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I'm reminded of the 80s, when drunk driving seemed to be an epidemic.

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

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I'm reminded of the 80s, when drunk driving seemed to be an epidemic.

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Hello,

I've often wondered. Did this actually get any better?

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 32,885 people died in traffic crashes in 2010 in the United States (latest figures available), including an estimated 10,228 people who died in drunk driving crashes, accounting for 31% of all traffic deaths last year.

Since NHTSA began recording alcohol-related statistics in 1982, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 52% from 21,113 in 1982. Since the inception of The Century Council and our national efforts to fight drunk driving, drunk driving fatalities have declined 35% from 15,827 in 1991. (Source: NHTSA/FARS, 2011)

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
According to NHTSA, drunk driving deaths have been reduced by more than half.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
According to NHTSA, drunk driving deaths have been reduced by more than half.

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Due to the government seizing all those dangerous assault cars, no doubt.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
According to NHTSA, drunk driving deaths have been reduced by more than half.

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Due to the government seizing all those dangerous assault cars, no doubt.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
According to NHTSA, drunk driving deaths have been reduced by more than half.

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Due to the government seizing all those dangerous assault cars, no doubt.

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Cites?


No, due to subtle and not-so-subtle changes to the DUI laws, coupled with more aggressive enforcement of the existing laws.

In other words, when we see that there's a problem, we can choose to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist (your solution), or we can adjust and readjust to see what works.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And now you propose a training requirement similar to the one required to get your CCW license. (Something I proposed on page one of this thread which no one seemed to notice. Y'know, "gun literacy.")

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I've seen proposals like this a few times, and, while it might reduce the number of accidental shootings, I can't see it as doing much about a tragedy like at Sandy Hook. Seems like finding and fixing the folks who do such things might be a better solution.

I've proposed several times recently that reporting - by school counselors, doctors, psychiatric professionals, and family members - of folks who might be prone to mass killing should be encouraged, so those persons might get evaluation, treatment, or possibly confinement; possibly with disincentives for failure to make such a report. No one seems interested in this idea. Any idea why?

I'd note that the reduction in drunk driving fatalities from 26143 in 1982 (60% of all fatalities) to 12,744 in 2009 (38%), wasn't due to the government taking everyone's cars away. They increased enforcement and punishment of the folks caught (though I'd like to see more), and increased education. While there's still a way to go, the process seems to be working. Why not something similar for potential violence, that focuses on the possible offender rather than their tool of choice, be it gun or car.

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Has anyone here suggested confiscating all your guns? Anyone?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this, and if they have to kick in every door to get these automatic and semi-automatic weapons I'll volunteer to help. Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with.

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Originally posted by Niki2:


Again I ask: Why can't we deal with BOTH the problems in our mental-health system AND stopping the FUTURE sale of semi-automatic weapons and high-count magazines! What's wrong with doing both at the same time?

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The folks who've done school, theater, and other mass killings have pretty much all been of a type, so why not require school counselors, doctors, psychiatrists/psychologists, and other folks who are trained to look for symptoms of this type (or any other type likely to be violent) to report such individuals for further testing? Government panels of trained professionals could decide who was enough of a risk to require removal from society.

Also - to aid in compliance - failure of a counselor, mental health worker, or doctor to report a potential killer would of course lead to criminal charges if someone they did not identify ended up committing a murder. ETA: Family members who fail to report such a person might also be charged.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:


For that matter, how does anyone plan on paying to arm teachers in schools? Who pays for their weapons? Their training? Who takes responsibility and liability when one of their guns ends up in the wrong hands (again) and more kids are dead behind it?

And who pays for more law enforcement and education to reduce gun violence?


Let me know when you figure that out, since I *KNOW* you won't be willing to raise a single penny of taxes for it.

I'm all ears.

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Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
I'm not sure of laws in the US, but here we have mandatory reporting (religious clerics currently excempt - but that is another story). So say for example I have a client who tells me they are going to commit an act of violence, I must report it to the relevant authority. Counsellors, teachers, any professional really has a duty of care to act on these kind of statements.

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

We have some of that here, but unfortunately that is in direct relation to the problem, as folks who might otherwise seek out available mental health resources do not dare as they fear that mandatory reporting thing might end up with the doc misinterpreting one of thier statements, and depending on interpretation of that mandate, also dare not admit criminal activity, drug use, or really, even talk about their damn problems, cause they have no assurance that such would not be handed over to law enforcement for brownie points.

I mean, a direct statement - "I am going to go there and kill everyone in that place", MIGHT be rhetorical, or they might mean it, sure, and something like that I could see...
But - "Some days I just wanna kill EVERYBODY!" (and frankly, who HASN'T felt that way sometimes?) that statement could ALSO be mistaken and used in the same fashion, so therin lies the problem.

A lot of folks who could USE some help, who might actually WANT it, do not dare because of the limited confidentiality - especially those who have engaged in morally dubious actions directly related to the "issues" they have, or who's problems came as a result of that conduct or the necessity of engaging in it.
And yeah, that's a personal beef with me, cause it bites ME on the ass.
A lot of people can come to me, and know that confidentiality is utterly, ultimately, assured...

Who do *I* go to ?

-Frem

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
How do you plan to pay for all that mental health outreach?

