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Originally posted by AURaptor:
@ nickerson - yeah, the source says 'protests', because that's the narrative which was first given out as to what took place.

It wasn't a " protest ", but in fact a full blown attacks by armed militants.

Once again, to focus on the facts. There never was a protest which got out of hand, and then turned violent. The WH KNEW this, with in hours, and yet, for over a week, trotted out this false story of angry Libyans, upset over a YouTube video, protesting and then then things getting out of hand, turning violent, and "some how " an ambassador and 3 other Americans end up dead.

On Sept. 11th.

The question is - WHY ?

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Ahhh, here it comes again; that adored Republican claim that Obama had a majority and why didn't he do anything.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
See you have not posted anything that shows the WH knew that quickly there was no protests. The emails do not state this. They say there was an attack, but give no indication of how that attack started. Second the WH did not trot out any story. There relayed what the intelligence community was giving them as a best guess early on.

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The State Department, monitoring the phone calls from the consulate’s operations center, knew virtually from the first minutes, as Ubben, Stevens, and Smith were hiding, that the attack on the consulate was no protest gone astray. And when a major CIA outpost nearby came under attack hours later, there was little doubt about that being an operation by well-trained terrorists.

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In the White House, President Obama was meeting with National Security Adviser Thomas Donilon, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, and Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, to review the options, but the news they were getting from the fledgling government in Libya was crazily contradictory. The only thing for sure was that the Americans in the consulate were facing a concerted terrorist assault, and the local forces hadn’t been able to make a difference.

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Originally posted by Geezer:


[...]why Obama couldn't do the civil liberties-related things he promised.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Ahhh, here it comes again; that adored Republican claim that Obama had a majority and why didn't he do anything.

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And here's Niki trotting out the same excuses for why Obama couldn't do the civil liberties-related things he promised.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So where exactly did I agree it was "just hazing"?

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You profess shock ("How can this be?") that there is alleged torture because you've been assured that it's "just hazing". If you didn't believe that it was "just hazing", why would you be shocked?

Then again, you might be lying.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And once again Geezer has failed to answer either Kwicko's post, or mine. I think that's new tactic. Instead of scurrying away in shame only to reappear later with the same old crap, he just completely ignores the things he has no response to.

This is the Geezer who said he wanted to engage in good internet debate. Yanno', discussing the points, admitting his errors and NOT BRINGING THEM UP AGAIN when they've already been disproved, and so on.

Yep, good ole little rapp... I mean Geezer, true to his word.

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Funny thing is, "we" are ALSO the men building rifles. By that logic, that makes 9-11 justifiable.

There are only two things I've learned from all of these attempts to "contextualize" civilian deaths:

(1) If you have to kill people and brutalize others to spread "your" ideas... whether they be the jihad or democracy or capitalism or communism... then you have truly lost in the marketplace of ideas. And...

(2) There is only one reason to kill, and that is to defend the life of another. Because if the "other side" resorts to brutalizing populations, you can step in to defend the victims. DEFEND them, not destroy them in order to defend them.

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I'd add a corollary that if the people you're trying to defend start getting annoyed enough at you that you have to shoot them too to defend yourself, you have failed to accomplish your goals in a most remarkable fashion.

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Without new legislation, the provisions would expire on Feb. 28. House Republicans pressed the short-term extension so the Judiciary Committee, which is now under Republican control, could hold hearings on them.

During the debate on Monday, most Republicans argued in favor of the bill, while many Democrats criticized it. Still, the debate did not break down entirely along partisan lines.

Sixty-five Democrats voted for it, including Representative C. A. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland, the ranking Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, who argued that he thought it would be better to go even further and extend the provisions through 2013 — as the Obama administration wants to do.

And 27 Republicans voted against it, including Representative Dana Rohrabacher, Republican of California, who said the American people had “a legitimate fear of out-of-control prosecutors and out-of-control spy networks.”

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Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And once again Geezer has failed to answer either Kwicko's post, or mine. I think that's new tactic. Instead of scurrying away in shame only to reappear later with the same old crap, he just completely ignores the things he has no response to.

This is the Geezer who said he wanted to engage in good internet debate. Yanno', discussing the points, admitting his errors and NOT BRINGING THEM UP AGAIN when they've already been disproved, and so on.

Yep, good ole little rapp... I mean Geezer, true to his word.

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Upset because the other kids don't want to play the game you want to play? Poor little Rue... I mean Kiki.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well stated Sig. I'd add a corollary that if the people you're trying to defend start getting annoyed enough at you that you have to shoot them too to defend yourself, you have failed to accomplish your goals in a most remarkable fashion.

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