Making a List, Checking it Twice by AnthonyT

America loves a winner!

This is a fucking outrage.

Plain and simple.

The media is ( and really has been ) the 4th branch of govt. Instead of keeping an eye on govt, it's keeping an eye on the citizens.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This is a fucking outrage.

Plain and simple.

OMG.
AU & I agree on something.

Yeah, that's all kinds of stupid & even illegal I conjure.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I don't know if it is illegal. I don't know what kinds of protections exist on matters of public record.

I always suspected the answer might be: Not enough.

Now I know.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:41 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Only very naive people would think they have any privacy in this world. They can track your daily movements with your phone or your car. They know where all your money is and who gets it. They know every website you ever visited. They can pull up every e-mail or text you ever sent or got. FOIA or your average database hacker can expose anyone and anything at any time. If you desire any measure of privacy you need to stay off the grid, but that's damn near impossible.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:21 AM

Lest one forget...
That whole promise to never kick in doors and seize arms fell by the wayside pretty quick during Katrina, did it not ?
And how exactly did they know who had them, hmmmm ?

Oh, and what about all the rest of those PROMISES, eh ?

Yanno, like the Law Enforcement officers who said they've never do it, yet travelled up to a thousand miles for that juicy overtime and hazard pay to go right on and do it.
Or those soldiers who said they'd never be party to it standing right there and helping it along.(1)

Just like the same kind of PROMISES we're hearing now.

But see, those PROMISES mean nothing to me, they come from a faction of society which ultimately has a negative reserve of credibility and trust, and real events have born out that skepticism of those promises is entirely justified.

Eric Peters points out another historical case of how that so-called 'resonable restriction' backed up by promises bites us on the ass everytime - when seatbelt use was mandated by law one of the promises that was made that never under any circumstances would not wearing a seatbelt ever be considered a primary violation, no way, no how, not ever.
Uh-huh, seat belt checkpoints anyone ?
You see what THAT promise was worth, eh ?
Worse that they used it as a revenue exploit and couldn't actually care less about safety.

And of course the old not-any-way-funny 'joke' about asking a Native American what a Government promise is worth...

This is, mind you, why I am so hardcore about having a Contract, and as a rule extremely brutal in regard to it's violation and/or enforcement, because it's a whole lot hard to weasel once it's in hardcopy and in my hand, and what with personal reputation you've no excuse cause you knew what you were getting into up front.

Our Founders, most of em, they knew these kind of promises were meaningless, and this is why they set down their own Contract, aka The Constitution - and were forced to add a Bill of Rights by Antifederalists who thought it insufficient, which it was, one need only read Federalist 46, and my excoriation of it here to note that mere promises are utterly insufficient.

Ergo: MY perspective is thus - if one wants to make deals with me, those deals include more than a nod and a wink, any change or alteration will be fully legislated into public law with explicit and harsh criminal penalty for abuse or misuse, and that is utterly non-negotiable.

-Frem
(1) PS, just so it's clear, I feel that every single troop involved in that should be crackin rocks in Leavenworth as a result, and that the 82nd Airborne should be disbanded and have their unit struck from the rolls in dishonor.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:25 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I would be proud to be on a list that warns criminals its not safe to do business at that location.

It's better than being on the other list.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:35 AM

Also, possibly relevant, concerning "lists" and Gov use of them.
I've received some information today as part of someone elses FOIA request which seems very disturbing and needs to be vetted properly first, but if the information on pages 61, 68 and 69 is in fact correct, the FBI was not only aware of another Government agency intending to assassinate Occupy "Leaders" via suppressed sniper fire, it was considering involvement in support of the idea.
PCJF has the raw in PDF and TXT format.
http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html

No further comment at this time.

-F

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Jezus Criste, ANOTHER gun thread?? Is there any chance we can discuss something else in the coming days/weeks/months? Or not...

Just my two cents' worth; I think it's wrong for anyone to make that information public; that doesn't mean I don't think the information should exist.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:13 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Jezus Criste, ANOTHER gun thread?? Is there any chance we can discuss something else in the coming days/weeks/months? Or not...

Just my two cents' worth; I think it's wrong for anyone to make that information public; that doesn't mean I don't think the information should exist.

We could discuss what Israel plans to do w/ Iran, come 2013...

"Well, the prime minister has also said it's not important when Iran gets a bomb or even decides when it wants to get a bomb; the important question is at what point could we no longer prevent Iran from getting a bomb. And we have a very good idea of when that point arrives.

We know it arrives sometime in the late spring, at the latest early summer. And at that point, we no longer prevent Iran to get the bomb, so our red line is just over the horizon. ..."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/op-ed-wars-and-rumors-of-war/article/251
6196#.UNtmi-Q0WSo

And as for posting names of registered gun owners, in the paper like that, it's beyond untenable. Treating honest, law abiding citizens in the same manner as those who are caught trying to buy sex, or as some sort of registered sex offenders is far beyond the proper function of a FREE press.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:39 AM

DALEK!

