Nancy Lanza was a survivalist "prepper" by Niki2

America loves a winner!

Isn't that EX sister-in-law, who is the source for this info ?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 5:26 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I think a prepper could've bought more than 3 guns with $150,000/year alimony.

And the house would look like this:

Nancy Lanza's brother was a cop and a deputy sheriff, who lived next door and taught her how to shoot safely and store her guns securely.

Adam Lanza got A's in college at age 16 and was employed by Sandy Hook School to install its computer network. Adam Lanza's father and brother are Wall Street banksters. Jewish?

http://heloise8.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/lanza-is-an-ethnic-italian-je
wish-name/

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:18 AM

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2012/12/19/does-lanzas-alleged-bushmaster-
ar-15-assault-weapon-really-exist/

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Jew Adam Lanza

No Assault Rifle Found at Sandy Hook Massacre

A late night video shows police destroying forensic evidence when they handle and eject rounds from a loaded firearm located inside the trunk of a car that was presumably driven to the scene by murder suspect, Adam Lanza.

If the AR-15 remained in the car, as reported by federal and State authorities, it could not have been used as the murder weapon. If the firearm found in the car was not a Bushmaster AR-15 we must consider that this assault rifle, allegedly owned by Lanza’s mother, was never at the crime scene.

If .223 bullet casings were found in the school how did authorities know for sure they were fired from a Bushmaster AR-15 if the gun discovered in the trunk was a shotgun? More baffling is that the car trunk was opened hours after authorities had already confirmed they found a Bushmaster AR-15 in the car.

If .223 shells were found at the scene who else could have been firing an assault weapon inside the school?

From ABC News:

“A Sig Sauer handgun and a Glock handgun were used in the slaying and .223 shell casings — a round used in a semi-automatic military style rifle — were also found at the scene. ” (Bushmaster AR-15 was not specifically mentioned)

“…However, federal authorities cannot confirm that the handguns or the rifle were the weapons recovered at the school. “

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/connecticut-shooter-adam-lanza/story?id=
17975673#.UNJHaXf_k19

From CBS News:

“A law enforcement source told CBS News’ Pat Milton that casings (spent shells) from a .223 semi automatic rifle were found inside the school.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559261/connecticut-elementary-sc
hool-massacre-18-children-among-27-dead/

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:39 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Nancy Lanza, 52, was also reported to have been stockpiling food in the large home she shared with Adam in Newtown.

So do Mormons. Round 'em all up?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:40 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Nancy Lanza, 52, was also reported to have been stockpiling food in the large home she shared with Adam in Newtown.

So do Mormons. Round 'em all up?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

Cap'n Straw-man strikes!

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:58 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think the fact that she may have been stockpiling, or 'prepping' is about as relevant to the discussion as the color of her shoes. Which is the point of mentioning Mormons.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:12 AM

STORYMARK

She was killed with her own guns, and mentioning her stockpiling them is as irrelevant as shoe color?

Now - it may not be the most relevant part of the story - but to say its completely irrelevant is utter horseshit.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:26 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Stockpiling food is utterly irrelevant. And merely having guns is relevant, but 'stockpiling' them is irrelevant (if indeed that remotely resembles the situation) since merely having guns at all was sufficient to the result.

Labeling her a 'prepper' is utterly irrelevant.

--Anthony

ETA:

For some perspective on the term 'stockpile': http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/13/1/15.full

Quote:

Concentration of ownership
Almost half (48%) of all individual gun owners, corresponding to 13% of the US adult population, reported owning 4 firearms. Household ownership followed a similar pattern, with 41% of firearm-owning households reporting ownership of 4 firearms (table 2). The 20% of gun owners who owned the most guns possessed about 65% of the nation’s guns.

Number of guns
The actual number of guns reported in our survey varied depending on how the question was asked and who answered the question. Individual firearm owners reported owning an average of 6.6 (95% confidence interval (CI) 5.2 to 7.9, median 3) working firearms. On further examination, it seemed that individuals who owned > 4 firearms (with an average of 12 firearms per person) were greatly affecting the mean. When outliers representing the top 3% of gun owners (those owning >25 guns) were removed, the average number of working firearms per owner was 5.0 (95% CI 4.6 to 5.4). On the basis of estimates of 26% of adults in the US owning at least one firearm, we estimated that 57 million adults owned 283 million firearms (95% CI 260 to 305 million).

