Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Clinton killed tonight.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, gawd, you would DARE say that after the wall-to-wall, blatant, repeately debunked LIES that flew around the RNC with the speed of motzablls through hot chicken broth!

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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — We heard a number of dubious or misleading claims on the first night of the Democratic National Convention:
¦The keynote speaker and others claimed the Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, would raise taxes on the “middle class.” He has promised he won’t. Democrats base their claim on a study that doesn’t necessarily lead to that conclusion.
¦The keynote speaker, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, also said there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under Obama. The fact is the economy has regained only 4 million of the 4.3 million jobs lost since Obama took office.
¦Castro also insisted Romney and Ryan would “gut” Pell Grants for lower-income college students. Actually, the Ryan budget calls only for “limiting the growth” of spending for the program, and Ryan has said the maximum grant of $5,550 would not be decreased.
¦A Democratic governor said Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” Actually, Massachusetts went from 50th in job creation during Romney’s first year to 28th in his final year.
¦Two advocates of equal-pay legislation said women make 77 cents for every dollar men earn. That’s true on average, but the gap for women doing the same work as men is much less, and not entirely or even mostly the result of job discrimination.
¦A union president accused Romney of seeking “a government bailout” for “his company.” Not really. In fact, Romney negotiated a favorable but routine settlement with bank regulators on behalf of a former company, the one he had left to form his own Bain Capital firm. No taxpayer funds were involved.
¦Multiple speakers repeated a claim that the Ryan/Romney Medicare plan would cost seniors $6,400 a year. That’s a figure that applied to Ryan’s 2011 budget plan, but his current proposal (the one Romney embraces) is far more generous. The Congressional Budget Office says it “may” lead to higher costs for beneficiaries, but it can’t estimate how much.
¦In prepared remarks released to reporters, Rep. James Clyburn engaged in partisan myth-making with the claim “Democrats created Social Security” while Republicans “cursed the darkness.” History records strong bipartisan support in both House and Senate for the measure President Roosevelt signed in 1935.

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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — On the second night of their convention, Democrats misled viewers with claims about Republican economic and social policies. Among the convention canards:
¦Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy said the Republican platform would “take away a woman’s right to choose even if she is a rape victim.” The GOP platform strongly opposes abortion, but is silent on exceptions — leaving that up to the states.
¦The president of Planned Parenthood said Romney and Ryan “are committed to ending insurance coverage for birth control.” That’s not true. Both men have spoken against the government requiring employers to cover birth control at no cost to employees.
¦A venture capitalist claims that Obama is “more than 60 percent” toward his goal of doubling exports by 2015. Government figures show the exports have increased by 29 percent since Obama announced his goal.
¦Several Democrats claimed the “Romney and Ryan budget” would cut domestic spending 20 percent across the board, crippling (fill in your favorite federally funded program). The Ryan plan doesn’t say what programs would be cut. And Romney has said he would not apply cuts evenly.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Clinton killed tonight.

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The truth, apparently.

http://www.wtop.com/209/3022260/FACT-CHECK-Clinton-claims-of-compromis
e-a-stretch

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Clinton killed tonight.

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The truth, apparently.

http://www.wtop.com/209/3022260/FACT-CHECK-Clinton-claims-of-compromis
e-a-stretch

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The problem with compromising in Washington is that there are few true moderates left in either party. The notion that Republicans are the only ones standing in the way of compromise is inaccurate.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, gawd, you would DARE say that after the wall-to-wall, blatant, repeately debunked LIES that flew around the RNC with the speed of motzablls through hot chicken broth!

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Yep. Lies are lies, regardless of who says them.

Here's some more from Charlotte, from FactCheck.org

Quote:

