaking for me to envision the destruction they do to massive areas of beautiful land, not to mention the ones that wipe out a lot of families. Luckily (for us) it's mostly So. Ca. that suffers most fires in California, but we get some pretty bad ones up this way from time to time, too. It's always sad, and devastating for those who experience it.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:34 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Rose is right about those planes too (tho' some do drop water from nearby lakes I believe)...and I might mention that they are singularly ineffective by themselves and are only an additional tool to all the others.

I haven't seen footage of any of them dropping water here. It might be because we don't have the water to spare, but I think it's likely because water isn't quite as effective when it's not in a steady stream. Chemical fire retardants won't evaporate off within five seconds of being dropped on a very large and very hot fire on a very hot and very dry day, which is all we've been having.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:53 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think water ends up being used in places where there is a nearby supply. like a lake.

Quote:

Based on historical data, each plane can make a drop every fifteen minutes. Working in tandem, this equates to 7,200 U.S. gallons (27,276 litres) every seven minutes and each drop can cover an area of up to 4 acres (1.6 hectares). The aircraft can also carry up to 600 U.S. gallons (2,270 litres) of foam concentrate for gelling the load drop.[7] They are used to fight fires along the coast of British Columbia and sometimes in the interior. As of July 29, 2010, the Martin Mars was being used to fight the Mason Lake/Bonaparte Lake fire north of Kamloops.[8]

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:15 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Yup" to both of you. I'm sure that is the reason, Rose; nonetheless, retardant IS more effective, and some footage of fires I've seen show them using both--I seem to remember at least once hearing them say having some planes using water was because returning to base to load up with retardant took longer, so they had some bringing water from a nearby lake.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:38 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Wow Rose, I hope you guys are still okay, that's pretty scary stuff. Firefighters are amazing people and I would never think we need less, you've got to be so brave to do that kind of work. I sure hope they can get that fire contained soon, for people and for wildlife/trees.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:51 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

They actually have been dropping water on the fire. There's a few photos of that in this article:
http://www.coloradoan.com/viewart/20120611/NEWS01/306110003/Sheriff-s-
spokesman-says-containment-High-Park-Fire-should-go-up-morning

As far as the rest of it, I'm all for more firefighters, but in this particular case I'm not sure how much help they would have been. I mean, this fire just exploded, and I think no matter how much faster people had moved it still would have been an enormous challenge. And maybe this makes me heartless, but I'm not too sad about people losing their homes. It's the risk they take living up there, much like people who live in the Gulf of Mexico have to deal with hurricanes or people on the plains with tornadoes.

The loss of life is sad - human and otherwise - but homes can always be rebuilt.

And since there has been so little loss of life, at least as far as I know (1 reported human death, don't know about pets, etc.), my primary concern is the air and water quality. As much as I like it when the wind's not blowing the smoke our way, it just means someone else has to deal with it. And if a much smaller fire can do this...

Quote:
Fort Collins Utilities stopped taking water from the Poudre River last week after rainwater running off the Hewlett Fire burn area [which was less than 8,000 acres] temporarily turned the river black, Voytko said.

source: http://www.coloradoan.com/viewart/20120611/NEWS01/306110013/City-Serio
us-concerns-about-High-Park-Fire-s-effects-water-quality

... who knows how bad it'll get after this fire.

On the bright side, at least it doesn't look like the fucking apocalypse anymore, at least where I am. This is what it looked like at my house on Sunday:

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:07 PM

Hey PR,

Sorry about your situation. There are REAL firefighters like the NYPD and those who have to fight forest blazes that truly earn their paychecks and go to work many days with the mentality that it might be their last day making that trip from home. I didn't mean to take anything away from them, so I apologize for that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup....

Look up "Oak Lawn, IL" "Fire Department" on Google. Just about as "Urban" you can get without being Chicago. They've got 94 full time firefighters on the taxpayer's dole 24/7 who pretty much do nothing but sit around all day playing cards.

