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Originally posted by kpo:
We're always hearing about how Obama struggles with this particular demographic, but see the graph in this article, it turns out that the white working class in most of the country likes Obama just fine:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by kpo:
We're always hearing about how Obama struggles with this particular demographic, but see the graph in this article, it turns out that the white working class in most of the country likes Obama just fine:

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But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.

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And if the whole country was white, Romney would be doing fine.

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Originally posted by kpo:
You're funny Geezer - you're saying that from looking at the first 3 graphs the white working class doesn't 'like Obama just fine'? Even though he's liked roughly as well as Romney, if you add up the %s?

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Originally posted by kpo:
I think you've completely missed the point of the article. Or you're just playing dumb. The title of the article, which you call 'spun' begins: 'In Most of the Country...'

What do you think the article means by that?

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I believe I get the point of the article, that there are a fair number of white working class people in the country who like Obama.

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John Sides points out an important result from a recent survey of the white working class: Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem.

The chart on the right tells the story...

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.

Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama, and even vote third party (green, anyone?). Despite being repeatedly characterized as thinking of him as our 'messiah' by the intellectual brilliance that is little rappy (and I'm being ironic here) I have yet to find evidence that any of us do that.

But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.

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But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Absolutely.

Also worth noting that they become too "busy" to post here every time their boys screw up really good. Funny, that.

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Originally posted by kpo:

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I believe I get the point of the article, that there are a fair number of white working class people in the country who like Obama.

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No, that's not it. It's that the national statistics are skewed by the polls from the South, and if you discount them Obama is pretty much tied with Romney (who's actually white). Hence 'doing just fine' in most of the country.

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This is all summed up at the beginning of the article, it surprises me that you could have missed it:

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John Sides points out an important result from a recent survey of the white working class: Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem.

The chart on the right tells the story...

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Yet again you've rushed to dismiss something from a liberal source as 'spun' for no good reason. And tomorrow you'll be lecturing other people about being biased...

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.

Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama, and even vote third party (green, anyone?). Despite being repeatedly characterized as thinking of him as our 'messiah' by the intellectual brilliance that is little rappy (and I'm being ironic here) I have yet to find evidence that any of us do that.

But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Also note that although you mention that "Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama...", I don't see many threads originated by you "liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people" that actually do that. Sometimes when someone else mentions, say, drone strikes, a few folks will agree that, yes, that's kind'a bad, but seldom see you, for example, call out Obama on something. And certainly nothing like the criticism heaped on Romney.

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Have you read none of the criticism we've directed at Obama?

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The article refers specifically to "white working people".

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Originally posted by kpo:
No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.

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Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?

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Originally posted by kpo:

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Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?

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No, hence the article saying he has 'a huge Southern problem'. But since the Southern poll is so glaringly different to the rest of the country one might legitimately ask if that's down to anything Obama has done, or whether it may simply be a reflection of certain biases and prejudices in that particular part of the country.

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by kpo:
No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.

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Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?

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Originally posted by kpo:

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The article refers specifically to "white working people".

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No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.

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The problem with this is that the election is held in the entire country, not just the West, North-east, and Mid-west.

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While it's true he does not have the overwhelming lead he has in the South, it appears to be in the 4% to 5% range.

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So even in the "most of the country" that excludes the South, Obama may be "doing just fine" with the White working class, but Romney is still doing better.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Wait - are you suggesting that you shouldn't just write off certain groups of the population? Say, perhaps, some 47% of the people?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?

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This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.

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Originally posted by Niki2:

Yes, Kiki, and well said. As I've said numerous times, I used to like and respect Geezer and have been confused as to why he's changed into a purely partisan, angry, unpleasant hack. So there's definitely been change...enough so that it's made me wonder if Geezer's been someone's sickpuppy all along, reeling us in by being nice, then turning around. Probably not, but it HAS left me puzzled, the change I've seen.

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As to the rest of the argument, the title of the article in question is "In Most of the Country, the White Working Class Likes President Obama Just Fine" and it starts right out saying "Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem." The point of the article is that, while Obama trails Romney in all areas, he doesn't do so by that MUCH, except in the South. Not sure why the righties can't comprehend that simple fact...or is it that they just have to keep harping on the fact that Obama trails Romney nationwide AMONG WHITE WORKING CLASS VOTERS. Nobody has argued that, but the point of the article seems to have been totally lost among some.

And of course this is just white working class voters. If you count all the various other sections of the electorate, it's a whole different story. According to recent polls (for whatever they're worth), Obama leads Romney not just nationally, but among women, Blacks, Latinos and the young--and in almost all swing states. Just for some perspective, if we want to talk about something which DOESN'T have to do with the article in question (which some seem to want to).

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?

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This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.

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That's what I thought it was about, but *somebody* keeps trying to bring up that Romney's doing just fine...

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Originally posted by Geezer:

But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.

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Do try to keep up.

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?

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This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.

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That's what I thought it was about, but *somebody* keeps trying to bring up that Romney's doing just fine...

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Originally posted by Geezer:

But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.

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Do try to keep up.

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And you have never brought up Romney or Bush or Ryan or Palin et al in a thread about Obama? Is this the case you are presently making or is this your usual do as I say not as I do schtick?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So if someone else brings up Romney in the thread, I'm not allowed to respond directly to their point?

You Republicans are a testy bunch. That partially explains why you call yourselves "teabaggers"... ;)

Did I say I had a problem with Geezer bringing up Romney's standing in the polls? No; you brought that up.

Again, do try to keep up.

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So if someone else brings up Romney in the thread, I'm not allowed to respond directly to their point?

You Republicans are a testy bunch. That partially explains why you call yourselves "teabaggers"... ;)

Did I say I had a problem with Geezer bringing up Romney's standing in the polls? No; you brought that up.

Again, do try to keep up.

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It is too hard to try keeping up when you continually change the course.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
BigDamnTroll is what he is. Pretty obvious at this point. As I said before,it's either deliberate, or he's been hit by a brick.

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