REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Fauxcahontas Warren shows she's not ready for prime time.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, November 11, 2012 03:37
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3408
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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



“I’m glad” was all she said when asked to expound on the support she ­received from women voters and on the influx of women elected Tuesday. Asked to elaborate, she refused, saying: “I’m glad that women turned out to vote for me. I’m delighted.”

Asked a third time, Warren turned to Governor Deval Patrick, who was standing at her side at the State House press conference. “You want to try this?” she said.


After being asked her first question — how she’d protect defense spending — Warren was silent as she turned to Patrick.

“Defense spending is you,” Patrick prodded Warren.

“Oh, that’s mine,” Warren replied.

After Warren fielded the question, Patrick stepped in to answer the follow-up.

“Let me start,” said Patrick, shielding Warren from having to answer.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/09/sen-elect-elizabeth-warren-makes
-her-debut-in-super-awkward-press-conference
/




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You said that about Obama, too. And look, he got re-elected.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You said that about Obama, too. And look, he got re-elected.



Doesn't make me any less right.

Or her any more competent.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, seriously...I mean you're TAKING him seriously? He dug and dug, and ah-HAH! found something negative to put up. In spite of it being from HotAir (seriously??) and ACTUALLY starting out
Quote:

While we’re evaluating and recriminating, parsing the failures of our own side, perhaps this can offer a small bit of solace— a quantum, even. On the heels of her victory over Sen. Scott Brown Tuesday, Sen.-elect Elizabeth Warren, Ivy League stand-out and star of the liberal elite who may very well be dictating the rules of the nation’s entire banking system, held her first press conference.

"Star of the liberal elite"??? Where'd they come up with that one? Her first news conference? Oh, wow, let's shoot her while we're at it!

Gimme a break...

Did anyone notice the mysoginy of the graphic? Does anyone have any further questions about Rap's mentality? Remember what SANK her opponent, his smart-assery about her not having "native blood" because you could SEE she didn't have any Indigenous blood? Doesn't all that speak for itself, especially when compared against a TRULY pathetic attempt to slur her?

Nothing like hoisting yourself on your own petard...!

He hasn't a CLUE as to her competence or lack thereof, he's just desperate, poor little Repudlican...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:40 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


By the way, considering how she's been treated, does anyone wonder that she's parsing her words very, very carefully? The woman has been through the gauntlet; let's see what she DOES before judging her.

Except for Rap and his buddies, of course. They've already got their "course" set, and it's a truly sad one.

I know, "Sandy" lost the election for Romney...
Rance Priebus should be fired, it's all his fault...
The election was rigged!...

Keep it up...we're enjoying it. Honest.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Again, painting me w/ a false light, to say there was any HINT of misogyny in that pic.

There was none. Absolutely none.

What we DO have here, Niki, is humor. Humor at the expense of a complete phony, in Lizzy Warren, who uses the plight of the native Americans as a shield for her, as well as a crutch, to claim to be THE FIRST woman with native American blood to hold such a lofty position in an Ivy League institution.

Horsefeathers! ( see what I did there ? )

She's a frelling CON ARTIST ! And a pathetic one at that, masquerading as something she isn't. Not unlike the miserable pieces of shit who claim they're dying of cancer, and rake in all sorts of donations, only to end up having never been diagnosed w/ cancer in the FIRST place. So, she's dirt from the very start. THEN, to make matters worse, she's a complete loon, and way out of her element here.

She's a scam. A con. A complete shill, and good for the folks who put her in office. I hope the suffer greatly for it.


And it was Chris Matthews who said he was GLAD Sandy caused so much destruction... yay!!! How many days is that w/ out power up there..11 and counting ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:45 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I'm a bit confused about the title "Fauxcahontas" and the image of an indian maiden offering butter.

What are these phrases and images meant to convey.

As for being glad, that sounds about right.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



look closely at the image, genius.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:59 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

look closely at the image, genius.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

I can see the image, and I can read the word 'Fauxcahontas.' But what are you trying to convey with these words and images?

What is your point?

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 9, 2012 3:21 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.




It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 3:28 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

That's a sad song.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 9, 2012 3:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



So's this... but it's got a happy ending.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 3:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Oh great... NOW that made me think of this -







I slay me!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 3:33 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

So what are you trying to say with that word and imagery?

