Death from lack of abortion by Niki2

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Death from lack of abortion

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, November 17, 2012 04:35
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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:33 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

It seems to me, if the anti-abortionists on the right were allowed to go far enough, this sort of story could just as easily happen here:

Quote:
Ireland's strict anti-abortion laws are under fire after an Indian woman living there died after being refused an abortion last month.

Savita Halappanavar, 31, went into a hospital on October 21, complaining of back pain. She was 17 weeks pregnant at the time.

The doctors who examined her told her she was having a miscarriage but denied her an abortion even though she was in extreme pain, her husband has said. Halappanavar died at the hospital, leading lawmakers to call for an investigation into what role abortion laws may have played in her death.

"They knew they couldn't help the baby. Why did they not look at the bigger life?" her husband, Praveen Halappanavar, told the Irish Times.

Halappanavar was told that the miscarriage would be over in a matter of hours, said Kitty Holland, who reported the story for the Irish Times.

But the hours kept ticking and Halappanavar remained in terrible pain, so her husband asked doctors to expedite the miscarriage by carrying out an abortion.

Doctors at Galway University Hospital said that as long as the fetal heartbeat could be felt, the law prevented them from ending the pregnancy, Holland said. Halappanavar died of septicemia, or a blood infection, after three days in the hospital.

"Tuesday morning, came back and said, 'Sorry, can't help you. It's a Catholic country. Can't help you. It's a Catholic team.' So, Savita said that she was not a Catholic. She is Hindu, so why impose the law of the land on her?" her husband said.

The death led to protests, and top Irish lawmakers are asking whether the law needs to be changed.

In Ireland, abortion is legal if the mother's life is at risk, which is different from her health being at risk, Holland said.

The hospital expressed sympathy to Halappanavar's husband, but noted in a statement that "the facts of this tragic case have yet to be established."More at http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/14/world/europe/ireland-abortion-controvers
y/index.html?hpt=hp_t4]
Or this:
Quote:
The mother of a pregnant leukemia patient who died after her chemotherapy was delayed over anti- abortion laws is accusing doctors of not putting her daughter's health first.

The 16-year-old's plight attracted worldwide attention after she had to wait for chemotherapy because of an abortion ban in the Dominican Republic.

Doctors were hesitant to give her chemotherapy because such treatment could terminate the pregnancy -- a violation of the Dominican Constitution, which bans abortion. Some 20 days after she was admitted to the hospital, she finally started receiving treatment.

She died Friday, a hospital official said. The teen died from complications of the disease, said Dr. Antonio Cabrera, the legal representative for the hospital. The patient was 13 weeks pregnant.

Her body rejected a blood transfusion and did not respond to the chemotherapy, and her condition worsened overnight, Cabrera said.

She then suffered a miscarriage early Friday, followed by cardiac arrest, and doctors were unable to revive her.More at http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/18/world/americas/dominican-republic-aborti
on/index.html

Is this really the way we want to go? Don't kid yourself, the "life of the mother" exclusion would go the way of abortions themselves, if these people got their way--some have as much as SAID SO.

The first comment on the first story: "Veterinarians treat cattle better than those doctors did their patient." Which about says it, far as I'm concerned.

Sick bastards. Mostly male sick bastards.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:46 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Sick bastards. Mostly male sick bastards.

Hello,

To me, it is as simple as this: Does a person have the right to control their own body?

The answer is either Yes or No.

Those who answer No are in favor of wars on abortion, drugs, and lifestyles they disapprove of.

And in a true democracy, it can't happen unless women either actively help or fail to oppose it. The evil men can't do it if the women show up at the voting box in opposition.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:56 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Seriously? These seem like situations where the life of the mother is in trouble and I've never known anyone who would oppose saving the mother in these situations, I guess some people are just too extreme. And with the miscarriage, that baby is dying anyway, why not make it faster and thus less hard on it? That story doesn't make any sense.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The evil men can't do it if the women show up at the voting box in opposition.

They can't do it if the MEN show up at the voting box in opposition either.

I don't have to be a chick to empathize, to be enraged at this repudiation of a womans humanity as something lesser, to be outraged at this cack-handed miscarriage of social justice, to be angry at the inhumanity, stupidity and malice of some of my Y-chromosone carrying so-called-peers.