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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — We heard a number of dubious or misleading claims on the first night of the Democratic National Convention:
¦The keynote speaker and others claimed the Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, would raise taxes on the “middle class.” He has promised he won’t. Democrats base their claim on a study that doesn’t necessarily lead to that conclusion.
¦The keynote speaker, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, also said there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under Obama. The fact is the economy has regained only 4 million of the 4.3 million jobs lost since Obama took office.
¦Castro also insisted Romney and Ryan would “gut” Pell Grants for lower-income college students. Actually, the Ryan budget calls only for “limiting the growth” of spending for the program, and Ryan has said the maximum grant of $5,550 would not be decreased.
¦A Democratic governor said Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” Actually, Massachusetts went from 50th in job creation during Romney’s first year to 28th in his final year.
¦Two advocates of equal-pay legislation said women make 77 cents for every dollar men earn. That’s true on average, but the gap for women doing the same work as men is much less, and not entirely or even mostly the result of job discrimination.
¦A union president accused Romney of seeking “a government bailout” for “his company.” Not really. In fact, Romney negotiated a favorable but routine settlement with bank regulators on behalf of a former company, the one he had left to form his own Bain Capital firm. No taxpayer funds were involved.
¦Multiple speakers repeated a claim that the Ryan/Romney Medicare plan would cost seniors $6,400 a year. That’s a figure that applied to Ryan’s 2011 budget plan, but his current proposal (the one Romney embraces) is far more generous. The Congressional Budget Office says it “may” lead to higher costs for beneficiaries, but it can’t estimate how much.
¦In prepared remarks released to reporters, Rep. James Clyburn engaged in partisan myth-making with the claim “Democrats created Social Security” while Republicans “cursed the darkness.” History records strong bipartisan support in both House and Senate for the measure President Roosevelt signed in 1935.

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http://factcheck.org/2012/09/democratic-disinformation-from-charlotte/

and...

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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — On the second night of their convention, Democrats misled viewers with claims about Republican economic and social policies. Among the convention canards:
¦Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy said the Republican platform would “take away a woman’s right to choose even if she is a rape victim.” The GOP platform strongly opposes abortion, but is silent on exceptions — leaving that up to the states.
¦The president of Planned Parenthood said Romney and Ryan “are committed to ending insurance coverage for birth control.” That’s not true. Both men have spoken against the government requiring employers to cover birth control at no cost to employees.
¦A venture capitalist claims that Obama is “more than 60 percent” toward his goal of doubling exports by 2015. Government figures show the exports have increased by 29 percent since Obama announced his goal.
¦Several Democrats claimed the “Romney and Ryan budget” would cut domestic spending 20 percent across the board, crippling (fill in your favorite federally funded program). The Ryan plan doesn’t say what programs would be cut. And Romney has said he would not apply cuts evenly.

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http://factcheck.org/2012/09/day-2-more-convention-canards/

And in other liar news, DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz got a Pants on Fire from PolitiFact and Four Pinocchios from the Washington Post FactChecker for denying she made a comment that was caught on tape.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/sep/05/debbie-wasser
man-schultz/wasserman-schultz-said-she-didnt-make-comments-abo/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/debbie-wasserman
-schultzs-false-accusation-of-a-misquote/2012/09/05/bde6f37c-f78d-11e1-8398-0327ab83ab91_blog.html?wprss=rss_fact-checker

Also, "...with the speed of motzablls through hot chicken broth!"????

This has to be the absolute worst metaphor I've ever seen.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Clinton killed tonight.

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The truth, apparently.

http://www.wtop.com/209/3022260/FACT-CHECK-Clinton-claims-of-compromis
e-a-stretch

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Compared to Ryan, who was just oozing thruthiness, right geez?


Hilarious.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Maybe we could stick to the Clinton speech Geezer, since that was the specific title of the thread? By all means start a new thread about these other speeches.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Clinton make actual valid POINTS:

“So here’s another jobs score: President Obama plus 4.5 million, congressional Republicans zero.”

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by kpo:
Maybe we could stick to the Clinton speech Geezer, since that was the specific title of the thread? By all means start a new thread about these other speeches.

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It was Niki who broadened the subject by complaining about all the lies flying around the RNC "...with the speed of motzablls through hot chicken broth!". Sort'a seems to me that that opened the floor for comments about lies at conventions in general.

Then there was Story, who chirped in with comments about Paul Ryan's "thruthiness".

Gonna ask them to get back on topic? Or learn how to spell?

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Clinton killed tonight.

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The truth, apparently.

http://www.wtop.com/209/3022260/FACT-CHECK-Clinton-claims-of-compromis
e-a-stretch

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Compared to Ryan, who was just oozing thruthiness, right geez?


Hilarious.

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Ah yes. Making up things you thought I said again.

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Per the FactCheck I quoted earlier.

"The keynote speaker, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, also said there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under Obama. The fact is the economy has regained only 4 million of the 4.3 million jobs lost since Obama took office."

So not so actual or valid, perhaps.

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But while a total of 4.5 million jobs sounds great, it's not the whole picture.

Nonfarm private payrolls hit a post-recession low of 106.8 million that month, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The figure currently stands at 111.3 million as of July.

While that is indeed a gain of 4.5 million, it's only a net gain of 300,000 over the course of the Obama administration to date.