Estimates based on the number of household firearms were lower. We estimated that 42 million households in the US possessed at least one firearm in 2004, with an average of 5.2 (95% CI 4.9 to 5.6) guns per household, with outliers of >25 guns removed. The number of privately owned firearms in the US based on these estimates would be 218 million (95% CI 206 to 235 million).

So, re: stockpiles... based on available information, she was probably within the median range. (An average gun owner.)

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:02 AM

America loves a winner!

Were the Columbine killers " preppers " ? Or were their parents?

And how'd that assault gun ban do in keeping that death toll down ?

Frelling idiots, acting every bit like the bible stories of King Herod. Don't just kill the alleged Messiah... kill ALL the males 2 years old and younger !

PROBLEM SOLVED!

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:02 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

I think it's too early to say whether this information is relevant. A fuller picture may emerge of a paranoid, unbalanced mother who was attracted to extreme movements, and passed some of this mentality on to her son... Or it may have no bearing whatsoever.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:28 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I think the fact that she may have been stockpiling, or 'prepping' is about as relevant to the discussion as the color of her shoes. Which is the point of mentioning Mormons.

Indeed - hell any old lady who cans food could be considered such, and a lot of folks collect the occasional firearm, even ones they'll never use.*
This kind of deliberate, malicious demonization is exactly WHY I consider the credibility of a rush-to-judgement to be virtually nil - and the deliberate nature of it is also why I consider the judgement of any that play along with it to be seriously flawed.

-Frem

*Or in some cases, cannot use, I have neither the visual range or depth perception to use a long rifle, but own a Mosin Nagant cause it was dirt cheap and it's an effective hunting rifle to loan in case of loss/damage/mechanical failure.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:51 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I think the fact that she may have been stockpiling, or 'prepping' is about as relevant to the discussion as the color of her shoes. Which is the point of mentioning Mormons.

Got it in one. Just another part in the process of making her, and by extension all folks who own guns (or in some cases, the 'wrong' guns), the "Other", so one doesn't have to consider their rights or viewpoint.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't see this as "deliberate, malicious demonization", but as more facts coming out about the people involved. As far as I know, "preppers" (as in being prepared) are people who believe disaster (in one form or another) is coming, so are essentially doing what survivalists do. Apparently they prefer to be called "preppers" "because they are regular people with normal lifestyles and jobs who prepare for a variety of reasons whether natural or man-made." I thought that described survivalists, too; I'm not sure what the difference is. I have nothing against them; I don't agree with them, but that's neither here nor there.

But the point is that it's one more piece which MIGHT inform as to the shooter's mentality and that of his mother. Obviously one person's description is not enough to be conclusive, but given his mother had six (not three as PN claimed) guns, three of which her son took with him and three of which were found in the home, it might be an indication of something about the woman and something about her son. Or not.

There is a vast difference between preppers and the Mormons, so that's absurd. Mormons engaged in what is similar to preppers are an entire community, have been living their lifestyle for many decades, and do so for different reasons than preppers.

As KPO said:

Quote:
I think it's too early to say whether this information is relevant. A fuller picture may emerge of a paranoid, unbalanced mother who was attracted to extreme movements, and passed some of this mentality on to her son... Or it may have no bearing whatsoever.

I wouldn't go so far as to think she's what he suggested, given she seemed normal to others and I think if she was that kind of nutcase, SOMETHING would have shown up to those who knew her. But I also think that if it turns out she was a prepper, it may be relevant. If she believed in upcoming disaster and passed that belief on to her son, it could certainly have played into his mentality.

Quote:
any old lady who cans food could be considered such

That is pure bullshit and you know it. If she was involved in the prepper network, that's a very specific thing, not just some old lady canning food! It's not a matter of "playing along" with anything...as facts about the Trayvon Martin case came to light, we got a clearer picture of his killer and of him. There are varying opinions, and will be on any such issue. But facts which come out as time goes by give a fuller picture in every case such as this, there's nothing irrelevant about that. Whether the prepper thing is true or not, time will tell; if nobody else confirms it, certainly the ex-sister-in-law's statement is open to question. Also, it matters nothing whether she's the sister-in-law or ex-sister-in-law. Dunno how long they were married, but relatives of any kind can be closer to people than friends or strangers and if they're friendly, discuss many things.

