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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
It could have been worse...without the guns.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:49 AM
HERO
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:03 AM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:09 AM
STORYMARK
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:47 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:27 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:32 AM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: I think Hero ought to send his sincere heartfelt sentiment of "it could have been worse" on condolence cards to the grieving parents in Newtown.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:44 AM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:45 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun. "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:18 AM
Quote:Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER: Bombs don't kill people, people kil people. A bomb is just a tool. Trying to take away people's bombs, is taking away their FREEDOM. The 2nd Amendment CLEARLY says its the right of the people to bear arms, which means armaments which includes BOMBS. You shouldn't focus on the means of killing, but rather the mental health issues of the bomber.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:28 AM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:40 AM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:46 AM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun. Best way to stop a bad man with a gun is to pry it from his cold unconscious hand. But you need skillz for that, and it takes training & discipline, both of which I conjure you are too lazy for, AU. Unarmed combat should be required for you to begin training in armed combat. But then, you may end up not feeling the need for a gat....
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Storybook - So, you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own guns? See, if I'D had said that, I'd be called a male chauvinist pig. Or worse.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Damn, you are desperate.
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs - I submit that 1 gun be kept in the principal's office, and another,on or near a random teacher's person. Both should be licensed to carry, trained to use, and have said weapons locked but ready to use, at a moment's notice. Storybook - So, you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own guns? See, if I'D had said that, I'd be called a male chauvinist pig. Or worse. But we don't know if she had those guns locked, did she ? Or why she had guns accessible to a violent young man ( did she fear for HER life ? ) And how many guns did the killer buy ? Or did he just steal them from his mom, and use them to commit these crimes anyways ? So really, what would a gun ban have done ? Next to nothing, it seems, in this case.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:54 AM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:03 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: "Sure, sure, dozens of school shootings done with guns... but hey, look, look over THERE - a single case from nearly a centruy ago. That like, proves that guns aren't an issue and stuff!!!"
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:05 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:07 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Also your idea about putting more guns in schools is about as stupid as you can get. This is real life, not the movies.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:15 PM
ARLO
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Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: nickerson - in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know. "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: I think it'd be a mistake to make educators be the ones responsible for armed security.
Quote: I also believe that what happedned in CT. was another failure of local law enforcement. The police there knew this kid. They knew him to be a strange and weird loner. He would stand on a street corner and stare passerbys down. You know, that 100 yard blank stare, and sometimes he would also verbally confront some people. So why didn't the police, in a town with no crime giving them anything else to do, why didn't these police bring this kid in for questioning. Questions about his home life and activities? Why didn't they know his mother had guns and she was taking him to the shooting range often? What is a 20 year-old doing if he's not working or going to college? All the warning signs were pretty clear.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:24 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: "Sure, sure, dozens of school shootings done with guns... but hey, look, look over THERE - a single case from nearly a centruy ago. That like, proves that guns aren't an issue and stuff!!!" Not one gun was fired when that fella blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Gas + crap = boom!
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:25 PM
Quote: The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother. Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing a trench coat, to hide his rifle when he entered the school, Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car...
Quote: He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.[1][2][3][4][5][6]
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by ARLO: Guess that puts us back to .... not ever knowing.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: nickerson - in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:33 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know.