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Clinton praised the effectiveness of portions of Obama's health care legislation that won't even go into effect until 2014

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Originally posted by whozit:

FYI, they're not going to have Barrry's big speech out doors? 0% chance on rain in Charlotte tonight, but there's 100% chance of a lot of empty seats

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Many will say it better and in more details why, but the bottom line is:

Clinton killed tonight.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
I wait with baited breath.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kpo:

Quote:

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Per the FactCheck I quoted earlier.

"The keynote speaker, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, also said there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under Obama. The fact is the economy has regained only 4 million of the 4.3 million jobs lost since Obama took office."

So not so actual or valid, perhaps.

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Per another fact check: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/05/politics/fact-check-obama-jobs/index
.html

Quote:

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But while a total of 4.5 million jobs sounds great, it's not the whole picture.

Nonfarm private payrolls hit a post-recession low of 106.8 million that month, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The figure currently stands at 111.3 million as of July.

While that is indeed a gain of 4.5 million, it's only a net gain of 300,000 over the course of the Obama administration to date.

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When your fact check requires fact-checking itself, you know it's a bad one.

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Clinton praised the effectiveness of portions of Obama's health care legislation that won't even go into effect until 2014

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That's not what he said at all. Seems your fact check was more misleading than the part of Clinton's speech it was criticising.

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Clinton said that “for the last two years, health care costs have been under 4 percent in both years for the first time in 50 years.” That’s true, as reported by the journal Health Affairs in January of this year. But Clinton went too far when he added: “So let me ask you something. Are we better off because President Obama fought for health care reform? You bet we are.”

Actually, the major provisions of the 2010 law — the individual mandate, federal subsidies to help Americans buy insurance, and big reductions in the growth of Medicare spending — haven’t yet taken effect. Experts mainly blame the lousy economy for the slowdown in health care spending. As a report by economists and statisticians at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services reported last year, for example (as quoted in the Washington Post): “Job losses caused many people to lose employer-sponsored health insurance and, in some cases, to forgo health-care services they could not afford.”

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Originally posted by Niki2:
In other words, the "fact check" admits the number is true, it just goes on to explain why it's not the improvement touted by expressing it.

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If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know what Clinton actually said about the health-care legislation.

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Clinton said that “for the last two years, health care costs have been under 4 percent in both years for the first time in 50 years.” That’s true, as reported by the journal Health Affairs in January of this year. But Clinton went too far when he added: “So let me ask you something. Are we better off because President Obama fought for health care reform? You bet we are.”

Actually, the major provisions of the 2010 law — the individual mandate, federal subsidies to help Americans buy insurance, and big reductions in the growth of Medicare spending — haven’t yet taken effect. Experts mainly blame the lousy economy for the slowdown in health care spending. As a report by economists and statisticians at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services reported last year, for example (as quoted in the Washington Post): “Job losses caused many people to lose employer-sponsored health insurance and, in some cases, to forgo health-care services they could not afford.”

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CHARLOTTE, N.C. — In a rousing double-header, Democratic delegates heard Barack Obama and Joe Biden both accept renomination on their convention’s final night. And we heard some facts being spun.
¦President Obama boasted that his plan would cut the deficit by $4 trillion over 10 years, citing “independent experts.” But one such analyst called a key element of the plan a “gimmick.”
¦Vice President Biden quoted GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney as saying “it’s not worth moving heaven and earth” to catch Osama bin Laden. Actually, Romney said he’d target more than just “one person.”
¦The president said U.S. automakers are “back on top of the world.” Nope. GM has slipped back to No. 2 and is headed for third place in global sales this year, behind Toyota and Volkswagen.
¦Biden said “the experts” concluded Romney’s corporate tax plan would create 800,000 jobs in other countries. One expert said that. She also said the number depends on the details, and foreign jobs could grow without costing U.S. jobs.
¦Obama quoted Romney as saying it was “tragic” to “end the war in Iraq.” What Romney was criticizing was the pace of Obama’s troop withdrawal, not ending a war.
¦Biden claimed Romney “believes it’s OK to raise taxes on middle classes by $2,000.” Romney actually promises to lower middle-class taxes.
¦Biden said Romney and running mate Paul Ryan “are not for preserving Medicare at all.” Actually, the plan they endorse would offer traditional Medicare as one option among many.
¦Obama said his tax plan would restore “the same rate we had when Bill Clinton was president” for upper-income taxpayers. Not quite. New taxes to finance the health care law also kick in next year, further burdening those same taxpayers.

