REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Here we go again (Mandating the Pledge)

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:03
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Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:47 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Annnnd, here we go again...

Michigan House passes Pledge of Allegiance bill; Saline schools to reconsider local policy - again
http://www.annarbor.com/news/michigan-house-passes-pledge-of-allegianc
e-bill-saline-schools-to-reconsider-local-policy-again
/
Quote:

Committee members agreed on changing the word “may” in the current policy to “shall.” The action, if approved by the full board, would require classrooms in Saline to participate in “patriotic exercises,” including the Pledge of Allegiance, at the start of each day — “or at another time designated by the building principal.”

...

The House version still would prohibit schools from “compelling” a student to recite the pledge. The House entertained an amendment to the bill that would have required districts to notify parents and children annually of their right to object to saying the Pledge of Allegiance in class. That amendment failed by a voice vote, however, according to MichiganVotes.org.



Time and time again it's been proven Unconstitutional to order this, and time and time again they try to sneak bullshit like this through when nobody is paying attention - only, some of us are ALWAYS paying attention.

By changing it from a voluntary option into a mandatory decree, this infringes on the rights of the school staff who may or may not believe in such forced displays of phony patriotism and obvious social conditioning, and who may or may not have religious beliefs compatible with it.

While my focus is generally on kids brutalized by what we call an education system, it's worth noting just how insulting and offensive the notion of forcing a teacher who is atheist, who finds such forced-false "patriotism" repellent and disturbing, to issue such a thing under threat of legal punishment for refusal to do so.
This is an explicit violation of the First Amendment, blatantly so.

There is also that despite the attempt to dodge the all but inevitable lawsuit by SAYING there is no compulsion, by legally mandating this it presents not only the notion that it is condoned and supported by the schools administration and directly invites direct or indirect compulsion and/or retaliation against students who refuse, as well as indirectly encouraging such amongst the students themselves - especially as this act engages in deceit-by-omission, since the students are not to be informed, and are unlikely to BE informed, of any right to refuse.

No matter the letter of the law, if at ANY time, the State is seen to condone such a thing, it WILL inevitably lead to abuses, here is a particularly outrageous one.
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/miss._judge_sends_lawyer_to_jai
l_for_refusing_to_recite_the_pledge
/
And remember those students sent to jail in Mississippi over stupid, petty things ?
Well at least one of them was charged with "disorderly conduct" for refusing the pledge.

This is, for the record, the fifth time the Michigan Legislature has engaged in conduct in regards to this which is tantamount to inciting, encouraging, or abetting violation of the First Amendment by trying to mandate support of religion.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28qj25kb55pyas4g45423cycyq%29%29/mi
leg.aspx?page=ExecuteSearch&legislativesession=2003-2004&category=Pledge%20of%20Allegiance


On a personal level this is likely to cause more strife for Kira and her family, as she's already in trouble for punching her gym teacher in the stomach after he explicitly instructed the class to bully one of the less athletically inclined students, and she's like as not to throw a hissy about this and get in even more trouble, curse it all.

-Frem
http://www.proyouthpages.com/pledge.html

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 8:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Say it as it was originally written:


"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:23 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Say it as it was originally written:


"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."



Don't worry, soon they won't have to say it....very soon.

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:36 AM

BYTEMITE


It also violates freedom of religion. Jehovas witnesses, for example, believe they owe no loyalty and will swear no oath to anyone but their christian god.

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:25 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I get a bad gut reaction to mandatory pledges.

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:14 PM

BYTEMITE


Agreed.

That's putting the nationalism in national-socialism.

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Say it as it was originally written:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


I find that almost as offensive though, since that "indivisible" part stands in direct contradiction to the idea of a voluntary union, which it was intended to be, right up till the Fedgov showed its true colors in 1861 and just how "voluntary" it really was - proving the establishing documents that founded this country to be lies.

Ergo "indivisible" is as much an insult, as much an outrage as "under god", just in a different way.

Topping either one is the laughable notion of "liberty and justice for all" when we have extraordinary rendition, gitmo, preventive detainment - oh, and minors (you know, the ones forced to say the pledge under threat) have less rights and protection than livestock in our society and legal system.

Forcing someone to pretend a thing does not make it true - this also hooks up with how when a child tells a psychologist the truth about how they see the world its regarded as a mental illness and treated so, instead of daring to admit that the child (who has not conditioned themselves yet to the lies and rationalizations we use to hide it, to stomach it) is correct in their assessment.

I told some local kids about Bellamy, and if they were gonna force them to cry Bellamys pledge, maybe they ought to respond with Bellamys salute too, we'll see how well THAT goes over, ehe ?

-Frem

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Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:03 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That's what legislators are best at, isn't it? We certainly see enough of it in Congress...bills to ban burning of the flag, bills to make English the national language, bills to "put" God in here or there, and on and on and on. It's stuff politicians know nobody will dare vote against, and they don't want to do any REAL work, so they busy themselves with this kind of shit...and renaming post offices...and, and, and...


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