As opposed to, say... collecting unemployment for the last couple years, Jack?

I have no shame in collecting unemployment that I paid for all those years I was working, nor do I find any shame in how I spent that time off. Just because I wasn't working a traditional job, doesn't mean that I wasn't bettering my own future and helping my family, which also has the lasting effect that I won't be a welfare statistic in the future.

Half of that money I saved and I spent much of that time consoling my f'd up bro, researching the housing market and rehabbing my own dream house. If I'd have been working as hard on my forced "stay-cation" as 99% of suburban fire-fighters do 99 days out of 100, I'd be dwindling away my savings paying somebody else rent money and applying for food stamps and government funded insurance benefits in this job market.

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:39 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I have no shame in collecting unemployment that I paid for all those years I was working, nor do I find any shame in how I spent that time off. Just because I wasn't working a traditional job, doesn't mean that I wasn't bettering my own future and helping my family, which also has the lasting effect that I won't be a welfare statistic in the future.

But you seem very quick to want to deprive others of the same opportunities to "better" themselves in whatever way they see fit while collecting unemployment benefits that THEY paid for.

Quote:

Half of that money I saved and I spent much of that time consoling my f'd up bro, researching the housing market and rehabbing my own dream house. If I'd have been working as hard on my forced "stay-cation" as 99% of suburban fire-fighters do 99 days out of 100, I'd be dwindling away my savings paying somebody else rent money and applying for food stamps and government funded insurance benefits in this job market.

So if they work 1 day out of 100, that's still more than you've worked in the last two years. They've earned more than you have, you have to admit...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:46 PM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
My heart breaks for you...we're used to massive wildfires in California

Oh, they're fairly routine here as well, this one is just particularly bad. There were three or four "problem areas" that were a concern for the fire marshal... and they all ignited last week during a massive thunderstorm. We had literal desert precipitation this year (we usually qualify as "semi-arid" by a couple inches) so it's been especially dry, and pine beetles have been turning our trees to tinder. Add to that it's been 90 degrees with gusty, shifting wind. I think I saw something that said it was the third worst fire in Colorado history, and it hasn't been burning all that long.

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I think most people who aren't adjacent to a raging fire don't have your perspective.

You may be right. You're probably right.

I would just like to point out that the smoke from this is visible from space...

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

Ya know what's also visible from space, Obama's ears.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:57 PM

No Kwick,

Sorry, but I won't fall for your failed logic.

Quote:
But you seem very quick to want to deprive others of the same opportunities to "better" themselves in whatever way they see fit while collecting unemployment benefits that THEY paid for.

I never said that people shouldn't be able to collect unemployment insurance. Show me where I posted that.

Let's not kid ourselves though, most people on unemployment who don't find a new job within the first month or two end up on it the whole time, and most people who fall into that category do nothing to better themselves in the long run with it.

I'm still not denying they should get benefits they paid into.

Quote:
So if they work 1 day out of 100, that's still more than you've worked in the last two years. They've earned more than you have, you have to admit...

Again, no....

When the day comes that you've spent 5 months of your life fielding 3 hour daily phonecalls from your mentally compromised younger brother, being his unpaid therapist because you're afraid that he will quit his job if you weren't there to talk to him (which he eventually did), then you can tell me I didn't do anything while collecting unemployment. On top of that, I successfully navigated a down housing market and made the best choice of my life to move out of state right across the border of Crook County, IL where we're running a budget surplus and taxes overall across the board are less than 3/8th's of what they'd be over there. The last 5 months of unemployment I was able to turn a 70k purchase into something that would easily sell for 90k, even in this market, with only about 3-4k of money out of my pocket.

I've made only 1k in taxable income this year, yet I've paid over 4k in taxes because most of my "income" was retirement withdrawals with penalties. I start my first "steady" part time job on Monday, and even though it's close to minimum wage and only part time, I won't bleed my state's economy by having to ask for food stamps or "free" health insurance... all the while, I'll find ways to make money on my days off and continue improving my house while looking for a better job with benefits.