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“And on [Mitt Romney’s] tax returns, he’s hiding. You know, you have to wonder just what is so embarrassing that he’s going to such great lengths to bury the truth. But whatever he’s doing to avoid taxes, can it possibly be worse than the Ryan-Romney tax plan that would have sliced Mitt’s total tax rate to less than 1 percent?”

— Former Ohio governor Ted Strickland during speech at Democratic convention, Sept. 4, 2012


Strickland here is referring to GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s Swiss bank accounts and investments in the Cayman Islands. The former Ohio governor implied with certainty that Romney avoided taxes with those financial arrangements.

Rep. James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.) alluded to this issue, as well, in his prepared remarks for the convention, but he worded his statement carefully by avoiding assumptions. “Did [Romney] take unusual steps to avoid paying his fair share?” he asked. “Who knows? He refuses to release enough of his tax returns to give a clear picture of his finances.”

We examined the notion that Romney avoided taxes in a previous column. Based on discussions with tax experts, we determined that it is likely but not altogether certain that Romney used offshore investments to shield his individual retirement account from the Unintended Business Income Tax. The reason for doubt: There are reasons for investing in the Caymans besides avoiding taxes — like getting in on the biggest investment game around.

Strickland cannot say with certainty that Romney has reduced his tax burden with special financial arrangements — “whatever he’s doing to avoid taxes.” He earns three Pinocchios.

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As for the issue of whether the supposed “Ryan-Romney tax plan” would reduce Romney’s taxes to 1 percent, this claim seems to be based on articles in the Atlantic and Roll Call that analyzed the effect of GOP vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan’s 2010 “Roadmap for America’s Future.” That proposal, which never made it out of committee, would have eliminated taxes on interest, dividends and long-term capital gains, on top of doing away with the Alternative Minimum Tax.

Romney derives the majority of his income from interest, dividends and long-term capital gains, so there’s no question that the Ryan plan would have significantly reduced his rate, from the 13.9 percent that he paid on $21.7 million worth of income in 2010, according to the single tax return he has made public so far.

The Atlantic calculated that Romney’s rate would have dropped to 0.82 percent under Ryan’s plan. Roll Call came up with a figure of “about 1 percent” in a separate article.

It’s worth noting that Romney criticized a Ryan-plan-like proposal from Newt Gingrich during a January GOP primary debate. “Under that plan, I’d have paid no taxes in the last two years,” Romney said.

The problem for Strickland is that Romney has not endorsed the Ryan plan. In fact, the GOP presidential nominee has a proposal of his own that includes maintaining current tax rates on interest, dividends and capital gains for anyone making more than $200,000 per year. This would not have reduced Romney’s 2010 taxes to the 1 percent range.

The fact of the matter is that the “Romney-Ryan tax plan” that Strickland referred to does not exist. The running mates have pitched separate proposals, and it’s likely that Ryan would defer to Romney on this issue if the former Massachusetts governor becomes president.

Strickland earns Three Pinocchios for pinning Ryan’s tax plan on Romney when the two candidates have made very different proposals.

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“When too many of our elderly found their lives darkened by unaffordable and inaccessible health care and assistance, Lyndon Johnson and a Democratic Congress lit the twin candles of Medicare and Medicaid while Republicans stood on the sidelines and cursed the darkness.”

— From prepared remarks by Rep. James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.) for the Democratic convention, Sept. 4, 2012


Congressman Clyburn didn’t actually deliver these remarks because of a scheduling change at the convention. But the Democratic National Committee released his prepared comments, so we’ll check them anyway.

Clyburn’s speech started with a quote from former president John F. Kennedy, who said during the 1960 Democratic convention: “We are not here to curse the darkness; we are here to light a candle.” He then played off that line, saying the fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans is that the former party has done all the candle lighting while the latter has just cursed the darkness.

In our roundup of Tuesday’s convention speeches, we covered a similar claim from the DNC Web site, which says, “For more than 200 years, our party has led the fight for civil rights, health care, Social Security, workers’ rights, and women’s rights.”

We noted that 80 percent of the Senate “no” votes against the 1964 Civil Rights Act came from Democrats and that Republican votes were critical in winning passage of the bill. We also pointed out that a book distributed by Democrats at the 1992 convention acknowledged how their party “played both sides of the slavery issue” and “reached out a welcoming hand to returning Confederates, not to blacks” after the Civil War.

