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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Blame Wimpy for Slow U.S. Response to Climate Change
Monday, November 19, 2012 5:13 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Part of it is also just human psychology. We live in the present, not the future, so why don’t I just take that dollar now, thank you. As J. Wellington Wimpy -- yup, Popeye's friend -- expresses the problem, "I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." When he’s staring at a lightly charred, grease-oozing meat patty wedged into a bun, Tuesday sounds as agreeable as anything because it’s practically synonymous with “never.” The problem with the live-now-pay-later approach is that there are many things dollars can't buy when they're gone, such as Arctic ice caps, biodiversity, pre-industrial ocean chemistry or historic sea levels. Now, don’t get me wrong. Human communities are adaptable. That’s how we walked out of Africa and colonized the world. But there’s an important disconnect here that warrants attention, too. People try to adapt once an event has occurred; beginning to adapt before events occur, even predictable events, is not always our strong suit. I bet the policy professionals and scientists who ponder climate change adaptation spend little if any time with investors and traders whose livelihoods rise or fall on the spread between company estimates and earnings. There’s a yawning chasm between how much tolerance companies and investors have for blips in performance, which is to say not much, and the large-scale threats to life and property in years and decades ahead, which as far as anybody knows could be considerable. I’d gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. The world has warmed about 0.8 degrees Celsius since 1900. To the extent that scientists can characterize a world 2 degrees C hotter, 3 degrees C hotter or 4 degrees C hotter, it's not one that's likely to have water, ice, coasts and soils in places we like them. "There is now little to no chance of maintaining the rise in global mean surface temperature at below 2 degrees C, despite repeated high-level statements to the contrary," Kevin Anderson, of the University of Manchester, and Alice Bows, of the University of East Anglia, wrote in a 2011 issue of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society: A devoted to research about extreme climate change. They also note that scientists think climate impacts expected from a 2 degree C rise will be worse than they thought just a few years ago. International policymakers have generally accepted two degrees as a rough estimate of the upper bounds of acceptable climate change: It might not be. Obama’s comments drew much attention yesterday, and if (if) the White House and legislators are able to agree on a climate policy, it would change the conversation nationally and globally. A tax on carbon pollution is receiving renewed attention, having been dismissed by climate policy advocates as too weak in 2009-2010 when Democrats tried and failed to move a cap-and-trade bill through the Senate. U.S. federal policy is important, but the attention it receives often obscures productive experiments going on in California, which held its first auction of carbon pollution permits yesterday; in the European Union, where the bloc's seven-year-old emissions trading system is undergoing a mid-course correction; in South Korea, which will test a carbon-trading system next year; in Australia, Mexico, Canada, China and elsewhere. Policy experiments such as these are intriguing to watch unfold, particularly where they might achieve lasting emissions reductions. Also, it's worth pointing out the U.S. has seen dramatic increases in solar power efficiency and decreases in coal use despite the absence of a national carbon policy. Federal officials can monitor these initiatives as they progress. As they do, they might also mind the gap between climate scenarios projected from our business-as-usual energy economy and from safer pathways. It would be a shame to look back and conclude that the United States was too J. Wellington Wimpy when it turns out to have mattered most. Much more at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-15/blame-wimpy-for-slow-u-s-response-to-climate-change.html
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:12 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:24 PM
HKCAVALIER
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There IS no climate change. The cult of AGW is trying to unseat the cult of Islam as the world's most serious threat to humanity.
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:31 PM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There IS no climate change. The cult of AGW is trying to unseat the cult of Islam as the world's most serious threat to humanity. " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:58 PM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: There IS no climate change. The cult of AGW is trying to unseat the cult of Islam as the world's most serious threat to humanity. QFMFNS
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:30 PM
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:26 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: But there’s an important disconnect here that warrants attention, too. People try to adapt once an event has occurred; beginning to adapt before events occur, even predictable events, is not always our strong suit.
Quote:"That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic."
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:07 PM
Quote:Originally posted by MAL4PREZ: Quoted For Mother Fucking Non Sense? (If I'm guessing right I'll just giggle for days...)