Seems as if the Freedom of Information act is a double edged sword.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:44 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Lets publish the homes, names and numbers of those people WITHOUT firearms.

Oooo, like everyone on the Brady Campaigns contribution list.

Heh.

Idiots.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Also, possibly relevant, concerning "lists" and Gov use of them.
I've received some information today as part of someone elses FOIA request which seems very disturbing and needs to be vetted properly first, but if the information on pages 61, 68 and 69 is in fact correct, the FBI was not only aware of another Government agency intending to assassinate Occupy "Leaders" via suppressed sniper fire, it was considering involvement in support of the idea.
PCJF has the raw in PDF and TXT format.
http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html

No further comment at this time.

-F

That's crazy, Frem! This could never...be...
true....

Oh.

Oh my...

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 12:22 PM

America loves a winner!

What next... listing registered Republicans ?
Those who drive foreign made cars ? Or what about people who don't recycle ?

Good grief.

The implications of selecting a segment of citizens, who have done absolutely nothing wrong but exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, for the sole purpose to publicly ostracized them, is Orwellian.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 2:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What next... listing registered Republicans ?
Those who drive foreign made cars ? Or what about people who don't recycle ?

Yes. We must out everyone for everything.
See, then when we realize we all have character flaws, we can all be more like brothers & sisters!
Or not.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured lists

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Wednesday, December 26, 2012 2:29 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Yes. We must out everyone for everything.
See, then when we realize we all have character flaws, we can all be more like brothers & sisters!
Or not.

Arkansas style ?

Umm... no thanks.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:29 AM

http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/maddy-pfeiffer-grand-jury-jail/66
64/

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Also, possibly relevant, concerning "lists" and Gov use of them.
I've received some information today as part of someone elses FOIA request which seems very disturbing and needs to be vetted properly first, but if the information on pages 61, 68 and 69 is in fact correct, the FBI was not only aware of another Government agency intending to assassinate Occupy "Leaders" via suppressed sniper fire, it was considering involvement in support of the idea.
PCJF has the raw in PDF and TXT format.
http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html

No further comment at this time.

Seems that's not all, diggin into this has revealed something else quite ugly, abuse of the grand jury as a mccarthyist star chamber.
http://socialistworker.org/2012/10/17/anti-anarchist-witch-hunt

Quote:
Furthering the government fishing expedition, the three activists received subpoenas requiring them to testify in front of a grand jury, where they were asked questions regarding their political opinions and the political circles and individuals they associate with. This is a clear case of political leanings being used as proof of criminality. As Plante wrote, "They are trying to investigate anarchists and persecute them for their beliefs. This is a fishing expedition. This is a witch-hunt."

Quote:
Duran, Plante and Olejnik have not been accused of any criminal wrongdoing, but they have been held in contempt and jailed after refusing to testify, because the government offered them immunity from prosecution--stripping them of their legal right to refuse to testify.

Describing her opposition to the government's fishing expedition, Plante noted that a Freedom of Information Act request revealed that that the grand jury was convened on March 2, 2012--two months before the actual protests.

Quote:
Pfeiffer will join two other young anarchists who are currently imprisoned for making the same principled stand, refusing to talk about their political activism and refusing to help the government identify leftists and protesters in the Northwest.

I don't think they have any idea whatsoever what kind of can of worms they might be opening here - the Anarchists originally refused to officially support Occupy due to concerns about their perserverence, poor tactical planning and terrible security, and have been conspicuously absent (barring those so-called "Anarchists" wearing police issue footwear, some of which have since been fully outed as provocateurs) because the bulk of them have figured out that conventional protesting these days is nothing more than painting a bullseye on your forehead to be kettled, abused, mocked and ignored - individuals make their own decisions, but as a whole they've stayed the hell out of it.

This here smacks of a complete setup, given the fact that the Grand Jury was convened BEFORE the supposed "crimes" took place, and most of those acts of vandalism in question have since been proven to be the work of undercover police functioning as agents provacateur, creating a phony pretext which cannot possibly be taken seriously due to the apparent foreknowledge involved here.
What makes me nervous is that they're effectively poking a very large, angry, hungry feline who decided they weren't worth the effort, in hopes of provoking a response they can use as an excuse.

I don't think they've thought that one through very well...

-Frem

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:55 AM

You think someone wants violence in the streets?

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:00 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What next... listing registered Republicans ?
Those who drive foreign made cars ?

With the Freedom of Information act those would not be hard to get at all. Welcome to open government.

Oh, Frem Grand Juries are often empanelled for a certain time period so if they are need they can be convened.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 2:39 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What next... listing registered Republicans ?
Those who drive foreign made cars ?

With the Freedom of Information act those would not be hard to get at all. Welcome to open government.