As for Clyburn, his prepared remarks gave Democrats essentially all the credit for federal entitlement programs, saying Republicans “stood on the sidelines ” while Democrats lighted the candles of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Clyburn is ignoring the facts here. Social Security came out of the congressional Committee on Economic Security in 1935, and Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt proposed the program as part of the Financial Security Act that same year. The bill passed in the U.S. House and Senate with 20 Republicans and 16 Democrats voting “no.” Ninety-seven Republicans voted in favor of the measure — there were relatively few GOP lawmakers in Congress at that point.

As for Medicare and Medicaid, the programs came as a package deal signed in 1965 by Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson. But again, the legislation had broad bipartisan support. It passed both chambers of Congress with 83 Republicans and 294 Democrats voting in favor of the bill. Eighty-five Republicans and 55 Democrats voted “no,” so dozens of members of both parties opposed the programs.

Why does it appear the votes were much more bipartisan in the past? For one, voting broke more along regional lines rather than party lines, with southern Democrats in opposition and northern Republicans in support of such federal expansion of benefits. Many of those southern Democrats have since become Republicans, while the Northeast especially has turned largely Democrat.

We should point out that Republican President Richard Nixon lobbied unsuccessfully in 1974 for a health plan that would have included a mandate for employers to provide coverage and an optional health plan from the federal government. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, a Democrat, opposed that idea, saying it did not go far enough.

And let’s not forget that Republican President George W. Bush approved a prescription-drug benefit for seniors as part of the Medicare Modernization Act that he signed in 2003. The bill passed in the House by a vote of 220 to 215, with 189 out of 205 Democrats voting “no.” It passed in the Senate on a vote of 53 to 44, with 35 out of 46 Democrats voting against the measure.

Democrats did not oppose the prescription-drug benefit in and of itself, but instead wanted more money dedicated to it. They also feared that the bill would undermine Medicare as it existed, particularly because of a provision that promised subsidies for private plans to compete with the fee-for-service Medicare program.

(The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services has provided a list of the milestones and changes for the two entitlement programs.)

Clyburn earns Four Pinocchios for his fantasy about Democrats deserving all the credit for federal entitlement programs and for suggesting that Republicans alone have opposed those plans.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Sp hey there Geezer, care to critique Raul Ryan's speech and its whoppers, just to, yanno, demonstrate how FAIR you are?

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But both these articles, although they differ slightly in figures (which could be due to different sources), still note that the "4.5 million new jobs during the Obama administration" claim is pretty bogus since it doesn't mention the 4 million or so jobs lost during the Obama administration.

So I'm not sure exactly what your point is

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Clinton praised the effectiveness of portions of Obama's health care legislation that won't even go into effect until 2014

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I'd just like to see the folks here who pointed out his whoppers also admit that the folks at the DNC are coming out with some pretty good fibs of their own

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Former President Bill Clinton’s stem-winding nomination speech was a fact-checker’s nightmare: lots of effort required to run down his many statistics and factual claims, producing little for us to write about.

Republicans will find plenty of Clinton’s scorching opinions objectionable. But with few exceptions, we found his stats checked out.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Now whether it's reasonable for the Obama admin to not factor in the job losses at their worst at the beginning of his term - that's another question. I would say that since he shouldn't be blamed for inheriting an economy that was haemorrhaging jobs, it's reasonable to measure his jobs record from some point after he took office. It just so happens that the democrats 'flattering' way of looking at the jobs figures, is also quite a fair one. But I don't expect you to go against your holy fact checks.

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Let's try a more rigorous critique of what Clinton said, using all the information:

"Clinton credited Obamacare for the slowdown in healthcare spending even though the major parts of the law haven't gone into effect yet, and experts mainly accredit the slowdown to the lousy economy.."

You see that if you take the underlined words into calculation there IS room for a case to be made that Obamacare has lowered healthcare spending. So in conclusion:

"Clinton's statement is misleading, since it leaves out the main accepted cause for the drop in spending, and it relies on an optimistic (maybe, I'm no expert) interpretation that the few active Obamacare provisions have already had a cost-saving effect."

There, that's a watertight criticism of what Clinton said - none of this saying things that he didn't say.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Sure. Plenty of cherry-picked, misleading, grossly unfair or grossly flattering statements.

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Former President Bill Clinton’s stem-winding nomination speech was a fact-checker’s nightmare: lots of effort required to run down his many statistics and factual claims, producing little for us to write about.

Republicans will find plenty of Clinton’s scorching opinions objectionable. But with few exceptions, we found his stats checked out.