What is your message, Mr. Raptor?

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 9, 2012 4:14 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

What is your message, Mr. Raptor?


The 'Left' sucks, what else?

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Friday, November 9, 2012 4:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

What is your message, Mr. Raptor?


The 'Left' sucks, what else?



Hello,

I wonder what it is about Land-o-lakes photoshop jobs and the word 'Fauxcahontas' that helps to convey that message?

I feel he is trying to say something about the person's ancestry, but it's not clear to me what that is, exactly.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

What is your message, Mr. Raptor?


The 'Left' sucks, what else?



Hello,

I wonder what it is about Land-o-lakes photoshop jobs and the word 'Fauxcahontas' that helps to convey that message?

I feel he is trying to say something about the person's ancestry, but it's not clear to me what that is, exactly.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz





Well, her opponent claimed that you can look at her and see clearly that she is not Native American, and then several members of his staff were doing their best "Indian war whoop" chants and "Tomahawk chop" moves, so I guess they're saying that the right still has nothing but disdain and hatred for anyone of Native American ancestry.

This is pretty much the same thing as trying to put down President Obama by putting on blackface and singing "Mammy"; it doesn't insult the person it's aimed at nearly as much as it tells us a great deal about the person hurling the insult.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

What is your message, Mr. Raptor?


The 'Left' sucks, what else?



Hello,

I wonder what it is about Land-o-lakes photoshop jobs and the word 'Fauxcahontas' that helps to convey that message?

I feel he is trying to say something about the person's ancestry, but it's not clear to me what that is, exactly.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz





Well, her opponent claimed that you can look at her and see clearly that she is not Native American, and then several members of his staff were doing their best "Indian war whoop" chants and "Tomahawk chop" moves, so I guess they're saying that the right still has nothing but disdain and hatred for anyone of Native American ancestry.

This is pretty much the same thing as trying to put down President Obama by putting on blackface and singing "Mammy"; it doesn't insult the person it's aimed at nearly as much as it tells us a great deal about the person hurling the insult.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."



Hello,

I see. So Mr. Raptor is cleverly informing us about his own biases and shortcomings.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:08 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello,

I'm a bit confused about the title "Fauxcahontas" and the image of an indian maiden offering butter.

What are these phrases and images meant to convey.

As for being glad, that sounds about right.

--Anthony



Anthony, it's meant to convey the same thing as this...



[sarcasm]Obviously a light-hearted, non-insulting, attempt at good-spirited humor at the expense of an honored political opponent. [/sarcasm]

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:20 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Anthony, it's meant to convey the same thing as this...


Hello,

I never quite understood the binders issue, other than criticising a speaker's odd grammatical choices and making fun of them.

But do you think critiquing the words of an opponent 'Binders full of women' is akin to performing caricatures of Native Americans in dance, imagery, and headlines of right-wing articles?

I'm curious as to how you see it.

--Anthony

ETA:

Let us put aside the criticism of a despised political figure so I can illustrate the bias that bothers me.

A couple of headlines sporting 'Fauxcahontas':

"Fauxcahontas Warren's Family Lore Is In Heap Big Trouble"

"Fauxcahontas no make big talk at press conference"


Do you see what's bothering me now? And that it has little to do with Dem vs Rep politics?

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony, you are right on the money. I love how you kept asking, not making assumptions as I did (tho' I believe my assumptions were totally correct), and asking Rap to explain himself and his motivations.

You notice he has never answered...he's snarked at me, and claimed there's "no mysoginy" in either the title or the graphic, but never clearly answered your question.

Ergo, I repeat, because I believe this both answers your question and explains the issue:
Quote:

Did anyone notice the mysoginy of the graphic? Remember what SANK her opponent, his smart-assery about her not having "native blood" because you could "SEE" she didn't have any Indigenous blood? Doesn't all that speak for itself, especially when compared against a TRULY pathetic attempt to slur her?