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:27 PM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:06 AM
Quote: Protests against pollution have multiplied in China as people become better informed and more concerned about the heavy ecological cost of economic development. Even state media now stresses the environment is a priority for China. Young people use micro-blogging to pass on the word. "People understand that the fight against pollution is a personal right, for there are very few places in the world where industrialisation has had such a massive and direct impact on such a large number of people," said environmental activist Ma Jun. Earlier this summer there were student-led protests against a copper alloy plant in Shifang, central Sichuan province. The local authorities quickly scrapped the project. In August 2011 a similar protest broke out in the industrial port of Dalian in the north-east, which mobilised 12,000 people. The authorities gave way there too. In Qidong, locals were protesting against plans by a Japanese-owned paper mill to build a wastewater pipeline close to a small port. "Many people earn a living from fishing here. That project jeopardised their livelihoods," said Li. She had learned about it on an internet forum and felt she had to do something. "Protecting the environment is our generation's responsibility, we have a better understanding about these issues." The government is concerned by these demonstrations. An editorial in the People's Daily, the communist party organ, stated that "the public is rapidly becoming aware of environmental issues and its rights"....should state coercion fail, the government will immediately make some concessions to prevent the movement from escalating. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/aug/21/environment-activists-china-pollution-protest
Quote: In response to electricity crisis caused by the Great East Japan Earthquake and nuclear power plant accident in Fukushima, the government, power companies and private companies have been trying to find out new framework of energy security, which is not highly depending on single energy source i.e. nuclear power. Consumers' concerns over energy source and environment are also increasing and one solution is the development of more renewable energy resource and realize the best energy mix. The Japanese government is currently formulating a new energy policy, in which presumably the portion of nuclear energy will be smaller while increasing focus on new and renewable energy. The Basic Energy Plan, which is currently under compilation at the initiative of the government, is supposed to be manifested in August 2012. This plan shall be closely watched, together with the movement of Nuclear Policy Outline, in order to assess mid-long term directional movement of Japanese energy development. http://www.finnode.fi/en/usa/projects/finnode_japan_2012_-_paradigm_shift_in_energy_environment_after_3.11.371.xhtml
Quote: Originally started as a pilot project in 2009, the Environmental Sustainability Schools Programme, now known as the Environmental Sustainability Project (ESP) is Youth @ SAIIA's newest youth outreach project that combines our longstanding commitment to public education on matters of international affairs with our desire to raise awareness of the current environmental sustainability debate among young South Africans. South Africa will host the all-important 17th United Nations Conference of Parties (COP 17) on Climate Change in Durban later this year. Youth @ SAIIA has themed this year's Environmental Sustainability Project "Road to COP 17. Learners from Gauteng, Kwa-Zulu Natal and the Western Cape will participate in a model youth climate change negotiation at COP-17. The learners will have a chance to share their solutions for tackling the environmentally linked challenges of today. http://www.saiia.org.za/youth-programmes/environmental-sustainability-project.html
Quote: However, not everything goes badly in Russia. Positive developments are already taking place even though they are only a beginning. The Russian state has laid some important foundations despite the corruption, poorly conceived instruments and a complicated implementation. With both the climate doctrine and the energy law from 2009, the negative effects of the climate change are no longer ignored. Additionally, the energy law is intended to end the waste of energy; the goal is to waste 40 percent less energy until 2020. The first regulations have been formulated, but their implementation remains to be seen. Russia's accession to the WTO promises some support. The Russian market will open slowly in the coming seven years until 2019, but the pressure is already increasing. The economy needs to modernize and end inefficiencies, especially in the area of power consumption, in order to be competitive. Modernization therefore becomes a question of economic survival. But the pressure increases also from society. Increasingly, environmental movements like NGOs are founded in Russia. Signs exist for a positive ecological change, but require further support. http://www.objectivemind.org/en/environment/russia/russias-environmental-problems/
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:45 AM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Right.... science is a cult.
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:45 PM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Quote:So you're looking at the U.S., Canada, and Western Europe to cut emissions enough to make up for the rest of the world.