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For that matter, how does anyone plan on paying to arm teachers in schools? Who pays for their weapons? Their training? Who takes responsibility and liability when one of their guns ends up in the wrong hands (again) and more kids are dead behind it?

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And who pays for more law enforcement and education to reduce gun violence?

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Let me know when you figure that out, since I *KNOW* you won't be willing to raise a single penny of taxes for it.

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I'm all ears.

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We are now as a nation-state practically drowning in a fast-flowing, deep river of blood. As we thrash about wildly trying to keep our heads up, however, we also shut our eyes and minds to the single common denominator of and answer to our haplessness: The overwhelming majority of the gunmen are white men.

Instead, like one-note-Johnnies, “liberals” have aimed straight at the gun issue, while "conservatives," seemingly insensitive to the victims' pain and are unable to actually see the blood. They counter by waving the Scond Amendment high in the air. See Ann Coulter’s tweet immediately following the shooting: “more guns, less mass shootings

For others it’s all about mental illness and the ongoing health care crisis in America (despite “Obamacare”).

Jackson Katz is an author and social critic. He asks us to “(i)magine if 61 out of 62 mass killings were done by women [or black men]? Would that [their gender or race] be seen as merely incidental and relegated to the margins of discourse? No. It would be the first thing people talked about.”

But because we are dealing with white, middle class men, the most powerful and privileged group in this society, no one dares to ask the question. Not, as Katz suggests, the knee-jerk questions: “Where did he get the gun?” or “Why wasn’t he on medication?” But: “What is happening with white men?” (Emphasis added).

“This is about masculinity and it’s about manhood,” Katz added.

In America, unlike almost anywhere else on earth, the gun, more so than any other icon you can name, symbolizes manhood and masculinity. It is the ultimate phallic symbol.

Katz goes on: “So much of gun culture in the U.S. is about masculinity but it’s unspoken. Femininity simply isn’t constructed in a way that teaches women to use violence as a means to an end. One of the ways we can understand violence is as an external manifestation of internal pain.”

Men are only allowed to experience certain emotions, principally anger. Violence and anger go hand-in-hand as “acceptable” forms of male expression. “Men are rewarded for achieving certain goals and for establishing of dominance through the use of violence,” Katz says.

Joe Madison is a talk show host out of Washington, D.C. On Dec. 19, he noted that “Nobody’s gonna call you a boy if you’re walkin’ around with an AK-47.” He said that guns don’t just indicate but validate manhood in this society.

And this culture of violence extends from the “disturbed,” or lonely, or low-self-esteemed individual straight through to the taking (read: enslaving, colonizing, raping, robbing, stealing, conquering, plundering and punishing) of the “other,” of women, of whole villages, countries, nations, nation-states, and of entire continents. The most salient question here is who over the last 500 years has led the world in these pursuits? And, for most of that history, at the point of a gun.

Katz puts it nicely: “Militarism is, in a sense, a projection of force and power as the assertion of national manhood.”

Vengeance plays a huge role in this dynamic, too. “Often these shooters are harboring resentment -- they retreat into themselves and then develop these revenge fantasies,” Katz says. “Most of the school shootings over the past couple of decades have been revenge killings.” The victims are mere “props” in his stage act. The gunman’s gun gives voice to a terror-striking and vengeful soliloquy.

As men, particularly as white men, “we” are socialized to objectify the world and all its contents. That’s why capitalism is so popular, a virtual article of faith, among most “Western” men. Capitalism requires no concern for anyone or anything beyond achieving strictly individualized, personal “profit.” They are socialized to not just believe but to know that they are entitled by God or by their very essence to financial success, access to women, power. When, for whatever reason, they are denied these “things,” they feel betrayed of their birthright. Many seethe in a lifelong funk of quiet desperation and longing. Others, far too many, turn to the most convenient, reliable and time-tested form of masculine validation available: violence, gun violence.

“As a white man, the assumption is that you are the center of the world. Your needs should be met. You should be successful,” Katz says. They themselves become “victims,” in other words, when they don’t get what they are “supposed” to have. For them, every aspect of life is always a zero-sum proposition. Anybody else’s success is always viewed by them as having been obtained at their expense, as their “loss.”

“This explains the cultural energy on the right in this past generation – so many of these men see themselves as victims of multiculturalism and of feminism,” he adds. “It’s undermining the cultural centrality of male authority.” Katz points out that we can see this worldview manifesting itself in the Men’s Rights Movement. “They are at the front line making the argument that men are the true victims.”

Perhaps we’re just dealing with a form of sociopathy? Perhaps. A sociopath is nothing more than someone who lacks empathy. “Well,” says Katz, “we socialize empathy out of boys all the time. Sociopathy is the extreme manifestation of the way we socialize boys in our society.”

But this, of course, is not just about “masculinity.” In its full Western European and North American manifestations, it is “white masculinity” that is the driving force. As white men will be overwhelmed soon by sheer force of numbers, expect these incidents to become even more frequent, more vicious, more terrible.

So, we need to stop blaming the guns, or the lack of mental health care, or the video games. Rather, it is the society itself in which these boys are brought to manhood that needs radical change and treatment.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
When more info starts coming out, I'll post on the forthcoming Royal Commission into child abuse and the Catholic Church. It should be of interest to you, Frem. So much of the abuse was in institutions with the most vulnerable of children. Shocking,as is the constant cover up and excuses by the church.

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