Worth remembering that as long as I have fought for youth rights, to drag them out of a category where they are regarded legally and socially as something on par with housepets and livestock....
The notion of shoving a whole category of PEOPLE, of HUMAN BEINGS, back into that legalized disrespect of personhood, of humanity...

Absolutely enrages me to the point of foaming rabidity.
We're talkin enraged ghost of Susan B Anthony with a flaming sword handing out prostate exams kinda pissed - just cause I cannot be a victim of this injustice makes it no less an injustice, and no less offensive to me.

-Frem

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I don't know what the current figures are, but I found this:

By gender, party, and regionA January 2003 CBS News/New York Times poll examined whether Americans thought abortion should be legal or not, and found variations in opinion which depended upon party affiliation and the region of the country.[53] The margin of error is +/- 4% for questions answered of the entire sample ("overall" figures) and may be higher for questions asked of subgroups (all other figures).[53]

Group..... Generally available..... Available, but with stricter limits.... Not permitted
Overall .....39% .........................38%............................................... 22%
Women .......37%..........................37%................................................ 24%
Men .........40%..........................40%................................................ 20%

These poll results boggle the mind. 24% of women oppose abortion in any form. 20% of men.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:53 AM

BYTEMITE

Women are brought up predisposed to be more judging towards other women, and predominantly do the slut-shaming. This is why the highschool mean girls are such a stereotype: it's because they exist.

But the culture also has a tendency to exaggerate the indiscretions of women over the indiscretions of men. Case in point: the recent General Petraeus thing - the woman he cheated with I have heard described as a gold-digging evil man eating slut. You'd think she murdered someone instead of merely had an affair. Yet those same people have very little negative to say about Petraeus' infidelity.

In fact, those same people were outright offended when I pointed out that Petraeus had as much blame in the situation as the woman, and the problem might even have come from Petraeus. The military and intelligence community has a long and messed up history of these such indiscretions and sometimes even harrassment, and women associated with military/intelligence are often scapegoated. They acted as though I had said something horrific, and that I impugned his honour... Um, hello? He did that himself.

For some reason the reaction to a woman in this position is very disturbingly visceral.

I believe this is probably because the after effects of an affair (pregnancy) are easier to pin on the woman. And so people try to "punish" them for this. It is odd.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:07 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I don't know what the current figures are...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/Abortion.aspx

Here's a summary of Gallup polls from 2001 to 2012.

What concerns me is that in the May 2012 poll only 38% of people polled think abortion should be available in all or most cases. Seems like a lot of folks are still in favor of some serious restrictions.

What they don't show, and I'd really like to see, is a breakdown by religious affiliation.

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:18 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

In the vein of Byte's last post, I hate the double standard that is out there about men and women and sex. If men sleep with lots of women they are a "player" "you dog you" (said affectionately by their friends). But if women sleep with lots of guys they are "sluts" or "loose". Why is there this disparity? I was raised that it takes two people to have a relationship, neither one is more blameless than the other or more responsable for things. I don't know where people get these attitudes of blame from or seeing one party different than the other.

An opposite example is when a guy "gets a woman pregnant" as though the woman had nothing to do with the situation and has no part in it. He gets blamed, or given credit, depending on the circumstances or attitudes of those around them.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Women are brought up predisposed to be more judging towards other women, and predominantly do the slut-shaming. This is why the highschool mean girls are such a stereotype: it's because they exist.

But the culture also has a tendency to exaggerate the indiscretions of women over the indiscretions of men. Case in point: the recent General Petraeus thing - the woman he cheated with I have heard described as a gold-digging evil man eating slut. You'd think she murdered someone instead of merely had an affair. Yet those same people have very little negative to say about Petraeus' infidelity.

In fact, those same people were outright offended when I pointed out that Petraeus had as much blame in the situation as the woman, and the problem might even have come from Petraeus. The military and intelligence community has a long and messed up history of these such indiscretions and sometimes even harrassment, and women associated with military/intelligence are often scapegoated. They acted as though I had said something horrific, and that I impugned his honour... Um, hello? He did that himself.

For some reason the reaction to a woman in this position is very disturbingly visceral.

I believe this is probably because the after effects of an affair (pregnancy) are easier to pin on the woman. And so people try to "punish" them for this. It is odd.