Quote:I'm starting to think we'd do better preparing for climate change since we can't prevent it all by ourselves.
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:51 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Right.... science is a cult. Yeah, because scientists are not subject to influence from those holding political and economic power. H Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 2:49 PM
OONJERAH
Thursday, November 22, 2012 3:12 AM
Thursday, November 22, 2012 3:29 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I reject the above. Point by point, the nations listed:Quote: Protests against pollution have multiplied in China as people become better informed and more concerned about the heavy ecological cost of economic development. Even state media now stresses the environment is a priority for China.
Quote: Protests against pollution have multiplied in China as people become better informed and more concerned about the heavy ecological cost of economic development. Even state media now stresses the environment is a priority for China.
Quote:As to Japan:Quote: In response to electricity crisis caused by the Great East Japan Earthquake and nuclear power plant accident in Fukushima, the government, power companies and private companies have been trying to find out new framework of energy security, which is not highly depending on single energy source i.e. nuclear power.
Quote: In response to electricity crisis caused by the Great East Japan Earthquake and nuclear power plant accident in Fukushima, the government, power companies and private companies have been trying to find out new framework of energy security, which is not highly depending on single energy source i.e. nuclear power.
Quote:The Environment Ministry, responsible for tracking greenhouse gas emissions, hasn't released official data for 2011 or 2012. But the Yomiuri newspaper, citing ministry estimates, said this month that actual emissions for 2012 were projected to climb to about 1.32 billion tons, which would be the highest level since 2007, just before the Kyoto Protocol began requiring greenhouse gas reductions. ... Japan will not participate into the second commitment" period if Kyoto is extended beyond 2012, Masaru Sato, a Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in an email, using the common term of a renewal. Even with aggressive buildup of the renewable energy industry, Japan's emissions levels in 2030 will be about 13 percent higher than they would have been at that same time with full use of nuclear power, according to a June report from the Institute for Global Environmental Strategies, based in Kanagawa Prefecture.
Quote:Details of how India is looking forward and planning to deal with environmental challenges can be found at http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/abatra/india_environmental_news_compi_29.html
Quote:India's annual greenhouse gas emissions increased by 58 per cent from 1994-2007, driven by higher industrial activity, energy production and transport, government figures showed on Tuesday. "Between 1994 and 2007, some of the sectors indicate significant growth in greenhouse gas related emissions, such as cement production, electricity generation and transport," said a report released by Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh. Total annual greenhouse gas emissions grew from 1.25 billion tonnes in 1994 to 1.90 billion tonnes in 2007, confirming India among the world's biggest emitters.
Quote:As to Africa:Quote: Originally started as a pilot project in 2009, the Environmental Sustainability Schools Programme, now known as the Environmental Sustainability Project (ESP) is Youth @ SAIIA's newest youth outreach project that combines our longstanding commitment to public education on matters of international affairs with our desire to raise awareness of the current environmental sustainability debate among young South Africans.
Quote: Originally started as a pilot project in 2009, the Environmental Sustainability Schools Programme, now known as the Environmental Sustainability Project (ESP) is Youth @ SAIIA's newest youth outreach project that combines our longstanding commitment to public education on matters of international affairs with our desire to raise awareness of the current environmental sustainability debate among young South Africans.
Quote:You'll get no argument on Russia; their environmental record is horrific. Nonetheless, Quote: The first regulations have been formulated, but their implementation remains to be seen.
Quote: The first regulations have been formulated, but their implementation remains to be seen.
Quote:So yes, it's going along haltingly, slowly, and against barriers put up by government and industry. But it IS changing, education on the environment is growing, and measures are being taken even by third-world countries to recognize and affect climate change.
Quote:Aside from that, didn't we once consider ourselves the "world's leader", the "innovator"; didn't we pride ourselves on being in the forefront of positive change? The concept that "it won't make any difference anyway, so we shouldn't bother" is inexcusable in my opinion.
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:29 AM
Saturday, November 24, 2012 4:19 PM
Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:38 AM
Quote:respondents in Canada are more likely to call for environmental protection at the risk of hampering economic growth
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