So.... hmmmmm.....

I've worked enough to make 1k this year, at near minimum wage.

I've paid the FED about 2,200 and the rest of the 4k+ went to state income taxes and property taxes.

I've paid my bills and taxes on time, and I'm starting a new job on Monday (however lowly it may be), WELL before I put myself in any position to beg for hand outs of any sort. All the while, I've not only maintained my excellent credit score, but I was thrilled to find out that my Trans Union credit score as of April of this year was a staggering 790.

You're barking up the wrong tree here brother.....

These aren't the droids you're looking for....

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:23 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Jack,

You make a lot of easy assumptions about what 'most people' do with their unemployment.

Then you balk that you had family issues you were dealing with when people make assumptions about you.

I think it's time to acknowledge that you don't know 'most people' and that other people besides you may have problems and family issues and lots of stuff going on.

I've never heard of a long-time unemployment collector who was more judgmental about other people in his situation.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Jack,

You make a lot of easy assumptions about what 'most people' do with their unemployment.

Then you balk that you had family issues you were dealing with when people make assumptions about you.

I think it's time to acknowledge that you don't know 'most people' and that other people besides you may have problems and family issues and lots of stuff going on.

I've never heard of a long-time unemployment collector who was more judgmental about other people in his situation.

Mayhap that's because you've also never heard of a "success story" as the endgame of those unemployment benefits.

I know I never have....

To clarify, I am not bastardizing the Unemployment system for people who were laid off last-second like I was but had a wife and kids and a mortgage to pay. Regardless of how quickly they find a job that can compete with the generous unemployment compensation, it's good they have it to keep afloat in the mean time.

I was simply referring to people in my own boat. Single guys with nothing to lose. Why work a job for pennies when unemployment is paying more than you could make even if you worked full time? Especially when they'll pay you for 96 weeks?

It's not like I didn't apply for jobs... at first, I applied for a ton of jobs with good salaries and benefits, but I wasn't "qualified" because I had no degree.

So... I kept doing that on the side but focusing on making my own life better.

Now I don't need one of those jobs I'm "not qualified" for....

F-Them....

I know you're not argumentative like Kwick Anthony.... If I came off that way, I apologize...

I'm just saying that I actually did something to make my life better with the lemons life gave me.

If even 10 percent of us did that, we'd probably not be riding a sinking ship in the middle of the Atlantic today.

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:26 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Hey Yinyang, good to see you again

Quote:
Originally posted by YINYANG:
They actually have been dropping water on the fire. There's a few photos of that in this article:
http://www.coloradoan.com/viewart/20120611/NEWS01/306110003/Sheriff-s-
spokesman-says-containment-High-Park-Fire-should-go-up-morning

Yup, the 'copters are definitely using water. Looks like that's their primary design, though, since they have that hose attachment, and they can spray a directed, concentrated stream. The tankers I've seen have been dropping a mist of orange slurry. If they dropped water the same way, it might all turn to steam before it reached any actual fire.
Speaking of tankers, the president signed a bill yesterday for immediate additions to the country's heavy tanker fleet, so that's good news.

Quote:
I'm all for more firefighters, but in this particular case I'm not sure how much help they would have been. I mean, this fire just exploded, and I think no matter how much faster people had moved it still would have been an enormous challenge.