Again, this isn't govt publishing these names, is it ? This is the media, treating law abiding citizens, exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, to keep and bear arms, and treating them like sex offenders.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:15 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Again, this isn't govt publishing these names, is it ? This is the media, treating law abiding citizens, exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, to keep and bear arms, and treating them like sex offenders.

This media outlet got the information from local governments through Freedom of Information act requests. Plus as much as you may not like it, this is covered under freedom of the press.

Would it make a difference if someone would have done this on there private website?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:37 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Again, this isn't govt publishing these names, is it ? This is the media, treating law abiding citizens, exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, to keep and bear arms, and treating them like sex offenders.

This media outlet got the information from local governments through Freedom of Information act requests. Plus as much as you may not like it, this is covered under freedom of the press.

Would it make a difference if someone would have done this on there private website?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

The same difference it'd make if they'd not post sex offenders, DUI suspects or the like in the local news paper. They DO it to shame those on the list, and to deter others from engaging in such activity, at the risk of being publicly ostracized.

Seriously, how are you not getting this ?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 4:58 PM

DALEK!

I get it. That my dear Rappy is the power of free speech and freedom of the press. You forget that part of those freedoms is that people get to express their displeasure with other peoples choices.

Now the original point I was trying to make was that open government policies, like the Freedom of Information act are double edge swords. People like them when they get information they want, but hate them when their own information gets posted.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:40 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Now the original point I was trying to make was that open government policies, like the Freedom of Information act are double edge swords.

Hello,

Triple edged, actually, in the spirit of Vorlon philosophy.

If you don't trust information to be safe, you stop giving it away.

Which means the people who want to close the loophole of person-to-person sales just had a setback.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
People like them when they get information they want, but hate them when their own information gets posted.

There is a difference between info the all powerful government isn't interested in the public seeing, and that of private citizens.... but the difference is lost on some.
Whatever.

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Friday, January 4, 2013 6:22 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I get it. That my dear Rappy is the power of free speech and freedom of the press. You forget that part of those freedoms is that people get to express their displeasure with other peoples choices.

Then you're not getting it, despite what you claim.

And the paper's view seems to be, legally arming ones self is bad, when it's the public, but when it's the PRESS.... hell yeah we want guns!!

After outcry over map of gun permit holders, newspaper hires armed guards

Quote:

New York (CNN) -- The newspaper that published an online, interactive map of handgun permit holders in two suburban New York counties hired armed guards to protect its office after negative backlash from the map publication, according to a local police report.

The January 1 report from the Clarkstown police department in Rockland County confirms the presence of armed private security guards at the Journal News. The incident report stemmed from e-mail responses to the newspaper's online map.

The police statement says Caryn McBride, the paper's Rockland editor, reported "that she received an e-mail from an unknown subject who wrote that he wondered what (she) would get in her mail now."

"The e-mail was brief and did not contain any threats," the police report continues, adding that the officer who wrote it told McBride "the e-mail did not constitute an offense."

The report adds that a private company "is doing private security work on location at the Journal News ... (the company's) employees are armed and will be on site ... through at least January 2, 2013."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/02/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html

Now, this makes not a whole lot of sense. They receive a non threatening e-mail, which simply states that they wonder what the paper ( or editor) will receive in the mail now, after the posting of LEGAL gun owners addresses. So the paper hires armed guards ? How is that going to address anyone who sends them something through the mail ??

And the story says the armed security will be there through at least Jan 2, 2013 ? So they were there a week ? Maybe ? Are they still there now, after that date ?

Looks like lazy reporting going on here, or lazy relaying of information, on the paper's part.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, January 4, 2013 1:26 PM

America loves a winner!

Proper fucking bump.

Because, after almost 450 replies in the 'guns guns guns' thread, I find it hard to believe that NO ONE has anything to say about this lunacy of a double standard by " the free press ".

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 5, 2013 2:35 PM

America loves a winner!

Karma ...

Blogger publishes names, addresses of newspaper staff after gun-permit database

A blogger upset with a New York newspaper’s decision to publish an interactive map of local gun permit holders has returned the favor by posting the names and addresses of nearly every employee at the publication.

Blogger Christopher Fountain on For What It’s Worth published names, home address and email contact information for Journal News editor Cyndee Royle, publisher Janet Hasson and reporter Dwight Worley, who wrote an article on Sunday to accompany the map that led to widespread criticism aimed at the Lower Hudson Valley newspaper.

"Miss Royle’s married name is Lambert,” Fountain wrote. “She lives in White Plains and here is her Facebook page complete with pictures of her and her kids. Hello Sanctimony.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/27/blogger-publishes-names-address-n
ewspaper-staff-after-gun-permit-database/?test=latestnews#ixzz2GJW0gQCr

Too gorram funny!!!

Insert one of Niki's insufferably childish laughing emoticons -------> HERE

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 5, 2013 3:41 PM