The shooter's IQ has nothing to do with anything, either. In fact, a good portion of people who commit mass murder are found to be high IQ, and it's also in the definition of a number of mental illnesses. Bipolars are supposedly of higher IQ than the "average" person; so what? Doesn't make us any more able to function in society, any more than it apparently did for the shooter in this case.

I find the various arguments against this information and the desire to dismiss it interesting. People take sides; depending on what side they are on, their opinions are colored to either believe or disbelieve things that come out. Personally, I'm withholding judgment; I have no problem if she was a prepper, but it might have had some influence on her son's mentality--if her feelings and that influence were beyond the norm, it could well help us to understand why all this happened. I'm interested in any clues which might help us understand why this horrific event happened.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:35 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:39 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Were the Columbine killers " preppers " ? Or were their parents?

And how'd that assault gun ban do in keeping that death toll down ?

Frelling idiots, acting every bit like the bible stories of King Herod. Don't just kill the alleged Messiah... kill ALL the males 2 years old and younger !

PROBLEM SOLVED!

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

The Columbine killers' parents were an FBI agent and Air Force officer.

The Columbine killers were jewish homosexuals who only killed Christian heterosexuals.

The Columbine killers planned to flee to Israel which has no extradition treaty with USA, but their jewish Trench Coat Mafia and govt handlers killed them first.

The police shot kids trying to flee the gunmen at Columbine, according to police confessions and lawsuits pending.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 11:23 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
That is pure bullshit and you know it.

Oh, you mean like how the media initially deliberately concealed or rather intentionally omitted from coverage one holy hell of a lot of big red flags in respect to Zimmerman, while practically digging up every possible bit of "dirt" on Martin ?

THAT kind of "bullshit" ?

Come *ON* doll, you have *WATCHED* me dissect and demolish case after case of that exact same kind of deliberate demonization right freaking here, time and time again, and you expect me not to be pretty damn skeptical when it happens again ?

By now it's freakin standard operating practice to do this, in the hopes of baiting the gullible in a rush to judgement, and sure enough despite the fact that they damn well should know better they just freakin lap it right the hell up, every time.

While initially fostered in "official" form by COINTELPRO, although existing in one form or another even as far back as the 1700's - the primary use of it these days is by Law Enforcement and our so-called Justice system in order to deliberately load potential jury pools, along with creating enough social/political support to push a case through even if the actual evidence is lacking.

It *IS* bullshit, a dirty trick, and playing into it is a fools bargain since it is one of the ways by which our so-called-Justice system has gone completely off the rails.

Before you jump down my throat about it, one might consider just how damn many times I have been proven correct in that skepticism.

-Frem

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:00 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I don't see this as "deliberate, malicious demonization", but as more facts coming out about the people involved.

Oh, come on, Niki.

Look at the title line of the article you cited.

"Mother of Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza 'was a gun obsessive living in fear of society's collapse'"

[sarcasm]No. Not trying to stereotype her at all. [/sarcasm]

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:41 PM

My question is - if you live with a disturbed young man, wtf are you doing stockpiling weapons and ammo. Well my question actually is, if you are not seriously disturbed your own good self, wtf are you doing stockpiling weapons and ammo?

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:30 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Well my question actually is, if you are not seriously disturbed your own good self, wtf are you doing stockpiling weapons and ammo?

You could be a serious competitive shooter. Many have several guns to compete in different shooting disciplines, and may go through hundreds of rounds a week in practice. Hunters tend to have different firearms and ammunition for different types of game, and also tend to practice. Lots of folks just like to shoot holes in paper targets as recreation, and have several firearms and their ammunition to do that. Even folks who just go out and shoot a .22 rifle at tin cans realize that a brick of 500 rounds is cheaper and more convenient to by than individual boxes of 50.

But the way you state your question tends to give away that all you're interested in doing is demonizing gun owners, so you don't really want an answer.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:42 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:

My question is - if you live with a disturbed young man, wtf are you doing stockpiling weapons and ammo.