Oh, I agree, but the sheer manpower it's taken to reach a tentative 20% containment is kind of staggering. I think it would have been very, very bad if that manpower was not available. And considering that the number of firefighters on the ground has doubled in about five days, and we were at zero containment for days, it's possible that double the firefighters on, say, day two of the fire would have made an impact on how much it spread. Pure speculation, I know. But I saw the smoke when it was just getting started, and it looked like something I'd seen before, a fairly standard little flare-up that would be out in a few days, not a 50,000-acre disaster getting ready to happen.
I would also say that firefighters (or other public servants) could work on fire prevention. If some of that dead wood had been cleared last year, when the pine beetles were reaching epidemic proportions, this might not have been such an explosive tinderbox. (Or, crazy idea, pour some water on that tinderbox before it catches a lighting strike. I know it can be difficult to justify resources for fighting a fire before it's even started, because it has to be a certified disaster before action can be approved... but damn, wouldn't it have been cheaper? They knew where the problem areas were, but couldn't take action until they were all burning? Seems silly to me, but I'm me and not a bureaucrat in charge of allocating resources. I know there are fires everywhere, and there need to be priorities. Still. Damn.)
It's also possible that a swifter air response could have slowed the fire down some. There are tankers 15 minutes away, they just weren't sent in as soon as the smoke was spotted. Again, holding back resources only costs more money, more time, more risk.

Quote:
my primary concern is the air and water quality. ... who knows how bad it'll get after this fire.

I do kind of shudder to think. My eyes have been burning for days, and I'm not even in the thick of it, except when the nighttime winds come out of the north. And my poor mother has been coughing all week because she has near-asthmatic lungs.

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On the bright side, at least it doesn't look like the fucking apocalypse anymore, at least where I am. This is what it looked like at my house on Sunday:

]

That photo is actually kind of awesome. I mean, in a scary way, but it's a gorgeous color.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 6:21 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

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Let's not kid ourselves though, most people on unemployment who don't find a new job within the first month or two end up on it the whole time, and most people who fall into that category do nothing to better themselves in the long run with it.

Wow. What a statement! "What Anthony said", in spades.

By the way, you're reading a post from one, Six. First time I was laid off, I didn't find a job for SIX months; the minute I found it, I got off unemployment. Actually, it happened to me when I was younger, too, several times. But that time, I'd worked for the same company for EIGHT years before being laid off. Then later I was laid off after THREE YEARS and it took me almost a year to find another job; I went into the City three times a week to do interviews, took more tests than I can remember, went to new employment firms and re-checked ones I was already with and scoured the papers when I wasn't going to interviews.

My husband was laid off from the same firm as I a year later; he ended up taking a PAPER ROUTE after searching for over four months, then later worked for a liquor store, before he found a job in the City...and he was in his fifties at the time. We struggled for several years after being laid off from McCutchen (the best salaries either of us had had in years), but we never gave up, and meanwhile gave money to and provided a home for his son who'd been injured in the Army (not in combat, he never got that far, but it fucked up his leg and the Army "fixed" it wrong, so he's had trouble with it ever since). Jeff has had numerous jobs since then because he's determined to stay in Jackson, Wyoming, which he loves...he's taken any and every job he can all these years because it's a seasonal area with not a lot of work; he's been laid off numerous times as a result of seasonal occupations, but every time he bounces back--sometimes after months--and gets another.

Choey's boyfriend got laid off from his long-time employment OVER A YEAR AGO. He does the same as I did, to this day, while living with and caring for his ill, aging mother, and tries to deal with his druggie daughter and take care of her two children. He does part-time work when he can find it, right down to yard work, on top of all that. Yup, a month off and he just plain gave up.

So there's four examples for you, now you know at least four. Anthony's got it right; it's readily apparent that you don't seem to have much understanding of "most people", but are right quick to make assumptions about them!

ETA: Nice for Raptor that he can take some time off, since you seem to be holding up his end when it comes to absurd statements, disparaging those who haven't done as well as you, and defending the right, for him. Paranoid as I am about sickpuppies, I can't help wondering if Raptor created you back in '06 in order to have another personna like himself.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 6:29 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

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Paranoid as I am about sickpuppies, I can't help wondering if Raptor created you back in '06 in order to have another personna like himself.

Hello,

There are plenty to go around without a Xerox machine, I'm afraid.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 15, 2012 6:31 AM