As I see it, Rap has picked up on the Native American stuff and is putting it forth yet once again. The parody--because that's what it is--is pretty obviously a dig at her expense, just as was the initial statement that "you can SEE she's not Native American", as well as the "war whoops" and "chops". All of it has the same intent, and that intent is matched by both the title and the parody Rap put up, and also the titles you showed (which I hadn't seen until now and which disgust me).

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


ETA: I didn't read what Rap's response was past his attempt to pass it off as "humor". Where Warren someone on the right, and someone on the left made negative insinuations about them, he'd not see it as "humor". No doubt he saw all the parodies of Obama, "Obama Waffles", the photo passed around of him as an African tribal figure, etc., as "humor" as well.

It does not fly, but he'll never admit it. Simple as that.

Unfortunately, Romney has no ancestral background that people make fun of, but I'll look around for an example.

How about


Or maybe


Now, most likely he'll say those are just funny NOW, because of the situation, but if we'd put them up all by themselves, I'm betting he wouldn't find them amusing, he'd find them as unfair attacks on Romney's religion.


Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:28 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Yes, that lamentable cartoon mocks his religion (via Underwear), undermining its other theme.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Anthony, it's meant to convey the same thing as this...



The "Sarah Palin is a C**T" t-shirt would be closer to an accurate comparison, or the "N**ger, please - it's the WHITE House!" shirts. The idea is to demean the main target (Warren, Palin, Obama) while also demeaning every person in an entire demographic (Native American, Female, Black).






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:20 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

Anthony, it's meant to convey the same thing as this...


Hello,

I never quite understood the binders issue, other than criticising a speaker's odd grammatical choices and making fun of them.

But do you think critiquing the words of an opponent 'Binders full of women' is akin to performing caricatures of Native Americans in dance, imagery, and headlines of right-wing articles?

I'm curious as to how you see it.



Don't get too cute, Anthony.

Both are criticisms of the opposition.
Both have little to do with actual issues.
Both are meant to insult.

I could point out that a larger percentage of such things on this forum originate from the liberal side (excluding PN, who is on his own different side), but I think that's self-evident.

ETA: i.e. see above.

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:28 AM

HKCAVALIER


I think we're getting to the point where emotional sensativity itself is being framed as a "left-wing agenda." So, racism is fine, a nonissue, until it's directed at a lefty, because only a pathetic leftist would give a crap about what women or Native Americans fucking "feel."

I'm sure AURaptor has never been hurt by any racism directed at him, so why should anyone else be bothered by it--unless it's a liberal trying to score political points!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 11:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Don't get too cute, Anthony.

Both are criticisms of the opposition.
Both have little to do with actual issues.
Both are meant to insult.

I could point out that a larger percentage of such things on this forum originate from the liberal side (excluding PN, who is on his own different side), but I think that's self-evident.

ETA: i.e. see above.



Hello,

Mike did a much better job of reaching my issue, i.e. denigrating an entire demographic in order to criticize an individual.

When I see it happen, I speak up.

So, do you want to source your claim that the liberal side does it more often, or do you want to join me in condemning it now and always?

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 11:54 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Both are criticisms of the opposition.
Both have little to do with actual issues.
Both are meant to insult.

I could point out that a larger percentage of such things on this forum originate from the liberal side ..."

If I have the time, I'll take you up on that. Who should I consider 'your side' in my tally?

You, rapster, bdn, wulf, hero, 6ixstring, oppyh, cavetroll, and cts?

So, many people here both snark AND discuss. Some only snark. One or two nearly always just discuss. I think a snark/ discuss (or perhaps a snark/ total) ratio should capture the essential metric. I will also count things like strawman arguments and other rhetorical no-nos as snark, since they "have little to do with actual issues" and "are meant to insult".

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

'Snark' is too nebulous.

We should be counting gross denigrations of an entire demographic. Those are easy to identify.

We can begin counting from here forward. Pick a desired end-date. Like Christmas, or Easter. We can condemn them as they occur and add them to the tally.

This will have the positive effect of keeping everyone more civil, speaking out against wrongs, and proving the desired point.

Categories can be simple:

Denigrations by Conservatives
Denigrations by Liberals
Denigrations by Independents

Each person can define themselves if they haven't already. I consider myself an Independent, but I'm willing to be placed into a different category if others disagree strongly.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 3:58 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Mike did a much better job of reaching my issue, i.e. denigrating an entire demographic in order to criticize an individual.