Unfortunately, she paid the ultimate price for being so naive and stupid. Too bad the father and the other son were too busy in their lives to give a crap about the deteriorating situation there.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

You could be a serious competitive shooter. Many have several guns to compete in different shooting disciplines, and may go through hundreds of rounds a week in practice. Hunters tend to have different firearms and ammunition for different types of game, and also tend to practice. Lots of folks just like to shoot holes in paper targets as recreation, and have several firearms and their ammunition to do that. Even folks who just go out and shoot a .22 rifle at tin cans realize that a brick of 500 rounds is cheaper and more convenient to by than individual boxes of 50.

But the way you state your question tends to give away that all you're interested in doing is demonizing gun owners, so you don't really want an answer.

I'm questioning the choices people make. And surely she made some disastrous choices.

Just a quick scan of internet resources show many caveats on adolescents and owning guns. Your regular adolescent lacks the capacity to think through consequences generally and are prone to risk taking behaviour. You run an increased risk of accidental shooting just by having adolescents and weapons in your house. The literature says 'ask yourself if you really need the weapons and if you do, keep them under lock and key'.

Now all accounts to date indicate that

a) the shooter was a disturbed adolescent.
b) the mother was stockpiling weapons - for whatever reason, a stupid idea.
c) the shooter was able to access military style weapons and lots and lots of ammo.

So I guess you don't get that I don't approve of people owning recreational weapons. I don't want people shooting tin cans. I just don't like guns.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Unfortunately, she paid the ultimate price for being so naive and stupid. Too bad the father and the other son were too busy in their lives to give a crap about the deteriorating situation there.

A bit harsh on them, given what they now have to live with.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:29 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So I guess you don't get that I don't approve of people owning recreational weapons. I don't want people shooting tin cans. I just don't like guns.

Nice of you to admit it. So now I can not worry about taking you seriously when you try to act like you're rational about the violence debate.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Nice of you to admit it. So now I can not worry about taking you seriously when you try to act like you're rational about the violence debate.

Not liking guns makes me not rational? Why?

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Friday, December 21, 2012 2:54 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Not liking guns makes me not rational? Why?

It's sort of like saying "No one should have hammers" because you hit your thumb once. Or not liking motorcycles because a friend hit a tree and was killed on one. It's easier to blame the thing than your lack of skill with a hammer, or your friend's foolish behavior on a bike. And since you don't own a hammer or a bike, it costs you nothing.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, December 21, 2012 3:14 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Oh, you mean like how the media initially deliberately concealed or rather intentionally omitted from coverage one holy hell of a lot of big red flags in respect to Zimmerman, while practically digging up every possible bit of "dirt" on Martin ?

-Frem

Is this the same media which rushed to make sure GZ was described and known as a WHITE hispanic ? The same media (NBC) which intentionally doctored a 9-1-1 tape, taking his words out of context, and making it appear that GZ had offered up to the operator that Trayvon looked like he was up to no good, because he was black ? The same media which repeatedly posted pics of a younger Trayvon, for the purpose of amplifying sympathy for him, and to make GZ appear all the more villainous ?

Seriously pal, you live in bizarro world, full time.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, December 21, 2012 3:51 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Jewish Wall Street banker Peter Lanza?
http://wellaware1.com/fairfield.htm

OBAMA, PELOSI, CLINTON, BLOOMBERG, EMANUEL SAY GIVE UP YOUR GUNS NOW!!!!!!!!!

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Friday, December 21, 2012 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

It's sort of like saying "No one should have hammers" because you hit your thumb once. Or not liking motorcycles because a friend hit a tree and was killed on one. It's easier to blame the thing than your lack of skill with a hammer, or your friend's foolish behavior on a bike. And since you don't own a hammer or a bike, it costs you nothing.

Not liking or approving of something is different to proposing a ban. Can you see the difference?

And no, guns are not like hammers or bikes no matter how often those analogies are drawn by gun advocates.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 8:54 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
And no, guns are not like hammers or bikes no matter how often those analogies are drawn by gun advocates.

And whay is that?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:10 PM

Geez Geezer, haven't you read all this before?

Difference between hammers, bikes, cars and any other object you may bring up in comparison is what they were made for.

A gun is designed to kill. I can't build a house with it, I can't ride to the shop, I can't do anything else with it but keep it as a weapon, to be used if necessary to tear into flesh.

That is why I don't I love guns. I don't love killing implements. They may occasionally be necessary in this world, but I don't like em.

Comprende?

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

A gun is designed to kill.

So is a martial arts sword, but Wushu competitions use them with flowing beauty.