Quote:Oklahoma legislator says teachers need option to carry guns at school “The idea is let's take a readily available resource — people that have buy-in, they care about kids — and let's train them to the level of police officers and put them back in their schools,” McCullough said. “I fear an accident or someone getting a gun away from a trained professional much less than I fear someone coming on campus and wreaking the kind of havoc that was done last week.” Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman, R-Sapulpa, said the events on Friday hit everyone hard. “I don't want to politicize anything,” Bingman said, “but I think at some point, rational minds need to sit down and ensure you have safe schools.” Sen. Ralph Shortey, R-Oklahoma City, took the proposed legislation a step further and said he'd allow any teacher or principal with an open-carry permit to bring a firearm to school. http://newsok.com/oklahoma-legislator-says-teachers-need-option-to-carry-guns-at-school/article/3738396] Republicans all, of course. As to those they want to arm:Quote:Several educators opposed McCullough's idea. Superintendents from the state's two largest school districts — Oklahoma City and Tulsa — expressed concern about the idea. “I am not interested in arming teachers and administrators with weapons in our school district,” Oklahoma City Superintendent Karl Springer said. “It would make more sense if funding could be made available to increase law enforcement presence.” Tulsa Public Schools has its own 23-member police force, Superintendent Keith Ballard said. On-campus law enforcement has dramatically reduced crime. He wouldn't expect the same result from allowing teachers to have guns. “Arming teachers and principals is not the answer if we are looking to make schools safe,” he said. “Ultimately, the best defense is open communication.” Chad Coomer, director of curriculum for Glenpool Public Schools, said he and the school resource officer spent Monday doing walk-throughs of all the district schools, looking for possible security improvements. One of the best defenses, he said, is strong relationships among students, staff and families. “Talk about it,” he said. “That's been our response. ... If you hear something, if you see something, share it. Talk about it.” Several educators said Monday they aren't interested. “I could not be in more opposition to that idea,” Sapulpa Superintendent Kevin Burr said. “Schools are not a place where we should be arming combatants. ... “Our job as educators is to try to create an educational environment and try to teach students how to love one another and try to get along with one another so these kinds of tragedies that occurred in Connecticut never happen again. That's our job. Our job's not to try to kill an intruder.” The idea is unsafe, said Ed Allen, president of the Oklahoma City American Federation of Teachers. “I don't think the answer to our gun problem is add more guns into the equation,” Allen said. “I don't think he probably really understands how schools operate. Schools can be emotional places at times. Kids can get emotional. Teachers can get emotional. Parents come in emotional. Throw weapons into that mix, and it can be dangerous.” Learning how to respond to active shooter situations is a complex and intensive part of law enforcement training, said Stan Florence, director of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. Members of the public armed with guns are not only less effective in responding to these types of situations, but there is a chance they could make the problem worse. “It's hard enough when you're trained to go into an active shooting situation to make sure the rounds you fire go where they're intended to,” Florence said. “You'd just have to really consider that if you're someone carrying a weapon, especially in a setting where there's a lot of innocent bystanders.”Same Yeah, let's arm the teachers. That would make for some REAL fun! Texas, of course, is on the forefront of such "intelligent" thinking:Quote:Texas school’s ‘Guardian Plan’ allows teachers to have guns. In 2007, a school district in Harrold, Texas, made a controversial decision. It allowed teachers to carry concealed weapons on school grounds to protect students against potential shooters.Excerpts from http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-school-guardian-plan-allows-teachers-guns-174238129.html Let's hope we don't hear about a student getting ahold of a teacher's gun, or a teacher accidentally shooting some kid, as a result of all this. Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Quote:Several educators opposed McCullough's idea. Superintendents from the state's two largest school districts — Oklahoma City and Tulsa — expressed concern about the idea. “I am not interested in arming teachers and administrators with weapons in our school district,” Oklahoma City Superintendent Karl Springer said. “It would make more sense if funding could be made available to increase law enforcement presence.” Tulsa Public Schools has its own 23-member police force, Superintendent Keith Ballard said. On-campus law enforcement has dramatically reduced crime. He wouldn't expect the same result from allowing teachers to have guns. “Arming teachers and principals is not the answer if we are looking to make schools safe,” he said. “Ultimately, the best defense is open communication.” Chad Coomer, director of curriculum for Glenpool Public Schools, said he and the school resource officer spent Monday doing walk-throughs of all the district schools, looking for possible security improvements. One of the best defenses, he said, is strong relationships among students, staff and families. “Talk about it,” he said. “That's been our response. ... If you hear something, if you see something, share it. Talk about it.” Several educators said Monday they aren't interested. “I could not be in more opposition to that idea,” Sapulpa Superintendent Kevin Burr said. “Schools are not a place where we should be arming combatants. ... “Our job as educators is to try to create an educational environment and try to teach students how to love one another and try to get along with one another so these kinds of tragedies that occurred in Connecticut never happen again. That's our job. Our job's not to try to kill an intruder.” The idea is unsafe, said Ed Allen, president of the Oklahoma City American Federation of Teachers. “I don't think the answer to our gun problem is add more guns into the equation,” Allen said. “I don't think he probably really understands how schools operate. Schools can be emotional places at times. Kids can get emotional. Teachers can get emotional. Parents come in emotional. Throw weapons into that mix, and it can be dangerous.” Learning how to respond to active shooter situations is a complex and intensive part of law enforcement training, said Stan Florence, director of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. Members of the public armed with guns are not only less effective in responding to these types of situations, but there is a chance they could make the problem worse. “It's hard enough when you're trained to go into an active shooting situation to make sure the rounds you fire go where they're intended to,” Florence said. “You'd just have to really consider that if you're someone carrying a weapon, especially in a setting where there's a lot of innocent bystanders.”Same
Quote:Texas school’s ‘Guardian Plan’ allows teachers to have guns. In 2007, a school district in Harrold, Texas, made a controversial decision. It allowed teachers to carry concealed weapons on school grounds to protect students against potential shooters.Excerpts from http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-school-guardian-plan-allows-teachers-guns-174238129.html
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:35 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car...