I'm with you on this one. You've got it completely right. Petraeus is every bit as culpable in this as she is; it's not as if he just slipped and fell into her vagina, or into an ongoing affair with her.

There seems to be a feeling among some that if a man cheats, it's because he's a man, but if a woman cheats, it's because she's devious. I'm a man, and I haven't cheated on my wife, because I'm capable of foreseeing the consequences, and they've never seemed worth it.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:43 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Meh, dun look at me about that mess - as a Polyamorus Anarchist I barely even COMPREHEND other peoples hangups about that sort of thing, much less understand them, since I see no logical reasons within it at all.

-F

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Friday, November 16, 2012 5:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

What Byte said, in spades. To say if women voted this way or that, it would all be solved, is simplistic at best. What Byte said explains part of it; religious indoctrination explains part of it; women's subservient attitudes toward their husband explains some of it; the power of men in politics explains some of it; and the biggest part is: Why should it only be women who care about the sanctity of a person's health and body?

The idea that it would all be solved if women just "voted" infuriates me, and I'll leave it at that out of respect for Anthony and the hope that he doesn't seriously believe that would solve the issue.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 6:24 AM

CAVETROLL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

To me, it is as simple as this: Does a person have the right to control their own body?

The answer is either Yes or No.

--Anthony

This is it in a nutshell. If you restrict the right of some people to do as they wish, expect your right to do as you wish will be restricted in the future.

Freedom, it ain't for the weak.

Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

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Friday, November 16, 2012 8:36 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
What Byte said, in spades. To say if women voted this way or that, it would all be solved, is simplistic at best. What Byte said explains part of it; religious indoctrination explains part of it; women's subservient attitudes toward their husband explains some of it; the power of men in politics explains some of it; and the biggest part is: Why should it only be women who care about the sanctity of a person's health and body?

The idea that it would all be solved if women just "voted" infuriates me, and I'll leave it at that out of respect for Anthony and the hope that he doesn't seriously believe that would solve the issue.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

Hello,

Sorry to infuriate you, Niki. The 'Mostly Men' comment bothered me.

It isn't Mostly Men. Or at least it wasn't mostly men in 2003.

So I won't say More Women need to vote in their own interests if you won't say abortion gets outlawed because of Mostly Men.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'll accept that, if you can show me facts and figures which show it hasn't been "mostly men" who wrote abortion laws. I don't think you can, but it would be educational for me if you could.

I would even go so far as to say mostly OLDER WHITE MALES, but if I'm mistaken, I'll happily apologize.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 16, 2012 11:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I'll accept that, if you can show me facts and figures which show it hasn't been "mostly men" who wrote abortion laws. I don't think you can, but it would be educational for me if you could.

I would even go so far as to say mostly OLDER WHITE MALES, but if I'm mistaken, I'll happily apologize.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

Hello,

I don't know whether it is mostly men who write such laws.

I only have figures on who supports such laws.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 11:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I'll accept that, if you can show me facts and figures which show it hasn't been "mostly men" who wrote abortion laws. I don't think you can, but it would be educational for me if you could.

I would even go so far as to say mostly OLDER WHITE MALES, but if I'm mistaken, I'll happily apologize.

Since most legislators are men, and most are white, and many have been in office for quite a while, it would seem likely that they write pretty much all the laws, be they opposing abortion or approving same-sex marriage.

The people who put them in office do so because they want certain things done. Unfortunately, a lot of people - men and women - seem to want abortion either severely restricted or prohibited. If you can't get to those folks and convice them that their beliefs are harming or endangering others, and diminishing their rights, it doesn't matter if they elect old white men or young women of color, the laws and rules they support will stay the same.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 11:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Indeed. If 61% of women want more restrictive abortion laws, then your problem isn't old, white male legislators.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 2:41 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Not following the debate in the US all that closely, but the most vocal supporters of a blanket ban on abortions appeared to be men in the US. I know a lot of women also feel that way, it's just that they were perhaps not as loud or ridiculous as the men.

I am sorry that it got to this sad state of affairs for the sad state of the abortion laws in Ireland to receive publicity. I've been meaning to post something on it for some time.

Again we see the lack of compassion of laws created on religious grounds to preserve the sanctitiy of human life. What a joke.

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Again we see the lack of compassion of laws created on religious grounds to preserve the sanctitiy of human life. What a joke.

Amen.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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