Arrows are designed to kill but archery competitions are big in Renaissance festivals.

Fencing... Civil war re-enactments...

Just saying there are uses for weapons that you might not readily associate with recreation or sport.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA

LAWN DARTS.

Okay, yes they were ridiculously dangerous and eventually banned, but I liked the bloody things!

-F

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

A gun is designed to kill.
So is a martial arts sword, but Wushu competitions use them with flowing beauty.

Arrows are designed to kill but archery competitions are big in Renaissance festivals.

Fencing... Civil war re-enactments...

Just saying there are uses for weapons that you might not readily associate with recreation or sport.

yes, we have had this tendancy to make weapons into objects of lust. I tend to agree with Mal4prez as to why that is.

"My you have a large and lovely sword, m'lord."

Regardless of whether you consider them filled with flowing beauty, they are still designed as weapons and I reserve the right to dislike implements of killing. If you have a problem with that, it aint my problem.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

LAWN DARTS.

Okay, yes they were ridiculously dangerous and eventually banned, but I liked the bloody things!

Those were so much fun. But some dumb parents gave them to the kiddies, and suddenly they vanished from existence.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
yes, we have had this tendancy to make weapons into objects of lust. I tend to agree with Mal4prez as to why that is.

"My you have a large and lovely sword, m'lord."

Wow, you know I like you MD, but you really need to ease up on the sexualizing thing. Holding my Wife make me want to have sex, holding my sword inspires me to work towards accuracy in movement- a physical & mental discipline. A meditation even.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 1:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Wow, you know I like you MD, but you really need to ease up on the sexualizing thing. Holding my Wife make me want to have sex, holding my sword inspires me to work towards accuracy in movement- a physical & mental discipline. A meditation even.

It's the first comment I've made on the sexualising of weapons. Whether you feel it or not, its definitely there with weapons being objects of desire. It's not me that sexualises them. Just look up 'guns' and 'sexy' on the internet.

If I lived in a time where samurai swords had been responsible for the dead women and children in the next village, I'd probably feel the same emotions for them that I do for guns.

And while his samurai lordship proudly displayed them in all their ornate glory over his fireplace (okay extrapolating here I know) there would be those who would always just see them as implements of killing, regardless how pretty they were.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 2:23 PM

America loves a winner!

Confuse not the riddle of steel with the riddle of ...well, you know.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, December 21, 2012 2:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It's not me that sexualises them. Just look up 'guns' and 'sexy' on the internet.

Yeah, I know 'sexy' is a term applied to guns, but it's also applied to cars. Personally, I can't see using that terminology my own self for either.
Quote:

If I lived in a time where samurai swords had been responsible for the dead women and children in the next village, I'd probably feel the same emotions for them that I do for guns.

Fair enough. As a guy, I'll admit that I have a fascination with the deadly, and being able to harness the danger a bit. I once climbed about the slick wet outside of a tour boat at night because the stairways to the upper deck were congested, and I found what I had done for expediency was a tiny bit more difficult than expected, and a lot more fun as well. Most could not have done it; it made me grin.
Skydiving, bungi jumping, target shooting, I know, we guys can be pretty crazy...

Perhaps it's a way of making death less of a strange thing, and more of a thing that is, brushed with even in the smallest way, less scary.

I'm not a gun guy, but I can see the draw to it for some.

A friend of mine was killed in a car crash when she was seventeen, but what? Was I going to hate cars? Those two ton weapons in the wrong or intoxicated hands?

I guess I take heavy things too lightly, and light things too heavily.

Or maybe, just maybe, we all take things in the ways most comfortable to us all-?

[End ramble]

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Friday, December 21, 2012 3:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Perhaps it's a way of making death less of a strange thing, and more of a thing that is, brushed with even in the smallest way, less scary.

I'm not a gun guy, but I can see the draw to it for some.

A friend of mine was killed in a car crash when she was seventeen, but what? Was I going to hate cars? Those two ton weapons in the wrong or intoxicated hands?

I guess I take heavy things too lightly, and light things too heavily.

Or maybe, just maybe, we all take things in the ways most comfortable to us all-?

[End ramble]

Sorry, for your loss but again the car crash analogy does not hold up in this discussion at all, for the reasons stated above. And I guess I've tried to explain that bit as best I can, so I don't feel the need to say it differently so you may understand.