Quote: He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:38 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:40 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car... And here's the really important part ... Quote: He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground. So stopped after he was done... I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man. A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar. ...and now a Fundie! http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:42 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: ARLO, Guess ya never heard of the Pearl, MS shootings, have ya? Quote: The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother. Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing a trench coat, to hide his rifle when he entered the school, Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car... And here's the really important part ... Quote: He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.[1][2][3][4][5][6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting#Details Yeah. It only happens in the movies.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:45 PM
Quote:True. Friday's headline: "Lone gunman kills 27 people." But could have been: "Armed man shot while trying to enter local elementary school."
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:53 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:55 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: I think it'd be a mistake to make educators be the ones responsible for armed security. Its not about security...its about giving them a fighting chance. In police and military terms its called hardening the target. Its very simple. We've made laws that guarrantee to the criminal that if they take a gun to the school for whatever reason...murder, robbery, whatever...they are SAFE and in total control. A gun free zone is a free crime zone. As someone pointed out, this crazy fella committed 17 crimes before he fired the first shot. Quote: I also believe that what happedned in CT. was another failure of local law enforcement. The police there knew this kid. They knew him to be a strange and weird loner. He would stand on a street corner and stare passerbys down. You know, that 100 yard blank stare, and sometimes he would also verbally confront some people. So why didn't the police, in a town with no crime giving them anything else to do, why didn't these police bring this kid in for questioning. Questions about his home life and activities? Why didn't they know his mother had guns and she was taking him to the shooting range often? What is a 20 year-old doing if he's not working or going to college? All the warning signs were pretty clear.
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above. A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Said proper hi to you in the other thread, it's really NEAT to see you here! Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:04 PM
Quote:KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above. A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:06 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:15 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Quote:KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above. A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period. 'I'm right, you're wrong, ludicrous pronouncement, conversation over'. I'm just curious, do you score points in your own head when you do this? It's not personal. It's just war.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:20 PM
Quote:Look out Arlo...you'll be pulled into more than THAT if you try to communicate with Raptor. He's our version of the OB right-wingers, tho' not quite as ugly as they could get, he's JUST as brainwashed and only gets his "news" from right-wing radio and FauxNews. So be forewarned
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:02 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: ARLO Zero examples, one example, two examples... so tired of this disingenuous crap from the Left. Doesn't matter what I say, you're so dogmatically blinded to believe what you want, that no level of discourse is worth my time.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:05 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Whew! Too close! Thankfully Niki has jumped in to save the day, bravely warning Arlo about the grave threat from AuRaptor and Fox News. Good going girl! We wouldn't want anyone to not be as perpetually fixated on them as you are.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:06 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:39 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Sometime one liner absolutes are all that are called for. Why waste precious time fussing over mindless minutia, and instead just get right to the point?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:44 PM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:49 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Look out Arlo...you'll be pulled into more than THAT if you try to communicate with Raptor. He's our version of the OB right-wingers, tho' not quite as ugly as they could get, he's JUST as brainwashed and only gets his "news" from right-wing radio and FauxNews. So be forewarned Whew! Too close! Thankfully Niki has jumped in to save the day, bravely warning Arlo about the grave threat from AuRaptor and Fox News. Good going girl! We wouldn't want anyone to not be as perpetually fixated on them as you are. "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic." Benjamin Franklin
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Hi Arlo, welcome. It's not personal. It's just war.
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