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I'll take their word for it, since I figure they're probably a bit less partisan than you are.

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And this is different from "Clinton praised the effectiveness of portions of Obama's health care legislation that won't even go into effect until 2014." in what way, exactly?

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No matter how you slice it, Clinton was, to be kind, allocating results to Obama's health care reforms that were not the result of Obama's health care reforms. You can split hairs about what the meaning of "is" is all you like, but Clinton's statement was still untrue.

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Plenty of questions about Obama's and Biden's speech are posted above, but you seem to skip right over them.

Here they are again. http://factcheck.org/2012/09/factchecking-obama-and-biden/

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
I wait with baited breath.

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Well, if you'd quit eating worms maybe you wouldn't have that problem.

It's "bated breath".

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And why should I join the chorus pointing out Ryan's lies? Did I ever say he wasn't lying? Did I ever try and defend his every word like the Liberals here do for the Democrats?

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by kpo:
Sure. Plenty of cherry-picked, misleading, grossly unfair or grossly flattering statements.

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And speaking of cherry-picked.

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Former President Bill Clinton’s stem-winding nomination speech was a fact-checker’s nightmare: lots of effort required to run down his many statistics and factual claims, producing little for us to write about.

Republicans will find plenty of Clinton’s scorching opinions objectionable. But with few exceptions, we found his stats checked out.

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How is it cherry picking.... when even your own link says his info was accurate?


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Let's imagine if healthcare costs had coincidentally shot up in the past two years, for reasons completely unrelated to Obamacare. Do you dispute that Republicans would be ALL OVER that coincidence, and calling it a damning indictment of Obamacare?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Why? YOU are the one who claims to be non-partisan, a claim none of us have made for ourselves. And despite our partisanship we have all criticiszed Obama and the democrats. But I have yet to see you specifically criticize ANY republican, no matter how egregious their faults.

Put up or shut up.

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Originally posted by kpo:
We agree more than we disagree. This was the standout dishonest part of Clinton's speech for me. But that 'standout dishonesty' would be par for the course for Republicans. Let's imagine if healthcare costs had coincidentally shot up in the past two years, for reasons completely unrelated to Obamacare. Do you dispute that Republicans would be ALL over that coincidence, and calling it a damning indictment of Obamacare?

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I just consider it sad that apparently one of the criteria folks here use for choosing to support the Democrats is that they believe that the Democrats lie to them a little less.

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They are all POLITICIANS.

They all LIE.

It's WHAT THEY DO.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Well, aside from criticizing their stances on gay rights, abortion, sex education, same-sex marriage, taxes, and separation of church and state - Oh, and noting that their stand on voter ID has less to do with voter fraud and more to do with inflaming their base..."

You have CLAIMED you maintain these positions (except voter ID which you supported, making you for it before you were against it). Yet I have NEVER seen you post any objection to any bill being voted on by republicans, never seen you criticize any specific republican for any stance or statement. You CLAIM these positions, yet you never actually TAKE them.

I bet you can't do it. I bet you can't say one specific negative thing with a particular name and a particular incident attached.

Prove me wrong.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Ok one more question Geezer:

Did you get more angry at Clinton's speech, from what you saw/heard about it, than you did at Ryan's speech? If so, why?

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Wonder why folks compare Clinton and Ryan, rather than Biden and Ryan

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Not sure why I'd get angry, since I expect political speeches to have spin galore.

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I figure that Democrats will find the untruths in Clinton's and Biden's speeches to be mild compared to those in Ryan's. I also figure that the Republicans find the fibs in Ryan's speech to be nothing compared to the ones in Clinton's and Biden's.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by whozit:

FYI, they're not going to have Barrry's big speech out doors? 0% chance on rain in Charlotte tonight, but there's 100% chance of a lot of empty seats

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And just to point out how full of shit zit and his twin rappy are, in regards to the "0% chance of rain" they're both repeating:

It's raining in Charolette RIGHT FUCKING NOW you moron. And the weather forecast says thunderstorms tonight.

http://www.weather.com/weather/right-now/35.227087,-80.843127?cm_ven=G
ooglemaps&cm_cat=googleOneBox&cm_pla=application-us&cm_ite=today

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
I wait with baited breath.

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Well, if you'd quit eating worms maybe you wouldn't have that problem.

It's "bated breath".

And why should I join the chorus pointing out Ryan's lies? Did I ever say he wasn't lying? Did I ever try and defend his every word like the Liberals here do for the Democrats?

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