I find it interesting that just saying 'I hate guns' causes such a response. Seen it with Americans before. It just demonstrates to me what cultural differences there are between us. Here replica toy guns are not generally seen as acceptable toys for kids. Guns are not seen as a solution to either tyranny or defence. I only ever talk about guns on the internet, the only people I know who own guns are on the internet.

For me,as I have said before, they are something unpleasant and occasionally necessary.

I do understand risk taking behaviour, btw, but see that as something different to revering weapons.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 4:01 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Guns are not seen as a solution to either tyranny or defence.

And yet, the founders of THIS country thought otherwise, and felt so strongly as to put the right to OWN a gun at # 2 of our Bill of Rights.

And tyrants seem to, for clear and obvious reasons, go for the guns 1st, before they completely take over and subjugate their people.

We, as a nation, opt not to follow that course.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, December 21, 2012 4:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Sorry, for your loss but again the car crash analogy does not hold up in this discussion at all, for the reasons stated above.

Hello,

Quite right. He'd have to skip cars and focus entirely on the 10,000+ people killed due to DUI each year, and then talk about whether or not he hates booze.

Because while booze may have recreational uses, it has no real practical use and its main impact on society seems to be in killing people.

But even that doesn't really matter, because there is no reason you should have to like any sort of weapon at all for any sort of purpose at all. Such an affinity is not required or requested.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, December 21, 2012 5:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quite right. He'd have to skip cars and focus entirely on the 10,000+ people killed due to DUI each year, and then talk about whether or not he hates booze.

I hate uranium. Sharks too. And oxidization.

I hate carnivores, and people that kill & eat animals.

I hate the bright sword for its sharpness, the arrow for its swiftness, and the warrior for his glory.

I hate folks that give birth to life they will never cherish.

In reality, closer to that last one.
But I really spend very little time hating anything for real, if I can help it. Even the poor twisted souls that lose their humanity in this hard world that has changed so much over the millennia that it is the same as it's ever been.

What's life without judgementalism?

A bit lighter?

I don't HATE a cold virus, I treat it, and not with ineffectual & hopeful methods, but what works, and it's usually not one single thing. So, hate guns all you want, hate mental illness, hate monetary greed, hate away.
Only love & compassion for your fellow persons & creatures on this planet will change anything- the rest is just warfare concealed, or not.

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Friday, December 21, 2012 5:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I do understand risk taking behaviour, btw, but see that as something different to revering weapons.

I own a nice Samurai sword; I do not revere it.
I reserve that particular feeling for my Wife & Son, and Mother Theresa & the Dalai Lama...

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Friday, December 21, 2012 9:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

I hate uranium. Sharks too. And oxidization.

I hate carnivores, and people that kill & eat animals.

I hate the bright sword for its sharpness, the arrow for its swiftness, and the warrior for his glory.

I hate folks that give birth to life they will never cherish.

In reality, closer to that last one.
But I really spend very little time hating anything for real, if I can help it. Even the poor twisted souls that lose their humanity in this hard world that has changed so much over the millennia that it is the same as it's ever been.

What's life without judgementalism?

A bit lighter?

I don't HATE a cold virus, I treat it, and not with ineffectual & hopeful methods, but what works, and it's usually not one single thing. So, hate guns all you want, hate mental illness, hate monetary greed, hate away.
Only love & compassion for your fellow persons & creatures on this planet will change anything- the rest is just warfare concealed, or not.

I don't actually think enough about guns to hate them, but I don't like them.

And I hope that has nothing to do with having compasssion for my fellow humans, which I try and sometimes fail.

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:53 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Geez Geezer, haven't you read all this before?

Difference between hammers, bikes, cars and any other object you may bring up in comparison is what they were made for.

A gun is designed to kill. I can't build a house with it, I can't ride to the shop, I can't do anything else with it but keep it as a weapon, to be used if necessary to tear into flesh.

Most of my guns, as noted earlier, are specifically designed to make small groups of holes in pieces of paper far away, or occasionally a Pronghorn antelope far away. In 55 years of shooting and hundreds of thousands of bullets fired, I've never shot anyone or shot at anyone. The one time I ever had to show a gun to anyone, he ceased trying to rob me, dropped his knife, and ran away, as I had requested. No one was hurt.

Pretty much everyone I shoot with, except the guys from the Marine Sniper School who come to our competitions, could tell you the same.