When I see it happen, I speak up.

So, do you want to source your claim that the liberal side does it more often, or do you want to join me in condemning it now and always?



Oh, you mean like folks denigrating all Mormons, or people who participate in dressage, to attack Gov. Romney? Or classifying all non-Democrats as money-grubbing exploiters?

Yeah, I have a problem with that, but if I say anything here, it's just insults galore.

C'mon, Anthony. Just look at this forum and objectively decide who throws the most personal and demographic insults. If you're honest with yourself, you'll see who it is.

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 5:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Funny, I missed someone saying all non-democrats were money-grubbing exploiters...what thread was that in please? It wasn't in any of the ones calling all liberals/democrats all those awful names...you know, "evil" and stuff. THOSE are easy to find!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 5:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Just look at this forum and objectively decide who throws the most personal and demographic insults. If you're honest with yourself, you'll see who it is.




Well, we know Rappy's in at least the top two. That experiment's already been done and the results tabulated.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 5:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NIKI2:
Funny, I missed someone saying all non-democrats were money-grubbing exploiters...what thread was that in please? It wasn't in any of the ones calling all liberals/democrats all those awful names...you know, "evil" and stuff. THOSE are easy to find!




Ironically, Geezer's using that same tactic - denigrate one person or a small group by blaming the larger group they're a part of.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Don't get too cute, Anthony.

Both are criticisms of the opposition. (critiquing the words of an opponent v performing caricatures)
Both have little to do with actual issues.
Both are meant to insult.

I could point out that a larger percentage of such things on this forum originate from the liberal side (excluding PN, who is on his own different side), but I think that's self-evident."

From this I gather one should NOT critique anyone's words, even to poke fun at them if they are awkward or absurd, b/c critiquing what a person has actually expressed isn't fair. It is JUST AS BAD as slandering a demographic, usually with overly broad and even untrue generalizations.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Oh, you mean like folks denigrating all Mormons, or people who participate in dressage, to attack Gov. Romney? Or classifying all non-Democrats as money-grubbing exploiters?

Yeah, I have a problem with that, but if I say anything here, it's just insults galore.

C'mon, Anthony. Just look at this forum and objectively decide who throws the most personal and demographic insults. If you're honest with yourself, you'll see who it is."

And here he pretends the two are equivalent again - one which is personal dislike based on the actual experience of repeated interaction between individuals as equivalent to employing broad demeaning generalizations about whole groups and impersonally applying them to an individual.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to go with AnthonyT's suggestion of demographic insult as the most useful metric, since personal likes and dislikes based on experience are the exact opposite of impersonal demographic insult.

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Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with Kiki and Anthony. Personal slurs are personal slurs--nothing seems to get rid of them. But the kind of thing this thread represents is something else again. Calling it out won't change anything, but it's worth noting I suppose. Or not.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by NIKI2:
Funny, I missed someone saying all non-democrats were money-grubbing exploiters



So you apparently remember the ones denegrating Mormons and folks involved in dressage. Funny you skip right over those.

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Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Please stop putting words in my mouth. Did I skip right over those? I guess you weren't here when the dressage discussion came up, and it's not worth reminding you of my stance and posts on that matter. Given the truth of that discussion, it's actually funny as hell that you utilized it as a snark!

As to Mormonism, I WAS a Mormon, I saw the church from the inside. I don't like it, which is why I got out, but I don't recall too many here utilizing the religion to denegrate all Mormons...in fact I seem to recall more than one positive thing said about the religion. I certainly never made any "jokes" that I can recall about Romney which denegrated Mormonism as a religion, or all Mormons.

Your snark has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the fact that NOBODY here has ever said "all non-democrats were money-grubbing exploiters", which was my point. If someone did say that, please cite who, where and when; otherwise, all you are doing is snarking something which never happened and which, as far as I know, nobody here BELIEVES. There are "money-grubbing exloiters" on both sides, IN GENERAL they tend to be corporations and wealthy individuals on the right, but that certainly doesn't put "all non-democrats" in that class! In other words, what you stated is untrue...one might say a "lie", but I know what you're trying to say...which is also untrue.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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