So the "Guns are just made to kill and have no other purpose" mantra doesn't really resonate with me, since I know it to be untrue.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:58 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

LAWN DARTS.

Okay, yes they were ridiculously dangerous and eventually banned, but I liked the bloody things!

-F

I have a set out in the garage, still in the original box, complete with target hoops.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 8:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
It's sort of like saying "No one should have hammers" because you hit your thumb once. Or not liking motorcycles because a friend hit a tree and was killed on one. It's easier to blame the thing than your lack of skill with a hammer, or your friend's foolish behavior on a bike. And since you don't own a hammer or a bike, it costs you nothing.

The constant effort to equate guns with just about everything else is a false equivalency. We've debated the same issues over and over again, and it just doesn't get through.

I disagree with Magons in that guns have two other purposes; to be collected and to use (like bows and arrows, as my husband and I have done) to compete for accuracy (even if only with oneself). But in the majority and for the vast majority of people, guns have only one purpose: to kill. Be it birds, deer or humans, that is the purpose for which guns were created, not the other two uses we have found for them.

It is perfectly all right to dislike guns; lots of people dislike motorcycles because of their inherent dangers. Disliking them doesn't mean one cannot be rational about them and does not mean anyone here WANTS to confiscate them. We'll never get past that either.

Yes, there are other weapons designed to kill. But they aren't USED to kill, except in rare occurrences. Not knives, knives were created for many other purposes than to kill, so let's not go there. The remainder of the weapons which were created to kill in days gone by are irrelevant; they are not a danger to others and are not used to kill on a regular basis. Guns are.

The sexual thing exists, as I've pointed out before. I just don't think it exists to the extent some others do, and wish we could take it out of the equation. There are many other aspects of guns to debate; maybe we could just agree that in some cases, guns attract people because of the power they represent, and power can have sexuality attached to it. Then let it go at that. Or not.

Quote:
I find it interesting that just saying 'I hate guns' causes such a response.

That's for sure. It says something, maybe a number of things, but I don't know how we discuss what it says because the minute someone says it, the other side comes back with "ah-HAH! You're unfit to have the conversation because you're biased". It's true tho'--look how many threads there are about guns ever since Sandy Hook, and look how pretty much the same arguments are being debated in ALL of them. And notice how anyone daring to say "I don't like guns" gets the IMMEDIATE response that "you want to take away all my guns". It's a sticking point I don't think we'll ever get beyond.

As to the Founding Fathers, I have no doubt whatsoever that they roll around in their graves every time the Second Amendment is used as a right to own guns. They intended it for something specific, to defend our weaker baby-nation from the tyranny of our much-stronger oppressors. I'm betting they figured once we were strong and had separated ourselves, guns wouldn't be an issue, any more than they were in any of the other individual countries they knew. I'm guessing that's why they put in "a well-regulated militia", to be clear that not every Tom, Dick and Harry should own multiple guns for the rest of our history and use that amendment as the justification.

Tyranny doesn't start with guns. It starts long before that, with laws, propaganda, machinations to create the "Other", and on and on. When those and other methods don't subdue the populace, THEN guns come into it. Something about violence being the last resort of a tyrant.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:53 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

As someone who enjoys watching Doomsday Preppers I can definitely say that preppers are becoming more and more mainstream, as in people don't think its as weird as they once did, getting something out there into the public eye usually makes it more acceptable, good or bad. I reckon people use the term "preppers" these days because it sounds more modern chic and it has fewer syllables.

I'm not a prepper myself, I think my dad would be if we had more money, prepping is an expensive endeavor really. I'm not too interested in it myself but I like watching the show because its interesting to watch others do it.

I agree with Niki that its good to find out facts, no matter where they may lead. I do however think that our media does put opinions into its delivery of facts far too much, I can make up my own mind about things thank you, just give me the info, I don't care about their opinions.

Its okay to not like guns. I think a person can dislike them without bossing others around about them, though Magons is probably not the bes t example of this since she is for no guns allowed for the Everyman. But Magons lives in Australia where most people agree with her, so no one in America needs to worry about Magons taking their firearms away.

I'm not all that interested in guns myself, I do like old fashioned guns because of the historical componant (I like old fashioned things of various kinds). I like other weapons like swords and knives much more than guns though.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:26 PM